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  #121  
Old 08-14-2011, 10:27 PM
Parav Parav is online now
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Fine Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBolo View Post
Crystal radio...hmmm...

Perhaps a subtle adjustment of the center tap ground point creates a slight imbalance in the two halves of the bifilar that mixes to produce a low frequency envelope riding on the high frequency resonating in the coil halves. Feed that through a diode with an RC and you can have your 60Hz.

Just a guess, though...
Just my thoughts and I may be wrong , and so please correct me accordingly.
I think Zilano is suggesting that we can fine tune the frequency by positioning these copper coated welding rods back and forth inside primary coil and also repositioning the secondary (the thick coil) over the primary till we find that perverbial sweet spot --as a Ham radio guy we tune coils for proper frequencies with our home made antenna tuners , kind of like that---what do you all think??---Just my thoughts---Paul --VE3 UNF
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  #122  
Old 08-15-2011, 04:22 AM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
keep frequency in the range of 35khz. frequencies from 1-20khz give u less juice.
Can it be higher?
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  #123  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:37 PM
drak drak is offline
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To get the resonate frequency of a very low induction coil (thick wire small turns) down to 35khz you must be using some very high farad capacitors. I'll have to look around for some of those caps.
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  #124  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:52 PM
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deggers deggers is offline
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Output diodes?

Hi Zilano,

Keep up the good work! Very impressive thread!

I'm curious what diodes you are using in your output circuit that you have a pic of in post #78.
I'm assuming that there is a full wave bridge. It's kinda hard to tell from the pic. Are they high frequency - fast recovery or anything special?

Thanks!
Duane
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  #125  
Old 08-15-2011, 06:37 PM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
if u need 5-10 kw use 35khz.use sine wave for better results.and heavy secondary coil for greater amps.
Where would I be using the sine wave at? It was my understanding that when the spark happens the capacitors drain to the coil then bounce back to the caps and then back to the coils etc at a certain frequency, the resonant frequency, until the energy is dissipated. At that point the spark bridge goes away only to be started again once the caps get charged again by your NST or fly back or whatever you are using to charge the caps. So a sine wave is automatic. Or are you talking about a sine wave to charge the caps from your NST or fly back? Does it matter how you charge those caps as long as they get charged fast enough to keep a steady stream of sparks?

1632: Radio FAQ Part 1 — Spark and Crystal

Well, my latest coils, not much more results. 10 gauge outer secondary 22 gauge inner primary.
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  #126  
Old 08-16-2011, 02:54 AM
vrand vrand is offline
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NST/Flyback Driver

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
hI FOLKS!
this is zilano zeis zane

hope u see wot i was reffering to. here CL=capacitor oscillatory value depends on L primary. use online resonance calc to calculate value for 30khz. CT= same way and CO same way. just go on matching frequency. always measure L with LCR METER AND THEN FIND THE REQUIRED C. THE CAPS ARE 300V 2.5 MFD in pi filter. please read 4700 mfd not 47000 mfd. mistake is regretted.

A MUST DO: USE 10 MEG OHM RESISTORS ACROSS CAPACITORS TO AVOID SHOCK AFTER POWER IS SWITCHED OFF.

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!! DO IT AT UR OWN RISK WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

WARNING: DC VOLTAGES R ALSO FATAL ABOVE 50 VOLTS THEY STICK YOU WHEN U R ON GROUND AND 250V DC TOUCHED BY U.ITS MORE FATAL THAN 250 V AC. SO WATCH OUT. WORK WITH SHOES ON AND WOODEN FLOOR AND WOODEN TABLE. USE VOLTAGE DIVIDERS TO GET SUITABLE DC 12 OR 24 VOLTS. MEASURE VOLTAGE. TRY ATTACHING LOAD AND IF ITS OK THEN USE INVERTOR.



REGARDS

ZILANO ZEIS ZANE
in sense n sane!

For those building their own 4kv, 35kHz NST driver using a Flyback here some info on converting one from an old 1970's B/W TV:

Flyback Driver
POWERLABS' High Voltage Solid State Flyback Driver

Hi Zilano

The above Flyback driver is close to your flyback design. Would an off-the-shelf adjustable 0-20kV, 15-35khz work in your design?

Here is one from the popular Information Unlimited website:
Neon Transformers, Neon Power Supplies

Quote:
PVM400 Powers up to 48" Plasma Globes
Single Electrode Operation

FEATURES:
OUTPUT - Variable 1-20kv
FREQUENCY - Variable 15-35khz
CURRENT - Reactance Limited to 25 ma.
INPUT - 115/220 50/60hz 1-2 amps
If this NST would not work, do you recommend one that would work?

