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  #1561  
Old 11-27-2011, 12:26 PM
T-1000 T-1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Serge View Post
Hello,

Here is a short video (Link: Test 1.mp4 - YouTube) of my actual setup and the same circuit I posted earlier. The first part of the video I show you the system and in the second part I show you the signal picked up on a probe left just beside the L2 coil.
Not bad

Questions:
1) How much power your NST consumes to power 100W bulb?
2) Do you use AV HV diode plug to charge capacitor before spark gap?
3) Your oscilloscope shows deceasing self oscillations. Did you try to reach resonance and reverse it to increasing self oscillations?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf scema-Model.pdf (146.4 KB, 164 views)
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  #1562  
Old 11-27-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue_Serge View Post
Hello,

Thank you Zilino for your advice. I will try your suggestions next.

The input power for the NST is 240 watts. (120V * 2Amps)

This system is still far from overunity, however it is a step in the right direction. I will try the this again with a third coil and see if that makes any difference. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks.
Hi Blue_Serge,
did you measure the 120V/2A or is that the value from the label of your NST?
You must not multiply the values from the labels. Usually they are max. values and are not true at same time. This notion applies to the input and output figures as well.
Think of a water pump. With colsed output tap it supplies a certain pressure. As soon as you open the tap the max. pressure will decrease, while the water flow will increase starting from zero. When maximum water flow - you have the lowest pressure.
@all: if you share figures of voltage / amps of your NSTs please add if they are measured or extracted fom the label. This will help to prevent confusions.
rgds John
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  #1563  
Old 11-27-2011, 07:13 PM
Core Core is offline
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Hi Blue_Serge,
Think of a water pump. With colsed output tap it supplies a certain pressure. As soon as you open the tap the max. pressure will decrease, while the water flow will increase starting from zero. When maximum water flow - you have the lowest pressure.
John
Well,...not exactly, I think you mean a compressor (positive displacement pump) and not a water (centrifugal) pump. Water pressure, in a closed loop system, is dictated by the amount of water in the system (static head). Closing the head on the pump results in no change in system pressure. Of course a large pump will quickly damage itself.

If you have a hot water boiler in your house you will notice that the pressure gauge stays at around 12 psig (one familly house) with the pump on and off.

-Core
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Last edited by Core; 11-27-2011 at 07:15 PM.
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  #1564  
Old 11-27-2011, 07:21 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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A simple recommendation that works for input.

Power your device thru a Killowatt meter!!

I am also trying to do a simple resistor in water for "Butch Calorimetry"
on the load end!!

We need to get this figured

Chet
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  #1565  
Old 11-27-2011, 07:35 PM
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NST input power

Hello,

I measured the input power with an Amp meter connected in series on the input side. I don't have a kilowatt meter but I will look into getting one.

Zilano made some suggestions earlier and I wanted to try them out next. I was thinking of making the third coil either a bifilar or caduceus coil and attaching the right capacitor to resonant with the pick up coils. Which is better a bifilar or Caduceus coil?

@T-1000: I used 2 HV 10KV - 30mA diodes to charge the primary capacitor then discharge it through the spark gap into L1 or primary coil. I was just showing the signal that is picked up by the probe. From what I understand I believe I need a signal that is rising in voltage or ringing up, no?
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  #1566  
Old 11-27-2011, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
Well,...not exactly, I think you mean a compressor (positive displacement pump) and not a water (centrifugal) pump. Water pressure, in a closed loop system, is dictated by the amount of water in the system (static head). Closing the head on the pump results in no change in system pressure. Of course a large pump will quickly damage itself.

If you have a hot water boiler in your house you will notice that the pressure gauge stays at around 12 psig (one familly house) with the pump on and off.

