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  #11881  
Old 10-04-2017, 04:46 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is online now
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"The magnetic side which passes through almost every thing without significant loss will replicate as many times as You wish, which in turn is easily changed-flipped into useful electrical energy. The electrons present in the flipping area provide energy not previously present. This is seen as free energy. Itís the same energy provided by the normal conventional devices. The difference is a more intelligent way of getting it."
Again, one more person saying the same and still establishment is blind to see it - magnetic field is the source of energy - it is a steady flow of energy from and to the other separate dimension. It can be disturbed in clever way and we don't need all this coal, oil and gas to "make" electricity.
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  #11882  
Old 10-04-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
"The magnetic side which passes through almost every thing without significant loss will replicate as many times as You wish, which in turn is easily changed-flipped into useful electrical energy. The electrons present in the flipping area provide energy not previously present. This is seen as free energy. Itís the same energy provided by the normal conventional devices. The difference is a more intelligent way of getting it."
Again, one more person saying the same and still establishment is blind to see it - magnetic field is the source of energy - it is a steady flow of energy from and to the other separate dimension. It can be disturbed in clever way and we don't need all this coal, oil and gas to "make" electricity.


Yes ! this is the point very nice quote !
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  #11883  
Old 10-04-2017, 08:38 PM
tswift tswift is online now
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Please permit me, if you will, to save everyone else a great of time and effort experimenting with the various things that are known not to work. In here we talk about reproducing the "Don Smith Device", as if it were just one single device. Clearly it isn't, even just in the "Resonance Energy Methods" booklet I count at least 12 totally different designs, and there are more if you watch all the videos. What is it that they all have in common? What characteristics are different? For starters I would suggest that you can completely strike out such things as matched CW/CCW coils and the 1:4 ratio of wire by length, or by weight, as being of any value. As I have suggested before, it is highly instructive for any experimenter on the Don Smith front to take time out and design and build a conventional Tesla coil first. This will help you develop many skills. Hmm, didn't Don show a picture of one of his designs that just essentially bolted on to a TOTALLY CONVENTIONAL TESLA COIL? Have you stopped to consider why that is?

Also, over the years no small number of experimenters have fooled with Don Smith-like configurations and very, very few have claimed any measure of success. If the real secret was any of the more obvious things then certainly more people would have stumbled across it by now. If it was as simple as using wire in 1:4 ratio either by length or by weight, then certainly conventional Tesla hobbyists not even looking for overunity would have discovered that certain combinations produce unusual results.

No, after no small amount of research and experimentation, I have concluded that the secret lies in the combination of the ground, the capacitance, and the voltage environment. It is some combination of these that produces the effects we are looking for. When correct, the storage capacitor in the Don Smith machine (ANY of them) gets charged with this magic radiant/cold electricity, which then produces overunity gain by reducing Lenz's law when put through a transformer. You will see these elements as conserved in every one of Don's configurations (excepting those that presumably work a completely different principle, such at the magnetic shielding idea).

Also, I once at the workbench very clearly saw the radiant effect show up. I had been zapping a nearly dead 12V gel-cell with about 10,000V from my oil burner transformer. At the feeble currents the transformer delivers this didn't charge it appreciably, and yet when I used it to power my PVM12 high-frequency supply immediately afterward, for about a minute the looped configuration I had set up zoomed up in voltage instead of running down. Then the effect dissipated and it returned to acting normally. Essentially, imagine doing something very like a Bedini-style pulse charger does, only instead of getting a sharp positive pulse from the magnetic flyback effect of a coil, essentially zapping the positive terminal of the battery with an NST, dioded, into a spark gap. The negative is connected to ground, just as in the Bedini configurations. The real question is, WHY DID THIS PRODUCE UNCONVENTIONAL RESULTS? If I really knew the full answer to that question then I would have a working device by now, but I don't. I have a lot of ideas, but the ideas only last until I can actually prove them at the workbench.

