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  #181  
Old 03-24-2010, 02:27 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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Let us understand the significance of this.

Just because they didn't find the records does not mean they didn't happen. The ones that they have found were actually very well condensed versions of the original accounts from the Sumerian society. I would tent to believe that some of the "religious" banter in the bible is filler. You have to understand that any time they translated the original text they tended to throw in their own beliefs as well like in the King James version of the bible. When one compares the Aramaic and Greek versions of the bible you will see that certain things were omitted and other things added to support that time periods customs or beliefs.

Not everything in the bible should be taken as fact but a lot of the bigger accounts seem to be very accurate with much condensing of the stories. It could have been a translation error or sticky translation problems that made them condense the original account.

It would seem to me that if we had found the Sumerian texts that maybe the Egyptians or even a subset of Egyptians who were scholars tried to translate the earlier texts to keep them in history. And as others have said once you tell a story then pass it along it can and will change as it is passed. At some point I believe the earliest Egyptians had access and that someone secretly transcribed the earlier texts and formed a religion out of it. It would be explained by the Moses stories of trying to get the Egyptians to let them (the followers) go and believe what they wanted. But the problem is I think they knew what the pyramid was for and the Covenant of "God" was actually the power source or focusing unit that made the pyramid work. Hence the weird accounts of strange Miracles that Moses did as they escaped. They knew that it held or did the will of "God" and that they could not leave it with the Egyptians anymore because they were being corrupted by the power of it.

What do you think?

*Edit I believe the Egyptians have full knowledge of what is below the pyramids and surrounding structures. In fact the proof is that they are now sectioning off the pyramid to protect that secret. I bet there is an access that they have found when you stated Aaron and they indeed found the Library. But like the times of old the knowledge is more powerful then their ability to share the truth. Again corruption has crept in and they keep us in the dark. I don't believe it would destroy our belief system. It would only go to provide us with the truth. The only thing it would do would be to free us from the control of a much corrupted system and that corruption is the evil we all face to this day. Maybe just maybe this deception will be broken by our kin that left us so many years ago by coming back and reintroducing us to our forefathers and the truth of who we really are.
The one thing that scares me is that it seems that the ones in power are painting our ancestors as evil through all our media. Look at the movies and events that disturbs us the most. Aliens coming down here using anal probes and terrible devices to invade our bodies like they are trying to make us fear them and fight them when they come back. Look at the movie about 2012 coming out. It is only a way to strike fear in our hearts so we will die to save ourselves or protect them (our current rulers). All the information that would dispell this is being kept hidden from us but for a few tid bits that have been leaked by individuals who only want the truth. They don't care about it because their own media blitz is countering these revelations and in effect being hidden by not shedding light on the truth or bringing it to the forefront. Like hiding it in plain sight like the ones in power do with anything like that. Look at Tesla's situation and you can see the parallel in what I am saying. Yes the truth is out there but they keep it at bay even when it is discovered by a media blitz that squashes or misdirects the general publics attention to something else. Fear is a great motivator especially when it is built and designed to mislead us through ignorance that they keep us in.
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  #182  
Old 03-24-2010, 04:43 PM
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They learned in world war II how effective fear is as a way to control people. The current fear of 2012 is now their driving force to keep people in the dark. They are using it to further control our fears and thoughts. They learned all about brainwashing and subliminal control after the war. I feel that most of what we watch and probably most of what we hear broadcast has subliminal messages to control our way of thinking. I hardly watch TV or listen to the radio these days because of control they have on the media. There is no freedom of speech now. Everything they discover will be hiddne from the general public if it involves anything to do with our ancestory or energy capabilities. More and more control is what they seek, and will stop at nothing until we are totally suppressedGood Luck. Stealth
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  #183  
Old 03-24-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jbignes5 View Post
I believe the Egyptians have full knowledge of what is below the pyramids and surrounding structures. In fact the proof is that they are now sectioning off the pyramid to protect that secret. I bet there is an access that they have found .. and they indeed found the Library.
This would certainly seem to be the case. Herodotus wrote that he personally viewed the upper rooms of the Labyrinth at Lake Moeris, and said there were 1500 rooms in all, with an equal number below these. He was not permitted to view the lower chambers, but the Egyptian priests told him that numerous scrolls were hidden there in subterranean apartments. Lake Moeris is about 32 miles from the Great Pyramid, but at the time of Herodotus' visit the shoreline would have extended to within perhaps 15 to 20 miles of the Great Pyramid. Herodotus wrote, "There I saw twelve palaces regularly disposed, which had communication with each other, interspersed with terraces and arranged around twelve halls. It is hard to believe they are the work of man. The walls are covered with carved figures, and each court is exquisitely built of white marble and surrounded by a colonnade. Near the corner where the labyrinth ends, there is a pyramid, two hundred and forty feet in height, with great carved figures of animals on it and an underground passage by which it can be entered. I was told very credibly that underground chambers and passages connected this pyramid with the pyramids at Memphis (Giza)."

And other records were indicated:
  • Crantor(300 BC) wrote that there were certain underground pillars in Egypt that contained a written stone record of pre-history, and that they lined access ways connecting the pyramids.
  • The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus made additional disclosures about the existence of subterranean vaults that appeared to lead to the interior of the Great Pyramid, writing of inscriptions which the ancients asserted were engraved on the walls of certain underground galleries and passages that were constructed deep in the dark interior to preserve ancient wisdom from being lost in the flood.
  • In the tenth century, Masoudi contended that "written accounts of Wisdom and acquirements in the different arts and sciences were hidden deep, that they might remain as records for the benefit of those who could afterwards comprehend them."
  • Christian Rosenkreuz, the said founder of the Order of Rosicrucians, allegedly penetrated a "secret chamber beneath the ground" in the area of the Sphinx, and there found a library of books full of secret knowledge.
What is no doubt the most amazing report of records found at Giza, however, was an object found during an expedition into the underground city beneath Giza, and said to be "a multi-faceted spherical crystalline object the size of a baseball, that was brought up from the city, and its supernatural nature was demonstrated at a recent conference in Australia. Deep within the solid object are various hieroglyphs that slowly turn over like pages of a book when mentally requested to do so by whoever holds the object. That remarkable item revealed an unknown form of technology and was recently sent to NASA in the USA for analysis."
Ancient cities under the sands of Giza

Even just 20 years ago we wouldn't have believed that such an object could possibly exist, but now nearly everyone is familiar with the capabilities of mini USB drives that hold several Gigabytes of information. So a baseball sized object of even more advanced technology could certainly be capable of holding all the knowledge of the ancients. Think about it - an object that, unlike parchments, books, and inscriptions, would almost surely withstand the test of time and the elements.