-Core
You are right. I should have discribed it more precisely. I had a simple centrifugal garden pump in my mind as open system.
rgds John
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  #1567  
Old 11-27-2011, 09:43 PM
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Hi Blue-Serge,
the community will appreciate it very much if you could post a schematic of the exact connections. Further modifications will be easier to track and discuss.
rgds John
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  #1568  
Old 11-27-2011, 09:48 PM
T-1000 T-1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Serge View Post
Hello,
@T-1000: I used 2 HV 10KV - 30mA diodes to charge the primary capacitor then discharge it through the spark gap into L1 or primary coil. I was just showing the signal that is picked up by the probe. From what I understand I believe I need a signal that is rising in voltage or ringing up, no?
Youp, you need ringing up signal. I attached our setup pdf as example.
Another important part is to have NST ringing too. So you can feed 1 wire electricity into AV (Avramenko) diode plug what charge capacitor before spark gap.
Just querious, if you put voltmeter and ampermeter before your setup and show what power it consumes, that would answer to question "power in and power out?"..
Please see Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump v1.0 by Jean-Louis Naudin as example of its usage.
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  #1569  
Old 11-28-2011, 01:03 AM
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@JohnStone

Here is the circuit I used and demonstrated in the video.

@T-1000
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll work towards getting a ringing up wave pattern.
If you are asking what the input power and out power on my system, the system input is 240W and output I don't yet. I use for now a 100W bulb to see if there is work being done.
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  #1570  
Old 11-28-2011, 01:10 PM
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zilano -

the circuit with MOV in it , what is a MOV ? and how do you get LV 350v ?? dc OR AC ?
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  #1571  
Old 11-28-2011, 03:13 PM
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zilano -

the circuit with MOV in it , what is a MOV ? and how do you get LV 350v ?? dc OR AC ?
Hi,
MOV (wikipedia) is a metal oxide varistor. This is a special kind of avery fast overvoltage protection (zehners are too lazy). In this schematic any overvoltage spike can fire the flash tube out of the inteded frequency by 2KV pulses. Therefore the MOV.
rgds John
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  #1572  
Old 11-28-2011, 05:22 PM
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Make your L2 coils like this, out of ribbon conductor the angle should be 51.83


The electric field of a magnet
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  #1573  
Old 11-28-2011, 06:20 PM
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use this in ur current version if u dont intend to use third coil. short/shunt the ccw coil in secondary.

rgds
zzzz
Hi Zilano,
thanks for this clear hint! Most of your hints correspond exactly to the Vladimir Utkin paper. That is good news. But the Utkin paper is very sparse with explanations for mere mortals and greenhorns like me. So please keep teching us! Thanks for your commitment!
rgds John
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  #1574  
Old 11-28-2011, 07:46 PM
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Spark generation

Hi all,
studying a bunch of very differnt schematics I am often confused by the method of the spark generation - mostly not explained. There is a big range out there from brute force energy waste to very smooth high frequency sparks. Sad to see a lot of vids with unfortunate spark generation. I vote the spark type to be essential and therefore I'd like to share my first notions. Please consult the attachment:
Attachment 9704
Tests were performed with a simple L1 coil (100mm air core / 55 turns).
Direct self triggerd sparks (schematics A1-A5)
These are self triggering sparks generated directly from the half or full wave rectified signal.
Mains frequency (sine / schematic A1-A3):
These sparks do not like to occure regularly. Especially if the output is sine from mains (A1-A3). The best behavior was when the voltage was reduced to minimum while the sparks still trigger. As the spark ends at zero crossing the duration is quite long and surprisingly the L1 coil does not oscillate. It oscillates if sparks are of short duration only. At longer timed sparks there is one cycle only and no L1 oscillation. Tesla coilers state that this is because the energy is being reflected back and at just that time the spark stops.
At fw rectifier and brute force spark sometimes the spark burns continuously like a welder. This is because the short time of zero crossing is too short in order the plasma to discharge. Such a spark does make no sense apart from fun for pyrotechnic hobbyists.

Medium frequency NST (ca. 40 KHz/ schematic A4,A5)
I had no NST of this type available but tested different CCFL PSU. The behavior is better but still no regular triggering.

