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  #361  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:05 AM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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Walter Rosenthal

Ash,

I'm quite sure I'm wasting my breath and if I am I apologize but i wonder if you've viewed Energy From The Vacuum #15 with Walter Rosenthal. It most certainly would be crucial for anyone in the business of determining OU, or not... pretty amazing documentary.

Thanks
Keep up the fantastic work
Great write up in the magazine BTW, read that! Well put. You even look rested and in the pic.

Cheers
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  #362  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:31 AM
Phil_Watson Phil_Watson is offline
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SSOrbo results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbotov View Post
Phil,

I am a little confused as to exactly what your position is on Steorn as you have given some conflicting statements. In your recent analysis of the solid state Orbo you clearly stated that there was no OU based on your measurements and yet in the video on the Steorn homepage (YouTube - Testing of the Orbo Evaluation and Development Unit) you state that there were gains clearly outside of measurement error. You also stated that the potential for Orbo is phenomenal and yet how can that be if no gains were found?

Also, in another previous Steorn video that you and two other engineers appeared in (YouTube - Engineers' view of Steorn's Orbo technology) you clearly stated that there was an energy gain. Now considering that your analysis of the SS-Orbo was backed up by data which you provided on your blog no such data was provided for the E-Orbo. How is it you can make these conflicting statements one of which does not show OU and has data to back it up and the other where you state there is a gain with no data to back it up.

So far there have been three different iterations of "Orbo," over the last four years to which Steorn claims the effect is present in all three and all three show OU. Not to throw the baby out with the bathwater but if one does not show OU does that not make the other two suspect?

Please clarify if possible.

Thanks in advance.
I will try and clarify, the first variant that I had personal experience of was the permanent magnet torque experiment. This was more a physics lab type of experiment. It focused on measuring toruque produced by the asymetric fields. Whilst it was very useful to demonstrate the McCarthy effect, it was far from a device that could actual be used to produce energy. This is the experiment to which I refer to in my first video.

The next device was the eOrbo which tried to harness the above affect, I carried out some limited tests in Dublin and it seemed very promising. I was to be given a unit to allow me independently test however before that happened Steorn changed direction. The first (of many) SS Orbos arrived, I was sent versions of (nearly) all these. The biggest problem was that, in order to trigger the effect, huge quantities of energy were being used. I recall one experiment where we had to supply 18W to measure an apparent gain on 1mW. This was certainly within measurement error.

Now to my last video. The most recent SSOrbo that I worked on and the subject of in my blog, was demonstrated to me in Steorn, I carried out some initial tests and the gain appeared to be HUGE. Unlike 18W in for 1mW out, this appeared to be giving 10mW out for 1mW in. That is what I meant by beyond measurement error in the video. However, when I returned to my on lab and we began testing we (as we always did) carried out the tests using the Steorn method. We the deconstructed the measurement method, and applied a more rigorus method, when this was done we noticed a flaw in Steorns technique. When we rectified this we found that the results produced where in line with classical physics, i.e. no gain.

How can I say this invalidates the SS Orbo but not the intial effect. That is quite simple, the permanent magnet torque experiment and the ss orbo are vastly different and failure of the SS Orbo by itself does not necessarily mean failure of the other.
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  #363  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:49 AM
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Hi Phil, this is why we need to get away from measurements and scopes and build some thing performing real work, it doesn't have to be looped, but the dame thing has to do some thing by being loaded to measure a COP.

Its really pointless to say you have FE unless you have done that, i don't know of any one in history who has claimed to have free energy with out running some thing.Thanks for answering here my friend., your a peoples engineer

Ash
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  #364  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Bobbotov Bobbotov is offline
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Phil,

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it.

Just a follow-up: will you conduct any further tests on any of the three versions of the Orbo? It would seem that the e-Orbo which you felt was very promising would be a good candidate or has Steorn abandoned development (changed directions) on that platform and the original PMM version? That seems odd since they held several weeks of public demonstrations on the e-Orbo device and invited people to do testing at Waterways giving the impression that they felt very confident on that version.