The abobe linked website states that a documentary film of the expedition to the city beneath Giza, titled Chamber of the Deep is said to have been made and subsequently shown to private audiences. It was originally intended to release the footage to the general public, but for some reason it was withheld. I guess we know the reason for that! Revealing the existence of the crystalline object, and its capabilities, to the public would shatter the very foundations of historic and scientific knowledge, and of course we can't have that, now, can we?


Rick
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  #184  
Old 03-24-2010, 09:28 PM
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Aaron, regarding that stone tablet and other findings regarding Atlantis and Mu you mention, and noticing how you have studied these things further, you might find following interesting - and I may sound like a broken record, but if you can take a brief moment to check the pages starting from 129/130 (134/135 in the e-book).

E-book

Interestingly, here again is described the Maya-Atlantean link.

‘They went to Greece where they founded a small colony and the Greek alphabet corresponds almost exactly to that of Mu. ‘Finally they arrived in a land that the natives called Aranka and which you know as Egypt. There, they established a strong colony with a great man, by the name of Toth, at its head. Laws were established which embodied the beliefs of Mu and the organisational principles of Atlantis. Improved plants, new techniques for raising cattle, new methods of cultivation, pottery and weaving were all introduced. ‘Toth was a great man of Atlantis, extremely knowledgeable materially as well as spiritually. He founded villages, built temples and, just before his death, he had constructed what you now call the Great Pyramid. Each time these great colonisers judged that the new colony had the potential to become great, materially and spiritually, they would construct a special pyramid - a tool - as you were able to see for yourself on Mu. In Egypt, they constructed the Great Pyramid on the same model as the Pyramid of Savanasa, but on a scale three times reduced. These pyramids are unique and, in order to fulfil their role as a ‘tool’, their dimensions and specifications must be precisely adhered to, as well as their orientation.’ ‘Do you know how much time it took?’ ‘It was quite fast - just nine years, for Toth and his master architects knew the secrets of anti-gravitation from Mu, and the secrets for cutting the rock and using - let’s call them ‘electro-ultra-sounds’.’

On the same page is another description of "Nagas" from Mu that had colonised Burma / India, which is interesing regarding the "Naacal" tablets Churchward found...

It's also interesting that there is a practice called "Nagualism" in Mesoamerican tradition, whose teachings actually have a very eastern philoshopy type spiritual vibe to them if you dig deeper. Stories of these can be found in Carlos Castanedas books for example.

Anyway getting back to aforementioned book, it suggests that Atlantis and Mu were indeed separate continents. This seems appropriate as the Mayan civilization resides between the supposed locations. Both these continents seemed to suffer the same fate of going under water due to cataclysms..

What is the absolute truth however, go figure.. I just present this here as one possible link.
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  #185  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:19 AM
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Hi Aaron;

Quote:
As a very interesting note, Gurdjieff met a Catholic Priest on his journey's
and this priest showed him a pre-sand map of Egypt! This isn't very well
known and I don't know if there are any copies of it. I thought Gurdjieff
copied the map - been a while. I have the survivor story "monument"
somewhere in my Gurdjieff archive, which I don't even know where it is
at the moment I'll post when I find it because it is very interesting.
He says he made a copy;
Quote:
How the Pre-sand Map Was Copied

Both the prince and Gurdjieff made copies of the map, but not by the same method. Could this have any significance? In telling Gurdjieff about the copy made by the prince, the priest said, “We spread the parchment out on the table, and the prince added water to some powdered alabaster he had brought with him; after covering the parchment with oil he spread the alabaster over it. Several minutes later he removed the alabaster, wrapped it up in a piece of old djedjin I gave him, paid me two hundred pounds, and went away.”

Gurdjieff’s copy, however, was made by tracing the map with oiled paper. “One evening, two days before our departure, while the priest was absent, I got into his room again and took the parchment from the chest. I took it to our room and throughout the night Pogossian and I traced all the details of the map, after having covered it with oiled paper.”
Quote:
There seems to be a connection, for in Egypt hieroglyphs inscribed on the inner walls of the Temple of Edfu tell the story of Seven Sages who sailed to Egypt from an island known as the “Homeland of the Primeval Ones.” Could these walls be speaking about Atlantis?
Pondering Gurdjieff’s Map - a knol by The Gurdjieff Journal

Check out the last 2 pics. of the hieroglyphs in the top row in the link below. Are these what you saw?

Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization

Al
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  #186  
Old 03-25-2010, 06:05 AM
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Hi Rick;

I find nothing credible about Tony Bushby or his books/articles which are what is in the link you supplied, Ancient cities under the sands of Giza.
As usual any evidence to support any claim has mysteriously disappeared, and some of them are pretty wild.

By the way I'm pretty sure that engraving of the pyramid in the lake is a fake. I have seen engravings of that period and they are of pretty fine detail, not the hazy mess pictured. Also note he gives no reference as to who did it or published it so it could be checked out.