Spark from preloaded capacitor (schematic B1)
- Small capacitor added at previous schematics. Before this action the sparks started with a tired glow discharge and there is no pep in it. With added (small) capacitor it discharges instantly and without that glow before and this is what we expect it to do.
Needless to mention that not every coiled capacitor is able to dischasrge abruptly - but this is essential. (low ESR required)
- At A type schematics above the output from the HV PSU was unloaded (high impedance) before every spark and I assume that the high impedance causes undefined voltage spikes and this causes very unregular sparks. The capacitor C is now a defined load and any spike will be absorbed by the capacitor prior the trigger time.
- The capacitor needs to be tuned thoroughly. Too small values do not overcome the glow discharge while too big capacitors do not charge fast enough. If they discharge - there is often this "one cycle behavior" referred above. It is suffitient if the capacitor charges during one single pulse up to the spark event.
- I got nice oscilaltions with 100pF and 2 KV. At Mains frequency the repetition is too rarely. With 40 KHz the next pulse occures before the oscillation stopped. I got similar oscillation like Blue_Serge some posts ago.

Sparks triggerd externaly (schematics C1,2)
I admit that I did test this yet with mains only.
The basic idea is to have a smooth DC HV voltage and trigger the spark (usually a flash tube) at predefined time.
- If the HV source is of low (like foto flash light) power the flash discharges the capacitor, stops and the sequence can start after recharge and trigger again.
- If the HV source is of suffitient power the spark (flash tube) does not stop and we have a welder. (see above). In this case a series resistor or coil is inserted and a second capacitor (C2) to GND (see schematic C1). The capacitor C2 determines the flash energy and the Resistor (coil) prevents a too high current in order the spark can stop.
- Please regard the C2 schematic - Zilano style. This is waht I will test next in order to unterstand it's behavior. This is a mix between B1 and C1. The inductance replaces the resistor from C1.

Spark triggered by resonance (D)
This is still a secret to me. (therefore no schematic). The basic idea is that at every single oscillation amplitude a corresponding spark adds additional energy (increasing oscillations). These sparks need to be tuned well and brute force is a no go.
No idea how some sparks of mains frequency can do this requested behavior. Same at 40 KHz like blue serge. Maybe I'm wrong.
Aniway - from the Utkin paper I learned that there are some different "mechnics" producing OU and the OU behavior can be introduced at different points in the schematic - and they can be combined as well. I urge you to study Utkin and diskuss & share. I feel it to be essential to discern the different "mechanics" and address them clearly in the schematics.

Further studies planned
- Zilano style spark (see C2)
- Manufactoring of some coils (somehow standardized similar to LEGOkit - cw,ccw, bifilar ...) proposed by Zilano and Utkin and study and test of their behavior and interaction.
rgds John
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  #1575  
Old 11-28-2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
Make your L2 coils like this, out of ribbon conductor the angle should be 51.83


The electric field of a magnet
Hi Dave45,
please explain in detail.
- Are all ends of the ribbon tied together?
- I did not find a relation to the mentioned thread. What special effect expected?
rgds John
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  #1576  
Old 11-28-2011, 07:56 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Hi Zilano or others who can help I'm using the middle variable capacitor for the joule thief is this ok?
Am I connecting it rightly to those marked connections?
Still striving with this joule thief
Any help please?
Thanks
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  #1577  
Old 11-28-2011, 07:57 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
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Hi Dave45,
please explain in detail. Are all ends of the ribbon tied together?
rgds John
The electric field of a magnet
read this page, too long to explain
thanx
dave
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  #1578  
Old 11-28-2011, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue_Serge View Post
@JohnStone

Here is the circuit I used and demonstrated in the video.

@T-1000
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll work towards getting a ringing up wave pattern.
If you are asking what the input power and out power on my system, the system input is 240W and output I don't yet. I use for now a 100W bulb to see if there is work being done.
Hi Blue_Serge,
is your HV PSU connected avramenko style - no GND?
rgds John
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  #1579  
Old 11-28-2011, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Hi Zilano or others who can help I'm using the middle variable capacitor for the joule thief is this ok?
Am I connecting it rightly to those marked connections?
Still striving with this joule thief
Any help please?
Thanks
Hi Guruji,
usually the contacts are at side fins or at back and not at front side. Do it quick and dirty and find (measure) contacts not being connected internally. If you connect the device to your joule thief the hissing noise should change.

