Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #151  
Old 12-26-2010, 01:22 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
Your idea of how an electron flows through a conductor is very detailed, Im trying visualize how they move and keep it simple at first, I believe we live in a sea of electrons (either)that are projected into our atmosphere from the universe, we could get into their interactions but leave it there for a moment.

What I'm trying to visualize is how they move inside an air cored solenoid.
I visualize a magnetic field line as nsnsnsns each ns represents an electron with individual poles set in motion by the solenoids north and south poles, one field moving north one field moving south.

As a field moves, as with current there are free electrons circling the field trying to enter it (Van Allen belts). Trying to find order out of chaos sound familiar.

When these fields are split and entered into a conductor we have electricity, direction determines polarity.
as to how they move through a conductor I think its the lattice structure of the conductor that allows the electricity to move, some structures are more conducive to their spiraling pattern than others ie silver,copper.

but outside the conductor they are free and chaotic seeking order. when a solenoid is fired up, it creates an ordered moving field, basically a sink that draws electrons to it, orders them and sets them in motion.
once they are ordered and set in motion they can be split and move through a conductor, because of their angular momentum, before they are ordered and set in motion you have static electricity.

when a solenoid is disconnected the electrons scramble around seeking order and because of their angular momentum are able to enter and move through a conductor, but some dont make it and become chaotic again that is where loss comes in, if we could capture all the electrons we will have overunity.

A solenoid could be used to pump electrons but it must be pulsed and when the field is off is when the electrons can be captured, when the field is on they will always move in relation to the field.

The conductors in a generator only collect electrons when the field is off (the space in between the north and south magnets) the generator does it mechanically but it could be done with an air cored solenoid.

I say air cored actually there needs to be a material with the right structured lattice that will allow the electrons to continue their movement and be collected inside the solenoid, but there will still be loss because of the electrons that are outside, they will dissipate until the field is turned back on.

I don't think once in a conductor they can flip their poles, if they could we wouldn't have ac current.

I know there are electrons that are interacting with matter, but I believe that electricity is free electrons, we live in a sea of chaotic electrons, they are the alpha particle that everything is made of.

I once worked with a wise old man that said if you don't use your head, you might as well have two butts. Well my butt hurts so I'll quit for now .
__________________
 
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #152  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:11 AM
Loadstone Loadstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 66
"You have been wondering why alternating currents can run so far away from their generators. One reason is between every time the currents start and stop there is no pressure in the wire so the magnets from the air run in the wire and when the run starts there already are magnets in the wire which do not have to come from the generator, so the power line itself is a small generator which assists the big generator to furnish the magnets for the currents to run with."

"The breaking away from the iron core recharged the U shape magnet, then it became normal again and ready for the next start. During the recharging the new supply of magnets came from the air or the earth's magnetic field. "

"The reason I call the results of North and South Pole magnet's functions magnetic currents and not electric currents or electricity is the electricity is connected too much with those non-existing electrons. If it had been called magneticity then I would accept it. Magneticity would indicate that it has a magnetic base and so it would be all right.
As I said in the beginning, the North and South Pole magnets they are the cosmic force. They hold together this earth and everything on it." Ed.L
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 12-27-2010, 09:19 AM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
I thought I would include a drawing:

Zoom Image

Using this image and referring to the blue (center) fcc image on this web site: Primary Metallic Crystalline Structures we can begin to get a better understanding of how Copper has free electrons moving about in the solid structure.

A single cube of atoms would be made up of 14 atoms, 8 corners and 6 faces. Each face only requires 2 electrons to bind the five atoms as shown above. Also, anytime an electron enters the orbit of a corner atom, it satisfies the valence need for 3 faces in this isolated 14 atom cube. Thus, this cube only requires 12 electrons (6 faces x 2 electrons). So we gain two free electrons from a single isolated 14 atom cube.

Referring to the link above, we discover that each 'cube' is really representative of only 4 atoms called a unit cell. This is because the atoms on the corners and the atoms on the faces are shared with neighboring unit cells. This means that when an electron enters the orbit of a corner atom it is really being shared by 8 unit cells simultaneously. So, we can view each corner atom as being 1/8 of an atom. Likewise, every face shares its atom with an adjoining face. So each face of the unit cell is considered to be 1/2 of an atom. There are six faces on the unit cell making 3 atoms (6 x 1/2) and there are eight corners making 1 atom (8 x 1/8) so all together a unit cell is 3 + 1 = 4 atoms. So for any embedded unit cell surrounded by other unit cells, there are a total of 12 electrons working at holding it centered in the lattice (two for each unit cell face) but there are 26 other unit cells involved in the bond. This is because any embedded unit cell is at the center of a 3 x 3 x 3 matrix and 3 = 27. So the unit cells that are sharing adjoining faces are bonded by the centered face atom and its diagonal dual electron orbits while the unit cells that are joined on the corners are bonded by the shared corner atom and the 12 electrons orbiting it. Why 12? There are 3 planes that intersect the corner atom. On each plane there are 4 faces that intersect at the corner atom, therefore it has 12 faces using that corner atom as an anchor and each sharing one of its face electrons with that corner atom. This type of covalent bonding is known as metallic bonding and is dependent on the electrons being very mobile within the material and the energy levels to be just right so the outer electron will leave the orbit of one atom and enter the orbit of the next. We can see that when an electron is exactly midpoint between two cation nuclei (atoms missing an electron) there is little to persuade it to change orbit from an electrical perspective. But from an inertial perspective, or a magnetic perspective it may have good reasons to leave orbit and move on to the next atom. If we have reduced 14 atoms down to 4 simply due to the way they are shared in the lattice, what will be the quantity of unit cell electrons due to that same sharing? Each electron on a face is divided between the two adjoining faces so with respects to the unit cell it is halve an electron. This would indicate a need for 6 electrons for every 4 atoms, surely that can't be correct.

