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  #181  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:42 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Extra coil inductance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rave154 View Post
LUC,

nicely explained, makes much sense....

since it seems to be the split winding that is giving the higher inductance, how about instead of 2 split windings.......useing 4 split windings? or 6 or 8? to enhance the extra inductance "effect" on the coil.

see attatched
Two closely linked coils will double the inductance ; What will the addition of a third do? The third coil gets left out: The rule is ; Only two coils can couple and the two combined will out power any third coil. Now four coils can't beat the mutual inductance feature of two if you're halving the wire length. That would just be treading water. Any extra wire can just add to the two existing coils.


@Gotoluc,

Your choice of the highest perm toroid core rated in the Mhz range that you're operating in the a 55 Khz range, is not maximizing the full magnetic strength calculated by the permeability to inductance ratio formula. The core figure's out to have much more inductance strength on paper then it can deliver in magnetic field strength with the wrong frequency input!

"Magnetic permeability is not a constant figure, it changes with the frequency of the field".
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-08-2017 at 12:47 PM.
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  #182  
Old 02-08-2017, 04:19 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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10 Henry coil

Here's a 10 henry (Mega Coil) for $11. online: Imagine hooking an electro magnet and potentiometer up in series with a battery, and simply dialing the inductance from 10 henries down to near zero!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg large_4509_DSCN8665.jpg (376.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 51Y53eX31EL__SL1100_.jpg (63.2 KB, 3 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-08-2017 at 04:22 PM.
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  #183  
Old 02-08-2017, 04:53 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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18.2 Henry Toroid coil.

Measures 18.2 henry (Hy)
DC resistance of 135 ohms
Center diameter: 5/16"
Outer diameter: 1-1/8"
Height: 11/16"

$9.98 Ebay. This one has them all beat!
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File Type: jpg s-l500.jpg (28.2 KB, 3 views)
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  #184  
Old 02-08-2017, 05:30 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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16 Henry coil.

I just bought this 16 henry coil off ebay. Look at the stator at the core base for convienient electro-magnet placement:
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File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (288.7 KB, 12 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-08-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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  #185  
Old 02-08-2017, 07:50 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Henries to Gauss.

One Tesla is the magnetic flux equivilant to a SI unit of one Henry. A Tesla is equal 10,000 gauss. It takes 700 Gauss to lift 3 pounds. Therefore to offset the 16 Henries we need almost 600 pounds of pulling force.

16 Henries is equal to one hundred sixty thousand Gauss. Luc's got four 1/2" x 1/8 N 35 discs. with around 2000 gauss. That's merely 20% of the close to one henry of inductance it's replacing at 10,000 gauss per Tesla and one Tesla equal one Henry of inductance.. The forces would equal each other if a D.C. current were applied instead of a low duty cycle pulse.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-08-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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  #186  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:14 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
One Tesla is the magnetic flux equivilant to a SI unit of one Henry. A Tesla is 100000 gauss. It takes 700 Gauss to lift 3 pounds. Therefore to offset the 16 Henries we need almost 6000 pounds of pulling force. That would take three of these 800kg rectangular magnets at 85 euros a clip:

16 Henries is equal to one million, six hundred thousand Gauss. It would take four of those block magnets to fully saturate the 16 henry coil core.
Tesla is an SI unit of flux density and is NOT equivalent to one Henry (which is a unit of inductance). One Tesla is equal to 10,000 Gauss, not 100,000 as Allen claims.

Do you ever check facts Allen?
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  #187  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:31 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Tesla is an SI unit of flux density and is NOT equivalent to one Henry (which is a unit of inductance). One Tesla is equal to 10,000 Gauss, not 100,000 as Allen claims.

Do you ever check facts Allen?
@bistander,

Thanks for correcting me. I'm trying to do some ballpark math on the fly. You're right one tesla equals 10,000 gauss.
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  #188  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:44 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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3" neo.

This 3" by 1-1/2" neo has 685 pounds of pulling force. This appears to be in proportion to offset the 16 henries of inductance!