One last parting shot: why did Kapanadze bury an old radiator in the ground before connecting the device in that first garden video? Why not just attach to the building wiring as Don did? This is a rhetorical question, because I already know the answer, as should you if you have actually built and operated a Tesla coil of any significant size and power.
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  #11884  
Old 10-04-2017, 09:33 PM
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If you the answer then tell us. I agree about radiant energy and capacitors, grounding is probably for safety reason imho.
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  #11885  
Old 10-04-2017, 10:05 PM
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Please permit me, if you will, to save everyone else a great of time and effort experimenting with the various things that are known not to work. In here we talk about reproducing the "Don Smith Device", as if it were just one single device. Clearly it isn't, even just in the "Resonance Energy Methods" booklet I count at least 12 totally different designs, and there are more if you watch all the videos. What is it that they all have in common? What characteristics are different? For starters I would suggest that you can completely strike out such things as matched CW/CCW coils and the 1:4 ratio of wire by length, or by weight, as being of any value. As I have suggested before, it is highly instructive for any experimenter on the Don Smith front to take time out and design and build a conventional Tesla coil first. This will help you develop many skills. Hmm, didn't Don show a picture of one of his designs that just essentially bolted on to a TOTALLY CONVENTIONAL TESLA COIL? Have you stopped to consider why that is?

Also, over the years no small number of experimenters have fooled with Don Smith-like configurations and very, very few have claimed any measure of success. If the real secret was any of the more obvious things then certainly more people would have stumbled across it by now. If it was as simple as using wire in 1:4 ratio either by length or by weight, then certainly conventional Tesla hobbyists not even looking for overunity would have discovered that certain combinations produce unusual results.

No, after no small amount of research and experimentation, I have concluded that the secret lies in the combination of the ground, the capacitance, and the voltage environment. It is some combination of these that produces the effects we are looking for. When correct, the storage capacitor in the Don Smith machine (ANY of them) gets charged with this magic radiant/cold electricity, which then produces overunity gain by reducing Lenz's law when put through a transformer. You will see these elements as conserved in every one of Don's configurations (excepting those that presumably work a completely different principle, such at the magnetic shielding idea).

Also, I once at the workbench very clearly saw the radiant effect show up. I had been zapping a nearly dead 12V gel-cell with about 10,000V from my oil burner transformer. At the feeble currents the transformer delivers this didn't charge it appreciably, and yet when I used it to power my PVM12 high-frequency supply immediately afterward, for about a minute the looped configuration I had set up zoomed up in voltage instead of running down. Then the effect dissipated and it returned to acting normally. Essentially, imagine doing something very like a Bedini-style pulse charger does, only instead of getting a sharp positive pulse from the magnetic flyback effect of a coil, essentially zapping the positive terminal of the battery with an NST, dioded, into a spark gap. The negative is connected to ground, just as in the Bedini configurations. The real question is, WHY DID THIS PRODUCE UNCONVENTIONAL RESULTS? If I really knew the full answer to that question then I would have a working device by now, but I don't. I have a lot of ideas, but the ideas only last until I can actually prove them at the workbench.

One last parting shot: why did Kapanadze bury an old radiator in the ground before connecting the device in that first garden video? Why not just attach to the building wiring as Don did? This is a rhetorical question, because I already know the answer, as should you if you have actually built and operated a Tesla coil of any significant size and power.


as you said it's a combination, let everyone work for the part he know better after that we could gather all the ideas we have for a successful device !
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  #11886  
Old 10-05-2017, 01:50 AM
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If you the answer then tell us. I agree about radiant energy and capacitors, grounding is probably for safety reason imho.
No, the ground is an absolutely essential part of the physics and nothing will work without it. The effect is due to the large (about 1F) capacitance of the Earth. The reason you need a much better ground than merely a single house ground rod (common in all up-to-code modern construction) is GROUND IMPEDANCE. At DC, you can settle for a low RESISTANCE ground. At AC, especially at RF frequencies, the total impedance of the ground connection to current is dominated by the inductive reactance, not the resistance. For a Tesla coil, operating typically at a couple hundred kilohertz, even a small amount of inductance in the connection is enough to cause significant voltage drops on the ground line, because a large amount of current passes through it during normal operation, not just during fault transients. If you try to run a Tesla coil by connecting it to your house wiring you will find this out the hard way, as the ground-loop current induced voltage could be significant and is quite capable of damaging electronics or worse.