Here's an interesting thought. If it were accurate how did they get those monstrous figures on top of the pyramids in the lake? How did they build them in the middle of a lake? That's harder than on dry sand.

As for Herodotus you don't suppose those ancient Egyptians could have been pulling his leg about those underground rooms, do you? Or even worse, would they lie to impress him?

The biggest problem I see with any claim of subterranean vaults, tunnels, etc. is the water table. It currently is at about 23' below the surface. As you state, which seems to be correct according to some ancient writings, Lake Moeris was much closer to the Great Pyramid in earlier days and therefore the water table would have been even higher.

And also with the annual flooding of the Nile how could they have kept the water out while building all these places, esp. a series of tunnels 30 miles long under the Nile and the lake, or palaces 250' tall, not to mention the effects of earthquakes, etc. How would they keep the ceiling from caving in, esp. under the river and lake beds?

As to all the current speculation about secret passages, etc., that's all it is;speculation. Much of it is based around Edgar Cayce's so-called prophesies, yet even a team from their own group found no caverns under the paws of the Sphinx after drilling where readings suggested there might be some.

Check Hawass's website and he tells what they have found in various new "tunnels" around the Sphinx which have been hyped lately; nothing. They hit water in at least one of them at 12'. The hypsters take readings which suggest geological anomalies and in their "reports" turn them into evidence of vaults, etc. which have always turned out to be nothing more than anomalies.

drhawass.com - Zahi Hawass
While I certainly don't take what he says as gospel, his comments are confirmed by other reliable sources.

So while they may find other tombs, vaults, etc. buried by sand over time just as the Sphinx was nearly buried, I don't think they will find anything resembling cities, palaces, temple complexes or 30 mile tunnels.

Al
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  #187  
Old 03-25-2010, 06:07 AM
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thanks!

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Originally Posted by jtstatic View Post
check the pages starting from 129/130 (134/135 in the e-book).

E-book
Thanks, I'll check it out. Interesting that this place always sounds similar
in all the languages.
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  #188  
Old 03-25-2010, 06:23 AM
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Temple of Horus at Edfu

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
Pondering Gurdjieff’s Map - a knol by The Gurdjieff Journal

Check out the last 2 pics. of the hieroglyphs in the top row in the link below. Are these what you saw?

Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization

Al
Al,

It is the Temple of Horus at Edfu!

Of course it is just a guess that the lost land or whatever they
want to call it is Atlantis, but it is another one of those mysteries
that appears to fit the description of the sunken land where
survivors left and came to start a new world.

But with multiple corroborated stories and evidence around the
world pointing to the same story and time frame, it certainly
seems to strengthen the argument for one or more sunken
continents or islands with an advanced civilization that escaped
and restarted elsewhere.
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  #189  
Old 03-25-2010, 06:46 AM
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Hi jtstatic;

Where did the story of Mu/Atlantis come from and the supposed connection to Egypt?

Mu (lost continent) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org

/wiki/Augustus_Le_Plongeon


Maya script - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al
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  #190  
Old 03-25-2010, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtstatic View Post
Aaron, regarding that stone tablet and other findings regarding Atlantis and Mu you mention, and noticing how you have studied these things further, you might find following interesting - and I may sound like a broken record, but if you can take a brief moment to check the pages starting from 129/130 (134/135 in the e-book).

E-book
The part about superman family after that made it rather questionable though. However:
"And to Solomon (We subjected) the wind, its morning (stride from sunrise till midnoon) was a month's (journey), and its afternoon (stride from the midday decline of the sun to sunset) was a month's (journey i.e. in one day he could travel two months' journey)."
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  #191  
Old 03-25-2010, 08:02 AM
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Sucahyo, if you mean the proposed Hebrew connection, I agree with you, still I always find this particular book interesting and some of the connections it makes, even if it's figment of the writers imagination.

I also admit I haven't yet studied all the aspects yet, that's why I'd like to here second opinion from those who have apparently studied these things more than I have.

Antiquer, thx for the links, also I appreciate your critical approach, it brings some needed balance to this thread.
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  #192  
Old 03-25-2010, 02:08 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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I agree..

I have to agree with them on the contrary viewpoint you have Al. The problem with Hawass is that when he went to prove nothing was below the sphinx he drilled at an angle that would not have brought him much below what they fixed at the paws. So saying that is proof is a blatant misconception. You can clearly see that they were drilling into what they knew was only the paw below the sand. Check the angle and the distance from the paw. He knew he was drilling just below the sand and thats not where they said the portal was. It was much lower. Remember the misdirection approach or slight of hand. They wanted it to appear that they were looking and drilled only into what they knew was solid rock. Like drilling into the casing above the access..
So Hawass is only trying to disprove the theory by some slight of hand trickery. Instead of drilling to the specifications of the radar results. I mean why would you drill unless you had the radar team right there to show where it was?
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  #193  
Old 03-25-2010, 02:34 PM
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Hi folks, Hi Aaron, im not an expert in ancient things, but there was a movie called ' Krull ' i believe and the guy in the movie carried something very similar to that cross you showed. Seems yet again hollywood knows things, or whoever writes the movies.
peace love light
Tyson
edit: ok just checked, it actually has five blades or points, but looks similar.
the 'glaive'... man i loved that movie.
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  #194  
Old 03-25-2010, 07:42 PM
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Hi Rick;

Don't know if you have seen this, but it has a lot of good info. on the Sphinx, complete with drawings of the tunnels, etc. under it.

