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  #1501  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:40 PM
frankidel frankidel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
@Kokomojo I think this explains why The Energy Non-Crisis
and Confessions of an Economic Hit Man - YouTube
Be advised that if this pre publication release courtisy of overunity.com is as I read it then every question relating to Don Smiths devices is answered in this paper by Utkin 62 pages of Vladimir Utkin by Patrick Kelly Everything we have been searching

If this remarkable document does not result in a working Smith Device very quickly I shall be shocked and stunned!! Tiger's initial research shows It to be has written!
Hi, there is more infos in this document than the previous one that i read, especially with the capacitor of smith ( wiht sheet of aluminium and copper, pay attention to the plastic, i think that all electrons resides on this platic or glass. See the mit video on youtube, it's called dissectible capacitor from mit. MIT Physics Demo -- Dissectible Capacitor - YouTube
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  #1502  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:51 PM
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On the scope....

Ghanza is helping us on the thread I am following (which is actually a reproduction of Tariel Ks off shoot to the ferrite incarnation) still the foundation is common Ghanza is working as proxy for Tiger to help with language aggro... here is his initial scope shot Tiger's Device 0.150-1Kwt replicant as per Utkin .. we are all after the same thing and I dont care who gets it out of the cage first! I hope it inspires .. off back to my own stomping ground.....best wishes Duncan
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Last edited by Duncan; 11-22-2011 at 10:10 PM.
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  #1503  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:10 PM
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Another Utkin link

http://www.free-energy-info.com/VladimirUtkin.pdf

Chet
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  #1504  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:16 PM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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This part of this document Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices - Chapter 5 is False,


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and here is why,

In this very legitimate document below the core of that transformer is wood and
NOT ferrite. Notice the "W" which is marked on the rod in the original drawing below
is removed in the Kelly document. Looks to me like Tesla's Transformer had a
wooden core.

And the interrupter spark gap goes between the two primary coils not where
the line points to, If people read the document linked right below starting at
Page 203 he describes in detail how the coil and circuit were used and the
purpose of the spark gaps.

Page 208 The inventions, researches and writings of Nikola Tesla, with special reference to his work in polyphase currents and high potential lighting : Martin, Thomas Commerford, 1856-1924 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive



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Quote:
The primary p p is wound in two parts, and oppositely, upon
a wooden spool w, and.the four ends are led out of the oil through
hard rubber tubes t t. The ends of the secondary Tt Tt are also
led out of the oil through rubber tubes t tv of great thickness.
And this is the real circuit he used with it for the experiments in the document.



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Last edited by Farmhand; 11-22-2011 at 10:20 PM.
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  #1505  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:27 PM
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edit

if so farmhand ..suggest email PJK prior to publication so edit can be made! remember he's working on the edge all the time! still well researched!... Hell think of what Tesla would have got up to with ferrite!!! he's left enough with brass and wood!
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Last edited by Duncan; 11-22-2011 at 10:39 PM.
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  #1506  
Old 11-22-2011, 11:07 PM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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if so farmhand ..suggest email PJK prior to publication so edit can be made! remember he's working on the edge all the time! still well researched!... Hell think of what Tesla would have got up to with ferrite!!! he's left enough with brass and wood!
Did you read the document I linked ? Or did you close your mind to that ?

The spark gap is wrong too.

I've already built a coil like that. This shows only one completed coil. It's not
finished, both coils are now wound and I am using it now.



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I use it for a HV supply to run two Tesla coils with primaries in series to
do the same thing which is make double the voltage between the two
terminals than is the voltage between each terminal to ground.

Like this below the HV supply is on the left and P1 and P2 are the Tesla coil primaries.



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With that arrangement i can get all kinds of effects to observe like these.



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Uploaded with ImageShack.us



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Some video.
Streamer experiment.wmv - YouTube

I don't use the Kelly document because there is so many things in there which
are contradictory and wrong. This is but one instance there are way too
many to say. They are modifying Original drawings and saying that is how
they are and what they mean. I do my own research and experiment to
ascertain what I can say is truth for myself. I study Tesla's work and Crookes
to name two.