Rotate the image above 45 so that the electron path is viewed as a horizontal sine wave. When the electron reaches the end of the material it either has to loop around the last atom or fly off into the vacuum or atmosphere. Reasonably, it would wrap around as shown providing the inversion sine in the opposite direction. It can be seen from this, that a long line of atoms can all share a single electron weaving back and forth along the path. Several electrons can play follow the leader along that same path. The minimum quantity would be set by the forces in play and how well the atoms stay in place when the valence electron is missing. So there are time frames and energy levels that play a part in that. Also, in the above calculations we have 12 different electrons anchoring the corner atoms (at different times of course) - but this may not be needed. Anchoring two corners from one unit cell and the other two corners from the adjoining unit cell may be sufficient in most of the lattice where the face atom stitches the unit cells together.

How would you determine how many electrons there are in a gram of pure copper? How many atoms would there be? How big would each unit cell be? Given the fcc lattice structure, is there a preferred orientation of the lattice to promote electron movement from end to end in a a wire? How does the lattice become affected by bending the material or adding impurities? What part does magnetism play in the lattice organization?

Many of these questions have already been researched and answered by science. But there are still many unknowns. There is a lot of empty space inside the atom and Paul Dirac seemed to think this vacuum was filled with infinite negative energy (Dirac sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Could he be right? If so, how do we tap it? What is the barrier that divides that sea from our reality?

__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
I think the copper's atomic structure is conducive to the angular momentum of the electron, but not perfect, this causes resistance.
Maybe everyone knows this but me but I think a sine wave is just a one dimensional view of the electrons angular momentum.
The clues to the natural angular momentum of the electron are all around us expressed in nature as the golden mean.

Most superconductors if not all, are resistive to a magnetic field, this makes superconductors an unlikely candidate for the application.
I was researching carbon nanotubes - maybe?

I was wondering if you built a solenoid using the Fibonacci system would it resonate.

Another question how can you find the resonate frequency when your capacitance is zero.

Can you build a solenoid in reverse, what I mean to say is I want my coil to resonate at 528 hz.

Thanx
got to go to work
later David
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
We have to work with the electrons natural direction and angular momentum not against it, guide it,collect it.

gota go

the reason I use the term electron is because its the standard that everyone refers too, the term particle seems to bring to mind matter, I know Ed wasnt comfortable with the term.
__________________
 

Last edited by Dave45; 12-27-2010 at 01:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 12-27-2010, 09:25 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Hi Dave,

The turns in a solenoid have capacitance between the windings. Also, any surface that can take on a charge acts as a capacitor. This is true of the wire's surface also - so even a straight piece of wire has capacitance; the capacity to store charge however small it may be.

This site claims that the Rodin Coil is based on the Fibonacci sequence:
Rodin Coil is based on Fibonacci | hydrogen2oxygen

This fellow demonstrates a resonant effect whereby the the magnetic sphere continues to spin after the power is removed for about a minute and twenty seconds due to what he claims is a magnetic resonant interaction that remains coupled up to 10 feet away:
YouTube - jackscholze's Channel

Also, there was a fellow by the name of Robert Brooks that demonstrated what appeared to be over 40W of excess power from his dual Rodin coil configuration:
YouTube - 2x Rodin Coil load test 2 of 2 by Rob "sstubby"
(I have the schematics to this if anyone is interested)

So yes, there may be something to the resonance of particular patterns.

__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 12-29-2010, 12:44 AM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
+++++++++sn^> field line
Npole-------solenoid-------Spole
<^sn---------- field line

^ denotes electron axis rotation and direction of angular momentum
<> denotes direction of travel

I brought this back and updated it, if water spirals down a drain clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere, then the angular momentum of the magnetic field lines are opposite and cannot occupie the same path, they must run side by side attracting each other but not intertwineing.
Dave
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 12-29-2010, 12:54 AM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
This makes it possible to split the field, if the fields intertwined as some theory's are predicting it would be almost impossible to seperate.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 12-29-2010, 03:19 AM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
528 Hertz Resonant Coil

Hi Guys,

To derive the desired coil parameters for resonance at 528 Hz we would use a formula like:

f = 1 / 2π√LC

Which states: Frequency (f) = one over two times pi times the square root of Inductance (L) times Capacitance (C) where the frequency is in Hertz, the Inductance is in Henries and the Capacitance is in Farads.

