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  #1  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:32 AM
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Garry Stanley Pulse Motor

Hi folks, I am just about ready to start building a true Garry Stanley pulse motor. I built one before that worked great, but I did not use the thin coils with a space in between the coil pair. Mine will be a little bit smaller than the one shown on his bike, although i read he changed the design to six magnets per rotor and 6 coil pairs making that 12 coils total and he said it worked better. Mine will have similar thin coils at 1/8" thick by 1-3/4" diameter with 1" hole since I'm using 1" diameter neo magnets. Center stator plate will be 3/8" thick hard wood and coils will sit on outside of this stator plate same as Garry's design was. I have read everything I could get my hands on regarding his comments and he said some very interesting things about his motor design that I was able to understand. Regardless of the seemingly abrupt end to his work being public, i feel his motor design is unique and worthy of further study.
Here are a few pics of his pulse motor and a diagram.



All comments greatly appreciated.
peace love light
Tyson

Edit: I'm doing my best to recover the images, etc. in this thread, by request of darediamond.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2010, 09:37 AM
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And here is an interesting quote from Garry.
Quote:
Hi Folks, This motor took a long time to make, but was from the design point, made in such a way that I would be able to try as many possible configurations in it as I thought possible at the time and so it has served as a very good test bed for a very long time for me. The very first thing about this is it uses both ends of the "coil" and does not waste one end as many motors do, this also brings in a factor of compression on the electro flux field between the magnets rather than the deflection and thus reduction of efficiency in a single rotor design. Further this causes the magnets by sheer proximity to have their flux fields extend into the coils and thus change the centre of the magnet pair also causing recompression on the coil flux field.
When the coil is powered the flux field of the magnets is no longer attracted to the opposite magnet and instantly with the aid of the building electro flux field pushing it, returns to its normal position and thus the flux field is moving away from the coil while the magnet is approaching. ( The centre of the magnet flux field moves from between the coils to between the coil and the magnet, to do this it is going out of the coil as the magnet approaches.) Add to this that the magnet is only 1mm away from the coil which is 2 mm and there is an air gap which while only 4.5 mm now has been up to 9mm between the coils and you can see that the magnet flux field is in fact travelling backwards in the coil for a long period of time, relatively speaking. Inductive Lenz is removed in this setup and power on Lenz is equally reduced by the fact that each magnet is permeating both coils which as we all now know causes counter current and while the counter current isn't adequate to totally remove power on Lenz, by reducing it, more power get to be converted to shaft output. Lenz in a motor is actually desirable in some respects, its direct effect on the motor is to, minus losses to windage and friction, output a power level that eventually matches the input power and stops the motor from drawing high amps and running away until it explodes from excess centrifugal force. By reducing the Lenz during the driving pulse we move the unloaded speed of the motor higher per volt and again we all know that higher speed from the same input voltage actually results in more horse power. but in this case there is not more current flowing for this higher speed but exactly the same current flowing as if the motor had full Lenz but only went a fraction of the speed. I'm not sure I have accurately described any of this but just look at the hidden actions and reactions and see how they make it better, even if you cant get OU from this you will sure get a lesson or 2 on motors and their internal workings and this cant help but better arm you in your pursuit of bigger and better things.

Garry Stanley
peace love light
Tyson
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:23 AM
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Your diode is pointing the wrong way

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Old 06-23-2010, 11:22 AM
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Hi folks, Hi Ren, those are not my pics of course since i have not started building yet and that is not my graphic schematic, however according to comments made by Garry, that is the correct diode orientation. Here is another quote from Garry and this quote is very very interesting and could help shed light on Don Smith's device #9, the interference type rotating generator. Quote:
Quote:
Hi Norman, Take a paper clip and 2 magnets and a piece of wood around 12 mm thick, use a magnet and measure the distance that the drawing pin is drawn to it from. Then place the 2 magnets on the wood so that they hold each other there, get thinner wood if you have weak magnets, and repeat the test. If I am correct that proximity changes the flux orbit toward the centre you should notice a difference in the distance that the magnet starts to pull the paper clip because in order to move the inner flux in the outer flux is pulled in as well and so the clip is closer before it is pulled to the magnet.
When something interrupts this pull to the centre the flux returns to its normal place or a relative point and this is flux moving through the coil back to the magnet, when in fact the magnet is approaching the coil, the flux is effectively moving far faster and in the opposite direction thus causing current in line with the input power which adds to it rather than subtracts from it if it were in the other direction.

