Cosmic Induction Generator by John Polakowski

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2009, 03:55 PM
broli broli is offline
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I'm confused here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
All Naudin has shown is that this set up will act as a pulse motor in exactly the same way Bedini's does
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Completely different principle to Bedini's motors.
There are a lot of people say how this motor is a different kind of bedini motor and how they stole his idea blabla. The truth is this is not. The only similar thing is the attraction of the magnet to the core, just like a reluctance motor which have been around way before bedini. After that the action is quite different.

It should be more compared with PL's attraction motor. As the magnet moves away the effective permeability of the core increases, this causes the RATE change of current to decrease. But nothing in physics restricts us of using a solid state material which somehow can increase and decrease its permeability on demand OR whether it's a mechanical process. Both yield the same result. This immediately tells us that the kinetic energy that comes as a bonus with the permeability change is free. Because all the electrical energy became magnetic energy, and none of it was needed for the kinetic motion.

I was speculating on making a thread about explaining a simple thought experiment which concerns this.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2009, 04:04 PM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broli View Post
I'm confused here...
No reason to be confused. I am saying this is nothing like bedini's motors...

In the same post where I say Naudin is showing it act the same as a bedini motor I also say:

Quote:
it is worth noting that this is very different.
Whenever someone sees a new type of pulse motor they automatically think bedini. I'm trying to show this is completely different. I don't even think he is using the flyback to charge the batteries so this is absolutely nothing like Bedini.

Quote:
There are a lot of people say how this motor is a different kind of bedini motor and how they stole his idea blabla. The truth is this is not. The only similar thing is the attraction of the magnet to the core, just like a reluctance motor which have been around way before bedini. After that the action is quite different.
I completely agree.

Last edited by Sephiroth : 12-28-2009 at 04:07 PM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2009, 03:41 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Hi all,

I just managed to get my first orbo running.

/Hob
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2009, 04:18 PM
synchro synchro is offline
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Asymetrical reguaged rotor.

The Orbo's power is directionaly proportional to the strength of the rotor magnets, and the mass of the ferrite toroid core. The rotor strength can be maximized with Flynn's paralell path method. Three magnets are more powerfull in paralell between iron bars, then in series, or stacked end to end. Building a rotor this way, with two, four or six, sets of three magnets sandwiched between iorn bars, would magnify the rotor strength beyond the strength of the combined magnets. The diameter of the ferrite toroid would need to be increased in size to match the distance between the outside of the iron bars. The other approach would involve a twin coil in the middle between the two outside magnets, when the coils are momentarily charged the force equals four times the strength on one side and zero on the other. The force remains after the charge is removed.

Last edited by synchro : 12-30-2009 at 06:20 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2009, 07:15 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Hi all,

It was'nt working as well as i hoped. I was using a hall-switch and a Bedini-like circuit with my turntable, but i think i'll have to make another setup to get it right, this was just a hip-shot.

Here are 4 vids from Clanzer:
YouTube - What goes on in the Steorn SKDB Part 1

and a new from Naudin:
YouTube - The new Steorn motor v2 by Jean-Louis Naudin

/Hob
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 03:39 PM
Vortex Vortex is offline
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Naudin Replicates Steorn Orbo
The Steorn magnetic motor replication by JL Naudin

newest post at above link:
Jan 1st, 2010 : Measuring the current lag in the toroidal coils and fine tuning
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 03:44 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Another interesting channel on the subject:
YouTube - m1a9r9s9's Channel

/Hob
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 06:28 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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I dont understand what the big deal is about the ORBO. This new replication uses 20ma at @ 12 volts and has 750 RPM. I've had a 3-pole monopole using a modified bipolar circuit using only 9ma at over 1000rpm's.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 07:08 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I dont understand what the big deal is about the ORBO. This new replication uses 20ma at @ 12 volts and has 750 RPM. I've had a 3-pole monopole using a modified bipolar circuit using only 9ma at over 1000rpm's.
A motor without the Lenz-effect not interesting?
I'm thinking a stator with as many coils squeezed together as possible and oriented as in this picture would give some torque.
Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

/Hob
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 07:36 PM
jibbguy jibbguy is offline
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Was the Monopole what is popularly called "Lenzless", in that when you added torque to the rotor, did the total current draw not rise in proportion to the load torque?

Because according to JNL, the Steorn's does not. Meaning (in theory anyway) that if successfully "scaled up" to a large enough size to create enough rotor torque to begin with, a gen circuit could be added without lowering the RPM's significantly under load. And although this is certainly not the first time we here on the forums have heard such claims; it is a "big deal" to folks who didn't know that this was "possible" yet

Basically the size/power output of the added alternator circuit would be determined by how much torque it takes to stall the thing. From my limited understanding, this is not the case with the "vanilla" Bedini Monopole (athough BEMF capture can partially compensate, i would not call it the same as being truly "Lenzless"). The "battery recharge" thingie sounds to me like an additional "gravy" effect from Pulse Charging (and is probably related to other totally different factors); but i could be wrong there.

And the "no change in total current draw when torque is added to the rotor" effect is why it would be important even though the Steorn version shown in Dublin apparently has little torque to begin with: Simply as a "mind changer" to what COULD BE once fully developed... When proved valid (as JNL Labs' replication has helped to do), this could change EVERYTHING regarding motor/generators.