That's the problem with people allowing themselves to be spoon fed the yummy stuff.
Chocolate tastes good but it rots the teeth.
Then the real food hurts.

Cheers
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Last edited by Farmhand; 11-22-2011 at 11:16 PM.
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  #1507  
Old 11-22-2011, 11:37 PM
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Tomorrow belongs to me! Tesla

I noted the pages and errors in the document , but I doubt PJK would insert error with intent, however back in the day .. Teslas papers were,hidden changed and altered,and dublicated all those miss-directions are just as effective now as they were then.Its like trying to see through fog. The question is would the PJK book be subject to intentional miss-direction ? I personnaly doubt it, but I certainly would not swear to it.
If a genuine error then to correct it helps everyone. Still so far... The work carried out on the Utkin paper is following his predictions ... this thread and others will very soon establish the validity or not! I expect scope shots that match Tigers within days if nor hours.. from there its downhill
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  #1508  
Old 11-22-2011, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
I noted the pages and errors in the document , but I doubt PJK would insert error with intent, however back in the day .. Teslas papers were,hidden changed and altered,and dublicated all those miss-directions are just as effective now as they were then.Its like trying to see through fog. The question is would the PJK book be subject to intentional miss-direction ? I personnaly doubt it, but I certainly would not swear to it.
If a genuine error then to correct it helps everyone. Still so far... The work carried out on the Utkin paper is following his predictions ... this thread and others will very soon establish the validity or not! I expect scope shots that match Tigers within days if nor hours.. from there its downhill
I don't like to think anyone would intentionally mislead, I try not to think
about that and just keep on experimenting and thinking about the tech.

If I see things I think are wrong or in error I think I should say something,
rather than nothing, if there is an explanation then good. If not so be it.

I might be misunderstanding the intent. If so I will apologize, I think the book I
linked should have been linked with that section of the Kelly doc. Anyway I
just thought I should point that out. I don't like to draw too many conclusions
and we can all come to our own conclusions if we have all the info. I do
wonder why though.

I do believe we can tap energy too. And we do. I read Russell as well as Tesla
and Crookes.

Cheers
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Last edited by Farmhand; 11-23-2011 at 08:02 AM.
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  #1509  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:04 AM
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Like anything, you have to sort through all the "krap" to find the grain of truth and build from that truth. Like Farmhand says, do the work then learn from it.
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  #1510  
Old 11-23-2011, 03:10 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Originally Posted by jharmon View Post
@Z
Have powerlabs flyback driver and flyback coil working. Getting 40khz or so with gap firing. Need to tune this for 35khz.

Powerlabs docs say this is a resonant circuit, but how to tune it... caps across emitter coil, trigger coil, collector coil, or a combo?

I could prolly figure it out, but hints welcome. :-)
As expected... parallel gap, caps, and coil yields nothing. Dead short bcause freq is out of tune.

BUT... series gap to top of coil with no other changes gives spark and RF off the coil. I'm not sure what this is ringing at yet, but there's a chance that this is precisely what the doctor ordered. Didn't even need an "avramenko" capacitor. And no ground here. Just a single loop.

FLYBACK-TOP>>>DIODE>>>GAP>>>CAPS&COIL>>>FLYBACK-BOTTOM

Not sure what to do now, but I'm excited that my neon in hand glows when I bring it close to the primary coil. :-)

And I like that I'm shooting the coil with the energy through the gap. Seems like the right idea. Some say resonance. Some say gap. I say... why not both? If the gap really creates extra energy, it will be contained within the system or radiated as longitudinal pulses and transverse waves at radio frequency.

What's the best way to measure the RF coming off the primary coil?
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  #1511  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:05 AM
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The image mentioned has reference letters R, S, T, etc. so there appears no real basis for assuming that because an item has the letter W assigned to it that the letter refers to the material from which the item is constructed rather than being just a reference letter.