Sphinx Facts and Schematics - Crystalinks
Thanks, Al. The drawings do appear to be accurate in that they do show some of what has actually been found beneath and between the Sphinx and the pyramids. An early Rosicrucian/Masonic drawing is also said to show these details, including the large vertical shafts known as "Campbell's Tomb." These shafts are said to extend downwards 125 feet to several large chambers, one of which has another shaft extending to a chamber or chambers further below. The lower area, when found, was partially flooded, and contained a 12 foot sarcphagus, while another chamber is said to have contained several sarcophagi that were 18 feet!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
There was also a program on PBS recently that was good. They talked about how the body and esp. the paws look out of proportion due to layers having been added over time by various Pharaohs to preserve it, and how the head is made of different limestone which is softer or harder, can't remember which. Perhaps with your skills you can find it on their website.
Yes, there have been many alterations and restorations to the Sphinx. The water erosion damage is seen beneath the layers of restorative repair, and where these layers have fallen off. I see, in the link that you provided, they do mention that, "The head of the Sphinx was altered many times by the Pharaohs," and that "The head has been replaced by several different heads - the original the head of a feline cat." The article also states that, "Many believe that the original head was that of the lion and the Sphinx dates to the Age of Leo - 12,000 years ago." These statements would support my reasoning in post # 168.
http://www.energeticforum.com/89648-post168.html

Thanks also for your Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization link in post #185. That article lends further credence to the Giza complex having been constructed around 10,500 BC, and offers compelling evidence that the Sumerians were actually ancient Egyptians who had left Giza because of the cataclysmic events that occurred there. Now going back to post #168, the Sumerians told of the Anunnaki being those whose secret abode was an underground place which very well could have been Giza. They also wrote that the Anunnaki had come from the Orion belt, which could explain why the Giza complex was planned to mirror the constellation Orion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
The biggest problem I see with any claim of subterranean vaults, tunnels, etc. is the water table. It currently is at about 23' below the surface. As you state, which seems to be correct according to some ancient writings, Lake Moeris was much closer to the Great Pyramid in earlier days and therefore the water table would have been even higher. And also with the annual flooding of the Nile how could they have kept the water out while building all these places, esp. a series of tunnels 30 miles long under the Nile and the lake, or palaces 250' tall, not to mention the effects of earthquakes, etc. How would they keep the ceiling from caving in, esp. under the river and lake beds?



Do you know what the level of ground water was 12,000 to 20,000 years ago, when all of this was likely built? And who said anything about a 30 mile tunnel under the Nile? Of course there is bedrock beneath the Nile, and so why would it be implausible that a tunnel could in fact be constructed beneath the Nile? Consider the Holland Tunnel beneath the Hudson River. The last I knew, that hadn't caved in yet. Sure, there would be some amount of water seepage in any tunnel beneath a body of water, but it could be pumped as we pump water from the Holland Tunnel, or simply drained to another lower lying area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
Here's an interesting thought. If it were accurate how did they get those monstrous figures on top of the pyramids in the lake? How did they build them in the middle of a lake? That's harder than on dry sand.
Who's saying that they were built in the lake? It is likely that they were built long before the lake rose to such a level, which was probably the result of either heavy rains predating the Ice Age, or the melting of receding glaciers following the period of the last Ice Age. My own concept regarding all of this is that this catastrophic period of heavy inundation was the reason why Giza was abandoned by the learned ones, and later discovered by other peoples who knew little or nothing about what lay beneath Giza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
As to all the current speculation about secret passages, etc., that's all it is;speculation. Check Hawass's website and he tells what they have found in various new "tunnels" around the Sphinx which have been hyped lately; nothing.
There's a lot more to this than mere speculation, Al. Throughout recorded history there have been various accounts of such passages, and not just from what Edgar Cayce said. I would take anything that Haw-ass says with a grain of salt. He is Egypt's chief obstructionist, and denier of anything and everything that would reveal truths about Giza. A magazine article, written and published in 1935 by Hamilton M. Wright, dealt with an extraordinary discovery under the sands of Giza that is today denied. The article was accompanied by original photographs provided by Dr Selim Hassan, the leader of the scientific investigative team from the University of Cairo who made the discovery. It said: "We have discovered a subway used by the ancient Egyptians of 5000 years ago. It passes beneath the causeway leading between the second Pyramid and the Sphinx. It provides a means of passing under the causeway from the Cheops Pyramid to the Pyramid of Chephren [Khephren]. From this subway, we have unearthed a series of shafts leading down more than 125 feet, with roomy courts and side chambers." So at least one prominent Egyptologist has admitted that the passages and chambers exist, and the 125 foot shafts that he spoke of are the ones known as the "Campbell's Tomb" shafts that I described at the beginning of this thread, and which were shown in the diagrams supplied by the Sphinx Facts and Schematics - Crystalinks link that you provided. You yourself stated that the link provided "a lot of good info on the Sphinx, complete with drawings of the tunnels, etc. under it." So why tout something as good info, and then later state that the tunnels and chambers are purely speculation?


Just wondering, Al, why it is that you seem to be so dead set against acceptance of any knowledge or theories about Giza that do not subscribe to popularized beliefs? I'm not knocking your beliefs, of course, and do respect your point of view, but I am just wondering why you appear to choose to accept what we have been told, rather than to diligently question it. I have been questioning authority, and conventional "wisdom" all my life, so I will probably never do otherwise, and it is highly unlikely that anyone can persuade me to think differently than I do, or to abandon what I feel are the logical assumptions that can be drawn. So here again, we will probably just have to agree to disagree on most of whatever we say in this thread. But that's okay, especially if it helps us to learn more and eventually unravel the actual truth.


Best to you,

Rick
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  #195  
Old 03-25-2010, 08:36 PM
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YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

btw, the Magical Egypt series can be found on youtube. I thought the viewers of this thread might find it entertaining as well, I know I did
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:28 AM
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Hi sucahyo;

Quote:
When explorers and archaeologists first set sail for Egypt at the beginning of the 19th century they were not just on a quest to uncover the exotic civilization of the pharaohs. With trowel in one hand and Bible in the other, they were also hoping to find proof of holy scripture. Biblical Archaeology was born in Egypt with the search for Joseph and the Seven-year Famine, the Ten Plagues, Moses and the Exodus. However, the unfortunate reality is that, after more than 150 years of excavations, not one scrap of archaeological evidence for the Israelite Sojourn in Egypt has come to light. So, is Biblical Archaeology now in crisis?
ISRAELITES IN EGYPT - Is there evidence that the Israelites once lived in Egypt as the Bible says? And has Joseph's original tomb been found? - ChristianAnswers.Net

The Plain Truth: Egyptian paper: Coins found bearing name of Joseph

Quote:
Tomb of the Patriarchs
Photo copyrighted. All rights reserved.