@ALL: If you have no variable capacitor available try this: use two heatsinks Attachment 9707
Nest them together with the fins but insert plastic foil before. As you slide them regarding each other you change the capacitance. Needles to say: connect wires
rgrds John
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  #1580  
Old 11-29-2011, 01:22 AM
hello_all hello_all is offline
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thanks john u are nifty...
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  #1581  
Old 11-29-2011, 05:20 AM
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Hi Guruji,
usually the contacts are at side fins or at back and not at front side. Do it quick and dirty and find (measure) contacts not being connected internally. If you connect the device to your joule thief the hissing noise should change.

@ALL: If you have no variable capacitor available try this: use two heatsinks Attachment 9707
Nest them together with the fins but insert plastic foil before. As you slide them regarding each other you change the capacitance. Needles to say: connect wires
rgrds John
Thanks John. Cool idea
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  #1582  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:45 AM
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precisely

@JohnStone

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Originally Posted by JohnStone View Post
Spark triggered by resonance (D)
This is still a secret to me. (therefore no schematic). The basic idea is that at every single oscillation amplitude a corresponding spark adds additional energy (increasing oscillations). These sparks need to be tuned well and brute force is a no go.
No idea how some sparks of mains frequency can do this requested behavior. Same at 40 KHz like blue serge. Maybe I'm wrong.
Aniway - from the Utkin paper I learned that there are some different "mechnics" producing OU and the OU behavior can be introduced at different points in the schematic - and they can be combined as well. I urge you to study Utkin and diskuss & share. I feel it to be essential to discern the different "mechanics" and address them clearly in the schematics.
Thanks for this post John. I just got spark *big milestone*, but now am thinking about the quality of the wave and the timing of the spark. So, in this way, we are on the same page.

Re: sparks triggered by resonance. This is what I have been working towards. I have built powerlabs flyback driver circuit show here... POWERLABS' High Voltage Solid State Flyback Driver.

You can wire it easily with a terminal block and Radioshack parts. This is a resonant circuit that delivers short pulses through a transistor to a flyback transformer. Once per cycle powered from DC 12V. The author states that this resonant behavior is responsible for large voltage gain between L1 and L2 of the flyback. :-) This may be OU by itself.

So what's next for me? I have a B&W 80 turn coil and I've already constructed a 10 turn bifilar with a center tap for harvesting, so I think these are my options...

Option A: Tune the B&W 80 turn coil to ring at the flyback frequency and drive it directly off the flyback. I scoped this and it's around 40khz. This could work, but then I've eliminated the spark gap from the circuit. And Z has said specifically that transistors cannot produce the OU effect because they are current operated. Still not sure what to think about this.

@Z... what do you think of the solid-state tesla coilers??? Why transistors not capable of this effect?


Option B: Tune the flyback L2 to match the B&W. This is tantalizingly easy, just put a capacitor across the L2 coil. But I'm worried this will be harder than I think. My RLC meter allows me to take L readings at different frequencies. i.e. 100Hz, 1khz, 10khz. The L values are radically different depending on the frequency. Therefore the required capacitance is hard to calculate. I think the required capacitance is between 1-5 pF to get this to ring around 30khz. I ordered a 25kV variable capacitor off of eBay (expensive) to try this out. But the capacitor is from 3pF-50pF. Might not go low enough. Will let you know how this goes if I pursue it.


Option C: Replace resonant flyback driver with fixed freq inductive driver.
This would be something like a 2n3055 amplifier that follows an input signal. I could use an oscilloscope function generator to fix the frequency @ around 30khz. In this case, I won't get resonant rise in the flyback, so the gain will be through induction only and therefore less than I'm getting now... but it should be about 5000V based on the ratio of windings. Also, this will also consume more source power, but whatever. I get the frequency I want. Then to a diode for rectified output from the flyback. Then to the gap. And then... to another diode. And finally to the top of my coil.

30khz @ 6V signal >>> power amp flyback driver >>> flyback transformer >>> half-wave rectifier >>> spark gap >>> diode >>> top of L1

In this setup, I believe the second diode is key, because I want the spark to jump the gap when the top of the coil is at high potential. Without the diode, the downstream side of the gap would also be at high potential and the gap wouldn't fire. So add the diode to keep the downstream side of the gap at low potential and fire away at the peak to get resonant rise. I believe the other key is to use potentiometers on the power amp flyback driver so that I can adjust the timing of the spark. The width of the gap will also play a factor in the timing.