Those old '70's flybacks are getting impossible to find.

Cheers Mike
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  #127  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:14 AM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
hI MIKE!

NST U QUOTED ON PAGE WILL WORK FINE.if they dont have gfi(ground fault interruptor) not built in. coz whenever u earth it it will go off and trip in don smith circuits. thats why i made it on my own. without gfi.

regards
zilano zeis zane
Hi Zilano

Here is the schematics on that NST, PVM400:
http://www.amazing1.com/download/PVM...CSCHEMATIC.pdf

There is a ground connection, would this be a GFI?

Thanks again you for your help and in sharing your fascinating insight to Tesla's/Don Smith's resonant electrical energy technology. Keep up the good work!

Cheers Mike
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Last edited by vrand; 08-16-2011 at 03:38 AM.
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  #128  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:45 AM
drak drak is offline
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Hi zilano,

Quote:
try alluminium thick wire the coil must be thicker. ur outer coil is thin still. but try with this first and use copper coated welding rods. and u will find the great improvement. make sure resonance happens. when u add welding rods coil inductance will change and u need to adjust resonance with caps in primary and secondary accordingly. but result will be best. when u dont have resonance working well results will be low and r just based on induction and thats wot we dont want. we want resonance give us the results.
I'm making a new bifilar outer coil. this one will be as wide as the inner coil and is made up of 6 strands of 14 gauge wire, if this is not big enough, I can add more strands. It is half way done I still have to add the second wind and tie them together. I hope multi strand will work. Will this one be big enough? Thanks for your help
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  #129  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:59 AM
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deggers deggers is offline
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Yahoo Groups

For those who don't know there's some info to be had in the radiant_energy yahoo group.

You have to join to get to the files section.

radiant_energy : Radiant Energy Power Generation

Nothing earth shattering, but some stuff I haven't seen elsewhere.

Also, don't forget to visit FreeEnergyInventions.com

Freeenergyinventions

Duane
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  #130  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:09 AM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
keep turns not apart. keep them close.
I still have another wind to add, and that will put them closer together. I will finish this one try it, then build one with turns closer together and try that too.

Edit to add: or build a longer primary.
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Last edited by drak; 08-16-2011 at 04:12 AM.
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  #131  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:14 AM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
HI Mike !

this will work.

regards
zzz
Thanks Zilano

For the 88 turns primary air coil do you use neon sign HV wire, for the input from 4kV from the NST? Wire insulation needs to be rated at least 4kV?

Cheers Mike
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  #132  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
HI mike!

yes its not 88 turns its 80. sorry for crude pic. yes insulation 5k will work fine.

regards
zzz
Thanks Zilano, I can get some 14 AWG GTO-15kv cable

- Is the 80 turns all in one direction?

- For the 5 turns secondary air coil, is 1/4" (6.35mm) copper tubing okay?
- Spaced 6.35mm apart? Or can be closer? I guess can get as close as the 240V air breakdown voltage (240vac output)?

Cheers Mike
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  #133  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:56 AM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi mike!

coil 80 turns cw. coil 5 turns is a bifilar(cw5,ccw5 turns). 250 v hf.rectified with in 4007 or higher combination. coil primary 2" and sec 3". with 4 turns per inch secondary bifilar.

regards
zzz
Hi Zilano

The bifilar is it center tapped to ground (per your drawing below)?

Is the bifilar like the diagram below where 5 turns from center are lower half CCW and upper half are CW 5 turns?

Is there any advantage in using copper tubing for the bifilar windings vs stranded wire vs solid copper wire?

Cheers Mike



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  #134  
Old 08-16-2011, 12:55 PM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi mike!

yes diagram is correct. copper is good conductor of electricity alluminium is 2nd to copper. its better to use solid copper rather than stranded. but stranded can be used.bifilar contains two things one is voltage and other is amps here we combine both and use for our benefit. if u can afford barker and williams coil that option is better. cos they have high mutual inductance. here we overcome this mutual inductance factor by using copper coated welding rods a cheap substitute to ferrite toroidal core. in case of ferrite toroidal core we cant change the the q factor but using copper coated ferrite rods we can by increasing and reducing rods.it doesnt matter wot way u wind ccw and cw coils wot matters is we combine the ends and take output from combined end and centre of bifilar. yes bifilar centre tapped grounded.

regards

zzz
Hi Zilano

Yes, Don Smith talked about using the magnetic end of the EM field to create the "amps" and he also showed that Tesla diagram of the bifilar cw/ccw coil with center tap.

In the Kapanadze photos of his secondary air coil it doesn't show this center tapped bifilar secondary. Was his system under-producing in electrical output?