Ash, I understand your frustration at the constant reference to calculations and instead building a working device yet Steorn has focused their entire endeavors for the last almost five years solely on calculations and stated emphatically that they have OU without ever building a device that does actual work. If you feel that basing OU solely on calculations is not proof then essentially Steorn has not proved they have OU, right?

Also, I am not aware of any free energy device in history that actually does work on any kind of practical basis. If so, wouldn't that make all of this moot?
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  #365  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobbotov View Post

Also, I am not aware of any free energy device in history that actually does work on any kind of practical basis.
Henry Mooray's devide was tested by many people who wrote documents about the testing. But the invention was killed by the criminal elite.

Stan Mayer's water fuel cells was also OU and was also killed, including the inventor.

Nowadays it seems that people are getting 4kw of electricity with HHO and a 5.5kw disel generator.

Besides that I don't knwo of anything else.
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  #366  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:04 PM
Phil_Watson Phil_Watson is offline
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Originally Posted by Bobbotov View Post
Phil,

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it.

Just a follow-up: will you conduct any further tests on any of the three versions of the Orbo? It would seem that the e-Orbo which you felt was very promising would be a good candidate or has Steorn abandoned development (changed directions) on that platform and the original PMM version? That seems odd since they held several weeks of public demonstrations on the e-Orbo device and invited people to do testing at Waterways giving the impression that they felt very confident on that version.
work on any kind of practical basis. If so, wouldn't that make all of this moot?
I was very surprised when they suddenly jumped to the SS Orbo after the extensive demos of it in Dublin. I would loved to have tested it thuroly on my own. However I never had one so I can't!

There was a previous question about Kirchoffs laws, and did they breakdown. The answer to that is no. The reason I got different energy values when I measured energy as the integral of VI and integral of I^2.r was because for a period of time r was being shunted by the solid state switch. This resulted in r being lower than what Steorn assumed it to be. If one had calculated this value then the energies in both methods would of been the same. So why didn't I do this? Well it's easier said than done. One one have to model a complexly changing impedance (that of the solid state junction as it turned off) which in it's self would be worthy of a pHD
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  #367  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:10 PM
Evolvealready Evolvealready is offline
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Henry Mooray's devide was tested by many people who wrote documents about the testing. But the invention was killed by the criminal elite.

Stan Mayer's water fuel cells was also OU and was also killed, including the inventor.

Nowadays it seems that people are getting 4kw of electricity with HHO and a 5.5kw disel generator.

Besides that I don't knwo of anything else.
Don't be stupid. Moray was a fraud with a mail order degree.
Stan Mayer was convicted of fraud and died of stroke.
No one with any free energy machine has ever been able to give solid evidence that it works, which makes sense, since everything we know about how the world works from centuries of experiment and observation says it is impossible.
I'd love it if someone could develop free energy, but it hasn't been done so far and there are no likely candidates out there.
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  #368  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:07 PM
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re

A great day for humankind today, i would like to say all of you made panacea possible and now its time to give humanity FREEDOM, we have the weather engineering knowledge held in a public trust, and now free energy, this year i think our lives will change forever, panacea steorn video production coming.
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  #369  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Aldwyn Aldwyn is offline
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Hi Phil,
Thanks for your posts, your results are very interesting, if a little disheartening, but this is the sort of information we need. Has Steorn had any response to your findings? I heard that they blamed them on your scope, but that does not seem possible given the details you have shared. Do they dispute your findings?
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  #370  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil_Watson View Post
I was very surprised when they suddenly jumped to the SS Orbo after the extensive demos of it in Dublin. I would loved to have tested it thuroly on my own. However I never had one so I can't!

There was a previous question about Kirchoffs laws, and did they breakdown. The answer to that is no. The reason I got different energy values when I measured energy as the integral of VI and integral of I^2.r was because for a period of time r was being shunted by the solid state switch. This resulted in r being lower than what Steorn assumed it to be. If one had calculated this value then the energies in both methods would of been the same. So why didn't I do this? Well it's easier said than done. One one have to model a complexly changing impedance (that of the solid state junction as it turned off) which in it's self would be worthy of a pHD
Thanx Phil.

I would like to review that schematic and measurement method in greater detail. If this is not available publicly, could you PM me at the SKDB with the info?