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here, the Utkin document is a report by Vladimir on his on-going investigations in this area. I have no input al all other than to help out slightly with the English language which is not Vladimir's native tongue. When Vladimir expresses his opinion on the rod joining the two sets of coils in that diagram, I understand him to be attempting to indicate that in his opinion, the central core has magnetic properties.

Personally, I seriously doubt that Tesla had access to ferrite as we know it today, but that is not likely to have prevented him in using a magnetic material as the core.

In the days when plastic was not widespread, winding coils on spools made from wood does not appear to be unreasonable. However, the material of the spool does not indicate the material used for the core running through that spool.

Please understand that Vladimir Utkin's document is not intended to be the final and definitive word on this technology, but instead it is his generous sharing of his current research work, and you will notice that it ends

"TO BE CONTINUED ..."
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  #1512  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
The image mentioned has reference letters R, S, T, etc. so there appears no real basis for assuming that because an item has the letter W assigned to it that the letter refers to the material from which the item is constructed rather than being just a reference letter.

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here, the Utkin document is a report by Vladimir on his on-going investigations in this area. I have no input al all other than to help out slightly with the English language which is not Vladimir's native tongue. When Vladimir expresses his opinion on the rod joining the two sets of coils in that diagram, I understand him to be attempting to indicate that in his opinion, the central core has magnetic properties.

Personally, I seriously doubt that Tesla had access to ferrite as we know it today, but that is not likely to have prevented him in using a magnetic material as the core.

In the days when plastic was not widespread, winding coils on spools made from wood does not appear to be unreasonable. However, the material of the spool does not indicate the material used for the core running through that spool.

Please understand that Vladimir Utkin's document is not intended to be the final and definitive word on this technology, but instead it is his generous sharing of his current research work, and you will notice that it ends

"TO BE CONTINUED ..."

Thank you very much Patrick Kelly for this amazing contribution, Sir , some informations presented have shade some light on many people's questions....It will prove a great source of inspiration and further improvement of future devises...Thank you again sir and Mr Utkin for this great contribution
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  #1513  
Old 11-23-2011, 12:47 PM
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lest you anger the gods...

If you recall the name Patrick I spent some time circa seven years years ago helping you with a few diss links on a pre publication edit, anyway It goes without saying I am a huge admirer of your amazing tome. It was without doubt the influence that triggered a most interesting study.
The fact that I indicated... I would not swear to miss-direction by intent... Is simply a mathematical option, and certainly not my personal feeling, That you have sorted out the Ps and Qs and Ws for that matter is most kind! If my wording has caused your heckles to rise ...sorry.
I still consider this remarkable document to be most important to this thread which is why I linked to it!
It is very nice of you to indicate who is responsible for what!.... and the parts you have played in its production and editing. It does unearth a huge amount of theory! (a lot of it very new)And if there is more to come .. well blessings on Utkin ! Nice to have you on thread Patrick in future I shall take more care with my own Ps and Qs lest I anger the giant's! Best wishes Duncan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
The image mentioned has reference letters R, S, T, etc. so there appears no real basis for assuming that because an item has the letter W assigned to it that the letter refers to the material from which the item is constructed rather than being just a reference letter.

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here, the Utkin document is a report by Vladimir on his on-going investigations in this area. I have no input al all other than to help out slightly with the English language which is not Vladimir's native tongue. When Vladimir expresses his opinion on the rod joining the two sets of coils in that diagram, I understand him to be attempting to indicate that in his opinion, the central core has magnetic properties.

Personally, I seriously doubt that Tesla had access to ferrite as we know it today, but that is not likely to have prevented him in using a magnetic material as the core.

In the days when plastic was not widespread, winding coils on spools made from wood does not appear to be unreasonable. However, the material of the spool does not indicate the material used for the core running through that spool.

Please understand that Vladimir Utkin's document is not intended to be the final and definitive word on this technology, but instead it is his generous sharing of his current research work, and you will notice that it ends

"TO BE CONTINUED ..."
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  #1514  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:25 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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That was very good!!