Garry Stanley
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:23 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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His configuration is great for a "motorized" generator, which is undoubtedly what he's after.
Does he use air core coils? Otherwise the magnets would have a problem releasing the coil. I assume he was using ferrite magnets?
The circuit is screwy. If you use that circuit with neo's you'll blow your transistor. I'd be surprised if the collapse pulse wouldn't blow it too. Note: if you use a mosfet you'll want to have a path to ground for the base or it won't shut off.
Using both sides of the coil is an excellent idea. You can get a much higher flux density through the coil that way. This increases both torque and BEMF.
The diode across the transistor is for protection. Many MOSFETs and IGBTs have one built right into to them. It's called the "freewheeling diode".
This looks like an excellent project to dive into. I firmly believe that a motorized generator can be built and this could be a likely candidate for just that. I look forward to your test results.

Ted
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:03 PM
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Hi Ted, thanks for the reply. You would have to describe what you mean by motorized generator. It uses air-core coils one each side of a center stator plate with 2 rotors sandwiching the stator plate. I have built a model except without the air gap between coils and the flyback did not affect the transistor probably because it oscillates within the parallel series coil circuit and is less dangerous to the transistor. If you read one of the quotes posted you will see he postulated that a brief forward emf condition may result as the attraction power pulse is applied helping to increase efficiency. He was using neo magnets and so am I. Making coils right now, I'll need 12 total.
peace love light
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
You would have to describe what you mean by motorized generator.
Pardon my presumption. I figured since you're not going to get a whole lot of torque out of that motor that it was being used primarily for it's generative properties. The coil / magnet arrangement is ideal for a generator.
He's probably using that diode across the transistor then as a ground for generating current back towards the battery. That's also what must be neutralizing the pulse. I would imagine the direction of rotation is important too.
I like the concept. There's a lot of different ways to configure it too.

Ted
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi folks, Hi Ren, those are not my pics of course since i have not started building yet and that is not my graphic schematic, however according to comments made by Garry, that is the correct diode orientation. Here is another quote from Garry and this quote is very very interesting and could help shed light on Don Smith's device #9, the interference type rotating generator. Quote:

peace love light
Tyson
Hi Tyson,

Im aware that the schematic is not yours, and as Ted states the diode is implemented to serve a purpose, and is in the right orientation for protection of the switching devices.

Its just my opinion that it could be better served directing the inductive kick elsewhere....


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Old 06-23-2010, 11:51 PM
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Hi Ren, thanks for the reply. I just posted that to show what he was doing i assume. My circuit will be somewhat different and will be collecting flyback Bedini style as I did in the previous model of Garry's motor. In my previous motor the flyback was somewhat subdued maybe cause the parallel series circuit and/or because air-core. I cut the stator plate and end plates, it is actually high density fiberboard.
peace love light
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:21 AM
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Hi Ted, thanks for reply. Yes it's a good generator also as the axial windmill generator shows. Though with the geometry described, possible lentz aiding occurs, we will see. As i said, i did build a motor like this, just without the exact geometry and coil placements and it had a lot of shaft power. That motor shown on his bike pulled him (around 250 pounds), mountain bike, 8-12volt lead acid batts. and motor to 12.5 mph. for around 100 watts. So this pulse motor design does not look weak to me, what do you think. Making more coils now.
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:55 AM
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Hi folks, here is a cad pic of the design I'm building. The end plates shown are 7" wide by 8" high and the dual rotors are 7" diameter with 6 neo magnet stacks per rotor. I'll have a pic soon of the structure put together.

peace love light
Tyson
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi Ren, thanks for the reply. I just posted that to show what he was doing i assume. My circuit will be somewhat different and will be collecting flyback Bedini style as I did in the previous model of Garry's motor. In my previous motor the flyback was somewhat subdued maybe cause the parallel series circuit and/or because air-core. I cut the stator plate and end plates, it is actually high density fiberboard.
peace love light
Tyson
You actually won't get the torque out of the motor if you do and there are some dangers involved in collecting the fly back from a 96 volt system (if your using that). Take into account you have 12 coils and say 200 turns. Start out with 96 volt your gonna get somewhere in the range of 300 to 400 volts on the step up. (Thats not exact math).
If you discharge that back to your batteries they won't be long for running. Especially the first one it hits.