This is the same as saying 1 = f2π(√LC) so we can move these things around without changing the results:

(√LC) = 1 / f2π

If the squareroot of L * C = 1 / f2π, then L * C must equal (1/(f2π)):

LC = (1/(f2π))

So plugging in 528 Hz for f we get:
LC = (1/528*2*3.14159)
Or, LC = 9.086 x 10 ^ -8

Now this is L times C so your next step is to know C. As your coil and capacitor come into resonance the impedance of the two combined will tend toward zero ohms. This means that the current in the circuit will only be limited by the wire resistance of your coil and that is important to know. Let us say that your design has a maximum of 1A and you are using 12V across your resonant circuit. The means you will need an 21 AWG or larger to handle the current. 20 AWG is more common and it has a resistance of 0.0102 Ohms per foot. This means you'll need a coil that uses about 1177 feet of wire which we will call wirefeet (W) to keep the current below the design limit. So then we will have to adjust our radius to length ratios to match the required inductance. Of course there must be some size constraints, we don't want a single winding with an 1177 foot circumference because that would have a 187 foot radius Also, the single layer formula we will be using to determine our coil size presupposes that the the diameter of the coil divided by the length of the coil is around 0.25 or less. So there is a maximum ratio for the formula to be accurate. Knowing our range of possible inductance values will help us find a compatible stock capacitance. Our 20 AWG wire is 0.032 inches in diameter and we will call this wire thickness (T), so we can get about 375 turns per foot. A one foot diameter coil one foot long would use our wire just about right, but it wouldn't satisfy the desired 4:1 length to diameter ratio. But this is easy enough to figure: Let the length (len) of our coil in inches equal the the number of turns (N) times the wire thickness (T = 0.032):

len = N * T
N = (W * 12) / (2πr)
2r = len / 4 [Because this is our maximum desired 4:1 ratio]

So by substitution for len:
2r = N * T / 4

and by substitution for N:
2r = (((W * 12) * T) / (2πr)) / 4

Dividing by r on the right is the same as multiplying it on the left:
2r = (((W * 12) * T) / (2π)) / 4

Dividing by one number (2π) and then another (4) is the same as dividing by the product of the last two numbers:

2r = (((W * 12) * T) / (2π*4)
simplifying and removing the redundant inner parenthesis:
2r = ((W * 12 * T) / (8π)

Solving for T = 0.032 we get T * 12 = 0.384
2r = (W * 0.384 / (8π)

Solving for W = 1177 and 8π:
2r = (451.97 / (25.13)

Therefore if r = √((W * 12 * T) / (8π2)) by moving the square and the 2 to the right side, solving:
r = √(451.97 / (25.13 * 2))
r = 3, len = 24 and N = 749

Since the coil diameter = 2r, we see that d / len = .25 giving us the desired 4:1 length:diameter ratio.

So our minimum desired length is 24 inches long.
Our inductance formula from H.A. Wheeler is:

L = (rN)/(9r + 10len) where L is microhenries not Henries.

The inductance in microhenries at this size is L = (rN)/(9r + 10len) = (9*561,001) / (27 + 240) = 18,910 H or 18.91 millihenries. That is one end of our range. Now lets say we can take that same wire, but wind it so tight that r = 1/4" so that the coil has a half inch diameter. How long will it be and what inductance will it have? Well for starters it will have 8,991 Turns so it would be 287 inches long nearly 24 feet. A bit impractical, but lets get the inductance: (0.25 * 8991) / ((9*0.25) + (10*287)) =1,759 H or 1.759 millihenries.

So even though the size is impractical, we can wind an inductance in the range of L = 1.759 - 18.91 millihenries. This sets our capacitance range between 51.65 F and 4.8 uF respectively. This is obtained by placing the inductance into Henries by dividing it by 10^-3 and then dividing that number into our L*C number 9.086 x 10 ^ -8. The result is in Farads. To convert to microfarads I divide the result by 10^-6. Since 4.8 F is a standard stock size and we would prefer the shorter coil for manageability, this would seem to be the proper match.

Now what if you had a 10 F in your box and wanted to use that instead? After all it is within the range required for the desired resonant frequency of 528 Hz. What would be our coil dimensions then? In this case we already know our L value because 9.086 x 10 ^ -8 / 10 * 10^-6 [for our 10F Cap] = 0.009086 Henries, or 9.086 mH also within range. Now we do have another equation: N = √((L*(9r + 10len)) / r) which is just a transposition of the inductance equation above. But is not much help unless the wire resistance is not a concern and we already know our radius, length and inductance. But we do have:

N = (W * 12) / (2πr) from above and perhaps we could substitute some things and get what we do need, that is r and len.

(W * 12) / (2πr) = √((L*(9r + 10len)) / r) (Note that L is microhenries not Henries for this equation).

Doing a bit of math yeilds:

r = ((144 * W)/36πL) - ((10/9) * len) [which is good if we know len]

From earlier we have:

len = N * T, substituting (W * 12) / (2πr) for N we get ((W * 12) / (2πr)) * T or simplified 12(WT)/2πr [which is good if we know r]

But what we need is an equation that gives us the r and the len when we plug in the W and the L. The problem is that there are any number of combinations of r and len to choose from. This is where a graphing calculator like the TI-83 can come in handy. Using the Y= function to set an equation in, we can get the calculator to generate a table of the possible r values and len values and also the ratio of the 2r / len. If you have one and would like the equations, here they are:
First [STO> 9086 ALPHA L ] to store the inductance in microhenries into L
Y1 = ((144*1177^2)/(36*π * L) ) - ((10/9)* X)
Y2 =(2*Y1)/X

Y1 will equal r and X will equal len in the table.
Y2 will give us the ratio of 2r/len which we would like to be around 0.25 to give us a 4:1 ratio. When you view the table results you will find a row for X = 50, Y1 =6.2376 and Y2 = .2495
So this gives us the numbers for r=6.2376 and len = 50. Does it work?