With gratitude,

Harvey
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  #371  
Old 02-05-2011, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcarring View Post
Ash,

I'm quite sure I'm wasting my breath and if I am I apologize but i wonder if you've viewed Energy From The Vacuum #15 with Walter Rosenthal. It most certainly would be crucial for anyone in the business of determining OU, or not... pretty amazing documentary.

Thanks
Keep up the fantastic work
Great write up in the magazine BTW, read that! Well put. You even look rested and in the pic.

Cheers
Hello my friend yes very helpful, i nearly fell out of my chair when i saw the EFTV, as Walter said back in 2004 about lutec, but Anthony Craddock (sp?) didn't release that info till YEARS later, i guess he is making a series for profit however its vital information which shows that you need a non profit doing this work, or we never get real time results. Lutec are not far from us (in same state) i keep a close watch on them and will report if i see any thing.

Ash
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  #372  
Old 02-16-2011, 12:41 AM
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Hi ALL

Okay its been very difficult to get the source principle into a measurable quantifiable unit that the developers can all access at this time (may change in future ) The idea is to get a CONFIGURATION that we can all agree upon. There has recently been a newer version (cannot go into details) that was specifically created so that developers could do experiments with primitive equipment and help get he ball rolling.

This is a heat out put. So this is what every one is "wrestling at" ATM, this may be the final version for the developers to evaluate Steorn's principle, there are a lot of loyal people there trying to help them.

There MAY be a heater come out of the Orbo, i said MAY, cant go onto any more details, that was the big news. So now we have the SS board and another configuration to wrestle with, will try and get components for the new one, we still dont have our final coil info for our board at this time, but only because the versions are being optimized and tested, so its still being tested guys

What a scenario yes i know i feel for all too. Steorn are still doing their best to help get it done for all, so are the developers. So lets just give them a chance for now . My money is on Clanzer to get some thing working before us, he is concentrating on PM side, we are working on the latest ones

If we had a centralized hub where developers could come and work on it with the talent we have in the field like Peter/Aaron and others we would have this sorted sooner, we have developers all around the world so its a little complex trying to get to the bottom of what they have but we will make sure we are THOROUGH .

We do need a research center , that's why Panacea has said this YEARS ago, dont take my word for it

George Wiseman talks about his castle
GREER about an R and D lab
Decker
Alek

And more. All agree we need a unified place where we can be independent evidence based and non profit. But also get real time progress. Hope to have some SS board news in the next few weeks guys, working as hard as they will let us

Ash
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  #373  
Old 03-23-2011, 03:23 PM
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Any new developments

Hi Ash, I'm a long time lurker that just got around to registering. I have been looking for news on your work with the SS Orbo on this forum as well as at Panacea and was wondering if you have made any progress over the last month? Hoping you have an update.

Thanks,
Lancair
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  #374  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:01 AM
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Hi Lancair/ALL

Pretty good timing, the first solid state board results were going to be posted in April (newsletter time). This should be when we can get all we need for the heater, its still actually being designed by the crew beleive it or not, thats how much it is in the DEVELOPER stages.

It has not been easy. This is why you are not reading about ANYONE'S replication at this time The SS board looks to be a heater.

WE will stuck it out till we have exhausted every avenue, we were given an extra year for free, the heater should give us an idea of what issues are next, not easy my friend but at least we are not quitting till there is nothing more we can do. Will have some news in April of the heater and post some snaps of the units. Its been very hard to get to this stage guys. Cant say too much more for now.

Ash
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:31 AM
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Hi Lancair/ALL

Pretty good timing, the first solid state board results were going to be posted in April (newsletter time). This should be when we can get all we need for the heater, its still actually being designed by the crew beleive it or not, thats how much it is in the DEVELOPER stages.

It has not been easy. This is why you are not reading about ANYONE'S replication at this time The SS board looks to be a heater.

WE will stuck it out till we have exhausted every avenue, we were given an extra year for free, the heater should give us an idea of what issues are next, not easy my friend but at least we are not quitting till there is nothing more we can do. Will have some news in April of the heater and post some snaps of the units. Its been very hard to get to this stage guys. Cant say too much more for now.