The reason he points the diode back is a very good one. If say you fire the coils to push the magnet away in one direction. Then you reload the coil with the fly back in reverse direction, to attract the next set of magnets at the same time your stepping the voltage up to a point it probably has no "umph" and redepositing the energy into the positive side of the battery for recollection.

I think its rather novel approach, and I love how simple it is. I am going to give it a test and see on one of mine. I don't think I have ever tried that configuration.

Matt

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Old 06-24-2010, 08:48 PM
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Hi Matt, thanks for the reply. As far as the diode, testing will see what happens and I can assure you there is plenty of torque in these motors. The main reason I am building another one of these is because the first model of the motor ran awesome and since i was experimenting with Don Smith's device #9, I see possible similarities here. In both, we have 2 magnets extending there fields through coils to connect with each other at a bloch wall in space and in both we are interrupting this connection. In the case of Garry's pulse motor, it is claimed that with the help of the space between the coils, when coil attraction pulse is applied, the neo magnet bloch wall is interrupted and the coil flux moves faster in opposite direction to magnet movement. There is a theme going on here between these 2 devices. Also, the flyback output with the parallel/series wiring is not at the level you think, it is far less than normal Bedini type setups, though with complicated switching could be. I am drilling holes in stator and end plates today and making more coils.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:27 PM
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I'll be interested to see how much torque can be generated by an air core coil. Torque is a direct result of flux density (B field, magnetic current flow...). I'm wondering how much of a conduit those air cores will actually make for current flow between the magnets, or will the flow go straight into the coil? My guess would be into the coil, as air has very low permeability, which gets worse exponentially with distance.
Nevertheless, I hope it works better than expectations and we all learn something from it. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

Ted
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:48 AM
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Hi Ted, thanks for reply. It's the dual rotor magnets facing each other in attraction that does the trick. As Garry pointed out, the field is compressed there, so no deflection occurs and the flux is dense that way. Believe me Ted, I tried using cores with my old motor and it ran worse and drew more current as a result, so i went back to air core and it flew and used less current doing so and if i grabbed the shaft it burned my hand in short time. Maybe using ferromagnetic cores might be ok if used in something like the Kawai motor, but in a typical motor it seems to detract. I would recommend building a small pulse motor like Garry's design with the dual rotors and thin air-cores and see for yourself, what is what. I'll post a pic later of my progress on my motor. I have the structure almost done, working on winding the thin coils.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:04 AM
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Hi folks, I decided to make the coils as thick as the center stator plate and mount them inside the plate so they are flush, this way I'll get the rotor magnets much closer together and should in my view be able to get the same flux aiding effect if it should manifest and much greater torque. Here is a pic of the setup so far. Will be boring stator holes tomorrow and cutting out rotors.
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5...anleytype1.jpg
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi Ted, thanks for reply. It's the dual rotor magnets facing each other in attraction that does the trick. As Garry pointed out, the field is compressed there, so no deflection occurs and the flux is dense that way. Believe me Ted, I tried using cores with my old motor and it ran worse and drew more current as a result, so i went back to air core and it flew and used less current doing so and if i grabbed the shaft it burned my hand in short time. Maybe using ferromagnetic cores might be ok if used in something like the Kawai motor, but in a typical motor it seems to detract. I would recommend building a small pulse motor like Garry's design with the dual rotors and thin air-cores and see for yourself, what is what. I'll post a pic later of my progress on my motor. I have the structure almost done, working on winding the thin coils.
peace love light
Tyson
Nice work so far on your motor.
I'll take your word on the torque. After all, you built one and tested it and I'm just talking out of my ass.
This air core concept is intriguing. I'd like to do some experiments when I get some time.