The Bible says that Sarah, Abraham, Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob were buried in Hebron, in a cave called the Cave of Machpelah, purchased by Abraham (Gen. 23).

Traditionally, this cave has been located below the Haram el-Khalil ("sacred precinct of the friend of the merciful One, God") in Hebron, today a Muslim mosque. References as early as the Hellenistic period (2nd century B.C.) testify that this is the authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs. The cave was explored by the Augustine Canons in 1119, at which time they claim to have found the bones of the Patriarchs.
Canons Regular - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BIBLICAL BURIAL SITES - Have the burial sites of any people in the Bible been found? - ChristianAnswers.Net

In the last 3-4 years I have twice seen a documentary on Egypt which showed a recently discovered tomb of an ancient Egyptian of some importance.
On the tomb wall is a hieroglyph of Joseph on his throne as Pharaoh. It is clearly identified as such by the writing which accompanies it, including Joseph's cartouche. I have not found it on the web, maybe it's too new.

Al
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:33 AM
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Messages of Ossama Alsaadawi - رسائل أسامة السعداوي
Quote:
Mr. Don Baron, Canada, posted the following quote:
> The Use of Money. In the Old Testament narration Joseph's brothers are said to have used money to pay for provisions but, before sending them on their way, Joseph restored 'every man's money into his sack' (Genesis 42:25). It used to be thought that money did not come into use in Egypt until around 950 BC and the authors of the Genesis story were reflecting the customs of their own era when they referred to money rather than payment in kind. However, recent studies have found evidence to support the idea that, at least from the reign of Amenhotep II (c. 1436-1413 BC), sixth ruler of the 18th dynasty, pieces of metal - gold, silver and copper, of a fixed weight or value - were used as a means of exchange. Abd El-Mohsen Bakir, the Egyptian scholar, makes the point in his book Slavery in Pharaonoic Egypt that a reference in a legal document of the 18th Dynasty indicates that 'two debens [about 90 grams] of silver' were paid as the price of a slave. The role that money played in the brothers' grain purchase again conforms with the situation in Egypt during the New Kingdom. (end of quote from book) <

Canons Regular - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BIBLICAL BURIAL SITES - Have the burial sites of any people in the Bible been found? - ChristianAnswers.Net

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Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
In the last 3-4 I have twice seen a documentary on Egypt which showed a recently discovered tomb of an ancient Egyptian of some importance.
On the tomb wall is a hieroglyph of Joseph on his throne as Pharaoh. It is clearly identified as such by the writing which accompanies it, including Joseph's cartouche. I have not found it on the web, maybe it's too new.



Joseph has curly hair?
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jtstatic View Post
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

btw, the Magical Egypt series can be found on youtube. I thought the viewers of this thread might find it entertaining as well, I know I did
Wow. Very important find there. Looks like this debate is an old one lol. Excellent videos showing all the connections we have here and more. Very good series of videos.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:57 PM
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other interesting things

One of the neatest properties of the Great Pyramid is the concave sides.
When it was covered in white alabaster, at noon on the summer solstice???,
the pyramid casts no shadow.

The sunlight would come down and hit all 4 concave sides like mirrors and
a beam of light would be focused in 4 directions that is said to be visible
from hundreds of miles away.

--------------------------------------------------------

With many of the pyramid experiments - other than showing its natural
dehydration/preservation aspects, plants grown in the same geometry
gravitation towards the center and 1/3 up from the base, which is exactly
where the King's Chamber is.

Seems that energetically, that is where the energy is concentrated -
inside of the King's Kofer. It is a fairly common idea that the Kofer was
used for initiation purposes and laying down in the pyramid, the person
is subject to that high stress potential (from the heavy granite stones
causing the piezeo electric high voltage stress) - and could possibly
transport either physically or mentally the person elsewhere.

My friend has been involved with the pyramid research for years. He was
with a small group that bribed the guards to let them spend some time in
the King's chamber. He had one near death experience from an accident
or heart attack, I can't remember - so he knew what it was like. When
laying down to meditate in the Kofer, he said he had an experience that
was like a near death experience.

---------------------------------------

Then in the Great Hall, there are marks along the bottom side - 1 year is
1 inch and it goes from around xBC??? I think up to 2012 timeframe. Different marks for different significant moments in human history and ones
correlating to the world wars, industrial revolution, etc... and at the end,
is where the path goes down or up showing that mankind has a choice
at this time coming up very soon.
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:06 AM
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Hi Aaron;

Quote:
Then in the Great Hall, there are marks along the bottom side - 1 year is
1 inch and it goes from around xBC??? I think up to 2012 timeframe. Different marks for different significant moments in human history and ones
correlating to the world wars, industrial revolution, etc... and at the end,
is where the path goes down or up showing that mankind has a choice
at this time coming up very soon.
Just wondering where you got this info.?

Al
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:01 AM
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The Great Pyramid Timeline

Hi Al,

I thought it was a commonly known. I'll have to find the reference(s)
somewhere. Of course commonly known by some circles of people that
believe things about the pyramid that the conventional researchers do not.

Anyone else know what I'm referring to? It is like a time line with significant
years marked.

Searched a bit - couldn't find my references.