If N = (W * 12) / (2πr) then we get N = 360.37.
len = N * T= 11.53 inches but our X in the table was 50, not 11.53, so what gives?
Also, if we use r = 6.2376, N = 360.37 and len = 50 in the first formula, we do in fact get 9086 H. So the table works and the formula works for the inductance but we have a big problem with the geometry.
This exposes one of the flaws in H.A. Wheelers approximation formula, it has no entry parameter for wire thickness (wire diameter) or turns pitch. His formulas assume that the conductive material will fill the whole length like a foil sheet known as a "current sheet" as if the wire will get magically wider to fill the voids between windings so that the 'len' parameter is properly met.
It also exposes a fact about coils that few experimenters ever come to realize, a fact that the older guys who used to calibrate knob type TV tuners knew well; Changing the spacing between the turns of a coil alters its inductance and this technique can be used to tune a coil.
And of course it introduces a problem if we use an equation that depends on tightly packed windings, like len = N * T. Obviously if there are spaces between the windings len must equal the Number of turns (N) times the wire thickness (T) plus the Number of turns times the Space between wires (S) * , so len = (N*T) + (N*S) or N(T+S)

S = (len/N) - T

This is another way of saying the overall length of the coil (len) minus the tightly packed winding length (N * T) divided by the number of windings (N) will equal the individual spacing between the windings: S = (len - (N * T))/ N

To evaluate the effect that the spacing has on the inductance, simply plug in different len values in the equation L = (rN)/(9r + 10len) while keeping the radius and number of turns the same. For example, in our first hypothetical we had r=3, N=749 and len=24 giving us L = 18,910 H. What if we stretch that same coil out so it is 48 inches long? Just change len from 24 to 48 and plug it in and we get L = 9959 H. Wheelers equation was not meant to have spaces between the windings and we really cannot rely on the results we get when we play games with spacing like that. But it does help us to see that when we spread out the windings we reduce the inductance.

Back to our 10 F capacitor. What we want is a way to find the length and radius of a tightly packed coil that matches our inductance requirement, wire length and has at least a 4:1 ratio of len to diameter (len:2r). So we are looking for a way to keep S = 0 in our previous methods and that means that we need T in our equation for N=N, (W * 12) / (2πr) = √((L*(9r + 10len)) / r) which we can use in a substitution for len so it becomes (W * 12) / (2πr) = √((L*(9r + 10NT)) / r) but since this equation is solving for N that would make it self referential. But we can use the left side for N so that the equation is now (W * 12) / (2πr) = √((L*(9r + 10((W * 12) / (2πr))T)) / r) or N = √((L*(9r + 10((W * 12) / (2πr))T)) / r). With T in the equation we can then work some math to get r on one side and as it turns out this results in a quadratic form with two possible solutions:

r = ((36W / π) √((1296W^4)/π) - 2160πLWT) / 18πL [thanx to T. Gramm @ URAD for his help with this]
9πLr - (36W/π) * r + 60LWT = 0 [many will recognize this as the familiar ax + bx + c = 0 quadratic formula. In our case r is x]

W = wirefeet
T = Wire Thickness (wire diameter)
L = Inductance in microhenries

Notice the symbol in the r= equation above. This means that one solution requires that you add and the other solution means that you subtract. Naturally you will be looking for a solution where r > 0 and (W * 12) / (2πr) * T > 8r. Using the following values; W=1177, T=0.032, L=9086 we find that for (-) we get r = 1.32 and for (+) we get r = 60.47. So obviously we need r = 1.32 because len > 8r does not work for r = 60.47.

Yay! Finally after all that we have the radius and from that we can get our other values of N and len:
r = 1.32
N = (W * 12) / (2πr) = 1703
len = N * T = 1703 * 0.032 = 54.49

And now that we have r, N & Len we can double check that it works back to the desired L= 9086: L = (rN)/(9r + 10len)

(1.32 * 1703) / ((9*1.32) + (10 * 54.49)) = 9076 which is within 0.12%

Now lets double check that with our resonant frequency requirement: f = 1 / 2π√LC (remember here L is Farads, not microfarads)
1 / 2π√(9076*10^-6)*(10 * 10^-6) = 528.29 Hz

So 1177 feet of 20 AWG wire wound around a 1.32" Radius air core will be 54.49" long with an inductance of 9076 H. When placed in series with a 10 F capacitor it will be resonant at 528.29 Hz. The DC resistance of the coil alone will be 12 Ohms.

A word of warning:
If you build this circuit and apply a source to it at the resonant frequency, the voltage at the junction of the coil and capacitor will skyrocket into thousands of volts in a matter of seconds (depending on your source impedance). So you may want to have some type of load or discharge path in place at this junction to protect your devices from destruction.







copyright @ 2010 URAD


__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:53 AM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
+++++++++sn^> field line
Npole-------solenoid-------Spole
<^sn---------- field line

^ denotes electron axis rotation and direction of angular momentum
<> denotes direction of travel

I brought this back and updated it, if water spirals down a drain clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere, then the angular momentum of the magnetic field lines are opposite and cannot occupie the same path, they must run side by side attracting each other but not intertwineing.
Dave
Hi Dave,

Are the field lines in your image there electric or magnetic? It might help me if we can put your thoughts into terms I can relate to like this image:
Solenoids as Magnetic Field Sources

In that diagram, the electrons (negative) drift from the left through the wire and out the right while the Current (I) moves from the right, through the wire and out the left as the arrows indicate.