Ham radio operators also have this problem. It is quite difficult at higher frequencies to achieve a low impedance ground, and any antennas which depend on ground currents (like a 1/4 wave vertical, for instance) depend for good performance on a low impedance ground.

If you are using a Tesla coil-like arrangement to try and tap radiant energy (like Kapanadze's primitive coil-on-a-paper-towel-holder), success depends on getting a ground that is low impedance enough that the electrons you're getting into the storage capacitor are still radiant in character. If you have a voltage drop in your ground rod and wire, this is working against you.

I'll attempt to explain further. For some reason (still unknown) it seems like the electrons care about where they are in a voltage gradient. If you have a high positive voltage overhead (like the ionosphere), then electrons that come up from the ground have a radiant character, at least for the first small fraction of the (large) voltage difference between the ground and ionosphere. For a radiant energy device, we are simulating this artificially. For instance, let's assume the top of your Tesla coil is running at 100 KV peak to peak. On the positive-going half-cycle, a grounded capacitor near the coil, within the electric field, will attract some electrons up from the ground. As long as the voltage at the ground end of the capacitor is VERY CLOSE to true ground potential, these electrons will still have that cold/radiant character at the point where they get stored in the capacitor. I don't yet know what the fraction is, perhaps it's 0.01% to 0.1% or so? So if it's 0.01%, then you can't have any more voltage rise on your ground line than 10 volts or you will only get conventional electricity in your capacitor, not cold electricity.

This suggests several strategies for maximizing the potential for success: first would be lowering the ground impedance through doing something like burying an old truck radiator! Also, lowering the frequency might help because the inductive reactance will be proportionally lower. This may explain Don's love of the 35 KHz (or so) 12V automotive NST's instead of Tesla coils, which typically operate several times higher than that. A third strategy would be to simply up the voltage of the high voltage source, so that in spite of ground impedance the electrons you're getting are still what you want.

Think of the voltage gradient between your high voltage source (which is "disturbing ambient" in Don-speak) and ground as a layer cake. You only want just the thinnest possible layer of icing at the ground end. You don't want to cut too deeply into the cake or else you'll still electrons but they will no longer work the desired magic. I think this goes a long way toward explaining why a very few researchers have had apparent success replicating Don-like systems over the years but then everyone else didn't. Those people must have had a particularly good ground, either already at their house or installed for experimentation, and as a result got cold electricity right away. I suspect that many or even most experimenters who at least got as far as ringing coils and getting appreciable resonant power transfer onto the secondary could go back and have success if they spent some serious effort in improving their grounding. Multiple ground rods or even ground plates, adding water, backfilling with salt mixtures or conductive concrete, grounding straps instead of wires, are all strategies that might be employed.
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  #11887  
Old 10-07-2017, 05:10 PM
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Don Smith resonance device is an energy harvesting system, it's based on neutrino power that exist almost everywhere , Tesla referred to neutrinos as cosmic radiations even the name neutrino wasn't introduced at that time ..

the neutrino particle has no charge no mass this give it the opportunity to move quicker than light, in other hands this particle exist a long time ago from the beginning of life, the biggest source of neutrino is the centers of galaxies which is the black holes , as we know the black holes are the engines keep lives across the huge galactic distance so the neutrino is a vital particle ,

the earth receive this huge energetic streams and keep a portion of it in the core , now we know the earth is growing due to this invisible particle .. the effect on our body is also amazing because the DNA of child twine itself according the available power so the human body keep shrinking as we know the old human body was giant !! this is also the perfect situation because the gravity was weak ..

some of the above information from Pro Meyl description about neutrino but what i am trying is to make a bridge between his work and Don Smith system .. it's clear Don has a very strong back ground in this field to see this let me explain more :



Pro Meyl said it's not possible to take the power from the vacuum or the ZPE field so the only possibility is power from particles but in his experimental kits there's over unity !!! he said it's from other human sources probably military radiation, the radiation that came from the universe has such a high speed so it's no possible to harvest .. for a device to be an energy producer he must make particles , the particles production must be in one point .. the electron is a ball so we need a device has a major interaction in just one point ..

now let's see the solution of Don Smith, in the collection of posts in YAHOO group there's a question and an answer from Don :

this is the link : https://energyevo.com/2015/01/18/upd...y-yahoo-group/

Q: Mr Smith one question I am asking to myself, is about the concept of Bloch wall you are talking about in your book, In 1/2 wave Tesla coil there the 2 side of L2 are open, it seem to be half wave because the 2 side are open..So in you design when the L2 is center tap does it make the same effect?