Once this is all working, I think I could just replace the function generator with a choke sitting next to the L1 B&W. The choke would go to a voltage divider to get a 6V signal that's in phase. And probably adjust the tuning a bit again.


Option D: Just step it down.
Z said that you need an emitter coil, resonant collector coil, and a harvest coil (or words to that effect). So if I'm already getting resonant rise from this funky flyback driver, i should be able to just step down the voltage. Because it's high frequency, i need to use an air or ferrite coil. I've ordered a second, identical flyback transformer that I'll connect in reverse. Then I'll add an emitter coil L2 and drive this into a high-frequency full-wave bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor for DC. I should get more DC out than in and closing the loop here should be trivial. HMMM. This maybe the best idea yet.

@Z... What do you think of option D????


John... I hope that advances your thoughts about resonant triggering of the spark gap. Thanks so much for your brilliant diagrams / illustrations and for capturing so many of the options discussed so far.

Thoughts and feedback welcome and appreciated.


Shine
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  #1583  
Old 11-29-2011, 09:39 AM
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Hi jharmon,
thanks for sharing your bunch of thoughts. It`s a lot to study. I will come back regarding this material if my brain digested this food a bit.
I will do this with the Utkin paper in mind. I feel this is a kind of "shelf" where the notions can be stored in a proper order.
rgds John
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  #1584  
Old 11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
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PWM controller

Hi ALL;
just dismantling my old cordless screwdriver. There you find a PWM controller of about 15 KHz. It is battery operated (if you want to) and fits to inductive loads. Just replace the motor with the FB primary winding. But keep in mind that if you have very few windings the inductivity may tend to be a short circuit at this fixed frequency. In this case add a corresponding power resistor in series between controller and winding. This is exactly like at car ignition coils with low inductance - they have a resistor in series.
I admit this might not be the optimum but an easy way to start experimenting and helps low funded experimenters.
rgds John
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  #1585  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:04 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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VCaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnStone View Post
Hi Guruji,
usually the contacts are at side fins or at back and not at front side. Do it quick and dirty and find (measure) contacts not being connected internally. If you connect the device to your joule thief the hissing noise should change.

@ALL: If you have no variable capacitor available try this: use two heatsinks Attachment 9707
Nest them together with the fins but insert plastic foil before. As you slide them regarding each other you change the capacitance. Needles to say: connect wires
rgrds John
Thanks John for your help I'm still waiting for my mosfets from abroad. Looking forward to build Don's Device.
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  #1586  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:20 PM
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Simple overunity

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnStone View Post
Hi Gedfire,
please specify "see this work"! What works? A bulb, a voltmeter?

I built it like the schematic today and saw it not working. 6/8" coppertube 10" long, slotted, 80 turns of magnet wire. The natural oscillation of the coil is about 3 MHz.
- no volt, no bulb lighting
- same with diode and capacitor at output.
- same when adding ring magnets around the rod.

I believe in OU so I am not discouraged. What is wrong?
rgds John
Hello JohnStone,


I got a neon bulb to work.Original work was by Lorrie Matchet who has some really good stuff on her channel at youtube.

It was not built exactly like Zilano's version.But you do get power.

See pics.

Ged
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg image 2.jpg (263.7 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg lorrie device.jpg (15.8 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg overview 2.jpg (227.5 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg working device.jpg (195.9 KB, 84 views)
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:19 PM
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[QUOTE=zilano;169111]remember spark is ac and we need hv dc to trigger coil+cap. in sr we use 3rd diode to provide hvdc. in don we provide hv dc to coil+cap so we dont use 3rd diode in don case.

a coil is triggered into self oscillation when a pulse of hv dc is fed instantaneously and only a spark can do that. the hv dc thus injected make it oscillate. even a coil without cap can be oscillated coz it has parasitic capacitor between its turns. so actually a simple coil is an lc circuit. parasitic capacitance can be increased by winding turns apart and normally the pvc insulation does that. in don case the coils r naked so we have to wind them spaced apart. resonance can be achieved in don case by sliding primary within secondary with secondary middle point earthed.




