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  #2251 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:45 PM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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@ kcarring
Will this start at less than 0.5 volt or do you need to start at higher voltage and then reduce voltage?
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  #2252 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 12:29 AM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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@Xee2, in theory @ .1V. In practice, for me, so far, .2 If I am understanding it correctly, it sort of builds up, itself, through feedback. I have only got it to work with depletion mode j110 but it may work with others, I do not know. Unfortunately, this diagram is all I have, so everything is experimental as to values.

do you find the apparent efficiency of these JT's seems to be better with low voltage input, Xee2? Mine seem to produce better bang for the buck (the Xee2 JT config.'s I mean...) when NOT ran at 12V, rather from 3-6V seems to be best? wondering on what your thoughts on that are / theories.

Nice vids lately, thanks for sharing.

Last edited by kcarring : 04-05-2012 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:47 AM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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do you find the apparent efficiency of these JT's seems to be better with low voltage input
.
Yes. The circuit you are using seems to peak at about 3 volts. I do not know if that is due to the LEDs or the circuit. The LEDs will max out at some point.

I posted circuit that runs at 0.2 volts using germanium transistor. Thought you might be interested. Joule thief - low voltage - YouTube
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:56 AM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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@xee2

Yes, very cool! Good one for the Peltier module, too, definitely! Thanks. one of the things I do like about all of these circuits, is... when it comes to purchasing super/ultracapcitors - it's the voltage that really costs you money... not so much the amps (if you know what I mean). Unlike conventional 12V circuits, at least with these, one or two supercaps can provide for almost a lifetime of free energy light, when solar charged. Cool.

Last edited by kcarring : 04-05-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:48 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Incredible run voltage there.
I noted you said about availability of such an old NPN. One place has them, 30 of them in fact, at $5 each.

2N4077 NPN Bipolar Power Transistor: In Stock Buy Now | West Florida Components
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  #2256 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 07:29 AM
lms123 lms123 is offline
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  #2257 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 03:34 PM
broli broli is offline
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Winding a sergdo coil is pretty close to hell on earth. I'm doing the multiple sections and layers thing to prevent arcing, getting all the wires perfectly next to each other is quite a pain in the ass .
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  #2258 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:02 PM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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@ seth

Wow, your slayer exciter is working great.

In general, the only particle that can leave a metal are electrons. They always try to leave at sharp points and they always go from negative charged surface to positive charged surface. Sparks are caused by electrons hitting air molecules and ionizing them. In Tesla coil the sparks are caused by the electrons leaving the metal and ionizing air. Same for your motor. The Tesla coil is putting out AC. Only creates sparks this way during negative part of cycle. Electrons can also be pulled from air during positive part of cycle and ionize air in the process. So electrons go into and out of Tesla coil depending on which part of AC cycle is happening. They can create sparks going both ways. But it is easier for electrons to leave surface when there is a sharp point.

EDIT: The force moving the motor is the reaction to the mass of the electrons being ejected from the wire points.

Last edited by xee2 : 04-06-2012 at 02:53 AM.
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  #2259 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:21 PM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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Video of Joule thief lighting 120 VAC LED bulb using a toroid >>> Joule thief - 120 VAC LED bulb using toroid - YouTube

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  #2260 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2012, 04:41 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Quote:
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Winding a sergdo coil is pretty close to hell on earth. I'm doing the multiple sections and layers thing to prevent arcing, getting all the wires perfectly next to each other is quite a pain in the ass .
Im winding another large toroid as we speak. 650 winds so far for coil #1. Using 22 ga wire. Try to achieve A state of Zen meditation, Become one with the wind, be wire my friend, be flexible,.....(inspired by Bruce Lee)
AND Drink BOATLOADS OF COFFEE, stay away from other humans and have a large water filled porcelain vortex device REALLY handy
Jim
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  #2261 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:39 AM
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Hi folks, thanks for sharing circuit and video xee2.
Yes, that works good with a cfl also using 12 volts, though those led bulbs are a much better route, if one has any, i have not bought any of those yet, though probably because i haven't had a fed note or a wallet for some time now, hehe, be the change you want to see, they are spot on about that.
peace love light
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:38 PM
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Im winding another large toroid as we speak. 650 winds so far for coil #1. Using 22 ga wire. Try to achieve A state of Zen meditation, Become one with the wind, be wire my friend, be flexible,.....(inspired by Bruce Lee)
AND Drink BOATLOADS OF COFFEE, stay away from other humans and have a large water filled porcelain vortex device REALLY handy
Jim
I tend to wind coils always when looking at film on computer, though it has to be not much interesting or winding is taking hours.
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  #2263 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2012, 10:11 PM
seth seth is offline
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@ seth

Wow, your slayer exciter is working great.

