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  #31  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:47 PM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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@Dr Stiffler and Slayer.I would love to do those tests for you but i don't think i can achieve the benchmark you ask for and my lab is very and i mean very basic.The 2 component circuit runs at 35mA AT 1.5V,68mA AT 3V and in the video it was running on 12v at 128mA .The neon is lit at 1.5v but not blazing and nice and bright on 3v with both sides lit.The current draw can be adjusted by moving the base tray in relation to the output tray but you don't have the control of a 15-3 with the adjustable LB but quite interesting i thought that you can do this with just 2 components.I am going to experiment with winding my own trigger transformer and see if i can get a high voltage output for a lower input.Thanks for posting Dr.regards jonny
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:39 PM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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wirelessly

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
As a sidenote morpher,i would like to ask you a favour.Could you try your joulethief and ignition coil setup with some trays or towers and see if you can light some leds wirelessly as i don't have a coil to replicate your setup yet as i am thinking high voltage/frequency is a must for this.I will also have a look at your led throwies idea but can't view the website with my computer as it won't accept the quicktime pluggin but i think i know what you mean.Many thanks. jonny.
yes i've done that. But by wirelessly ... I would qualify that this
appears to be very much an inductive pick-up sort of phenomenon.

The little "detector" I used, different from an Avramenko plug
was just a little neon bulb with one lead connected to a
loop of wire made out of a clip lead wire arranged in a loop --
and the other neon lead wired to a straight clip lead.
I'm sure the Avramenko plug with LED approach would show results too.
Hold these nearby the so called "metal tray" or in my case
metal capacitor cylinder attached to the HOT lead of the
ignition coil, and the neon glows nicely. Neon is very
sensitive. Interestingly, if you take the straight lead
and approach the loop, all is fine ... until you intersect
the PLANE of the loop. As soon as you do, it doesn't matter
how close you are to the resonating source, the NEON goes out.
Great fun!

This occurs with Joule Thief driving the ignition coil,
or the Aramoz circuit driving the ignition coil.
Any sort of chopper circuit to the ignition coil is acceptable.
The cylinder, with hand-wound foil capacitor around it,
emits a HUGE/STRONG field ... easily received by
nearby masses. The oscilliscope probes, when brought
nearby, show a STRONG sine wave form -- with
amplitude varying with distance.

Tesla seemed to think this was NOT exactly inverse-square-law,
but may actually be more a power-loss due to local heating of the environment
-- when air is used. I think you would need
some pretty precise measurements to correlate with
or disprove the inverse-square-law hypothesis.

With the Aramoz circuit, my igniotion coil gets DAMN hot ...
With Joule Thief ... not hot at all. I'm guessing it may
be due to the 3 2n3055 transistors hooked in parallel
in the Aramoz case. They may be slightly different
phases -- and fight each other a bit -- producing heat
both at the coil and on the transistors themselves.
In the JT cause I only have one transitor powering the coils.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2009, 02:01 AM
Vortex Vortex is offline
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jonnydavro, Holy Smokes. This is BIG.
(at least I think so...But I am not qualified to make a judgment )
This is like cooking with gas instead of firewood.

You stated: "with both sides lit" .. To clarify, did you mean both sides
of the neon bulb lit up?
I see the neon light up in the the video, but can not tell if one side or both
sides of it are lit. Which is it, one or both?
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2009, 02:48 AM
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Great job Jonny Davro I wonder if the effect would be enhanced by filling the trays with salt water Now I need to find a trigger xfmer and try this simple circuit for myself, that neon looked really bright.

Dave
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  #35  
Old 12-04-2009, 08:39 AM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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@vortex.HI RandyBoth sides of the neon light.I mention this as it shows i have AC and when you use an avramenko plug,only one side lights.This is the same as with a sec 15-3 which is what i am using for comparison and this simple circuit produces the same effects which is good and shows there may be more than one way to skin a cat.Regards jonny
@Retrod.Hi Dave The Neon is bright and i hope you try this.The trigger transformer specs i used can be viewed here so you may be able to find something similar closer to you or you may even be able to make your own
Trigger Transformers : Trigger Transformers : Maplin
How to build your own trigger coil!
It is an interesting idea to add salt water to the trays.i will try it and see what happens.regards jonny.
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:54 AM
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aluminum trays

I know that others in the past have tried to put their circuits in aluminum
trays as a make shift Faraday Cage. But as you can see here, the AC voltage
can arrive to such a tray wirelessly ... and go right through it ... to the inside.
Local inductive effects like this are quite strong ... and can go directly
through the metal masses to the other side. In fact, charges want
to deposit themselves on the INSIDE of the surface --
ala Van de Graaff.