As regards the angular momentum, there is both an intrinsic angular momentum, and an orbital angular momentum:
Electron spin

Knowing which we are referring to will be helpful. Also, there must be a specific inertial momentum if the electron is traveling in a particular direction and if that happens to be a circular path I suppose it too could be referenced as an angular momentum relative to the center of circle (or in this case center of the solenoid).

Also, I am having a bit of trouble figuring out the field line polarities you show, and this could be because I don't have a good idea yet what the geometry is of the solenoid i.e. where is the inside and where is the outside?

Cheers,
__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 12-29-2010, 12:49 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
Man Harvey post 159 makes my butt hurt it'll take me a week to decipher that. Or longer

The diagram that I drew could be the core of a solenoid or bar magnet it shows only one set of moving magnetic field lines, there are thousands if not infinite moving through the core.
I envision the electrons angular momentum as a spring, it follows the springs wire as it moves through everything, the electron is just as the earth it has n and s poles and spins on its axis. One polarity moving in a north direction one in a south direction.

The electron is spinning on its axis as it moves this causes the angular momentum instead of just a straight line, its the torque of the electron.
The electron has to keep its n and s polarity because of the magnetic field, just as a compass, in other words its polarity can't be reversed to run in the opposite direction.
If it's polarity could be reversed to run in the opposite direction, a compass would not work here on earth.

When in a magnetic field the lines are attracted to each other because of polarity they may even share some space but they cant be completely intertwined.

There are models here on the net that show the field intertwining sharing the same space but in order to do that they have to have the same twist a clockwise direction, and the evidence says that isnt happening.

When the field is split you have one polarity coming from the north and one coming from the south- electricity.

When the field is split the electrons must still keep their angular momentum and a copper wires atomic structure is conducive to the angular momentum so it accepts the current, its all about structure in a conductor.

Harvey thanx for post 159 I know you put a lot of work into that, I'll study it an do my best to decipher it.

David
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 12-29-2010, 01:12 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
If you get behind the stream of electrons in a magnetic field and watch it as it leaves, water will go down the drain clockwise in one hemisphere and counterclockwise in the other hemisphere.
Just as Ed said everything is a magnet down to the alpha particle the electron. What causes polarity is their angular momentum. Electricity is free electrons and they bombard our planet from the universe.

When set in motion by a solenoid they seek order and creat a sink, drawing in electrons from the aither, the earth is a sink in the universe.



David
__________________
 

Last edited by Dave45; 12-29-2010 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:08 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
YouTube - Super Precision Gyroscope 21 - from gyroscope.com
I dont have much time this morning, but I wonder if you had a ring on one end of the gyroscope with a string run through the ring, fire up the gyro and give it a push in the direction of the string Id bet you would see the angular momentum of the electron.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 12-29-2010, 08:55 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
What would you do if you knew the answer, what would the world do and what would be the consequences.
To whom much is given much is expected.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 12-29-2010, 10:13 PM
gravityblock gravityblock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post

I think the copper's atomic structure is conducive to the angular momentum of the electron, but not perfect, this causes resistance. Maybe everyone knows this but me but I think a sine wave is just a one dimensional view of the electrons angular momentum.
The clues to the natural angular momentum of the electron are all around us expressed in nature as the golden mean.

Thanx
got to go to work
later David
David, you may be on the right track. To summarize the below, "Electrons will flow from the negative to the positive with a positive resistance, but will flow from the positive to the negative with a negative resistance. Superconductors with no resistance can only accept currents that are integer multiples of one another. Superfluid helium will spin in a small cup only at certain rotational speeds."

Quote:
Originally Posted by University of Buffalo

On July 12, 1998 the University of Buffalo announced its discovery:


CARBON COMPOSITES SUPERCONDUCT AT ROOM TEMPERATURE

SUPERCONDUCTION AT ROOM TEMPERATURE: NEGATIVE ELECTRICAL RESISTANCE SEEN IN CARBON COMPOSITES

"LAS VEGAS -- Materials engineers at the University at Buffalo have made two discoveries that have enabled carbon-fiber materials to superconduct at room temperature.

The related discoveries were so unexpected that the researchers at first thought that they were mistaken.

Led by Deborah D.L. Chung, Ph.D., UB professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering, the engineers observed negative electrical resistance in carbon-composite materials, and zero resistance when these materials were combined with others that are conventional, positive resistors.....

This finding of negative resistance flies in the face of a fundamental law of physics: Opposites attract.

Chung explained that in conventional systems, the application of voltage causes electrons -- which carry a negative charge -- to move toward the high, or positive end, of the voltage gradient.

But in this case, the electrons move the other way, from the plus end of the voltage gradient to the minus end....................

"In this case, opposites appear not to attract," said Chung. The researchers are studying how this effect could be possible.".........