In general, the only particle that can leave a metal are electrons. They always try to leave at sharp points and they always go from negative charged surface to positive charged surface. Sparks are caused by electrons hitting air molecules and ionizing them. In Tesla coil the sparks are caused by the electrons leaving the metal and ionizing air. Same for your motor. The Tesla coil is putting out AC. Only creates sparks this way during negative part of cycle. Electrons can also be pulled from air during positive part of cycle and ionize air in the process. So electrons go into and out of Tesla coil depending on which part of AC cycle is happening. They can create sparks going both ways. But it is easier for electrons to leave surface when there is a sharp point.

EDIT: The force moving the motor is the reaction to the mass of the electrons being ejected from the wire points.
Cheers Xee for taking the time to explain that. I remember teaching a kid at a school (I'm an English teacher, so everyone here can forgive my lack of physics knowledge ) how to build his own exciter, and we had a chat about which way the energy flowed round the circuit - I told him that with AC it flows backwards and forwards, so Im glad I got something right! His exciter worked anyway, and that was the most important thing. He was a smart kid, and its nice to inspire the young ones with some interesting builds - just like you guys all inspired me in the first place to get this thing going Swings and roundabouts!

Here is my exciter lighting 2 rooms, as Slayer suggested in the comments on my last video. I can get a distance of about 2metres (I measured this by lying on the floor about 20 cm longer than me) between transmitter and receiver, with both of them lighting fluorescents...even the big one will go at this distance. After 2 metres things get a little tricky.

exciter lighting bathroom and bedroom - YouTube
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  #2264 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:36 PM
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High Impedance Joule Theif Help

Need some joule theif / SEC help over @
Crysta Radio Magic

I am in the process of building a Tesla Resonant Transformer, however in the process I was able to light a "A-2226" white Chinese LED dimly by running it in series with a germanium rectifier diode from my receiving coil. No batteries just an antenna and Eric Dollard designed coils no ground needed yet..

I can't get a joule theif to run off of it but it will dimly run the one white LED listed above directly.

I have tried basic 10turn/10turn, 10turn/200turn, with and without caps across the base resistance, and other variations, still need to try a variable capacitor. All this using 2n2222, ~300hfe transistors.

So my question is :

Have you guys ever worked with a power source that could light an LED directly but would fail to operate a joule theif and what JT type circuit would you recommend for this power source?

The goal being lighting 1 or 2 LEDs to fullish brightness, minimum power usage, and high impedance on base and collector to keep the antenna circuit from loading. Not that much to ask for

There are quite a few different modes of operating a JT and I have not kept up to date. I would hate to wind up a 800 turn JT only to find out I was heading in the wrong direction.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jake
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  #2265 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:52 PM
Watson Watson is offline
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Yes. The circuit you are using seems to peak at about 3 volts. I do not know if that is due to the LEDs or the circuit. The LEDs will max out at some point.

I posted circuit that runs at 0.2 volts using germanium transistor. Thought you might be interested. Joule thief - low voltage - YouTube
I've built quite a few Ge JTs using the 2N404, which is available on eBay. However when you get below 0.5V, the impedances are not low enough, and the LED current is low, so not much light from the LED.

My best results were with the TN0702, which allowed me to get the LED lit at as low as 0.08V (no, that's not a typo), less than a tenth of a volt. See my blog - skip down to MOSFETs. I disabled comments due to comment spam, but you can leave a comment under any photo, or email my yahoo account, acmefixer.

Thanks for the Xee2vids. I wish they had the comments enabled - sometimes I see something worth a comment.
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  #2266 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:06 PM
Watson Watson is offline
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Incredible run voltage there.
I noted you said about availability of such an old NPN. One place has them, 30 of them in fact, at $5 each.

2N4077 NPN Bipolar Power Transistor: In Stock Buy Now | West Florida Components
Someone posted a Youtube video of a JT that uses a silicon transistor and starts and runs at well under a half volt. The secret is a coil with a feedback winding with many times more turns than the primary. See my blog.
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  #2267 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:09 PM
Watson Watson is offline
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Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
Incredible run voltage there.
I noted you said about availability of such an old NPN. One place has them, 30 of them in fact, at $5 each.