Mr.Kelly
Thank you sir!!
The boys on these threads [and Mrs. DB]will be helping to Add
some more pages to your work!!

Thanks
Chet
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  #1515  
Old 11-23-2011, 03:19 PM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
The image mentioned has reference letters R, S, T, etc. so there appears no real basis for assuming that because an item has the letter W assigned to it that the letter refers to the material from which the item is constructed rather than being just a reference letter.

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here, the Utkin document is a report by Vladimir on his on-going investigations in this area. I have no input al all other than to help out slightly with the English language which is not Vladimir's native tongue. When Vladimir expresses his opinion on the rod joining the two sets of coils in that diagram, I understand him to be attempting to indicate that in his opinion, the central core has magnetic properties.

Personally, I seriously doubt that Tesla had access to ferrite as we know it today, but that is not likely to have prevented him in using a magnetic material as the core.

In the days when plastic was not widespread, winding coils on spools made from wood does not appear to be unreasonable. However, the material of the spool does not indicate the material used for the core running through that spool.

Please understand that Vladimir Utkin's document is not intended to be the final and definitive word on this technology, but instead it is his generous sharing of his current research work, and you will notice that it ends

"TO BE CONTINUED ..."
Hi Patrick, It seems pretty clear to me by that drawing that the primary coils
are wound directly onto "W", which is to me clearly stated in the document I
quoted from. "Upon a wooden spool "W"", "W" is obviously the spool it looks
like a dowel to me. Like I said people can make their own conclusions. There is
no mention of any ferromagnetic material in the core and considering the
detail given in the document I linked I don't see how that would be just left
out by them.

The inventions, researches and writings of Nikola Tesla, with special reference to his work in polyphase currents and high potential lighting : Martin, Thomas Commerford, 1856-1924 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Quote:
The primary p p is wound in two parts, and oppositely, upon
a wooden spool w
, and.the four ends are led out of the oil through
hard rubber tubes t t. The ends of the secondary Tt Tt are also
led out of the oil through rubber tubes t tv of great thickness.


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The drawings used were obviously the same ones, and it is also described in
the document the arrangement of the circuit, the spark gap the line points to
in your document is a gap with Mica sheets on either side and a long spark
plays there till the updraft created by it blows the spark out then the main
gap fires, it is at small (a) (b), the magnetic quenched gap was not used where
indicated at large (A) (B) as explained in the document I linked.

This is my opinion on that transformer and circuit.

Regards
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Last edited by Farmhand; 11-23-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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  #1516  
Old 11-23-2011, 05:17 PM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Wait!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Nice design.
1. But what freq?

2. DC Step up from 4.5V to 350V?

3. I don't quite understand where the HV pulse comes from and where it goes.


Will study. Tips welcome!
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  #1517  
Old 11-24-2011, 04:06 AM
nightwind nightwind is offline
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@Zilano

Am I reading this correctly? Mixing 350 VDC w/ 2KVAC ? If yes, how are you mixing the different voltages on the L1 coil. Are there two separate L1 windings?

2KV - Your red arrow. Is this the 2KV (plus +) connection point?

I agree with jharmon, don't leave so soon. There is plenty of room for you

Thanks

If this works, Mr Kelly will want to put this in his book too.
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Last edited by nightwind; 11-24-2011 at 04:10 AM.
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  #1518  
Old 11-24-2011, 08:33 AM
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@Zilano
In the drawing it looks like the 2k hv is shorted to ground.
Is this a mistake?.

Agree with all other guys, do not leave, enough food for thoughts needed
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  #1519  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:00 PM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haan View Post
Hi Farmhand,

what document does that page come from?.
Good question, very good question, I would like to review that document as well,
unfortunately I can't remember where I got the image, I'll try to find out.
I think I copied it from a post because it was a clearer image.