Tolerances: 0.004" x 0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N52
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Axial (Poles on Flat Ends)
Weight: 45.97 oz. (1303 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 625.2 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 625.2 lbs
Surface Field: 5233 Gauss
Max Operating Temp: 176F (80C)
Brmax: 14,800 Gauss
BHmax: 52 MGOe


One Tesla is 10,000 gauss. 700 gauss can lift 3 pounds. One Henry of inductance can deliver one Tesla of magnetic flux. Therefore the 16 henries equals 160,000 gauss. Now, 160,000 gauss divided by 700 equals 228.571. Multiplied by 3 equals 685 pounds of pulling force exactly equal to the strength of the 3" x 1-1/2" neo disc. The rated neo disc gauss for the 3" disc is 14,800 very close to the 16,000 gauss we extrapolated with the rule of thumb factors.

Coupled with this electro magnet as a hildebrandt valve

•Product name : electromagnet solenoid; model : xrn-xp65x30
•Rated Voltage : DC 12V; lifting force : 80kg/176lb
•Overall Size : 65 x 30 mm / 2. 6" x 1. 2"(Dia. *T); thread DIA : 7mm
•Lead Length : 24cm/9. 5 inch
•Weight : 557G; package content : 1 x electromagnet solenoid

The last disc on the right has a pulling force of 115 pounds. This coupled with a 50 lb electromagnet would yield the kind of Inductance to magnet strength ratio Luc arrives at with his self running coil..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DZ0X8-N52one.jpg (5.4 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 41Vk6EokueL__AC_US160_.jpg (4.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg DX8C-N52one.jpg (5.0 KB, 3 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-08-2017 at 11:16 PM.
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  #189  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:37 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Did you miss this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Tesla is an SI unit of flux density and is NOT equivalent to one Henry (which is a unit of inductance).
Posted again.

Your stated value of 160,000 Gauss is like 10 times stronger than the magnetic fields used in MRI.
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  #190  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:04 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Measurements.

@bistander,

A fully charged electro-magnet with 1 Henry of inductance, should generate 10,000 gauss of magnetic flux, with enough pulling strength to lift 42 Lb's off the floor. 160,000 gauss should lift 685 pounds, exactly as much as the most powerful N54 3" diameter x 1-1/2" neo disc pictured above. The Henry converts to the Weber/Ampere and converts to one Tesla of magnetic flux, and as you helped point out, 10,000 gauss.

16 Henries is a (Mega Coil). A fully charged electro-magnet with that much inductance could lift three grown men. Luc's pulsing with only a fraction of the full power. A magnet gauss to inductance ratio like Luc's would only need a few hundred pounds of pulling force; Still a very huge magnet compared to the tiny 1/2" N34 neo's Luc used.

I see your point though; When I work the coil inductance numbers through, it equals the pulling strength of the 3" neo magnet but the magnet's only rated at 10 times less gauss. 16,000 for the magnet and I have the coil gauged with 160,000. This has me very puzzled right now!

If the magnet were only 16,000 gauss, it should only have 68 pounds of pulling strength instead of 685, assuming 700 gauss can lift 3 pounds. The factor's only off by a power of 10! Hummm! There's a misplaced decimal somehow. Maybe you can help find the error in my math?
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-09-2017 at 12:29 PM.
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  #191  
Old 02-09-2017, 02:01 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Henries to gauss

@bistander,

The most powerful junk yard magnet that lifts up cars generates one Tesla of field strength. I believe the equivalency was poorly stated between Henries of Inductance and Teslas of field strength. I think the Henry is good for 1000 gauss. This moves the decimal back where it belongs.
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  #192  
Old 02-09-2017, 03:59 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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1" x 1" neo tube

The 16 Henery coil should have 65 pounds of pulling force, not 650 at 16,000 gauss. That puts this $20. one inch by one inch neo tube below at 61 pounds:

You can see by the rating it's nearly 14,000 gauss:

Dimensions: 1" dia. x 1" thick
Tolerances: 0.004" x 0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Axial (Poles on Flat Ends)
Weight: 3.41 oz. (96.5 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 61.00 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 61.00 lbs
Surface Field: 5903 Gauss
Max Operating Temp: 176F (80C)
Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
BHmax: 42 MGOe
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DX0X0one.jpg (4.2 KB, 2 views)
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 02-09-2017 at 04:19 PM.
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