But this is talking about the same thing. I guess it ends at the King's Chamber
and not the up/down split according to this page:
Great Pyramid (stone calendar) - 2012 Wiki
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Old 03-27-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
The Bible says that Sarah, Abraham, Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob were buried in Hebron, in a cave called the Cave of Machpelah, purchased by Abraham (Gen. 23).
Say Hello To The Hebrew Patriarchs

One of the most complete narrative accounts of Hebrew descent and marriage occurs in Genesis, in the details of the lives of the patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

These well known legends provide illustrations of some basic principles of the ancient Hebrew Social Order along with some contradictory evidence on the dynamics of endogamy, inheritance and succession.

Primogeniture is the common law right of the first born son to inherit the entire estate, to the exclusion of younger siblings. It is the tradition of inheritance by the first-born of the entirety of a parent's wealth, estate or office; or in the absence of children, by collateral relatives, in order of seniority of the collateral line.

The Old Testament account of Hebrew origins begins with Terah of the Chaldean city of Ur (in Mesopotamia) and his three sons: Haran, Nahor, and Abraham. (Genesis 11:24-32). Haran has a son, Lot, by an unspecified wife. Nahor marries Milkah, who is noted as Haran's daughter. Whether the Haran mentioned here is Nahor's brother is unclear, since Nahor's father-in-law is identified as the father of Milkah and Iscah, but not of Lot.

Abraham is married to Sarah. No mention is given of Sarah's parentage, but later in Genesis passages, Abraham tells both Pharaoh (what was his name) (Genesis 12:10-20) and King Abimelech (Genesis 20) that Sarah is his sister to avoid the displeasure of these rulers, both of whom show a sexual interest in her. When Abimelech confronts him with his deception, Abraham answers that Sarah is indeed his wife but also his half sister by Terah's second marriage.

The three brothers experience divergent fates. Haran dies; Abraham migrates to Canaan, taking Haran's son, Lot, with him; Nahor remains in Mesopotamia, fathering one son, Bethuel, who in turn has two children Laban and Rebekah. (Genesis 22)

In Canaan, God promises Abraham that he will become the father of a great nation, but Abraham and Sarah fail to have children. Sarah gives her husband her Egyptian hand maid, Hagar, who bears a son, Ishmael.
Sarah finally gives birth to Isaac. Although Ishmael is his eldest son, Abraham designates Isaac as his heir and successor. Isaac's descendants continue in the line of Hebrew descent. Ishmael's form a separate and distinct people, the Ishmaelites. (Genesis 16).

In the meantime, Lot has separated from Abraham and gone to Sodom.
Sodom (and Gomorrah) are destroyed because of their iniquities,
Lot, because of his virtue is allowed to escape with his wife and two daughters. Lot’s wife dies along the way. Lot, flees into the hills with his daughters, who trick him into sleeping with them. Each daughter gives birth to a son, who become the ancestors of the "accursed" Moabites and Ammonites. (Genesis 19)

Isaac grows to manhood, and when he is ready to marry, Abraham and Sarah make contact with their kins-people in Mesopotamia to avoid a marriage with the local Canaanites. Isaac is quickly linked up with Rebekah, his patrilateral parallel cousin. Isaac and Rebekah have twin sons, Esau, the eldest by a few minutes, and Jacob. Esau trades his birthright to Jacob for food. Esau later marries two local Canaanite women, who displease his parents, Esau regains favor by marrying his parallel cousin, Ishmael's daughter, who is referred to as Mahatath in one passage and Bashemath in another. Isaac dies, but just before his death is deceived by Rebekah and Jacob and gives his blessing and patrimony to Jacob rather than to his eldest son.

Jacob flees to his mother's, brother's (Laban's) house in Mesopotamia; Fearing Esau's wrath. Jacob contracts with Laban to work for seven years as bride service for his (parallel) cousin Rachel. After the term of service, Laban insists that Jacob marry Leah, his eldest daughter, Jacob has to serve another seven years to eventually earn Rachel's hand (Genesis 24-29).
Jacob returns to Canaan and is reconciled with Esau. Esau becomes the ancestor of a separate people the Edomites.

Jacob becomes the progenitor of the Hebrew people through twelve sons born from Leah, Rachel, and their two handmaids.
Each son, except Joseph, becomes the ancestor of a tribe of Israel, which bears his name.

Joseph's descendants are divided into two tribes, Manasseh and Ephraim, after his two sons, as a consequence their adoption by Jacob (Genesis 48).
In his final blessing, Jacob gives special recognition to Ephraim and his progeny, in spite of Joseph's protest that it should be rightly be given to Manasseh, as the eldest son. In addition to his twelve sons, Jacob also fathers a daughter, Dinah (Genesis 34). No account is given of any of Dinah's children or descendants.

Themes for discussion
1.The divisions among the Israelites and their immediate neighbors and among the tribes of Israel are modeled after a segmentary descent system.
2.The normal succession rule of primogeniture is consistently broken;
a.Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are youngest sons but assume the role of exclusive Hebrew ancestors at the expense of disinherited older brothers.
b.the special prominence of younger sons is followed in subsequent genealogical accounts, notably in the cases of Joseph, Ephraim, and (in a later cycle) David.
3.The delineation of the Israelites as a favored peoples is determined through a process of lineage endogamy (in-marriage) rather than primogeniture through:
a.Abraham's marriage to his half sister, Sarah,
b.Isaac's marriage to his patrilateral parallel cousin, Rebekah,
c.Jacob's marriage to his patrilateral parallel cousins, Leah and Rachel.
4.Collateral lines are disqualified because of exogamy (out-marriage), as in the cases of Ishmael, the son of an Egyptian, and Esau, who marries Canaanite wives.
5.Collateral lines are also disqualified because of incest, as in the case of Lot and his daughters.
6.Incestuous marriages also occur within the main line of succession
a.Abraham marries his half sister,
b.Jacob marries two sisters,
c.Judah fathers children with his daughter-in-law
.