Remember, athough there are tons of "Lenzless" motor claims out there, where are they now? Shelved, suppressed, disappeared, mainly ignored outside of these forums? What percentage of the population knows they even exist? 0.01% maybe?

It's not who first invented it; it is who is first to gain greater Public Awareness.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I dont understand what the big deal is about the ORBO. This new replication uses 20ma at @ 12 volts and has 750 RPM. I've had a 3-pole monopole using a modified bipolar circuit using only 9ma at over 1000rpm's.
I agree. You can get a little DC muffin fan to do the same thing the ORBO is doing for about the same power. Torque is the key, not speed.
The toroid is interesting though.

Ted
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2010, 09:44 PM
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ren ren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
A motor without the Lenz-effect not interesting?
I'm thinking a stator with as many coils squeezed together as possible and oriented as in this picture would give some torque.
Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

/Hob


No it is, its just nothing new. Bedinis monopole has no lenz as well.

I dont think we can rightly accuse Steorn of STEALING Bedinis idea. But I do think the similarities are more than just attraction to the core (which is where the only torque is in this motor). For example, Naudin himself states that it runs off the same principle as the monopole, "broken symmetry" or "regauging". John Bedinis SG does the same thing, with a different core.

Steorn uses a toroid shaped core, which will no doubt have a stronger attraction to a neo magnet, being bigger than the core used on the Bedini motors. Steorns arrangement is similar to the "a" field used to spin the window motor I believe. Steorns brief pulse sent to the stator to "unlock" the magnetic lock is dissipated as heat withing the stator, he writes this himself. So there is no attempt to collect energy off the stator it appears.

Callahan over at OU.com has replicated his orbo, claiming his circuit works great. Guess what, its almost identical to JBs half sequential switch. He added a relay coil as a pickup for the trigger coil, otherwise its bog stock half sequential, with the isolating PNP at the top and darlington configured NPNs.

So in finishing, I think Steorns motor is interesting in its use of toroids, but not that different to what we have seen so far. Like Mark said, you can do similar things on a Bedini motor, AND recover energy from the input power, rather than measure how much is lost as heat. Ricks 3 pole kit has people pulling over 4000RPM @ 12v 100ma, charging batteries and running OUT OF PHASE GENERATOR COILS. With NEOS.

The only difference in my opinion is the use of a toroid, no induction on the toroid, and no attempt to recycle input power as far as we know.

For those who are bothering to build one of these, why not try the full bipolar switch to trigger this thing, with halls, and NSNSNS on the rotor? What would happen if the toroid was a toroidal transformer? Maybe you could get some recovery off the secondary of the toroidal?

Interesting, but to me there are more similarities that differences.

Regards

Last edited by ren : 01-02-2010 at 10:01 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:12 AM
sebosfato sebosfato is offline
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why not make it like this: 8 toroids with the most wire you can roll on it, maybe 50 turns, with more than 1mm diameter wire, than make it in resonance with a capacitor, this toroids or inductors are connected in series with with the capacitor connected in parallel or the two end connections from the inductors, intercalated in arrangement, than place all the neodymium magnets 8 with south and north also intercalated on the rotor. Select the capacitor for the resonant frequency of the speed of rotation, need a few calculation here, than just turn the rotor to reach the resonant speed. for 1 complete rotation you will have 8 * the frequency. So for 3000 rpm divided by 60 seconds in one minute = 50 turns so having 1 resonant circuits that have 8 hz per rotation you would need 400hz resonance.
If your toroids series have about 100mh than a 5 uf or 2 uf capacitor should work.

than drive it using a step up transformer 3:1 or 5:1 would be good (it need to have a center tap witch you need to split and add a diode connected between its center taps. start from a car battery 12v (use a high amp diode and in series with power supply a 2 ohms 30w diode for start testing ) and use a 555 simple stupid timer with irfp 250 transistor to make the pulses for the transformer (only one transistor is needed as pulse must be only unidirectional (use a 200n capacitor between drain and source (transformers like 220v x 24v or 110v x 24v used for electronics should be ok (iron core)

this transformer is connected to the parallel resonant circuit or series of 8 toroids with resonant capacitor added (this can be a paper capacitor self healing about 1000 to 2000v) at both poles of the capacitor.

If its really over unity it will work with only this. And will be much more efficient than recharging the battery with the back emf

I didn't tried because i don't have the rotor and the magnets and toroids and not even the wire or a decent oscilloscope for decent readings, not even time to do so... but take it as a gift from the future and if you can check it out... should have 2,5 more power output than inputed and work at fix rotation.

Last edited by sebosfato : 01-03-2010 at 12:45 AM.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:14 AM
sebosfato sebosfato is offline
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electricity could be harvested directly on the poles from the capacitor a high impedance load preferably about 200v 100 watts lamp

Last edited by sebosfato : 01-03-2010 at 12:48 AM.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:52 AM
sisqocracker sisqocracker is offline
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Here's my first video as I'm pursuing this idea. Looks like a Howard Johnson motor to me. I've got the magnet being dropped from the toroid, now I'll just mount it up and get it triggered appropriately. I'll be supplying more info as I develop it.

Thanks,
Coop

YouTube - Steorn and HJ magnet motor principal
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