The whole Faraday Cage concept needs a re-think with
respect to these sorts of experiments.
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  #37  
Old 12-04-2009, 06:23 PM
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I should have made a movie but I was able to tune a SEC with a glass of water. Set it near the circuit does change its... isness. I was thinking what the body changes when near the circuit, and water entered my mind. I'll shut up and make a video :-D

So yeah saltwater would change something I am sure.
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:01 PM
retrod retrod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
@vortex.HI RandyBoth sides of the neon light.I mention this as it shows i have AC and when you use an avramenko plug,only one side lights.This is the same as with a sec 15-3 which is what i am using for comparison and this simple circuit produces the same effects which is good and shows there may be more than one way to skin a cat.Regards jonny
@Retrod.Hi Dave The Neon is bright and i hope you try this.The trigger transformer specs i used can be viewed here so you may be able to find something similar closer to you or you may even be able to make your own
Trigger Transformers : Trigger Transformers : Maplin
How to build your own trigger coil!
It is an interesting idea to add salt water to the trays.i will try it and see what happens.regards jonny.
Hi Jonny,
I was able to reproduce your circuit using an ignition coil in place of the trigger coil. The production value of the video is horrible but here it is:
YouTube - Replication of Jonny Davros One transistor with trigger coil oscillator
I have not tried filling the pie plates I used with salt water, I believe these would leak, lol!

Dave
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:51 PM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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Nice work Dave .I found that the position of the trays makes a difference to the outputs on each.Mine worked best with the output tray on the left,base tray in middle and negative to right.The neons are all really bright and i have now put another tray in series with the positive and that lights a neon too.There is nowhere on my circuit which does not have hv although i can only light a flourescent on the output tray but leds work wirelessly of all the trays.Thanks for trying this Dave.regards jonny
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  #40  
Old 12-05-2009, 12:52 AM
retrod retrod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
Nice work Dave .I found that the position of the trays makes a difference to the outputs on each.Mine worked best with the output tray on the left,base tray in middle and negative to right.The neons are all really bright and i have now put another tray in series with the positive and that lights a neon too.There is nowhere on my circuit which does not have hv although i can only light a flourescent on the output tray but leds work wirelessly of all the trays.Thanks for trying this Dave.regards jonny
Thanks Jonny, it was fun to work with even though I recieved a few shocks along the way . I have a feeling the ignition coils physical size is lowering the frequency range of the oscillator. Perhaps best to stay with a smaller trigger coil for higher frequency effects. By coincidence my trays (pie plates) were arranged in the sequence you describe. Thanks again for bringing this simple circuit configuration to our attention.
Dave
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2009, 06:13 PM
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Working on replication

@Jonny & Dave
I worked on this yesterday just the way you did Dave-- by using a car ignition coil. For some reason I could not get it to oscillate unless I made a Darlington pair out of two MPSA06 transistors, then it ran fine. I got shocked pretty good several times just like you did. I'll try again today with the pans arranged differently and with just one transistor. A small trigger coil, like what you are using Jonny, is probably the correct way to get this right. The ignition coil is overkill but it did work.

Lidmotor
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidmotor View Post
@Jonny & Dave
I worked on this yesterday just the way you did Dave-- by using a car ignition coil. For some reason I could not get it to oscillate unless I made a Darlington pair out of two MPSA06 transistors, then it ran fine. I got shocked pretty good several times just like you did. I'll try again today with the pans arranged differently and with just one transistor. A small trigger coil, like what you are using Jonny, is probably the correct way to get this right. The ignition coil is overkill but it did work.

Lidmotor

I also tried it with an ignition coil it worked great.

But I still needed the 1M resistor across the base and collector to get it to work.