The Giza Pyramid is as tall as a forty story building.

- Schpankme
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Hi Al,

I thought it was a commonly known. I'll have to find the reference(s)
somewhere. Of course commonly known by some circles of people that
believe things about the pyramid that the conventional researchers do not.

Anyone else know what I'm referring to? It is like a time line with significant
years marked.

Searched a bit - couldn't find my references.

But this is talking about the same thing. I guess it ends at the King's Chamber
and not the up/down split according to this page:
Great Pyramid (stone calendar) - 2012 Wiki
Hi Aaron,

The timeline is in several books,

Here's one Gods of the Dawn: The Message of the Pyramids and the True Stargate by Peter Lemesurier
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:21 PM
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Keely

"the author mentions John Ernst Worrell Keely( who was an admitted con man) as an inventor of a vibratory device that would shatter concrete in order to support one of his positions."

Al,

A jack hammer is a vibratory device that shatters concrete!

Actually, I know of someone with evidence that just about everything Keely ever did was a
a fraud and not just with the air/hydraulic system under the floor of his lab. It would make
the Keely fans cry to know it. I don't know if that person will ever release it but it is the final
nail in the coffin for Keely.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:00 AM
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Hi Schpankme;

Quote:
Say Hello To The Hebrew Patriarchs
So what is the point of this post, what was the source, and what does a plastic switch plate with an image of Jesus? and 2 children have to do with it?

Al
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:16 AM
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Hi Aaron;

Quote:
A jack hammer is a vibratory device that shatters concrete!
Good one! However, I don't think you could use it to shatter concrete in mid-air as Andrew Collins suggested.

But you, sir, have been caught disseminating false information. There are no marks along the wall of the Great Hall indicating anything.

Al
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:13 AM
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dig deeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
Hi Aaron;



Good one! However, I don't think you could use it to shatter concrete in mid-air as Andrew Collins suggested.

But you, sir, have been caught disseminating false information. There are no marks along the wall of the Great Hall indicating anything.

Al
I did read on multiple occasions that there are markings of all these
historically significant dates. I don't know if they are supposed to be
on the wall or on the floor but it is the primary point of topic that was
addressed to indicate all the significant dates.

1 inch equals a year - that was discussed quite a bit - dig deeper. Unless
you go there and look for yourself, you probably cannot say they are not
there.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:19 AM
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The Scored Lines



Those are dates based on physical structure of different points in the
pyramid but there are something called the "scored lines" which are not
just at the beginning but in several other places.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:11 AM
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Hi Rick;

More articles on the Sphinx, one a good examination of erosion etc., one a different idea on what it was originally.

Redating the Sphinx: Reflections on the Geology

What was the Sphinx? | New Dawn : The World's Most Unusual Magazine

And here is Herodotus commenting on the Great Pyramid; apparently there was writing on the exterior walls which confirmed Khufu built it and how much he spent.

Herodotus on Khufu

Quote:
Just wondering, Al, why it is that you seem to be so dead set against acceptance of any knowledge or theories about Giza that do not subscribe to popularized beliefs? I'm not knocking your beliefs, of course, and do respect your point of view...
Because I think the weight of the real archeological evidence/knowledge supports my beliefs on the subject of what the Egyptians did/did not do, which is pretty much what the mainstream of Egyptology believes. And, I'm as stubborn as you are.
So to paraphrase a well known expression,"Go ahead and knock me baby, I can take it."

But writings and speculation by authors of any kind based on twisted facts, mythology,psychic readings, mis-interpretations, mis-quoting of facts, quoting dubious sources as factual, etc. is hype/spin intended to sell books and enrich their bank account and is not evidence.

I do believe there were races of men on Earth before the current one. In Genesis God told Adam and Eve to replenish the Earth and there are really ancient artifacts which support that. But there are no records or hard evidence of any of them in the last 10,000-15,000 years having any technology more advanced than the early Egyptians. None of the other megalithic sites show any; all there is are glyphs of the gods they made up and attributed certain aspects to. Here is a sample of Sumerian mythology, which is so touted and hyped lately;

Sumerian Myths

Hardly a tale to inspire belief in these ancient "gods", much less build a theory on how advanced they were, or how they inspired and taught a people to do great things. The Mayans, Incas, etc. were no different; different people's, different "gods" and mythology, no mention of advanced anything from earlier races.

Why is it so hard to believe the Egyptians went from their first true pyramid (Djosers) to the Great Pyramid in about 100 years? We went from the first Wright Brothers airplane in 1913 to going to the moon in approx. 65 years and that's a lot harder than cutting and shaping rocks. And I heard no talk of gods helping us along the way (although I think He did to some extent), and we did not devote the entire country to this one task. We also were not being pushed by a maniacal, ego-driven Pharaoh and his kin intent on building his monuments and tomb at whatever cost.

So that is some of the reasons/reasoning behind what I believe. Of course you or anyone else is free to believe what they wish and I respect that right and your opinions. You asked about me and that is the point here. I repeat, I welcome any real evidence from any point of view. I sincerely hope the cave complex exploration or continuing archeology will turn up something, regardless of which point of view it supports.

Until next time,

Al
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:33 AM
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Answer to Al, part 1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
Hi Rick;

More articles on the Sphinx, one a good examination of erosion etc., one a different idea on what it was originally.

Redating the Sphinx: Reflections on the Geology

What was the Sphinx? | New Dawn : The World's Most Unusual Magazine
Both the above linked articles are quite speculative in nature. I did enjoy the second one, as it does agree with my theory that the sphinx head was originally an animal head that was later reduced to a much smaller size and then recarved into human form. I don't quite agree that the animal was a jackal, as he claims, and I think that what appears now as the spread out backdrop of an Egyptian headdress, was probably originally part of a lion's mane. As seen in the below photo, this seems to fit better than the author's theory of the head being that of a "wild dog."