A: The center tap You refer to is not fully understood. It is probably the broken dipole referred to by Bearden, which allows the background energy to enter the system. The center tap and Bloch wall are closely related in function. Coils, antennas, capacitors and such are energy pumps reacting to external forces, therefore nonlinear and have the potential to collect energy from the ambient background, when activated by external action. An earth and or air grounding is required to complete the energy system. These are essential to magnetic resonance energy systems.




the solution of Don is genius because he fixed the Bloch wall area in a coil operating in AC , this allow his unique coil to be able to collect energy from the ambient , this also solve the problem encountered by Pro Meyl because we don't need to receive the cosmic energy in the pure form ..we only need to shake it.. primarily the particles exist in the earth since it's a huge reservoir.. shaking the neutrino will produce positron ( voltage ) and electron ( amperage ), in this point Meyl agree with Don because Meyl explain the neutrino as a particle with both an electron and positron inside when excited give both in real active state ..
Don also suggest the presence of electrons as pair in inactive state !

whatever the exact description IMO we are forced to think deep in this special point ..
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  #11888  
Old 10-08-2017, 05:28 AM
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Think of the voltage gradient between your high voltage source (which is "disturbing ambient" in Don-speak) and ground as a layer cake. You only want just the thinnest possible layer of icing at the ground end. You don't want to cut too deeply into the cake or else you'll still electrons but they will no longer work the desired magic. I think this goes a long way toward explaining why a very few researchers have had apparent success replicating Don-like systems over the years but then everyone else didn't. Those people must have had a particularly good ground, either already at their house or installed for experimentation, and as a result got cold electricity right away. I suspect that many or even most experimenters who at least got as far as ringing coils and getting appreciable resonant power transfer onto the secondary could go back and have success if they spent some serious effort in improving their grounding. Multiple ground rods or even ground plates, adding water, backfilling with salt mixtures or conductive concrete, grounding straps instead of wires, are all strategies that might be employed.
My apologies for not replying sooner to the thread. Interesting observation about the earth connection. I do recall the electrician driving a copper rod approximately 1200mm into the ground. Also, where I live is where the soil was "turned" over about 150 years ago by the gold miners of the day. It is very alkaline and almost pure shale where the site was back-filled. Possibly a contributing factor for my lack lustre response with my "Don".

I am also currently winding some new coils using a heavier gauge wire. Will post a photo when complete. Also, I have built a rudimentary spark gap given that I have been churning through the GDT's. Too much current I suspect.

Excellent thread for the persistent type of builder!

Regards

Dwane
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  #11889  
Old 10-08-2017, 02:03 PM
tswift tswift is online now
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My apologies for not replying sooner to the thread. Interesting observation about the earth connection. I do recall the electrician driving a copper rod approximately 1200mm into the ground. Also, where I live is where the soil was "turned" over about 150 years ago by the gold miners of the day. It is very alkaline and almost pure shale where the site was back-filled. Possibly a contributing factor for my lack lustre response with my "Don".

I am also currently winding some new coils using a heavier gauge wire. Will post a photo when complete. Also, I have built a rudimentary spark gap given that I have been churning through the GDT's. Too much current I suspect.

Excellent thread for the persistent type of builder!

Regards

Dwane
Well, apparently even a normal household ground CAN be good enough if enough other factors are in play. My one positive experiment was done using the third-prong ground connection to the household wiring. Even just going out and watering the soil around the ground rod will likely help significantly. If you read Tesla's "Colorado Springs Notes", you can see the fits that he had trying to get a good ground in the rocky soil out there. At times they had to leave the water running continuously to get a low resistance ground.