Cheers Mike


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  #135  
Old 08-16-2011, 01:31 PM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi mike!

a single coil can also produce amperage too. kapanadze single coil also produced it. we use bifilar so we can control voltage and amps or reduce voltage and amps by increasing cw or ccw turns using something like a rheostat combination. u can use single coil but make it thick.

regards
zzz
Hi Zilano

By thick do you mean like a copper tube or large diameter > 2 awg copper cable?

I like your 10kw design so I would like to experiment with a secondary that can take 50-100 amps to eventually connect to my house 60hz 240/120v split phase 100 amp panel.

Cheers Mike
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Last edited by vrand; 08-16-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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  #136  
Old 08-16-2011, 01:58 PM
carmine carmine is offline
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Barker & Williamson coil

Hi, which Barker & Williamson coil would be better,@4 turns per inch . Airdux TL what would be 2404TL P/N or in the Miniductor the 3064 P/N . Thank You 4 your help
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  #137  
Old 08-16-2011, 02:03 PM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi mike!

solid copper thick coil. dont use hollow copper. think a transformer(induction) and make it tesla(resonance). i made a transformer and made it to resonate like tesla coil.
consider how many amps u want in the output. and choose copper wire accordingly. if u need 5 amps. 5x110=550 watts or 5x120=600 watts. or 220x5=1100watts
etc. hope u get my point! use wire according to amperage handling capabilities of the wire.

regards

zilano zeis zane!
Hi Zilano

I am looking at 50 amps min to 100 amps ideal, at 240v.

2 awg is good to 94 amps for transmission and 181 amps amps for chassis wiring.
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies

Stranded 2 awg is easier to form a spiral so I was looking at that for the secondary 5 thick turns. At 1/4" diameter it is also close to the Kapanadze single thick secondary.

Solid 2 awg copper cable would need a thin wide section for easy bending into a spiral. Like this 1.25" spring-bronze weatherstrip about 0.01" thick.
Terry Blake's Huge Tesla Coil Primary



Cheers Mike
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  #138  
Old 08-16-2011, 02:33 PM
Parav Parav is online now
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1/4 copper tubing

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi mike!

solid copper thick coil. dont use hollow copper. think a transformer(induction) and make it tesla(resonance). i made a transformer and made it to resonate like tesla coil.
consider how many amps u want in the output. and choose copper wire accordingly. if u need 5 amps. 5x110=550 watts or 5x120=600 watts. or 220x5=1100watts
etc. hope u get my point! use wire according to amperage handling capabilities of the wire.

regards

zilano zeis zane!
Oops, --- I was using 1/4 iinch copper tubing ---so I guess it's back to Home Depot to get some thick copper wire of sorts . I will probably opt for stranded as they don't have very thick solid stuff . I think we're getting close---let's keep going guys--Paul
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  #139  
Old 08-16-2011, 02:41 PM
vrand vrand is offline
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Here is a strange transformer with flat windings:
tesla coil, primary inductor, copper wire base, wraps, taps





I was always fascinated by Don's lectures and writings where his says his little table top coils/caps/resistors setup produces 30kw to 200kw of output to megawatts for country size units. So its all about the secondary wire size to being able to take the amps. Interesting indeed.

Cheers Mike
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  #140  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:47 PM
drak drak is offline
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Ok I guess I am getting confused as to what you guys are referring to when you say bifilar. I always thought bifilar meant wrapping TWO wires, then connecting the end of wire two to the beginning of wire one. OR do you mean wrap one single wire, and tap from the center of the one wire?
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  #141  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:50 PM
vrand vrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi mike!

the flat panel good for tesla hv spark stuff. but for power u need not that. its whopping more wot u need. see the awg chart i have uploaded in one of my posts. and consider wire with amps n frequency in the chart. the standard chart provides amps but not frequency handling capabilities. get the chart with amps n frequency ratings for proper coiling. but its not necessary. u can use any copper the basic is. L1 (thin one) is half diameter of L2(thick one)

regards
zzz
Hi Zilano

What would you recommend for 8 awg L2 secondary wiring 5 turns (thick one)?

Litz wire? Copper tubing?

Because of the "skin effect" copper tubing works well. Even better is silver plated copper stranded teflon cable.

Kapanadze used a copper tubing for his L2 heavy secondary. It worked for Kapanadze?