Ted
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:37 AM
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Hi Ted, thanks for compliments. Also I should add that if none of the flux aiding ideas pan out, then this motor still has no deflection due to compressed magnet field and is using both poles of the coil directly off the face, no coil plastic bobbins or anything, so the magnets can get nice and close to the coils.
I bored the stator holes today and cut out the rotors with my router, will post pic later of progress, have 4 more coils to wind.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:05 AM
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Hi folks, here is a pic showing the progress of the motor. Stator holes are bored and an air-core coil is shown next to one of the rotors that has yet to have holes for magnets drilled.
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5...anleytype2.jpg
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:59 AM
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Hi folks, I thought this other quote from Garry Stanley makes it much clearer as to some of his thoughts about his pulse motor.
Quote:
I try to avoid metal of any sort in my motors so I haven't tried much, when I
did try cores in this, there was not enough power from the coils to move the
rotor away from the pull of the magnets to the cores. The non Lenz part of this is non induction which means there isn't a pre-existing counter voltage when the power is turned on for the pulse and this means only the instant induction is there to flow against the input pulse, the anti Lenz part of it is that the thin coils mean the magnets are in a proximity to each other that allows them to pull together, this moves the centre of the flux of each magnet in, through the coil and reduces external flux fields on the
outside of the rotor, effectively causing compression around the coil without having induced a counter force in the coil.
At the moment of applied power the grip between the magnets is interrupted by the coils and this causes the flux to move away from between the coils, back to its natural state in each magnet, this appears to the coil the same as if the magnet was actually moving away from it not toward it and so for a brief instant the coil creates power in the same direction as the input power and adds to the input rather than subtracts from it as a normal motor would do. This is the anti Lenz part of the cycle not the removal of induced current that everyone has understood and renamed non Lenz.
Simple science, action / reaction, once you understand how the components
function its easy enough to see where the extra power comes from.

Garry Stanley
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:07 AM
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Hi folks, and this was a reply to Garry that I think is useful information.
Quote:
Hi Garry,
You have a very interesting idea for drawing the flux of a magnet in a certain
direction. I will attempt to replicate. I am thinking the power level input to
the coils might need to be fine tuned in order to match the power level of the
magnets used. Use too much power and some is wasted. Use too little and the flux is not all pulled in. Also pulse duration may play a role. Very good work indeed!
Best regards,

Jim
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:48 AM
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Hi folks, this is a quote from a guy that replicated Garry's motor and used a scope to view the pulse waveform and is self explanatory.
Quote:
Hi Stefan, George and all,
1 day ago I would have agreed with both of you totally.
Now I say, Build a motor, parallel the voltages, look
at what happens across the coil when you pulse it.
THE VOLTAGE ADDS TO THE POWER SUPPLY! It does NOT buck the supply ever! Damnedest thing I have ever seen. There is NO LENZ. Power
supply at ZERO, pure spin down, no drag even when pulsing the coils
into the supply still on but at zero volts. Yah, I know, short the
leads and it probably will spin down faster but then it is operating
in the PURE generator mode and not the MOTOR mode. Totally different
when in the motor mode as voltages are Additive. I have built lots of
pulse motors and this is NOT what I expected or theorized. The little
sucker will run on somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2 VDC on the coils! On 1.5 VDC, it runs several hundred RPM. I have to glue the magnets down before I can really rev it up as they are just held to the wheel with their own magnetic field. Got a little bug in the trigger circuitry,(double pulse) got to rewind the trigger coil, but it still runs like a champ.
Those coils are 100T #24, 1.5" X 1/4" ring air wound coils. The coils on the left and right are the motor coils. The coil on the back is the "sense/trigger" coil. It triggers both pairs of coils through a power fet via a op-amp. So you get a power pulse each 90 degrees. The voltage generated ADDS to the power supply voltage, that is NOT what I theorized or expected but you can see the anti-lentz voltage riding on TOP of the power supply voltage if you put a scope right across the coil. This thing is crude to the point of tears.
The coils are 1/8" from the 1.5" N38 Neo magnets as I didn't want to mess around with a magnet knocking a coil down if it flew off the wheel as the magnets are just held on by their own fields! Do not try to theorize this motor, you have to build it to understand it. And I will say I probably had 50-60 pages of doodles and theories and magnetic field drawings and schematics that all said it did not work before I built it. I finally built it out of sheer exasperation because Garry was so darn sure it worked the way it did and I .....wanted to prove him wrong....sort of my nature. My next version will be a heck of a lot prettier and a heck of a lot closer in tolerances. I am not going to do a web page about this as it is not my motor or my idea, I'll leave that to Gary. It all boils down now, if you don't believe it will work, you
probably won't build one. If you don't believe it will work and build one, you won't believe what your instruments are telling you and if you do believe it will work and build one you will look at your scope, etc and say "Holy @#@#$@#$" What am I missing here. Good luck Gary.
I'm about done posting about this, it works, there is a lot of things
more that can be done, Garry, its your baby, run with it.