..............A patent application has been filed on the invention. Previous patents filed by other researchers on negative resistance have been limited to very narrow ranges of the voltage gradient.

In contrast, the UB researchers have exhibited negative resistance that does not vary throughout the entire gamut of the voltage gradient."
The original press release was later pulled from UB's website, on July 16, 1998, and replaced with one which stated "her findings do not indicate that the combination is itself a superconductor."

Chung's paper itself says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wang, Chung
True negative resistance in the former sense is not possible due to energy consideration. However, apparent negative resistance in the former sense is reported here. ... Although the negative resistance reported here is apparent rather than true, its mechanism resembles that of true negative resistance (which actually does not occur due to energetics) in that the electrons flow in the unexpected direction relative to the applied current/voltage.

Wang, Chung, Apparent negative electrical resistance in carbon fiber composites
According to Tom Bearden, it's a true negative resistor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bearden
Professor Chung is the leading "smart materials" scientist in this country, and a scientist of international reputation. Her team tested the negative resistance effect thoroughly, for a year in the laboratory. There is no question at all about it being a true negative resistor. If there is a team in this country anywhere qualified to test a negative resistance effect in carbon materials, it is Professor Chung and her team at UB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naudin
J-L Naudin responds to queries about his replication experiments:

From: JNaudin509@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:46:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Naudin replicates Chung's Negative Resistor


I read your webpage. Have you measured the voltage across points A and C vs
current flowing between them? And/Or did you try attaching a load resistor
to B-D to see what effect it would have on the input circuit?

Dear Mike *******,

Thanks for your interest in my researches. Concerning the measurement method about the CNR, I have used the same method used by Dr. Chung ( fully described in the paper : "Apparent negative electrical resistance in carbon fiber composites," by Shoukai Wang and D.D.L. Chung - Composites, Part B, Vol. 30, 1999, p. 579-590.

The voltage difference between the two laminas in the junction has been
measured across B and C and the current flows from A to C with a standard
resistor ( R1 ) connected in serie. A Keithley 2001 multimeter has been used
during this experiment. The electrical current was calculated by Ohm's Law.

The R1 resistor is placed in serie between the point C and the ground point
of the function generator and the voltage is measured across R1.

Today, I have replaced the oscilloscope by two digital multimeters : One
multimeter is connected across the resistance R1 ( the positive pole at the
point C and the negative pole at the point E ) and the other multimeter
between the point B and D ( the positive pole at the point D and the negative
pole at the point B ). The result is always the same than previously and the negative resistance value is also confirmed.

After 3 days of running, the negative slope of the CNR v2.0 is always the
same, and its value is very stable. I have planned to build a multi-layers
CNR for increasing the negative resistance value so as to get more than 1 ohm.

I am going to try to get some of that Torayca fiber and try it myself. Do
any of you know where I can get some (ie, what kind of distributors or
suppliers carry it)? I would think I would only need a couple feet. And
also, am I correct in converting 1.4megapascal to be about 11.3 pounds (50
Newtons) for an area 6mm by 6mm?

You will find the carbon fiber at :

http://www.torayusa.com/cfa/fiber.htm

and you may download the datasheet of the Torayca T300 (6K) at :

http://www.rkgruppen.se/swedish/prod...er_torayca.htm

I shall be very interested to know your soon results.

Good experiment,

Best Regards
Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: JNaudin509@aol.com
Web site : go.to free short URL redirect and web forwarding service
Below is a quote from the latest revision of the press release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chung
Chung said that they looked at their initial results skeptically, doubting at first that what they were seeing was correct. After checking and rechecking the connections, and after using different meters over a period of time, they concluded that it was truly negative resistance that they were seeing.
GB
__________________
 

Last edited by gravityblock; 12-29-2010 at 10:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 12-30-2010, 08:15 AM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
YouTube - Super Precision Gyroscope 21 - from gyroscope.com
I dont have much time this morning, but I wonder if you had a ring on one end of the gyroscope with a string run through the ring, fire up the gyro and give it a push in the direction of the string Id bet you would see the angular momentum of the electron.
Here is a good lecture dealing with angular momentum and toward the middle onward he demonstrates various gyroscopic effects:
YouTube - Lec 24 | 8.01 Physics I: Classical Mechanics, Fall 1999

__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 12-30-2010, 10:36 AM
OccultBook OccultBook is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
*SIGH* All this is a bit too much for me.. I honestly just don't get what is being discussed here. Maybe I will get back after a cuppa coffee. Happy Holidays, everybody!
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:52 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
Gravityblock
I studied her paper, I cant quit figure out whats happening, whatever is happening is doing it at the junction of the fibers. She's dealing with electical currents we need to work on the magnetic currents to seperate them and collect them. That has to be done at the source,the core of a magnetic field.

If we pulse a solenoid we create a magnetic field thats forming and then dissipating some of the electrons that were pulled in from the aither just fizzel out back into the aither but some enter the solenoids coils and we get bemf.

Thats when they can be collected because when the field is on they have a path to follow but when the field is off they are still in their angular momentum but dont have a path so they will enter a conductor.

A generator pulses a magnetic field, its the space in between the north and south magnets of the rotor that causes the pulse, and allows the stream of electrons to enter the conductor.