Hi Zilano,
thanks for the hints.
Z: "a coil is triggered into self oscillation when a pulse of hv dc is fed instantaneously and only a spark can do that."
Yes I understand. some of my tests produced AC spark!
Z:"the hv dc thus injected make it oscillate. even a coil without cap can be oscillated coz it has parasitic capacitor between its turns. so actually a simple coil is an lc circuit. parasitic capacitance can be increased by winding turns apart and normally the pvc insulation does that. in don case the coils r naked so we have to wind them spaced apart. "
Yes, I saw that. My test coil is about 50 turns 4 times wire diameter apart and I measured about 3 MHz of natural self resonance. I will try speaker twin cable (thin one - not the jumbo one)

Question to the SR-circuit: Is the GND at PSU really the only one? Is it Avramenko type?
rgds John
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:48 PM
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JohnStone JohnStone is offline
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Hi Jharmon,
please find my comments and questions inserted in your text in bold letters. As I mentioned - there are notions and I'm shure that some need discussion. Don't take me too seriously
rgds John

[QUOTE=jharmon;169125]@JohnStone
......


You can wire it easily with a terminal block and Radioshack parts. This is a resonant circuit that delivers short pulses through a transistor to a flyback transformer. Once per cycle powered from DC 12V. The author states that this resonant behavior is responsible for large voltage gain between L1 and L2 of the flyback. :-) This may be OU by itself.
[- Sorry, I doubt it is resonance - my notion. These circuits are called quasi resonant. It is a self ringer Meissner oscillator. The timing is not given by L/C of any coil but by current increase and decrease while producing base current in the extra winding. There is a schematic out there (russian origin, English translation) where they explain how they measured the natural frequency and how thy tuned it. Unfortunately I lost the link because my PC decided on behalf of Microsoft to restart after an update. Nevertheless it is desirable to get the flyback output coil in resonance (i.e. capacitor in parallel to output winding - see). I still study this matter.
- I do not know how they calculated the resistors at power labs. Please note that transistors get lazy and hot if they have not their optimum base current. First step is to play with resistors in order to get low CE voltage at switch on time (scope) and not more current than necessary. Later on you can fine tune for a specific supply voltage and load for best steep switching slopes.
- Fortunately I have my FB ready - but not build myself. 40 KHz up to 35 KV]


So what's next for me? I have a B&W 80 turn coil and I've already constructed a 10 turn bifilar with a center tap for harvesting, so I think these are my options...
[- What is the magic of B&W coils? At that price there need to be some. Are they cold drawn and tinned. Tin is told to increase the magnetic flux by 4 at same current.
- Your 10 turn harvest coil is cw or cw/ccw or true bifilar Tesla like. Zilano normally prefers cw only but at last schematics she proposed cw/ccw like Utkin paper. I decided to build both and learn by measurement.
BTW: I intend to post next week my stupid simple coil winding jig - simple but effective. Continue to build after this post.]


Option A: Tune the B&W 80 turn coil to ring at the flyback frequency and drive it directly off the flyback. I scoped this and it's around 40khz. This could work, but then I've eliminated the spark gap from the circuit. And Z has said specifically that transistors cannot produce the OU effect because they are current operated. Still not sure what to think about this.

@Z... what do you think of the solid-state tesla coilers??? Why transistors not capable of this effect?
[It seem to be essential what "mechanic" you intend to employ and what your goal is. Tesla coilers do not intend to get OU but electric fire and they are willing to pay their bill. We are tightfisted and want not to.
Confirming Utkin you can get OU with CW/CCW and short circuit without sparks.
But if you intend to increase ocillation energy cycle by cycle you need a spark and only a spark.
And you can add different OU effects at same time (read Utkin!) You find most of Z's proposals there! I inted to study one efect after the other. The combination of OU effects in the posted schematics is too confusing for me.
Sorry for my stammering but this seems to be the direction.]