Like Lidmotor said I think it would work better with the trigger transformer Jonny is using.
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  #43  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:51 PM
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Still using Darlinton to get effect

@All
I worked with this again yesterday and still can't get it to run on just one transistor. I need to get the right trigger coil I guess. My ignition coil does run very well by using the two MPSA06s in a darlinton pair arrangement. I played with it for hours and finally replaced the output pie tin with Dr. Stiffler's "S Gate". Check the "High voltage from thin air" thread to see what it looks like if you don't already know. I got some very interesting effects like off the SEC circuit. I tried my SEC towers and DID NOT get very good results though. I think that my ignition coil arrangement runs at way too low a frequency and the tower coils don't like it.

Lidmotor
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  #44  
Old 12-06-2009, 10:04 PM
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@Lidmotor and Slayer.Thanks for spending a bit of time on this,i know you both have lots of other things you must want to do but you may be right and have to downsize on the coil but the fact that you got it to oscillate by making a darlington is interesting and what this thread is all about,thats a new variant.Nice.
The small trigger transformer i use goes into oscillation with one transistor very easily.Using an mpsa06,you just have to touch the base tray and it goes into oscillation and if not i just touch the base tray with a positive jumper wire and of she goes.You can even replace the base tray with just a croc lead.
There are no shocks either which is a bonus as ignition coils have a real nasty bite.If you can find one of these trigger transformers,radio shack should have them, i think you will get it going on just the one tranny.Many thanks.Regards jonny.
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2009, 11:14 PM
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I made a trifilar Joule Theif. A + B are 14 winds #24 ga. The recovery C wind was 100 turns of spider silk red wire from 3 radio shack spool magnetwire.

I have noticed with a LED in the oscillator I can only sense pressures of 10 volts on my C wind but with the LED removed I could feel voltages of 50 with my hand meter. In trifilar JT's with a load on a smaller longer recovery winding, it seems beneficial to have an open instead of a LED, or possibly more LED's then one.

Hooked it up to a SEC. I can turn on the tuning light about 4 foot from a room incandescent bulb to solar panel to JT to SEC, but excitation is weak.

When the LED was in its place as the right load, I could light it up from the light I gathered about 5 feet away.

Did not seem to matter if I put the SEC as the load off the C coil or as the LED in the JT circuit in relation to distance from light to where the SEC would begin operating.

I think I might need to wind more winds and use a larger toroid.
Thanks!
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  #46  
Old 12-08-2009, 11:56 PM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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@ Cosmicfarmer.Hi.interesting experiment you have going on there.
With regards to your joulethief.Jeanna who championed the secondary on a joule thief idea has done extensive tests and found like you that an led in the oscillator circuit is detrimental and better to place them in the secondary circuit but i would try leaving the secondary open like you suggest with an avramenko plug on each end.Put you Leds here and on the last led negative lead,have a croc lead going to an aluminium tray as a virtual ground.i have had good results with such a setup.Thanks for posting.Regards jonny.
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  #47  
Old 12-12-2009, 04:53 PM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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Hi.Here is an update on my Simple SEC circuit.I have now got this circuit running on low voltage with low current draw and retaining good wireless performance.Amp draw is related to the size of tray connected to the base and the position of the tray in relation to the output tray.
I have also added a trigger transformer to the wireless circuit and am running this backwards with the negative leg of the led connected to a metal pot,closest to the output pot.This trigger transformer increases the brightness of the leds and i think it may be acting similar to the coil on Dr Stifflers towers.
Here is a vid.Regards jonny.
YouTube - Simple SEC 2
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  #48  
Old 12-19-2009, 02:02 AM
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Energy Transmitter

@Jonny
Well I worked and worked with this idea and got several different things to run but this one was the most interesting so I drew up a circuit diagram and made a video of it. It uses one MPSA06 transistor and a trigger coil out of a disposable flash camera. I hooked up the output to a long thin wire then attached a Stiffler tower with 27 Leds in series. It is the cohesion of energy all around this thing that really has me interested. It looks like this circuit goes into an automatic high frequency resonance that does what a SEC does.
What do you think Jonny???
Here is the video--

YouTube - Energy Transmitter.ASF

Cheers,

Lidmotor
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:00 AM
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Great job Lidmotor , as always. By the way, this schematic resembles too much the Ukrainian solid State Tesla coil (Kacer) i have replicated.