2N4077 NPN Bipolar Power Transistor: In Stock Buy Now | West Florida Components
I haven't checked lately, but surplussales.com had AD161 and AD162 germanium power transistors for sale. One is NPN and the other is PNP, so you can put the NPN into an existing JT without any changes other than the supply voltage.
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  #2268 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:35 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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Jake

Look for reversed Joule Thief document and if you make it work let us know.
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  #2269 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 02:15 PM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
I tend to wind coils always when looking at film on computer, though it has to be not much interesting or winding is taking hours.
Well one coil complete on a large toriod.
1.5 lbs mass 750 feet, 22 ga copper = 1875 winds.
Now to mirror that on the other half........
MORE COFFEE........
Jim
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  #2270 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Quote:
The secret is a coil with a feedback winding with many times more turns than the primary. See my blog.
Yeah, I know LOL, my 1V 2mA HV circuit is on your Blog
Using a solar cell indoors, under a CFL is a good way to tune toroids. If you know you only have 1V and 2mA, then if it runs it can only be using that. We know digital meters can confuse the heck out of themselves when HV is present, so knowing full well the capabilities of the power source removes any meter errors.

@Jim, that's crazy, sounds like a mad idea...a great mad idea.

@Jake. Have enjoyed your crystal radio foray and then into the Tesla tower work. Have you tried one of Lidmotor's 'Penny' oscillators ? ( PENNY's circuit diagram.ASF - YouTube )
I have one on my backyard fence based radiant collector system, that runs from 0.4V and <1uA ( Radiant Energy Collector - Low Height - YouTube )
They'll fire up by human energy, no battery at all - piece of copper on the positive, piece of steel on the negative and hold both in your hand...the LED will begin to flash.

Have just completed a 1000 turn 30 gauge tower, wound on a 3" PVC pipe, 12 1/2" tall. I was impressed with Seth's use of the printer wall adapter, so have used a 30V 500mA adapter. Getting an LED to light 6ft away, with no human capacitance
To do that needed the old pop bottle 22 gauge tower that JonnyDavro showed about a year back and a Pentium III heatsink. AV plug to the LED, AV plug input is from the pop bottle, one leg of actual LED is then connected to the metal mass.
But, no flouro at that range yet. Transistor is an A1941 PNP, 2K Base resistor.
Primary is inside the tower - 5 turns pancake. With the Primary being of about 18 gauge copper the input wire bends and stays in shape to make the pancake sit slightly raised inside the tower. Looks like NCC-1701 lol
Pics/vid soon, if it goes anywhere.

Last edited by Slider2732 : 04-11-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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  #2271 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:16 PM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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Slider and All:
I have gotten my home made power cells to produce about 60 mA, and up to a volt or so, from each cell. And, I would like to have a Dr. Stiffler type oscillator going, off of these cells, as the main base coil circuit from which other satellite circuits with leds can feed from. Do you think that the 60mAs output can get me in the ball park, or not? I can also place more cells in series, to obtain lets say up to 12 volts or higher, but with the same 60 mA output, as my cells don't add up very well in parallel? Any ideas?...

I just saw this video, about the 13 crystal sculls, and it blew me away.
I thought that you guys might like to watch it too:
Bashar the 13 Crystal Skulls - YouTube
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:34 AM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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@NickZ

60 mA is plenty for low light, yes. You can run LEDs with a conventional SEC-15x or SEC-18x, or you can play with the coil size dimensions and run CFL's even from that, as jonnydavro showed, and I also did. I even got plasma and decent light at 12.XV / 20-50 mA here. Just as a resonant circuit, even despite not having "nailed" any coherence, it is still quite economical and useful.

Last edited by kcarring : 04-12-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:41 AM
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Thumbs up

Thanks all. You gave me a couple of directions to go. I will let you know how it turns out.
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  #2274 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:56 AM
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Kokomoj0 Kokomoj0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
Need some joule theif / SEC help over @

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jake

jake, use a full wave germanium bridge and filter caps.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:01 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Cell Rejuvenation with a Slayer Exciter

This is for Nick and others who have dead salts cells from all the months of making these.
You might remember a vid, where I rejuvenated a salts cell with water, back in February. That cell finally died off again the other day and so I tried water again. The thing fired up for a few minutes and then died off again. Ah well, another for the heap eh ?
Well....I thought i'd try something...HV straight into the cell and with the hope that it may be a way to either realign crystals or blast cobwebs like ya do with a NiCad.
I put the cell on the top of my 1000 turn 30 gauge tower, placed the tip of the output wire very close to the positive copper of the cell and switched on.
The plasma launched out and frazzled the heck out of the cell for about 3 minutes. During this time the Ha'Penny LED oscillator was still connected, but not flashing.
Oh well, switch off eh, nothing gained.
I switched off and....blink... blink..blink the oscillator started up and gained in strength over about a minute !
That was half an hour ago and it's carried on with good strength, just like a rejuvenation with water did the last time.
The old cell carries on

Sorry for the awful pic, my camera isn't too great indoors. But, it shows the tower, the way the wire ran up to near the side of the copper in the middle of the cell and the circuit now running.

