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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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Old 05-31-2010, 11:14 AM
dj_schalk dj_schalk is offline
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Gravity-Electric Generator (possible-Theory)

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using gravity on water turning water wheels to alternater to make and electrical current but many water wheels and also many built into pipeing using some to power the water pump to restart cycle while using the rest of the output into a battery bank or into the house if made into a usable system to lower monthy cost possible build in a basment or stacked over land or underground perhaps idk please check the design out and let me know what you think ^.^ or if this could even be possible.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:33 AM
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sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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I have problem downloading the image. Can you convert it to png and reupload it ?
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:40 AM
dj_schalk dj_schalk is offline
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I have problem downloading the image. Can you convert it to png and reupload it ?
here it is in png format.


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Old 06-01-2010, 07:21 AM
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Harvey Harvey is offline
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Hi Dj,

What you have described is already in use here:

Pumped-storage hydroelectricity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a relatively simple procedure - the pumps are run at a time when electricity is very cheap in the middle of the night and then the generators are run at a time (usually around noon) when the electricity is expensive. This is a business and it is profitable. But the most important aspect of it is that the extra power it produces is available to supply the peak demands that occur during the middle of the day when all the air conditioners and factory machines are running thus helping to prevent blackouts and brownouts.

But from a self running perspective, the only way that will happen is if some natural event like rain helps you out.

One young girl came up with an idea that I thought was pretty good. Her idea was a way to filter out muddy water to make it suitable for animals to drink. In her concept, she envisaged large pipes filled with wick material that would suck the water up out of the mud hole and carry it up to a higher level. But when this would happen, it would leave all the sediment behind because the capillary action works at a molecular level. I didn't experiment with it, but I would think that there may be a way to have a wick like a candy cane shape and with the proper elevations get it to drip into a slightly higher level. Perhaps a whole bunch of those could feed higher and higher containers until a good height is reached. Each one cannot be too much higher than the one before it and the short end has to have something to make the water drip out when it reaches it - like a special wetting surface that makes the water spread out fast so it builds up on the end and drops out like a leaking faucet.

Also, if all the different containers were sealed and transparent, then the sun would help lift the water by distillation.

So the return flow may be a small amount for a somewhat large system, but I could see how these two things could aid to make it self run.

But just adding more wheels does not give more power. The water at a given height has a finite amount of energy in the form of gravitational potential energy. Once that energy is spent, no more can be extracted. In fact, the extra wheels will actually result in a loss of energy because they add more bearings and friction and allow more time for water to evaporate.
Sometimes the matter cannot be avoided though. Like on a river with no dam. The drop to the lake below may be say 100 feet over a mile away, so the potential energy is there - but to use it, you have to put a miles worth of wheels along the way. I suppose that is better than cutting a channel at lake level all the way to the head waters so you can put one wheel and get all that big force from the 100 foot drop in one place. So, it is either a single 100 unit wheel or 100 single unit wheels, it is still 100 units either way.

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Old 06-01-2010, 08:07 AM
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sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Thanks for the reupload. I see the plant and I don't think it would be easy too. also see:
Directory:Markovic SP River Pump - PESWiki

Someone here mentioned that flowing river may have more energy running a generator than a dam.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:56 PM
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tjnlsn255 tjnlsn255 is offline
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Smile

How about putting a tesla turbine inline with the cold water source for the whole house after the pressure tank....... every time you flush the toilet or run the water the turbine would spin a generator and charge up a battery.....

It is not self running but it would capture some energy every time you run water in your house......

Just a thought.....

Hopes and Dreams....

Tj
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
Thanks for the reupload. I see the plant and I don't think it would be easy too. also see:
Directory:Markovic SP River Pump - PESWiki

Someone here mentioned that flowing river may have more energy running a generator than a dam.
Given the same 'Head' a single turbine at the dam will have fewer losses. But it may not be practical to dam up a river such that the bottom of the dam is the same elevation as the sea it dumps in to. So in this case, multiple dams are employed. But there is also a loss of land associated with the dam. In nature, beaver dams are temporary things that benefit the land which is reclaimed later. But in technology, our dams are long term damaging devices.

So the river water generators may not be as efficient as a total, but they may be much better for the environment and more cost effective to put in place. In both cases, the dam and the river flow generators, energy is stolen from the water. So where a natural stream will have force to move rocks and stir up the river to break apart minerals, that energy is given to mankind to run their computers instead. So down stream, the water is spent and the life of the river is diminished. Slow water becomes stagnate and polluted.

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Old 06-02-2010, 01:47 AM
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Harvey Harvey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjnlsn255 View Post
How about putting a tesla turbine inline with the cold water source for the whole house after the pressure tank....... every time you flush the toilet or run the water the turbine would spin a generator and charge up a battery.....

It is not self running but it would capture some energy every time you run water in your house......

Just a thought.....

Hopes and Dreams....

Tj
I did ask MrFixitRick, who has done a lot of experimentation with his water driven Tesla Turbine,
about the energy transfer and if he thought it could be put to good use just as you have said here. His response was that when he calculated the daily water flow of an average household, the amount of energy that could be extracted from his turbine would amount to less than that of some small batteries like for a remote control or something. I don't recall the exact values, but it was much smaller than I expected. I think this is because we cannot take all of the pressure away because it is needed for things like showers etc. And the outlet pressure of the turbine is very low even though the flow is good.

It would be an interesting experiment to make one and put a shower head after it and see what happens
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:53 AM
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sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
So the river water generators may not be as efficient as a total, but they may be much better for the environment and more cost effective to put in place. In both cases, the dam and the river flow generators, energy is stolen from the water. So where a natural stream will have force to move rocks and stir up the river to break apart minerals, that energy is given to mankind to run their computers instead. So down stream, the water is spent and the life of the river is diminished. Slow water becomes stagnate and polluted.
That is unfortunate ...

I wish I remember what thread here that describe a case where putting a generator at river flow have better efficiency than a dam which raised water in near location. Something to do with a student trying to use the knowledge of his professor.

Maybe this can also help, explaining slow water generator:
Sepp Hasslberger: Vortex Induced Vibrations to generate energy from river flow

and more environment friendly turbine:
Sepp Hasslberger: Water Vortex Drives Power Plant
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