See Ground enhanced lit lamps - Tesla Coil and Ground

Base of transistor in my case is the one lead of the high voltage secondary. This way, not much tuning is necessary since the system auto-syncronizes by having the pulse-propagetion in the wire and reflect-back to base of transistor, hence auto-resonance point.


Baroutologos
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  #50  
Old 12-19-2009, 04:18 PM
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Triggering the transistor

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Originally Posted by baroutologos View Post
Great job Lidmotor , as always. By the way, this schematic resembles too much the Ukrainian solid State Tesla coil (Kacer) i have replicated.

See Ground enhanced lit lamps - Tesla Coil and Ground

Base of transistor in my case is the one lead of the high voltage secondary. This way, not much tuning is necessary since the system auto-syncronizes by having the pulse-propagetion in the wire and reflect-back to base of transistor, hence auto-resonance point.


Baroutologos
@Baroutologos
Thanks for the link to your circuit. I see what you did to feed the transistor base. If a variable resistor were placed there then that might add tuning capability. It would be a way to control the feed back.

Lidmotor
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  #51  
Old 12-19-2009, 05:57 PM
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@Lidmotor.I am so pleased you got it going.That is some serious cohesion you have got going on there.Nice.I think the addition of Dr Stifflers towers has boosted output and this is starting to look like its got the makings of a usable wireless power system.
The trigger transformer from the fuji was a great idea and may be just the right component for this as my trigger transformer was made for 4kv with 170v on the primary and the fuji may require less than this so great idea.
Regarding tuning.I think if you tie the base to a resistor you may lose oscillation and the autotune feature which is the key to this simple design and it is easily tunable by the size of ariel on the base and position relative to the output tray/wire.You could try putting a 50 or 100k pot in series with your croc lead and leave one end free and You can even make a board up with different lengh's of wire and skip from one to the other but i am sure you will figure out something,You always do
One other thing.Have you tried putting a 10uh and a 22uh inductor in front of the avramenko plug.I find this increases the brightness of the LEDS.
Great work Lidmotor and thanks for sticking with it.I will try a fuji TT and let you know how it compares with mine.Many thanks jonny.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:27 PM
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Tuning---but keeping it simple

@Jonny
I tried different ways to pick up the base signal encluding different loop antenna sizes and shapes. You can obviously get the job done great with a big aluminum tray but I found that there was a limit to how small you can go. I am still working on that. My SEC tower didn't work at all and I don't know why because it should have. The coil that is wrapped on it may be the problem. The tower did work good on the output end though.
I will try different inductors prior to the AV plug and see what happens. On a SEC the size of the L3 coil makes a big difference. I have a bunch of them that I wound up along with a few store bought chokes to try.
This could turn into a regular SEC if too many parts are added and then it is just a reinvention. As it stands now (especially the one with the 3 aluminum trays, one transistor, and one trigger coil) it is ultra simple and unique.

Lidmotor
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  #53  
Old 12-22-2009, 01:15 AM
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Finally! My true replication of the one transistor / one 4kv trigger coil circuit

@ Jonny
I finally got my 4 kv trigger coil and made the circuit that you showed weeks ago. It is just the one MPSA06 and the coil ---two parts just like yours. I used a couple of aluminum trays just like you showed and got it to run on one AA. It puts out more 'FUN' with more voltage but it will run on 1.5 volts.
I think that this is an amazing thing that you have come up with.
Here is a short video of it running.

YouTube - Jonnydavro's aluminmun pan oscillator.ASF

Thanks.

Lidmotor
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:29 AM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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@Lidmotor.Nice vid I am glad you have tried the 4kv xformer as it will be interesting to know how it compares to your little fuji xformer.I hope to try a fuji one later this week.
I have just seen you can get a 10kv xformer so i am thinking about getting one of those to see if there is a correlation between higher voltage rating and actual output of the Simple sec.
This whole Dr Stiffler SEC project has been one of the most interesting things i have dabbled with and i am glad you brought SEC to my attention through your great vids.I can spend litterally hours messing about with this and enjoy every minute.Many thanks and Merry christmas.Regards jonny.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidmotor View Post
@ Jonny
I finally got my 4 kv trigger coil and made the circuit that you showed weeks ago. It is just the one MPSA06 and the coil ---two parts just like yours. I used a couple of aluminum trays just like you showed and got it to run on one AA. It puts out more 'FUN' with more voltage but it will run on 1.5 volts.
I think that this is an amazing thing that you have come up with.
Here is a short video of it running.