Ash
Great Ash
we are still hoping on good news from you about the ORBO.
If this thing works really works. so much stuff dose not work or is patented and is never seen again.

cheers Rod
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  #376  
Old 03-24-2011, 01:54 PM
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Thanks Ash and team for all the work you put in, and all the info you provde.
Regards, Bren.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:38 PM
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Hi All

Appreciate the positive thoughts and encouragement, its not looking good however for the Orbo, there is not much of us left trying to replicate the claims, a few dedicated members are there with their own version of the SS board but its still going through the developer stages guys, hence why there is no new news sadly, we have the board and coil info now, still are not clear how to hook it up, we hope to have this info by April. Will keep trying.

I hope Steorn work on making versions for developers that are easier to reproduce their claims, we will encourage them as much as we can.We wont rest till this thing is taken to the end and have a report for all.

Mean time, till we get the missing info, we are going to work on the alternative cancer course, Urban farming, Raw food nutrition and more of the open source projects, Will have news as soon as we can guys.

Ash
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:37 AM
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Hi All

Appreciate the positive thoughts and encouragement, its not looking good however for the Orbo, there is not much of us left trying to replicate the claims, a few dedicated members are there with their own version of the SS board but its still going through the developer stages guys, hence why there is no new news sadly, we have the board and coil info now, still are not clear how to hook it up, we hope to have this info by April. Will keep trying.

I hope Steorn work on making versions for developers that are easier to reproduce their claims, we will encourage them as much as we can.We wont rest till this thing is taken to the end and have a report for all.

Mean time, till we get the missing info, we are going to work on the alternative cancer course, Urban farming, Raw food nutrition and more of the open source projects, Will have news as soon as we can guys.

Ash
Thank you so much for the update!



-Altrez
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:30 AM
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Thank you so much for the update!



-Altrez
Over unity Is like the existence of god. No one has ever seen him but many believe in him. We need to change that
Cheers Rod
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:39 PM
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Guys i was not sure if i was going to get in poo for reporting before steorn, but you may have heard that Steorn are working on a 15 kW heating element.

They have version 3 of their principle now

1) PM orbo
2) E-orbo
3) Solid state A ->electrical/heat -Solid state B ->heater

Now we can finally fire up our board for the heater after our new coil is done, man that was a mission, the guys on the forum have worked their butt off to get that, its solid state A designed by teh forum people, not steorn hence why its taken us a while to learn it, we are all still learning from what info is there so please bare with the SKBD guys.

We have not got to solid state B yet, it only came out a few weeks ago, the 15KW heater is based on the new solid state B, i hear its intended to be 5Kw in, but not built yet, its being developed, so still we are struggling to get some juice for now but will have some news in the next month my friends.

Any how its good to see Steorn trying to do what the developers have been struggling to do for a while now, build a load on this thing, no more meters

Ash
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:04 PM
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I am a little confused. Four days ago you stated that it didn't look good for Orbo and now it does look good. Which is it?

Also, you state that the SS-Orbo-A is being designed by the SKDB. Why? Steorn is the originator of this technology so why are others doing their work for free? Is any of this related to the OEDU boards that were supposedly to be shipped out months ago or is this all something else? If it is something else what purpose does the OEDU board have at this point and have any been shipped out at all?

Is Steorn going to develop the SS-Orbo -B themselves or will that also be an SKDB project? Will this eventually be a product that can be sold or is it just going to be another prototype?

Sorry for all the questions but this is getting muddier to me.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:55 PM
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There is not one point in my post that i say "its looking good". I do however give Steorn some credit for finally getting a heater contract as this is going past the meters and what we all need to see.We will investigate and report what we can find.

Steorn's technology is for developers, i suggest you read their website for further information. They give you a principle you must build a device. You can read more information on their website. I am not authorized to disclose who is developing the heater, whats important is if we can replicate it and independently measure it . This is why we are on their forum .

Ash
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:48 PM
Bobbotov Bobbotov is offline
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Bobbotov

There is not one point in my post that i say "its looking good".
So, it's not looking good????