The soil at my location is limestone rock mixed with highly impermeable clay, very far from ideal for a ground. I once installed a small solar power system, and for lightning protection I dug a large hole to install the ground rod in, about a foot wide by about six and half feet deep. I would have gone the whole eight feet, but I hit a second rock layer at six and a half and I was NOT going to take the huge time and effort to try busting rock at that depth. As it was, I probably spent ten hours or more of work digging that hole. I put a standard copper-clad steel rod in the middle of the hole, and then backfilled with a conductive mixture of 75% gypsum (calcium sulfate), 20% sodium sulfate, and 5% sodium chloride. This is a recipe I obtained from some military handbook about grounding and lightning protection for communication equipment that I can no longer find, but I remember the proportions. It greatly reduces the ground resistance by effectively increasing the diameter of the ground rod from half an inch to a foot, but over time it gets less effective as the salts slowly leach into the soil. Pure sodium chloride is more available but far worse at leaching and more toxic to surrounding plants.

Unfortunately, this hole and ground rod isn't near my shop building where I have my electronics workbench. What I really need is a very good ground immediately behind the building, where I can bring in a ground strap right through a conduit. Due to the difficulties of digging in the rock here, I'm not even going to attempt to dig another hole by hand, my back isn't as good as it used to be. I have started checking prices on equipment rentals and it's possible to get a backhoe or excavator for well under $100 an hour. With a good-sized machine, someone experienced can make short work of digging me a hole about 4 feet cubed. Then I just need to source an old truck radiator, a copper one so that I can solder a ground strap onto it.

If you read all of Don's available writings and watch the conference videos in time sequence, you can actually see the progression Don went through as he tried to understand the technology himself. He must have gotten something to work fairly early on but still didn't have a good understanding of it. He called it the "Earth Electrical System" and talked about soil conditions and geological maps and the energy coming from the earth. Later on he moved away from this idea, and toward the end of his career we see him zapping capacitors with Tesla coils and talking about the "Ambient Energy Generator". It's clear to me now that this is the actual mechanism (diagrammed as the "ambient energy generator"), but the earth grounding conditions matter a lot as to how easy it is to tap it. So my next strategy is to spend some of my project budget and actually hire a backhoe to dig a huge hole for a much, much better ground. Combined with this I'm going back to the spark-excited Tesla coil arrangement with much higher voltages than the solid-state CW rig I've been using for experimentation. Properly tuned I can get sparks up to maybe 4 or 5 inches (10 to 15 cm for our metric friends), which is not bad for a tiny low-power benchtop coil.
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  #11890  
Old 10-08-2017, 10:47 PM
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studying the nature phenomena can solve great problem, instead of digging in the earth for good earth ground which is very important it's better to dig in the phenomena itself.. one of the interesting phenomena is lightning!

strong and immense lightning is linked with hurricanes, Don smith said lightning is over unity effect this also alert a lots of inventors to think about power from the sky, the following is a satellite image of IRMA hurricane :





the red arrows show a strong lightning in the edge and in the center as if they linked together at the same time! now they try to better understand the lightning to predict the hurricane,

electricity is a spin phenomena, spinning is a common behavior that can be found in atom in tornado; earth , sun , planets , galaxies .. etc ..

spinning the electron make it move around the wire which allow super conductivity to be produced in room temperature , instead of working with normal electron we need vortex electron :




this is ring electrons what we need, we could produce such electrons if energy balance is achieved .. exactly as permanent magnet, the phenomena we are using until now is no longer needed ! instead of spinning the magnet to produce electricity we need to spin the electron itself !! the needed geometry can be seeing in hurricane or galaxy.
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  #11891  
Old 10-09-2017, 12:59 AM
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electricity is a spin phenomena, spinning is a common behavior that can be found in atom in tornado; earth , sun , planets , galaxies .. etc ..

spinning the electron make it move around the wire which allow super conductivity to be produced in room temperature , instead of working with normal electron we need vortex electron :
Hi Med,

Just wondering, how did you come up to the conclusion that Electricity is a spin phenomenon?.

Hi Tswift,

that looks like a really huge job on the "Grounding"... I've been meaning to ask this..
What really is the significance of the "Good Ground Connection"?...
If I have a system with 80% efficiency with a concrete ground.. could I get close to 100% (or more) with a good dirt ground?..
though I could test this out myself but would be limited to somewhat next year.. the place I am now is an urban and no more open dirt ground is available (all are concrete)..
in the place I will be moving would have a dirt ground..
appreciate if anyone could answer.
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  #11892  
Old 10-09-2017, 01:46 AM
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Hi Med,

Just wondering, how did you come up to the conclusion that Electricity is a spin phenomenon?.