YouTube - Jonnydavro's aluminmun pan oscillator.ASF

Thanks.

Lidmotor
WOW.. Guys that is Amazing.

I need to find one of them trigger coils.

Great work guys.

EDIT: Mouser Electronics sells them I ordered a 4kv and also a 10kv.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:38 PM
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Wavefront SEC with 2 transistors

Hi Wavefront ,
You show a SEC with 2 transistors, and it has a much stronger Coherence field !!!!

YouTube - SEC 15-3 HV2

You say it's 18V less than 100 mA but the 4W Fluo is very bright and even the longer one tube seems to give lots of light !!

So the question is : do you think the efficiency input current/output light is better with 2 transistors ? Is it a linear improvement line ?

Did anyone else make tests with 2 transistors on the SEC ?

Sorry not being able to test it by myself, but I just moved again and have no material anymore. Need to buy everything new again each time because I move countries and can not carry stuff with me

David
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:43 PM
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Kiss

That's simple enough for me to build successfully

I wonder if, if indeed it is cohering (anybody check for temperature drop? Broadband RF?), it could be repeated in daisy chain formation..

I'll keep an eye out for disposable camera or strobe light trigger coil.

Thankyou guys
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:33 PM
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Wavefront a genius!

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Originally Posted by stephenafreter View Post
Hi Wavefront ,
You show a SEC with 2 transistors, and it has a much stronger Coherence field !!!!

YouTube - SEC 15-3 HV2

You say it's 18V less than 100 mA but the 4W Fluo is very bright and even the longer one tube seems to give lots of light !!

So the question is : do you think the efficiency input current/output light is better with 2 transistors ? Is it a linear improvement line ?

Did anyone else make tests with 2 transistors on the SEC ?

Sorry not being able to test it by myself, but I just moved again and have no material anymore. Need to buy everything new again each time because I move countries and can not carry stuff with me

David
@Wavefront

Only one other person every figured out what the extra space was for on the 15-2's and that was Loki, of course it was never released so one needed to gain the knowledge, the 15-3's had the print but also no documentation on what it was for.

Great display of the electrostatic field and it has to be in coherence to light the Xenon.

Great work and Merry Xmas if your into that.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenafreter View Post
Hi Wavefront ,
You show a SEC with 2 transistors, and it has a much stronger Coherence field !!!!

YouTube - SEC 15-3 HV2

You say it's 18V less than 100 mA but the 4W Fluo is very bright and even the longer one tube seems to give lots of light !!

So the question is : do you think the efficiency input current/output light is better with 2 transistors ? Is it a linear improvement line ?

Did anyone else make tests with 2 transistors on the SEC ?

Sorry not being able to test it by myself, but I just moved again and have no material anymore. Need to buy everything new again each time because I move countries and can not carry stuff with me

David
I'm not sure of the efficiency, but I can say the field grows quite large. Strange thing is that unloaded it can draw over 100mA, yet when I bring the fluorescent bulbs in the vicinity, or directly connect the xenon, it will only draw around 30-50mA's. I think this is an indication that I don't quite have it correct.


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@Wavefront

Only one other person every figured out what the extra space was for on the 15-2's and that was Loki, of course it was never released so one needed to gain the knowledge, the 15-3's had the print but also no documentation on what it was for.

Great display of the electrostatic field and it has to be in coherence to light the Xenon.

Great work and Merry Xmas if your into that.
Thanks for the comment, I do notice 1 of the transistors heating more than the other which says it's out of balance, and I've been trying to fix that. I will try the resistance values you gave, so I guess that should do it. Merry Xmas to you, and all. Btw the wireless video you posted is very interesting, and the fact you can light the neon off that coil even with it loaded down with the leds, is amazing.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:35 AM
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Jonny's aluminum pan oscillator running a 110v/20 LED bulb

@ Jonny & All
I tried a standard (unmodified) 110 volt/20 LED screw in bulb on the pan oscillator and it worked. I added a second transistor in parallel to see if that helped. It didn't seem to increase the output as I had hoped but it did help carry the load and prevent over heating.
Here is the video of it:

YouTube - Pan oscillator running 110 volt LED light.ASF

Cheers,

Lidmotor
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