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  #2276 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2012, 05:30 AM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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Slider and All:
Its possible that the HV can help to polarize a cell, especially if the cell is specially made for it. Yes, to open and reline channels so that ions can flow. If energy can't flow and is only voltage, it would be considered useless, but when I see what the Dr. does even without any input, it makes me wonder.

Slider thanks for posting your video, I had seen it before but it was good to see it again.
I've got a couple my low draw oscillators working well with my cells, but I'd still like to do the Stiffler type of circuits, and his way of making some leds light, but with input from coming from the cells instead.
Interesting about the effect of the plasma on the aluminum cap cell. Keep playing around with that effect, there may really be something to it.

I just made a cell that looks just like yours in that picture, but even smaller, and puts out 50 mA, but won't hold it for long, as it's so small,
so I put two cells together and they are lighting the 6 leds through the oscillator. Both cells together are the size of a single AA battery.
I'll show some pics, soon.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:56 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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It's one of those experiments, where we need those 1930's black + white film knife switches !
The cell is one of your cap can types, hence why I thought the aluminium/burnt copper may be of interest. Magnesium or carbon electrodes might work just the same though.
I remember a lot of talk about HV polarizing, in August or September, but thought that was just at the time of cell manufacture, not when the things had died off.
A couple of caveats would be that there was water added the day before and that every cell will have different ingredients. Still, seeing plasma whack into a cell and it actually bring it back to life is quite the experience.

I've had Dr. Stiffler SEC 18 self builds run from an AA and lower. It's all about tuning (of course). They can be troubling to start, often needing a tap of some connection to a battery terminal to fire them up...but then they stay running unless overloaded on the HV side. That's my builds, actual units from the Dr. may function very differently. Lidmotor or Inquorate are two guys with much more experience.
All very different to Slayers simplified and elegant solution.
I'm sure that an SEC can run from Tesla tower field energy, via AV plug, but also that in doing so, it draws the conclusion that the SEC could close the loop and return some power to that Tesla tower. With having no physical connections, the loop is actually open. There's only so much available power within the proximity of the tower range, but that's not to say that the receiving device has to be passive and only collect energy..
I'll be doing similar tests with salts cells. My cells, though, only ever produce up to 20mA short term. Usual running figures for a couple of months would be 0.6V @ 2mA...and then water them and fry them with high voltage lol
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:04 PM
seth seth is offline
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THANK YOU WOOPY!

DC filaments work grrrreat with exciters. Firstly I want to post Woopy's video, which I watched 2 hours ago (I think he has already posted it in the Don Smith thread, but just in case you missed it here....)

amazing coupling between kacher and incadescent bulb 1.wmv - YouTube

It really is this simple. Exciter, 1 steel loop, and a DC filament bulb.

And my replication, with a receiver tower showing the same effect, but at about half a metre distance from the transmitter

Exciter lighting DC filament with Steel Loop - YouTube

Get your filaments ready, and put your gloves - its really put me in a good mood, after hours and hours of trying to get the same effect as the Russians get with their 'Kachers'! I think Woopy has solved the mystery.

UPDATE - One of my small DC bulbs has blown! I must remember NOT to use 32V with the smaller DC bulbs.

UPDATE 2 - Halogens work also. I can't believe I havent tried this before! In fact, I have tried this, but I just left the primary at the bottom of my receiving coil, thinking it had to be in the same place as on the transmitting coil. Well, it seems to only work when I hold the primary half way up. I get nada when its close to the bottom.

Heres another video

Exciter lighting halogen. Wireless transfer - YouTube

Last edited by seth : 04-13-2012 at 12:41 AM. Reason: update
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:53 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Definitely 'lovely jubbly' !
I've built a tower like yours now and it's on a 32V supply, erm like yours now, so will give that a go. It's one thing to get 6ft wireless range with an LED (which was cool in itself), BUT, if we can light filament bulbs at that range then that's even better.

Update
Ha, how easy was that, 2 minute thing and this 6.3V bulb lit up on the main tower !
Next, to see what happens further afield.
Very cool Woopy and Seth



Just found out, that if you put a tiny 12V 'ear of wheat' also on the loop (the bulbs for Bedini wheels) then the main 6.3V bulb doesn't seem to lose any brightness.
2x 6.3V bulbs light well, more can be added to the same loop as well, in parallel !

Last edited by Slider2732 : 04-13-2012 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:57 AM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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Guys:
That's really good news, about the regular filament bulbs working off the exciters. As I don't really like the light from CFL or LED bulbs, but I love the golden light given off by the regular old fashion bulbs that we grew up using.
Thanks for sharing.
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