Hi Tswift,

that looks like a really huge job on the "Grounding"... I've been meaning to ask this..
What really is the significance of the "Good Ground Connection"?...
If I have a system with 80% efficiency with a concrete ground.. could I get close to 100% (or more) with a good dirt ground?..
though I could test this out myself but would be limited to somewhat next year.. the place I am now is an urban and no more open dirt ground is available (all are concrete)..
in the place I will be moving would have a dirt ground..
appreciate if anyone could answer.



Hello ricards ,


it's known the electron has a little magnetic field but there's a condition for electron to make such a tiny magnetic field, it must spin around its axis, the circulation of electrons in a coil produce also a magnetic field along the coil , for more info about electron spin please watch this short video :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl-zUmeYj74


the magnetic field around the wire make a circle which is the low energy preferred direction of a group of electrons , these groups do spin to produce such a circles, this phenomena is composed and complicated but IMO electrons spin is very important !
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Old 10-09-2017, 02:18 AM
ricards ricards is online now
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Hello ricards ,

it's known the electron has a little magnetic field but there's a condition for electron to make such a tiny magnetic field, it must spin around its axis, the circulation of electrons in a coil produce also a magnetic field along the coil , for more info about electron spin please watch this short video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl-zUmeYj74

the magnetic field around the wire make a circle which is the low energy preferred direction of a group of electrons , these groups do spin to produce such a circles, this phenomena is composed and complicated but IMO electrons spin is very important !
Hi Med,

Thanks for clarifying, however.. I guess its really hard for me to grasp the electron spin theory (though I haven't watched the video yet)... whenever an explanation about atomic stuff is presented its as if its in a different realm.. things like centrifugal, and centripetal does not exist anymore.. I could not come up a seaming picture of from our world into the atomic..

Its easier for me to visualize things from cosmos light years into meters or inch scale (there are even videos of it) but from meters to nano or even pico.. it seems there's always a Missing picture that links them..
anyway off topic.. thanks for your time.
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:33 AM
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Hi Med,

Thanks for clarifying, however.. I guess its really hard for me to grasp the electron spin theory (though I haven't watched the video yet)... whenever an explanation about atomic stuff is presented its as if its in a different realm.. things like centrifugal, and centripetal does not exist anymore.. I could not come up a seaming picture of from our world into the atomic..

Its easier for me to visualize things from cosmos light years into meters or inch scale (there are even videos of it) but from meters to nano or even pico.. it seems there's always a Missing picture that links them..
anyway off topic.. thanks for your time.

you are welcome ,
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:51 PM
tswift tswift is online now
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What really is the significance of the "Good Ground Connection"?...
If I have a system with 80% efficiency with a concrete ground.. could I get close to 100% (or more) with a good dirt ground?..
though I could test this out myself but would be limited to somewhat next year.. the place I am now is an urban and no more open dirt ground is available (all are concrete)..
in the place I will be moving would have a dirt ground..
appreciate if anyone could answer.
Well, remember that all this is essentially just an untested theory on my part in my ongoing attempt to make sense of Don's work. But I do know and can prove with my small benchtop Tesla coil that, for reasons that are not yet clear, electricity does seem to care where along a voltage gradient it is. This is my experiment where the sparks turn white in the very middle of a several-inch long spark, just for a few millimeters in the very center. There's no obvious reason it should happen and yet it does, for some reason the electricity changes character in a visible fashion. This effect is demonstrable and repeatable.

I need to make some graphics to explain this concept better, but that will have to wait until I have some more time to do it. But if I am right, then the problem that the vast majority of people having building Don Smith-like devices and getting them to work, has very little to do with the build particulars of the device (that is, once you get the HVM driving the coils and at least some power transfer). If your ground is not good enough you will never see any OU from the device because you won't be getting cold electricity. Just improving the ground might be all it takes. As with all good science, I intend to prove this point by demonstration, so I'm calling around for prices on a backhoe service to dig me a big hole so I can bury a copper grounding plate. Then I will resume my bench testing, and hopefully I can prove that the exact same device which is not OU with a household ground, can go OU with a much better ground, at least that's my current working theory.