Ben K4ZEP
Making good progress on my motor. Bored rotor magnet holes and I am mounting coils in stator plate. Will post pic later today. Anyone have any thoughts about these quotes I've posted. It makes me think a solid state air-core with 2 large neo magnets at each end in attraction and pulsing in an attraction manner, since this forward emf aiding idea has been experimentally proven it would seem, might yield for starters a much more energetic collapsing field due to the neo magnets aiding our input. Let me hear your thoughts.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:15 PM
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Hi Tyson,

I've been watching this thread with interest and it's interesting to see the post from Ben there and his amazement at how it works. Unfortunately for myself, I won't be able to do anything with this for a while as my lab work has been put on hiatus for next year or so. But I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your results.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:09 AM
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Hi Shamus, thanks for your reply. Yes, Bens results sure sound interesting. Here is a pic of the progress of my motor.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4...nleytype3y.jpg
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Tyson
edit: any ideas why my pics are not showing up, thanks.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:35 PM
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Hi Tyson,

It is very good you started Garry's pulse motor, hopefully now you will be in a position to be able to perform Prony brake measurements to evaulate COP.
If not, maybe you could drive a generator of known efficiency with the pulse motor and see the results. Somehow you surely want to evaluate COP, don't you. ( Prony brake - Heretical Builders )

Could you tell what is the distance (the gap) between any two facing rotor magnets? Also, will you have two air core coils positioned next to each other or only one as Ben had?

Garry had 12 magnet pairs, you have 6, why did you choose 6 pairs? I think the more magnets and coils are involved, the higher the torque will be. He had about 10mm gap between any two facing rotor magnets and the two flat coils were sandwiched in between. His coils were 1mH flat air core coils, about 4mm thickness each, about 4 Ohm DC resistance for each.

Thanks, Gyula
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:35 PM
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Hi gyula, thanks for reply. I am using 1 coil in between magnets, for 6 total. The stator plate is 3/8" thick so distance between rotor magnets will be a little more than 3/8". Garry switched to using 6 magnets per rotor and 6 coil pairs, he just never removed the unused ones. I built it this size due to lack of materials. A prony brake test would be good to test COP, though in reality I enjoy building these things and it is not priority, I have not seen one prony brake test in all the thousands of posts at Peter's attraction motor thread, so it seems nobody cares anyway.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:43 PM
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hi

Hi guys, Gyula dropped me a line and told me about this forum so if you have questions ill do my best to answer them.

Garry
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:50 PM
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Hi Garry, thanks for stopping in, are you Garry Stanley. What do you think of my build so far and will it work the same with the single coils, meaning will it possibly manifest the forward emf aiding effect. If you are G. Stanley, how has your experiments been going, whats new.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:19 PM
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Help!

I have been trying to find any place that has accurate information on this project. Like....kind of magnets, size. Dimensions on coils and kinds of wire. From the pictures it is kind of hard to see exactly how it is put together. I would certainly like to replicate this, and will, but the more information I have, the more accurate the replication will be.

Garry, do you still have a web site that gives that info? Frm what I have read there was also a yahoo group building replications. Is the info there? Point me in any direction except off a cliff and I will go!
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:01 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Hi Turion, I posted a cad pic that shows how Garry built his motor, though I'm not certain 2 coils back to back is mandatory. What i think based on what Garry said and others is that it's the dual rotor with unlike magnets attracting and stretching there fields through an air core and when pulsed the magnets flux field moves briefly in a direction away from coil creating an aiding emf and other possible beneficial effects, including using both poles of coil. Other posts here show coil parameters he used.
I am reinforcing my coils with superglue in the stator plate right now, so they stay rigid and putting neo magnets in rotors.
peace love light
Tyson
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