Quote:
I do however give Steorn some credit for finally getting a heater contract as this is going past the meters and what we all need to see.We will investigate and report what we can find.
So when you say Steorn is getting a heater contract does that mean it is being developed by some other commercial group? The reason I ask is because in your previous post you said, "...but you may have heard that Steorn are working on a 15 kW heating element."

Quote:
As for your other questions, Yes you are confused, Steorn's technology is for developers,...
Well, the confusion comes from what I just posted where you said Steorn was working on a heater which lead me to believe it was of their own creation.

Quote:
...i suggest you read their website for further information. They give you a principle you must build a device. You can read more information on their website. I am not authorized to tell you who is developing the heater, its not important, whats important is if we can replicate it and independently measure it . This is why we are on their forum.

Ash
I have read their website and they offer licenses for commercial development as well as developers. If some other group is developing a product under commercial licensing with Steorn it would be the first I have heard about that aspect and I think it would be considered important. Maybe it is wishful thinking that this might be the first product to hit the market after all of this time.

Sorry to bug you but I think clarity is the essence of understanding. Just as you struggle to understand the inner workings of the Orbo I am sure you ask many questions for clarification. And the devil, as you know, is in the details and there are not too many places outside of the SKDB to ask questions.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:15 AM
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So, it's not looking good????




So when you say Steorn is getting a heater contract does that mean it is being developed by some other commercial group? The reason I ask is because in your previous post you said, "...but you may have heard that Steorn are working on a 15 kW heating element."



Well, the confusion comes from what I just posted where you said Steorn was working on a heater which lead me to believe it was of their own creation.



I have read their website and they offer licenses for commercial development as well as developers. If some other group is developing a product under commercial licensing with Steorn it would be the first I have heard about that aspect and I think it would be considered important. Maybe it is wishful thinking that this might be the first product to hit the market after all of this time.

Sorry to bug you but I think clarity is the essence of understanding. Just as you struggle to understand the inner workings of the Orbo I am sure you ask many questions for clarification. And the devil, as you know, is in the details and there are not too many places outside of the SKDB to ask questions.
Hi Bobbotov

Sadly we can only report what we can, so its impossible for me to say its looking good until we have our heater working , whether Steorn are building it for a developer or not, i must say i cant disclose that information even if i knew I dont make the rules sadly.

My hunch is Steorn are actually working with a company to help them develop the heater, .Steorn may be helping the developers in this case for a change Which is about time IMO. Whats important is developers replicating the effect and building cheap devices for people. We have been there for months working on this element. And will continue with our heater board for all.

Ash
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:17 AM
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Okay, thanks.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:31 AM
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No Prob. Yes i know its confusing my friend, Steorn do it to us all the time on their forum LOL. This time i think it will be the first product, as they seem to be in there overseeing that it gets replicated. Working with the people who contracted teh heaters, After all of our failed attempts i think this had to happen. Will post any more i can .

Ash
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:16 AM
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Hi ALL, onto the first stages of board testing, not allowed to say too much more and cant answer Q's about the board..Hope we have some good news soon.

Ash
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Steorn Board (1).jpg (47.9 KB, 61 views)
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:59 AM
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Steorn may be getting there finger out because of Rossi/Foccardi competition.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:26 AM
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Hi All.

Steorn have always amazed us, i could write a book about the inadequacy there
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:09 AM
wayne.ct wayne.ct is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 552
A question

Hi Ash/All,

The Orbo infomercials look really great and I can't help thinking they are on to something. I just finished reading all 389 posts on this thread and I hope you will clear up a point of confusion for me. At one point, Ash, you said that things were looking good and we could go ahead with confidence. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I took that to mean you were convinced their technology is for real and we could safely license the product. I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but I kept reading. And now I have made my way through the entire thread.

It seems that in the time that has past since that post Steorn has changed their design or product or whatever and the solid-state SS unit is now what you are building? If you would kindly recap which version or versions you thought were encouraging and make a current recommendation to go or hold back, I think it would clear this up in my mind and perhaps help others that are following this thread.

Personally, I think I'm going to have to wait for more positive results, but I am optimistic and think we will end up with some good news. I appreciate your hard work on this technology, Ash. You are doing all of us a great service.

Thanks,
Wayne
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