Option B: Tune the flyback L2 to match the B&W. This is tantalizingly easy, just put a capacitor across the L2 coil. [Confused: What L2? from FB or Don Smith?] But I'm worried this will be harder than I think. My RLC meter allows me to take L readings at different frequencies. i.e. 100Hz, 1khz, 10khz. The L values are radically different depending on the frequency. Therefore the required capacitance is hard to calculate. I think the required capacitance is between 1-5 pF to get this to ring around 30khz. I ordered a 25kV variable capacitor off of eBay (expensive) to try this out. But the capacitor is from 3pF-50pF. Might not go low enough. Will let you know how this goes if I pursue it.
[- Would be great help is you referred to a schematic. My test coil (50 turns on 100mm air core resonates at about 3 MHz. Very unlikely that you get any change with some pF. 1 pF is a smack of nothing.
- I posted yeasterday a suggestion for home brew variable capacitor with heat sinks. Today I add another suggestion: Laminate Al foil inbetween these -you know - double sided laminating foils. You can do it with a flatiron if you happen to have no apparatus for this. Let nn edge or a Al tape come out before laminating for contact. Make two of them minimum and position them one over the other. If you have problems with voltage laminate twice. I got easily a 3 nF fixed capacitor with a stack of these. ]



Option C: Replace resonant flyback driver with fixed freq inductive driver.
This would be something like a 2n3055 amplifier that follows an input signal. I could use an oscilloscope function generator to fix the frequency @ around 30khz. [Have you got an old audio amplifier? They are good down to 4 Ohm and 25 KHz.] In this case, I won't get resonant rise in the flyback, so the gain will be through induction only and therefore less than I'm getting now... but it should be about 5000V based on the ratio of windings. Also, this will also consume more source power, but whatever. I get the frequency I want. Then to a diode for rectified output from the flyback. Then to the gap. And then... to another diode. And finally to the top of my coil.

30khz @ 6V signal >>> power amp flyback driver >>> flyback transformer >>> half-wave rectifier >>> spark gap >>> diode >>> top of L1

In this setup, I believe the second diode is key, because I want the spark to jump the gap when the top of the coil is at high potential. Without the diode, the downstream side of the gap would also be at high potential and the gap wouldn't fire. So add the diode to keep the downstream side of the gap at low potential and fire away at the peak to get resonant rise. I believe the other key is to use potentiometers on the power amp flyback driver so that I can adjust the timing of the spark. The width of the gap will also play a factor in the timing.

Once this is all working, I think I could just replace the function generator with a choke sitting next to the L1 B&W. The choke would go to a voltage divider to get a 6V signal that's in phase. And probably adjust the tuning a bit again.


Option D: Just step it down. [Seems to be a case of dilignece if we got OU before. This is why I will build a set of coils and study their behavior in different schamatics.]
Z said that you need an emitter coil, resonant collector coil, and a harvest coil (or words to that effect)[See Utkin paper!]. So if I'm already getting resonant rise from this funky flyback driver, i should be able to just step down the voltage. Because it's high frequency, i need to use an air or ferrite coil. I've ordered a second, identical flyback transformer that I'll connect in reverse. Then I'll add an emitter coil L2 and drive this into a high-frequency full-wave bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor for DC. I should get more DC out than in and closing the loop here should be trivial. HMMM. This maybe the best idea yet.

[Have you got any means to draw schematics. It will be a great help for diskussions. I use KiCad. It is easy to generate own symbols needed for our dicussions as well.]
........
[QUOTE]
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Last edited by JohnStone; 11-30-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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  #1589  
Old 11-29-2011, 11:56 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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A Wesley and friends movie

Wesley
Quote:

NEW VIDEO AFTER CORRECTIONS:

LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf - YouTube


[size=0.9166em]
[/size]
[size=0.9166em][size=1.8333em]
[size=0.9166em]LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf[/size]
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  #1590  
Old 11-30-2011, 12:20 AM
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JohnStone JohnStone is offline
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Seems to be private only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post
Wesley
Quote:

NEW VIDEO AFTER CORRECTIONS:

LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf - YouTube


[size=0.9166em]
[/size]
[size=0.9166em][size=1.8333em]
[size=0.9166em]LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf[/size]
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