The generator is doing it mechanically we need to do it electrically, less work more efficient, the stronger the field the more you collect, you would have more control.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 12-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
A researcher, scientist or just a man with vision eyes to see ears to hear, has a great responsibility. what would happen if free electricity were to make it to the world at this point in the time line.
First there would be great excitement then the reality would set in the worlds economy would crash and would not recover. The arab country's wouldnt need us anymore, we wouldnt need their oil, they couldnt get rich off us.
The US would probably be attacked, the Book of Revelation would unfold before your very eyes, world war,hunger,judgment.
You would be a hero for about five minutes,if you lived, and then your name would be despised. So think long and hard before you act, maybe it would be best to ponder test and keep your mouth shut until these things are already happening.
Look at the scientist that made the atomic bomb sure they did it because it could be done but was it the right thing to do. NO
Is the world better off. NO
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 12-30-2010, 01:32 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
I remember growing up as a child and my mother would take me to church and have Bible study in our home. They read the Book of Revelation and just couldnt figure out how this could be or how it could be implemented. But in our generation if you look everything is being put in place, its being done in the name of peace and security just as written, and when they say peace and security sudden destruction will come, we're close, it will happen as written.
Im not trying to push religion on anybody but I encourage you to look, read and see if the Bible is true.

David
__________________
 

Last edited by Dave45; 12-30-2010 at 02:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 12-30-2010, 03:15 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
Trying to envision ac current in a conductor has me stumped, I know it oscillates but why, whats happening, for some reason we have attraction and repulsion.

+++++++++sn^> field line
Npole-------solenoid-------Spole
<^sn---------- field line

^ denotes electron axis rotation and direction of angular momentum
<> denotes direction of travel

If we take one polarity of the field and put behind the other we get sn^-^sn so there's the attraction but their angular momentum is opposite so that must be whats causing the oscillation not so much that they repel but their angular momentum is opposite. If you put yourself behind the electron going in one direction and look at its angular momentum and then get behind the other in the opposite direction you can see whats happening.

If their angular momentum turned in the same clockwise direction we wouldnt have ac current they would just combine and create dc.
hmmmm maybe?

David
__________________
 

Last edited by Dave45; 12-30-2010 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 12-30-2010, 03:32 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
When the field runs side by side and in opposite direction and angular momentum there's not much that can stop them they permeate everything and we have a magnetic field, but when separated they follow a whole new set of rules and we have electricity that can be controlled.
We live in a magnetic universe.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 12-30-2010, 04:11 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
Here is a highly detailed and professional drawing
__________________
 

Last edited by Dave45; 02-06-2011 at 11:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 12-30-2010, 05:38 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
Trying to envision ac current in a conductor has me stumped, I know it oscillates but why, whats happening, for some reason we have attraction and repulsion.

+++++++++sn^> field line
Npole-------solenoid-------Spole
<^sn---------- field line

^ denotes electron axis rotation and direction of angular momentum
<> denotes direction of travel

If we take one polarity of the field and put behind the other we get sn^-^sn so there's the attraction but their angular momentum is opposite so that must be whats causing the oscillation not so much that they repel but their angular momentum is opposite. If you put yourself behind the electron going in one direction and look at its angular momentum and then get behind the other in the opposite direction you can see whats happening.

If their angular momentum turned in the same clockwise direction we wouldnt have ac current they would just combine and create dc.
hmmmm maybe?

David

Imagine water as a sea of charged particles. Each molecule can represent an electron. Now put that water in a pipe and circle the pipe around so that each end connects to a special pump. So the pipe is full of water in a circle and the special pump isolates the two ends from each other.

The special pump is made with a rubber diaphragm across the ends of the pipe so the water cannot flow across the diaphragm. Now what makes this diaphragm special is that we can make it bulge to one side, then straighten out then bulge to the other side, back and forth.

Half way around the circle, on the opposite side from the pump we have a flow meter that measures the water flow (current). The meter first moves in one direction and then back the other way back and forth in sync with the diaphragm.

This is the basics of AC. The charges inside the wire are simply pushed on one side and pulled on the other to cause motion of the charges throughout the conductor and then it is pushed on the other side back and forth. So it never actually adds or subtracts electrons or charges, it simply moves them through the pump. The pump is our AC generators.

Now, if we add next to our flow meter in our pipe a turbine and attach that turbine to a big flywheel we will observe an interesting thing in the flow. We will see a big pressure on the diaphragm to make it move but it wont bulge right away because it has to push all that water through the turbine and it takes time to get the flywheel spinning. But eventually all that pressure we put on the diaphragm to bulge it will push sufficient water through the turbine and the flywheel will be spinning good. Then, when we relax the pressure on the diaphragm we notice another interesting thing - the turbine and flywheel start acting like another pump, so after we are done putting pressure on our diaphragm we discover that the bulge stays there (or maybe even increases a bit) because the turbine has a suction there. But then the energy in the flywheel comes to a stop and the diaphragm comes to rest centered and we do the same thing in the opposite direction.

The turbine-flywheel is analogous to an inductor. The momentum of the flywheel is analogous to the magnetic field of the inductor. The water is the moving charges in the inductor and the turbine is the windings of the inductor. The pipe is our conductor.