Cheers Mike
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  #142  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:56 PM
drak drak is offline
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zilano,

Ok, I think I understand now. I was always putting my spark gap in series. I tried putting it in parallel and got no spark. The capacitor will never charge to a high enough voltage to spark because the energy is being consumed by the coil. Sooo, I'm guessing the frequency that charges the capacitor must be same as the resonant frequency of the LC therefore the coil will not accept the energy as well and will be dumped into the capacitor. I think that is what I was doing wrong. And that is why you are saying charge your cap with sine wave?
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  #143  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drak View Post
zilano,

Ok, I think I understand now. I was always putting my spark gap in series. I tried putting it in parallel and got no spark. The capacitor will never charge to a high enough voltage to spark because the energy is being consumed by the coil. Sooo, I'm guessing the frequency that charges the capacitor must be same as the resonant frequency of the LC therefore the coil will not accept the energy as well and will be dumped into the capacitor. I think that is what I was doing wrong. And that is why you are saying charge your cap with sine wave?
Hi Drak

What size and type of wire are you using for your air coils L1 & L2?

I was looking at 14 awg GTO-15kv for the L1 80 turns primary and L2 8 awg (2X 14 awg) for the 5 turns on the secondary.

Was also thinking of 1/4" copper tube for the L2. What did Kapanadze use?

Cheers Mike
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Last edited by vrand; 08-16-2011 at 07:00 PM.
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  #144  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:11 PM
drak drak is offline
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Mike,

I have many different coils made, I Have used 22,26,17,14,10, and am now working on a multi stranded wire made of (6) 14 gauge strands, the number of turns I haven't really counted but they are all different number of turns just to test. my best results were with a 22 gauge primary (magnet wire) and a 14 gauge secondary (normal house wire). But that was series spark gap, am now working on getting the spark gap in parallel.

Gauge:
22 - magnet wire
26 - magnet wire
17 - aluminum electric fence wire
14 - normal house wire
10 - normal house wire
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  #145  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:17 PM
drak drak is offline
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I was never trying to get the perfect voltage by calculating the turns. I just wanted to blow up a 6 watt 120v bulb with 2 watts of power. At least then I would know I'm getting somewhere.
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  #146  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:05 PM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
u have gotten somewhere. coz u got partial resonance till now and ur bulb lit. try again and u will get resonance and u will get it. dont worry abt voltages. now cheer up kid!
Yes I know I'm working on converting to parallel spark gap. I have to think of ways to do it. I will probably have to use two sets of coils to do this. Thank you for all your help zilano
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  #147  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:10 PM
LtBolo LtBolo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
hI dRAK!

U R RIGHT. when u make bifilar for bedini school girl circuit. u can do that. but here bifilar is stretched. wind one coil cw and wind another ccw and join them at centre. so u have
cw----centre jointed----ccw

cw= clockwise
ccw= counter clockwise or anticlockwise

regards

zilano zeis zane!
Now I'm confused. Since the two ends are tied, and the center goes to ground, that is just 2 wires in parallel and there is really no bifilar effect at all. Isn't the point of it to cancel the magnetic induction, and if so, it seems that you would center tap one cw or ccw winding?
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  #148  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:37 PM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
u dont need 2 pairs of coil combination. u only need ur flyabck and the step down. wot u just did with ur bulb. keep that as it is. just match right cap for primary. use a variable cap as u used in ur earlier setup. and if that caps capacity is low add parallel cap across it. ur fly back has high frequency ac already. so u dont need extra pair of coils. just match cap to primary and thats it.
Thats the thing, I don't have the electronic components to pulse my flyback at 400khz. 400khz Is the lowest I can get the resonant frequency of my coils because I don't have very high farad high voltage AC caps. So I'm stuck with a set of coils that the lowest that will resonate is 400khz. I can not get my flyback to pulse that fast. The setup in the videos you seen is a SERIES spark gap and they were in resonance. If I added a capacitor to either coil the bulb would get dimmer and the same if I removed a cap. I tested the resonance on the scope with the function generator to get them in perfect resonance with each other before letting it fly. So in order to get a spark out of a set of coils with a PARALLEL spark gap, I need 400khz pulse, which I can get with a second set of coils with a series spark gap.
Or I could just wait a week and order all the parts I need to get a 35khz resonance and I'm not in the mood to wait Unless you have another suggestion.
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  #149  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:56 PM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
wotever frequency u can feed with ur flyback feed it. keep spark gap before c and L parallel make it resonate.
I must be missing something then. If the spark gap is in parallel, then how will it ever spark? The coil is taking all the energy.
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  #150  
Old 08-16-2011, 10:00 PM
drak drak is offline
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Quote:
Hi drak! wot max frequency u can fire ur flyback ?
after about 38khz it won't fire anymore. but that is not because of the flyback... its because of my driving circuitry. I don't have the electronic components to get it faster then that
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