The text and drawing seem to match the words from the other book I linked.
The inventions, researches and writings of Nikola Tesla, with special reference to his work in polyphase currents and high potential lighting : Martin, Thomas Commerford, 1856-1924 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

But the drawing is on white backing not brownish like the above book. And the
figure number is different so it is a page from a different book for sure.
I think It will contain exactly the same info though, I'll investigate to see if I
can locate the source of it. It may be a different publication of the same
book. Or part thereof.

This passage of text is taken from page 204 of the book I linked above there is more there about it.
But the drawing is on page 203, figure 131.


Quote:
the same brilliancy, and are accompanied by the
same sharp crackling sound, as those obtained from a friction or
influence machine.
Another way is to pass through two primary circuits, having a
common secondary, two currents of a slightly different period,
which produce in the secondary circuit sparks occurring at comparatively
long intervals. But, even with the means at hand
this evening, I may succeed in imitating the spark of a Holtz
machine. For this purpose I establish between the terminals of
the coil which charges the condenser a long, unsteady arc, which
is periodically interrupted by the upward current of air produced
by it. To increase the current of air I place on each side of the
arc, and close to it, a large plate of mica. The condenser charged
from this coil discharges into the primary circuit of a second
coil through a small air gap, which is necessary to produce a
sudden rush of current through the primary. The scheme of
connections in the present experiment is indicated in Fig. 131.
G is an ordinarily constructed alternator, supplying the primary
P of an induction coil, the secondary s of which
I think it will be a different book without most of the preceding devices that
the book I linked has, but the info on that transformer will be the same.

The book I linked has an awesome amount of valuable information in it, but it is
difficult to read I admit.

Cheers
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  #1520  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haan View Post
Hi Farmhand,

what document does that page come from?.
I have found a copy at:
http://www.hvlabs.com/files/teslaexperiments.pdf
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  #1521  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbem View Post
Awesome that would be the book. Easy to read too. Thanks for that.
Much appreciated.

I got a similar discharge to described with a large supply capacitor 1270 uF
and quite wide spark gap so the discharge was very powerful like
gunshots and slow, I remarked that it sounded like a gatling gun.

I arranged the circuit so that the voltage in the supply cap for the HV supply
coil increased until the point was reached when the gap fired, this charged the
primary caps to over well over 4000 volts at 20 nF through the primary
depending on the spark gap width.

Enjoy. if your speakers are loud it might hurt your ears.

50 mm Lightning.wmv - YouTube

Spark demo dead neon.wmv - YouTube

Cheers
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  #1522  
Old 11-24-2011, 01:52 PM
Dfortune Dfortune is offline
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Xenon tube

Found this kit,maybe it could be adapt in @Z circuit.
12v Strobe red/blue xenon flash modules - Round colored 6v, 5v car
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  #1523  
Old 11-24-2011, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
not shorted. green circuit and red circuit two separate circuits. hv does not join ground. it goes to diode directly.
Thank you for answering!
So I guess the other cable of the hv circuit is attached to the other end of the Xenon bulb?
Did you use bifilar coils?
What caps did you suggest to use?
(Sorry about the amount of questions)
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
only single hv cable used and it goes to diode only. no bifilars. only simple tesla type coils with ferrite.

rgds
OK, hope your circuit will excite me and the electrons soon
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfortune View Post
Found this kit,maybe it could be adapt in @Z circuit.
12v Strobe red/blue xenon flash modules - Round colored 6v, 5v car
This also helpfull:
Xenon Flasher
(The 2kV is connected to the striking shield, now I understand ;-)

@all:
A great tesla site I found (lots to learn from):
Richie's Tesla Coil Web Page
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:04 PM
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Sucess

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnStone View Post
Hi Gedfire,
please specify "see this work"! What works? A bulb, a voltmeter?

I built it like the schematic today and saw it not working. 6/8" coppertube 10" long, slotted, 80 turns of magnet wire. The natural oscillation of the coil is about 3 MHz.
- no volt, no bulb lighting
- same with diode and capacitor at output.
- same when adding ring magnets around the rod.

I believe in OU so I am not discouraged. What is wrong?
rgds John

John,

Will let you see the pics shortly.Actually, I just demonstrated it to a group of students in my Science Club.

I used the steel used in building but I had a lot more turns on my copper wire.

Was not pleasant to warp.Took about 2 hours or more to complete about 2 and a half feet.

It let up a neon bulb.Voltage at 111 amps at 0.1.Later I will let you have the exact figures along with the pictures of the working device.

Regards,

Ged
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:19 PM
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Next Project THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
DO NOT CONNECT JOINT OF BIFILAR TO THE HEAT SINK OF TRANSISTOR BUT A POSITIVE + SUPPLY CONNECTED AT THE JOINT OF BIFILAR

I am going to pursue the Super Joule Ringer Next.

Zilano and others I have a few questions about the Joule Ringer.I Spent some time analysing the video and there some unanswered questions.

1. Does the toroid have a split?

2. What are the wire sizes? Certainly it does not seem that the 1/4 wavelength theory is in force.

3. LaserSaber said that he did a lot of TUNING.Measuring amps out etc.

I assume he meant he kept going until he got the least mAmps flowing.Hence resonance? He mentioned that the second toroid was KEY to the device working.He said the toroid was in SERIES with a capacitor in the centre.Seem like a cap/coil combo to help with the tuning.

He did not mention using any LCR meter etc.

He seem to have series resonance from the one leg of the toroid.

Hear that series resonance give high current.

He also had a varible resistor potentiometer set up

Any comments?

Schematic looks like an early Don model.

Plan to try the whole coil thingy tesla style with a core.


Great to hear from KELLY That pdf is the greatest ever!

Thanks MAN!

Ged
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  #1528  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:22 PM
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JohnStone JohnStone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedfire View Post
I am going to pursue the Super Joule Ringer Next.

Zilano and others I have a few questions about the Joule Ringer.I Spent some time analysing the video and there some unanswered questions.

1. Does the toroid have a split?

2. What are the wire sizes? Certainly it does not seem that the 1/4 wavelength theory is in force.

3. LaserSaber said that he did a lot of TUNING.Measuring amps out etc.

I assume he meant he kept going until he got the least mAmps flowing.Hence resonance? He mentioned that the second toroid was KEY to the device working.He said the toroid was in SERIES with a capacitor in the centre.Seem like a cap/coil combo to help with the tuning.

He did not mention using any LCR meter etc.

He seem to have series resonance from the one leg of the toroid.

Hear that series resonance give high current.

He also had a varible resistor potentiometer set up

Any comments?

Schematic looks like an early Don model.

Plan to try the whole coil thingy tesla style with a core.


Great to hear from KELLY That pdf is the greatest ever!

Thanks MAN!

Ged
Hi Gedfire,
thanks for sharing!
Did you check
http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter5.pdf / starting with page 135 /Fleet Generator
There might be some additional hints. Same device but with air core. They say that the secondary need to be cc/ccw like Zilano.

I made some ver initial tests and detected that the frequency shifts with load considerably 100KHz up to 370 KHz. Don't know if this is important. It might be if we try to get resonance. But conforming utkin this is a sign of too close coupling from secondary back to primary.

Studying Utkin in order to lift some fogs from my brain.
Regards John
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  #1529  
Old 11-24-2011, 07:22 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Joule thief

My 2" Joule thief is running ok but I cannot know exactly how much it's giving out cause three MM are giving me different readings
Well on the output it's lighting two neons in series although Cfl's that I have not lighting maybe my cfl are not good.
My problem is the variable cap cause nothing is happening when trying to tune maybe I have to have a bigger vcap.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:19 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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Utkin is correct. Tesla used wood core because in that time there was no other option. Read his patent about transformer ; he said also magnetic core may be used.
I think IRON atoms make things much easier like Zilano said. Thus we must learn first to use ferrite core but in small scale maybe, then apply knowledge to use other cores and air core.
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