Now suppose that next to our turbine we add a special tank. The tank is special because it has two horizontal openings and like our pump, it has a rubber diaphragm in the center. The rubber diaphragm takes a lot of pressure to bulge it, but the tank has a decidedly larger diameter than the pipe it is connected to so there is a lot of water on either side of the tank-diaphragm. But when enough pressure is applied, the tank-diaphragm will push all of the water out of one side of the tank. Now when we run our pump we are pushing water against the tank-diaphragm which in turn pushes against the water on the other side which then spins the turbine.

The special tank is analogous to a series capacitor. The pressure being applied is analogous to voltage. If the capacity of our special tank is well matched with the momentum curve of our turbine-flywheel, the two will have a resonance when we pulse our pump at a certain frequency.

Those are the basics of AC. The water does not move until the turbine lets it move and that wont happen until the moment of inertia is overcome on the flywheel. So even though the pressure is there (voltage) the current does not begin flowing right away. This is the phase shift we hear about where the current lags the voltage in an inductor. When we look at the capacitor, we find that the voltage in the capacitor (represented by how far its internal diaphragm is bulged in our analogy) doesn't happen until after the current flows (to push the diaphragm and make it bulge). So in the capacitor, the current leads the voltage or in our tank analogy, the water moves first before the diaphragm reaches full bulge.

Hope that helps
__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 12-30-2010, 05:52 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultBook View Post
*SIGH* All this is a bit too much for me.. I honestly just don't get what is being discussed here. Maybe I will get back after a cuppa coffee. Happy Holidays, everybody!
Sorry, that's probably my fault.

Ed Leedskalnin had a different way of looking at things as Loadstone has graciously quoted for us above. In Ed's theory, the universe is made of small magnetic particles smaller than photons. In his way of looking at things, he did not accept that electric charges (the electron) exist, but he felt that what we see as electric current was a symbiotic exchange of magnetic particles moving in two directions around the outside of a wire in a type of helix. He based these ideas on experiments he did in magnetics. He was not aware that the existence of the electron had been proven by lab experiments and later by television CRT's placed in the common households. His ideas predated television. So we have learned a lot since he wrote his work but he seemed to know some things that we don't.

So we are discussing what we know (by proven technology in use) and what can be (by evaluating Ed's work). Part of the discussion in the past posts deals with the magnetic relationship of charged particles (in this case the electron) and how that particle travels in a common solenoid. Also some of the discussion dealt with the resonance of a solenoid for a specific frequency.

We believe that all of these things are interconnected. Electric current, magnetic fields and Ed's success at moving rocks around without the help large cranes. It is reported that at one time he moved several of these large stones up onto the bed of a truck in the span of about a half hour all by himself and with no crane. He never explained how he did it, and the driver was amazed to come back and find the truck loaded. That event was when he moved his castle from the old site to the new site.

__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 12-30-2010, 09:33 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
I like Ed's diagram of the magnetic field
__________________
 

Last edited by Dave45; 02-06-2011 at 11:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:59 AM
Loadstone Loadstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 66
Hi all.
@Harvey..what do you mean Ed didn't know about electrons...
Let me just say that you can't mix Ed's notes and electron theory.
It's pointless to do so.

Ed's work is an entire theory on it's own that goes way beyond the so called electrons and every other exotic particle.

@Dave45. I understand the things you say and could add even more Revelation to them....but then you will end up depressed like me.

Scotty.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:26 AM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadstone View Post
Hi all.
@Harvey..what do you mean Ed didn't know about electrons...
Let me just say that you can't mix Ed's notes and electron theory.
It's pointless to do so.

Ed's work is an entire theory on it's own that goes way beyond the so called electrons and every other exotic particle.

@Dave45. I understand the things you say and could add even more Revelation to them....but then you will end up depressed like me.

Scotty.
Hi Scotty,

If you look at the attachment it is a picture quote of Ed's Words on page 38 of his book entitled "Magnetic Current" which was copyrighted in 1945.

Between 1869 and 1897 various lab experiments were done and finally in 1897 J.J Thomson proved the existence of the electron (see: Crookes tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia & Electron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and while television was available commercially from the late 20's (see:Television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which used Cathode Ray Tubes (CRT) that are solely dependent on the electron in order to function, Ed was not yet aware that the their existence had been proven and made the comment as attached.

I don't think Ed would have made this comment if he was aware of these tests and fully understood how the CRT functioned. Ed was very intelligent and had he been exposed to the electronic fundamentals of the CRT I think he would have readily admitted that these particles do exist. That is why I say his ideas predated television because it just simply was not well distributed or well understood in 1945. I probably should have clarified that to say that his ideas predated the mainstream use of television.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Leedskalnin Non Existing Electrons.JPG (33.0 KB, 27 views)
__________________
"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 12-31-2010, 11:28 AM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,504
I think Ed believed that the electron existed He just disagreed with the term because it didnt include magnetism.
For an action we get a reaction, but at super cold temperature that changes, a few researchers have reported a cooling effect its called magnetic evaporation.

Does anyone have a link where I can buy aluminum magnet wire, I found some but in china I would rather buy here in the US if possible.

Thanks
David
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 12-31-2010, 11:39 AM
carmine carmine is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 21
negative "corpuscles" (i.e. electrons)

I did not have the time too go all thru this , but i kinda like too understand why Thomson abandoned his earlier "nebular atom" hypothesis in which the atom was composed of immaterial vorticies. Because it sounds alot like Nassim Haramein.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers