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  #1411  
Old 11-13-2011, 12:20 AM
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core, i connot send to you Private message, you are disabled to Not Recieve a private messages. But answer on your question is "YES"

By the way, two important things! see attach
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  #1412  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:45 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Fires Won't Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
\post ur schematic so i can correct it.
@zzz

Thanks for advice. Here are a couple of experiments I've tried. Gap fires when it sees 5kv peak to peak. But not when it sees 2.5kv to ground.

Notes:

1. As per previous posts, NPS has GFI.
2. Connecting ground to the "ground" terminal on the NPS.
3. NPS connected to wall power 120V 60Hz.
4. No downstream caps or coil connected for this test.
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  #1413  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:55 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Self Serve, Help Urself. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jharmon View Post
Thanks for advice. Here are a couple of experiments I've tried. Gap fires when it sees 5kv peak to peak. But not when it sees 2.5kv to ground.

Notes:

1. As per previous posts, NPS has GFI.
2. Connecting ground to the "ground" terminal on the NPS.
3. NPS connected to wall power 120V 60Hz.
4. No downstream caps or coil connected for this test.

After posting this, I realized that the only possible explanation was that the outlets on my workbench had an open ground. Sure enough. I inherited the bench and storage unit from the previous owner. It's wired with an open ground!!!!

I think I'm getting the hang of this.
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  #1414  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:46 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Next Step

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
SEE BELOW THE ARRANGEMENT
Thanks Z. Ok I'll think about these and try them after I fix my grounding problem.

I think the only answer is to get a new DC-AC inverter and bury a lead from the ground terminal in a bucket of dirt. That's my experiment for tomorrow. :-)

If I try the Avramenko solution, I'm guessing that the size of that first cap affects the frequency that the gap fires. Any recommendation for a value? Does it matter?

You aren't showing a parallel gap solution, yet that is in all the original Don diagrams?!?

I feel my goals are...

1. get coil to ring.
2. get some disruptive discharge to generate scalar component of waves.
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  #1415  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:06 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Don't Disturb the Resonance

I'm beginning to think about my harvest loop. I understand that it needs to be built so that it doesn't disturb the resonance.

If I ground the middle of my bifilar and send the top and bottom into HF diodes, I'll have a full-wave rectified signal going to a tank/collector cap.

I'm trying to understand how the choose / size this capacitor. I know that the role of this is to collect the HF current, and that it is a key part of the power factor correction... so the more amperage I want to drive, the larger this needs to be.

But there was more to it than that. You wrote an excellent post on power factor correction, but I can't seem to find it. Can you refer me to the post, or *sigh* repeat? :-)

Honestly, the repetition really helps!
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  #1416  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:56 AM
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Smile nope

No Bemf with bifilar coil.

Thats not possible with a bifilar coil.
It cancels out it's own field so there is no magnetic field to start with and whenever you create a field it will collapse when you power down.
It has to and it will.
A magnetic field cannot exist in space all by itself it's called the rubber band analogy when you let go it will snap back.
This is different for the electric field in a capacitor here the energy can be stored over time.
It's quite easy to try these things and see for your self.

Also If Don exited the middle magnet which i believe you see as neutral, it will only move the field as much as energy you put in.
The poles at the end will simply get weaker and stronger it's not as easy as thinking this creates excess energy from the magnets there is no such thing.
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  #1417  
Old 11-13-2011, 01:53 PM
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Smile That's not a bifilar coil

That is not a non inductive bifilar coil to start with.
It's just a coil with two layers in series in the same direction.

A bifilar coil also has two layers but they are connected in a way that the magnetic field of the first cancels out the magnetic field of the second.
See Here :
Bifilar coil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If it is a true bifilar coil it should not pick up one paperclip because there is no field.

Offcource the one with two layers connected in series is stronger, it has got more windings.
This has got nothing to do with more free energy from electromagnets.

It would be nice if we could tickle a small magnet and get large magnetic fluctuations but that is not the nature of the beast magnets do not posses energy they are a catalyst to convert kinetic motion into electricity and vice versa.
And therefore they cannot deliver more energy that the energy we put in to move the field.

This would be the same as saying the magnets in the generator are powering the load, this is not true because it is whatever is driving the generator that is moving the magnets is actually powering the load.

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  #1418  
Old 11-13-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post



plz learn and understand!


I can add that generator principle is wrong. We can take relatively weak magnet and rotate with tremendous speed expending very little energy. So , it is wrong to state that electric generator convert mechnical energy into electric energy - because output exceedes input many times when you knew the better way to create magnetic shutter.
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  #1419  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
what all people want is a generator that uses trigger to start and self generating.

all zero point energy r based on generating electric current. so all are based on generating concept so its not wrong we call kapanadze device an overunity generator or don device as an ou generator. coz its a generator with low input consumption.

to rotate a coil or a magnet in strong field takes a lotta energy. the same affect can be be obtained by oscillating fields and affecting third coil without movement of third coil.

this is the basic concept of motionless generators. Meg is an example based on controlling the magnet field in a ironcored or metglas core.

but here we r operating on the zero point of magnetic field the amt of energy required to manipulate it is small. the primary coil of don acting as a throttle to generate much amt.

rgdz


zzzz

why not build the stiffler devices that everyone who has tried seems to successfully replicate than goof off with a device that no one can get to work?
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  #1420  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:46 PM
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oh well

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
bifilar or caduceus is the way to make strong electromagnets without back emf.
Is wrong.
The types of coils you are showing either have a normal Bemf or have no field at all.

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
output xceeds many times due to resonance!

zzzz
Is also wrong.
Resonance is a condition.
The condition where energy transfer is at it's most efficient spot and there is no excess energy involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post

plz learn and understand!
It seems to me you are the one that does not understand you are mixing up coils and their behaviour.
Caduceus coil or non inductive bifilar have no Bemf because the combined coils have zero self inductance.
This means the field from one coil is oh well plz. learn and understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post


I can add that generator principle is wrong. We can take relatively weak magnet and rotate with tremendous speed expending very little energy. So , it is wrong to state that electric generator convert mechnical energy into electric energy - because output exceedes input many times when you knew the better way to create magnetic shutter.
Show me.
Saying something is wrong isn't good enough you know that.
I have never seen output exceed input so i like to know more.
If it helps you i have been trying for over ten years.

People over here use lots of fancy words and nice theory's without showing any results.
The generator principle is fine you need to turn it to get some juice out of it.
The more coils you place the more drag you get.
And i can certainly show you that.
Do you want me to?

That's about it unless you can show me something else and please no link or crappy vid or point to somebody's work you haven't verified yourself i need something we can work with.
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  #1421  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:23 PM
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Suppressing the Bemf does not mean it's not there it's still happening.
And it has to happen otherwise the field would stay in space and you could remove the electromagnet and put some paperclips in the air at the place where the electromagnet just was and they would stick in open air.
What are the chances that's gonna happen you think?


If you put up a magnetic field it has to collapse it's that simple.
So you cannot put up a field without a Bemf like you said.
It's not the nature of the beast.
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  #1422  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcoz View Post
Suppressing the Bemf does not mean it's not there it's still happening.
And it has to happen otherwise the field would stay in space and you could remove the electromagnet and put some paperclips in the air at the place where the electromagnet just was and they would stick in open air.
What are the chances that's gonna happen you think?


If you put up a magnetic field it has to collapse it's that simple.
So you cannot put up a field without a Bemf like you said.
It's not the nature of the beast.
You are clever man, so you tell me why bemf is always present ? is that the cause of drag in electric generator based on mechanical force ? if I could understand it completely I would solve all problems with mechanical generator, but sadly I do not understand the source of bemf sorry that would be great help but in meantime I'm trying other method of manipulating magnetic flux directly in solid state usingsome nice iron atoms
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  #1423  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:42 PM
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The source?

The source is your own power supply.

The Bemf happens when you are varying the current up and down and when you switch off the power supply because you stop feeding in energy and this immediately releases all the energy that is stored in the field also called inductive kickback.

That is also the rubber band analogy as per Eric P Dollard.
You simply stretch a rubber band thereby storing energy in the rubber band and as long as you hold it stretched you are applying energy but as soon as you let go it will snap back this is the release of energy that was stored into the rubber band which resembles the magnetic field.

My conclusion is that a magnetic field is a property of space itself.
I have been able to create magnetic fields in open space without coils or permanent magnets and this is why i believe it has to be a property of space itself.

The drag in a generator is a whole different thing.
That is the drag created by charge carriers and it has got nothing to do with the release of the Bemf although there certainly is the curie point.
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  #1424  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:36 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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No Luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
SEE BELOW THE ARRANGEMENT

@Z

No luck. Tried both configurations. Don gives nothing. Avramenko gives single spark with no follow up.

Ground in both cases went to a bucket of dirt and water.

Used identical caps in Avramenko setup. .333nf

I think GFI on the NPS is killing it. :-(

Will try again with 10kv NPS when it comes in.

Else will move to flyback transformer.
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  #1425  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:08 AM
TEKTRON TEKTRON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharmon View Post
@Z


Ground in both cases went to a bucket of dirt and water.
Jaharmon, That bucket setup of yours is about as far away from a ground as you can get

Use mains ground or drive an 8 foot proper copper plated ground rod into the ground outside.
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  #1426  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:19 AM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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:-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKTRON View Post
Jaharmon, That bucket setup of yours is about as far away from a ground as you can get

Use mains ground or drive an 8 foot proper copper plated ground rod into the ground outside.
Ahhh... Thanks. I kept asking about grounding before, but nobody really spoke up. I'll be sure to continue doing stupid stuff. ;-)

Many thanks Tektron.
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  #1427  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:23 AM
TEKTRON TEKTRON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharmon View Post
Ahhh... Thanks. I kept asking about grounding before, but nobody really spoke up. I'll be sure to continue doing stupid stuff. ;-)

Many thanks Tektron.
LOL no problem me too
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  #1428  
Old 11-14-2011, 04:49 PM
Felix_the_cat Felix_the_cat is offline
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Ground=magnetic current

The best ground you can have is copper or BRASS rod, not steel.
Steel will short circuit magnetic current instead of allowing it to flow.

HTML Code:
However, when stating the wire then GOES TO GROUND, we need to expand on just WHAT TYPE of ground. We DO NOT use a standard electrical ground rod that is copper-coated steel. The ground rod should be the same thickness and distance into the ground as an electrical ground rod BUT it should be made of a copper/brass metal combination. Magnetic current tends to GRAB the steel part of the electrical rod that then STOPS THE FLOW causing what could be called a magnetic short circuit. 
Free energy magnetic water purifier using zero point energy and cold fusion
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  #1429  
Old 11-14-2011, 08:19 PM
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Small circuit for consideration from Don Smith explanations
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  #1430  
Old 11-14-2011, 09:04 PM
nico nico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntis View Post
mmm, No coment.... Working device and selfruning Device, maybee have diferent meanings
I do understand that principles of Zilano is ‘’resonance in coils’’ and your principles is some think like the picture in my attach show.
If in this Kodak circuit we attach a 50Hz coil for modulation and a coil for load arranged at 90 or 180 degrees and if we arrange all that as Mislavskij’s transformer, we will have an working device like SR or Kapanadze?
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  #1431  
Old 11-14-2011, 10:20 PM
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The primary is the problem, it needs to be wound like this
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  #1432  
Old 11-15-2011, 03:15 AM
TEKTRON TEKTRON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix_the_cat View Post
The best ground you can have is copper or BRASS rod, not steel.
Steel will short circuit magnetic current instead of allowing it to flow.

HTML Code:
However, when stating the wire then GOES TO GROUND, we need to expand on just WHAT TYPE of ground. We DO NOT use a standard electrical ground rod that is copper-coated steel. The ground rod should be the same thickness and distance into the ground as an electrical ground rod BUT it should be made of a copper/brass metal combination. Magnetic current tends to GRAB the steel part of the electrical rod that then STOPS THE FLOW causing what could be called a magnetic short circuit. 
Free energy magnetic water purifier using zero point energy and cold fusion

Thank you Felix, I did not know that
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  #1433  
Old 11-15-2011, 10:44 AM
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Hi,

Is it save to use variable vacuum capacitors for primary or/and secondary coil?
Omnicor: Vacuum capacitors
http://www.omnicor.com/docs/Var%20Va...on%20Guide.pdf
Google: Variable vacuum capacitors

Could be handy to tune on resonance, but pretty Expensive.
Reading the specs: caps can be used at Mhz HV and high Arms @picoF!

Also I found a similar coil arrangement known as a LCT "Link Coupled Tuner" that uses variable vacuum capacitors and center tapped L2 coil. L1 is called Link coil.

Best Regards
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  #1434  
Old 11-15-2011, 03:37 PM
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about the formulas

Hi all, i'm a newer here.Very interesting.

P = 0.5 x C x (V squared) x (HZ squared)
So, here P is which power(measure the out coil L2?), C is which capacitor(the L1 matching capacitor?), V is which voltage(between L1?), and HZ is which frequency?
the force frequency or the resonance frequency?

and follow formula?
P = 0.5 x C x (V squared) x HZ
P = 0.5 x L x (I squared) x HZ

could any one help me?
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  #1435  
Old 11-16-2011, 05:51 AM
ostone ostone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
one can study the coils and resonance without using high voltage coz with the dangers involved with high voltage.

one can use dc motors 12 v as pulsed dc supply and can study various coils like singular coils or bifilar coils or caduceus coils and even don arrangement.

HERE CAPS ARE 0.01 MICROFARAD 200-300 VOLT DISC TYPE AC. WIRE GAUGE CAN BE VARIED FROM 22 AWG TO 28 AWG

THIS IS NON INDUCTIVE CIRCUIT SO NO DIODE IS USED IN SERIES. FOR INDUCTIVE CIRCUIT A DIODE HAS TO BE USED TO SAFEGUARD INDUCTIVE KICKBACK



RGDS
ZZZZ
zzz,thanks! I will try and learn. Keep post.
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  #1436  
Old 11-16-2011, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
one can study the coils and resonance without using high voltage coz with the dangers involved with high voltage.

one can use dc motors 12 v as pulsed dc supply and can study various coils like singular coils or bifilar coils or caduceus coils and even don arrangement.

HERE CAPS ARE 0.01 MICROFARAD 200-300 VOLT DISC TYPE AC. WIRE GAUGE CAN BE VARIED FROM 22 AWG TO 28 AWG

THIS IS NON INDUCTIVE CIRCUIT SO NO DIODE IS USED IN SERIES. FOR INDUCTIVE CIRCUIT A DIODE HAS TO BE USED TO SAFEGUARD INDUCTIVE KICKBACK



RGDS
ZZZZ
Thanks Z for these hints!
Starting with lower Voltage ist exactly what i do. I play around with spark arrestor 250 or 350 V and capacitors below 2000V - easily available, handy and cheap. Very healthy for scope and other equipment and user as well :-)
No distinct success yet. I just started to learn hands on.
Regards
John
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  #1437  
Old 11-16-2011, 09:48 AM
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Hi all,
experimenters being short of funds who search for a drawing tool for schamatics. I use Kicad. It is free and fully open source and handy as well. Very easy to start if standard components employed. Drawback: Mouse actions not consequent WIN conform but learnable.
Multilayer layout capability included if required.
"KiCad is an open source software suite for electronic design automation (EDA). It facilitates the design of schematics for electronic circuits and their conversion to PCBs (printed circuit board) design. KiCad was developed by Jean-Pierre Charras, and features an integrated environment for schematic capture and PCB layout design. Tools exist within the package to create a bill of materials, artwork and Gerber files, and 3D views of the PCB and its components."

It may help to post your schematics in this thread in a clear drawing and help your own lab documentation. I recommend to add a version note in every schematic for clear reference.
Regards John

PS: I do not intend to start a Kicad or other tool discussion in this thread - the internet has plenty of them. It is just a hint.
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  #1438  
Old 11-16-2011, 04:11 PM
jharmon jharmon is offline
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Thinking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
the gfi sees no load so its tripping in don case.
Have to think about your other tips, but "light bulb" went on for this one.

Was thinking GFI circuit in NPS was looking for equal current in as out. But not quite.

A tube of neon has total voltage drop until the signal hits the breakdown voltage for the tube. Then, current flows and voltage drop goes to zero... like a spark gap.

So the NPS probably expects no current and high voltage drop across the leads at the beginning of each cycle.

Hmm. Anytime you have an untuned cap / coil combination across either of the leads (with neon or spark gap in series), the NPS will either push or pull current on one of the leads right away... this will look like a ground fault.

ok. I guess i can at least find the freq of the NPS by firing across a spark gap by itself.
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  #1439  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilano View Post
Hi john!

this paragraph contains important info that all people r looking for ou.

the simplicity lies in two caps across coil so that one is in series with coil and the other in parallel. the cap that is paralllel must be of high capacity and the one in series must be low capacity that it passes hf of the coil to the cap in parallel. the coil is simple coil and ferrite can be used as well as air core. the above combination forms an open circuit. this is basic primary coil. for secondary u can use simple coil also. the primary coil with two cap combination is pulsed with hv dc. one can use avramenko for low input or a direct nst can be used. but the pulse must be hvdc. one can use mov 120 volt or 230 volt or 250 volt as the secondary coil output is hvac and have to be lowered in voltage, rectified and pulsed either using vibrator type combination or igbt.


regards

zzzz
Hi Zilano,
sorry - can't imagine what schematic you refer to. Especially the cap in series and parallel. You are so far advanced! Some additional hints available?
Thanks for sharing!
Regards
John
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Last edited by JohnStone; 11-16-2011 at 06:40 PM.
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  #1440  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:42 PM
Dfortune Dfortune is offline
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How much HVDC

@ Zilano

Your saying "...the pulse must be HVDC." how much should that be 1000v-2000v or what is the minimum voltage required.
And at what duty cycle 10%-50%-80%.

Thank you for all your insights,much appreciated.
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