I did, however, like the author's way of thinking as to the conventional views of many Egyptologists. In this regard, he expresses my own view by saying, "I have a pathologically anti-herd mentality. All you have to do is tell me 'everybody knows' something, and I will instantly disbelieve it." I can't agree with the author, however, on his explanation as to the Sphinx erosion patterns. First, he fails to recognize the vertical erosion patterns that exist on the Sphinx. Secondly, while acknowledging that sand accumulated around the Sphinx, and within its walled enclosure, or "moat" (which would have acted to protect the Sphinx and the walls by preventing water flow erosion), the author states that, "The vertical erosion on the sides of the pit, especially the south side, is because of the continual dredging of the Moat due to the windblown sand accumulating there. Every time the Moat was dredged, water poured down in torrents onto the sides.." Now you can take a bucket of sand, and saturate it with water to simulate this sand and water filled "moat." If you excavate, or "dredge" the sand, you are at the same time gradually removing and reducing the level of the water, so the effect of the water reduction is gentle and gradual. If the water level remains constant, or rises again due to seepage, the water effect is either nil or gradual. So where, then, did the water come from that "poured down in torrents onto the sides.."?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
And here is Herodotus commenting on the Great Pyramid; apparently there was writing on the exterior walls which confirmed Khufu built it and how much he spent.

Herodotus on Khufu
The quoted writings of Herodotus, from your link, say nothing of writings on the exterior walls of the Great Pyramid. It only states that there was an inscription made on the pyramid, which could have been made anywhere, and at any time. Such an inscription was not offered by Herodotus as proof that Khufu built the Great Pyramid, and his account only relates what he was offered by the Egyptians as their account of how and when the pyramid was built. I would say that the explanation was either fantasized to Herodotus by the Egyptians, or that, as you postulated in an earlier post, they simply lied to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
Because I think the weight of the real archeological evidence/knowledge supports my beliefs on the subject of what the Egyptians did/did not do, which is pretty much what the mainstream of Egyptology believes. And, I'm as stubborn as you are.
So to paraphrase a well known expression,"Go ahead and knock me baby, I can take it."
As I said before, Al, I respect your opinions and don't mean to knock you. I simply disagree with you on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
But writings and speculation by authors of any kind based on twisted facts, mythology,psychic readings, mis-interpretations, mis-quoting of facts, quoting dubious sources as factual, etc. is hype/spin intended to sell books and enrich their bank account and is not evidence.
Okay, just for a moment then let's take everything written by modern man on the subject out of the equation. The oldest remaining inscribed chronological records of the Egyptians themselves state that their pre dynastic history goes back to a period somewhere in the range of 36,000 years ago. John Anthony West points this out in the first 2 and 1/2 minutes of the video YouTube - Magical Egypt II 1/5 and explains that modern scholars, while knowing this, ascribe this to "fantasy and romance of the ancient, primitive mind." John then goes on to say that, "this assumes that contemporary scholars know more about ancient Egyptian history than the ancient Egyptians themselves." To me, that is precisely the reason why we should rely on the earliest known records, rather than the generally accepted consensus of opinion of the Egyptologists that you prefer to follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
I do believe there were races of men on Earth before the current one. In Genesis God told Adam and Eve to replenish the Earth and there are really ancient artifacts which support that. But there are no records or hard evidence of any of them in the last 10,000-15,000 years having any technology more advanced than the early Egyptians.
Now that depends upon whether you are talking about the early dynastic period Egyptians, who you claim to be the early Egyptians, or the pre-dynastic ones who say their history goes back 36,000 or more years. If we are talking about the pre-dynastic Egyptians then I agree, but if you mean the Egyptians of 2,500 to 4,000 BC, then this would not be true. Proof of that lies in the Nabta Playa megalyth. This structure is an astronomical timekeeping calendar which has been carbon dated to around 6500 BC, and its layout would precisely point to the vernal equinox heliacal rising of 6 different stars in the Orion constellation during the period from 6500 BC to 5200 BC. What is even more astounding about this finding is that while the center circle of stones of this megalythic structure are precisely aligned to stones placed at considerable distance from them, the distances themselves are proportional to the actual distances of the stars in relationship with one another and to Earth, wherein 1 meter of a stone's placement is equal to 0.799 light years of astrophysical star distance. So these ancients had a definite and incredibly precise knowledge of these distances and relationships, and the 26,000 year precessional cycle, and had it at a time that predates the supposed 2,500 BC construction of the Great Pyramid by thousands of years. It is only just recently that our own civilization has been able to accurately determine these star distances, and our findings closely match what the ancients already knew. In fact, the relatively small differences between our estimates and theirs can be attributable to the "margin of error" that we allow for our own distance measurements, which means that the ancient estimates could actually have been dead on. Here is a summary of two stars in the Orion Constellation:

Star Ancient estimate Our estimate

Bellatrix 254 Light Years 250 Light Years
Betelgeuse 428 Light Years 430 Light Years

Do your realize just how far away Betelgeuse would be? The distance that light travels in 428 years is equal to the following calculations:

Speed of light = 186,000 miles per second
1 year in seconds = 365 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds, or 31,536,000 seconds.
430 Light years in seconds = 430 x 31,536,000 or 13,560,480,000 seconds
Miles to Betelgeuse = 186,000 x 13,560,480,000, or 2,522,249,280,000,000 miles
In other words, this equals 2 quadrillion, 522 trillion, 249 billion, 280 million miles. Can you think of anything at all which would explain how these ancients possessed such astoundingly accurate and advanced knowledge of the solar system? If not, then you must reject the claims of contemporary scholars of Egyptology.

To learn more about Nabta Playa, watch these two videos:
YouTube - Magical Egypt III 2/6
YouTube - Magical Egypt III 3/6
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