One of the most puzzling aspects to the Don Smith mystery is why there have been a few people who claimed to have success. If you read this whole thread from the beginning, you will find perhaps four or five who claimed that the magic showed up and it worked as intended. In no case did they seem to do anything all that different from the rest of us who have been trying various configurations and variations without success. Speaking for myself, I have build HUNDREDS of different bench test configurations and there are very few ideas I haven't tried, but nothing exotic has ever happened with them. However, I did have that one successful test where clearly something different and special happened, and it took no more than zapping a battery with a high voltage through a spark gap. So assuming these people are telling the truth, what is it that's making the difference? Why do some people (quite a small fraction) seem to get results when everyone else doesn't? The answer could be as simple as them living where the soil conductivity is extraordinarily high, so even a building wiring ground produces good results. Too bad none of them seem to still be around to chat with the rest of us, they seem to get confused and leave when no one else can reproduce their results. It would be a useful test for any such person to take the device to a different location (preferably miles away in a different soil type) and see if the device also works.

Also, if my understanding is correct (unproven) then it should be possible to defeat poor grounding by increasing voltage enough. Assuming Don's suitcase device was genuine (also unproven) then he clearly had it worked out well enough to use any old building wiring ground and get results.

I think the evidence clearly points to the fact that the grounding is critically important. Did you ever stop to wonder why many of Don's schematics have adjustable ground coupling? Did you ever wonder why, in all of Kapanadze's videos, they make a very big point of showing off a separate grounding provision at the beginning of the video? I also once stumbled across a translated Russian schematic of a very Don Smith-like device, and on the schematic was clearly written "the ground must be good, else the device not work". This project has cost me plenty to date and I'm not quitting now, so what's a few hundred more dollars for a backhoe to dig a hole and find out?
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:28 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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Energy Unlimited

Should we be worried?

Kill Switch (2017) - IMDb

Hmm...

Dwane
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:30 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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Earth Grounding

Hello,

I must get learn to get past the humour of the rational world as in my post above.

The earth grounding seems to be a really big issue. I am mindful of the EV Gray circuit that used a 12 volt battery as a grounding point. Is it safe to use a large battery as a replacement for a poor local earth connection with the high voltages used in the Don Smith designs?

Dwane
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:23 AM
tswift tswift is online now
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The earth grounding seems to be a really big issue. I am mindful of the EV Gray circuit that used a 12 volt battery as a grounding point. Is it safe to use a large battery as a replacement for a poor local earth connection with the high voltages used in the Don Smith designs?
Actually, this brings up a good point, something I wanted to discuss. What is the connection between Don Smith and Ed Gray? Why were they both apparently able to tap the same radiant energy but in such different ways? Spending some serious time thinking about this is highly recommended because it has the potential to shine some light on the nature of radiant energy itself. Based on my own thinking on the subject, I formulated a hypothesis that the first (but only just the very first) little bit of charge coming out of a charged capacitance is the magic radiant energy, which is just phase conjugate electricity.

In Don's systems the capacitor is the earth, in Ed's it's the high voltage capacitor. In the Ed Gray system we have pictures of, the capacitor is 2 microfarads and there is a resistor in the discharge path of approximately 1000 ohms, so the RC time constant of this circuit is therefore 2 milliseconds. While it can't be conclusively proven what he was using, if I recall correctly Ed's patent states that short pulsed discharge times of 5-10 microseconds are desirable. This is therefore a very small fraction of the time constant of the discharge circuit and the capacitor really doesn't discharge any appreciable degree on a single pulse. Likewise, the voltage drop is essentially all taken up by the resistor, and an inductance in series (like the primary coil of Ed's motor) will not see very much voltage across it at all. It's only those first few electrons coming out of the battery negative, while the full dipole voltage is still in effect, that take on that radiant character and work the magic.

Or at least it sounds like a reasonable hypothesis, one that merits further testing. In Don's system the large Earth capacitance is what we're trying to tap, and it's those first electrons coming up from ground toward a high voltage dipole that work the magic. If you can think about it in these terms, the two systems are not so dissimilar after all. Obviously it would be superior to have a completely portable device requiring no permanent ground connection, but I think we'd all settle for provable, demonstrable, repeatable overunity with high COP of any form whatsoever, then we can focus on refining it and making it better.

I obtained a few high voltage MOSFET's a while back with the intent of putting this to the test once experimenting time permits. If this is correct then you could actually charge up any reasonable high voltage capacitor (a microwave oven cap might do), put a series resistance with it (capable of withstanding that big of a voltage drop!), and a transistor in series to shut off the discharge after 5 microseconds and see what it does to a coil. Easy enough to try....
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:02 AM
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Also, if my understanding is correct (unproven) then it should be possible to defeat poor grounding by increasing voltage enough. Assuming Don's suitcase device was genuine (also unproven) then he clearly had it worked out well enough to use any old building wiring ground and get results.
Well, This makes a lot of sense. and probably the reason why you would have voltage reading when you stick one lead to a high voltage and the other not connected.. because you certainly have potential difference from the High voltage module to the air which is ambient.. and would read more if you stick it to the ground (less voltage gradient)..

------

It would seem Heat and Electric phenomenon is somehow the same.. well they're both energy.. it should be.
its as if we already have voltage potential right now like we already have absolute temperature..

+++

anyone see the analogy?! that got me thinking!
If there was a differential in temperature "Heat" will flow.. If there was a difference in Electric Potential "Electricity" would happen..
It like its only relative If you have 400V in your body and I have 400V in mine it would seem that we do not have any voltage potential at all..
ahh.. another term for "Voltage" is "Potential Difference".. well that makes a lot of sense now!.

getting further down below, we would have more potential difference!
okay I see it!

(I actually was talking in my head below the ---- part and realized I was typing! after +++ )
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:15 AM
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(I actually was talking in my head below the ---- part and realized I was typing! after +++ )


Hello ,

you are not the only one, i have the same problem too!!!
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:53 PM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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correcting errors of judgement

Hello again,

I think I have made several errors in my initial "test " build of Don's Tesla based circuit. First, My layout has been all over the place. where do I start and stop measuring the relative inductances? Next, capturing the radiant pulse requires a very close connection where it can be trapped - if that is the best term. My diodes are a bus trip away from where Don has placed his Diodes. Next, I think, due to my casual layout, I have been unable to work to a resonance - quarterwave. No wonder I have failed. Maybe, my non working replication, it is not specifically an earth problem yet. Clean up the original circuit then test that hypothesis.

I have ordered some HV caps from overseas. No-one here seems to have them. So it will be a while before I can recommence/ finalise my new build.

On the EV Gray. I was of the understanding that his workable knowledge of the circuit operation was limited. Even later builders did not get it.

It is a truism, I think, to state that there is a specific connection with Gray and Don. This has to be Tesla related phenomenon.

Have to go.

There are some great posts on this thread.

Dwane
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:56 PM
tswift tswift is online now
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I think I have made several errors in my initial "test " build of Don's Tesla based circuit. First, My layout has been all over the place. where do I start and stop measuring the relative inductances? Next, capturing the radiant pulse requires a very close connection where it can be trapped - if that is the best term. My diodes are a bus trip away from where Don has placed his Diodes. Next, I think, due to my casual layout, I have been unable to work to a resonance - quarterwave. No wonder I have failed. Maybe, my non working replication, it is not specifically an earth problem yet. Clean up the original circuit then test that hypothesis.
Yes, you're on the right track. The circuit has to operate properly in a conventional manner before you need to worry about the unconventional part. Whether you're using the "classic" Don "tabletop" configuration with a step-up coil, or the "Zilano" version with a step-down coil, several things have to happen. The HVM has to supply power to oscillate the primary, and the primary and secondary have to be tuned alike, or at least reasonably closely. Remember that this part of the device is really just a Tesla coil. I know I keep repeating myself, but building a regular Tesla coil first is great experience for experimenting with the Don Smith device. Don added a parallel cap on the secondary to bring the frequency down much lower. The true unloaded 1/4 wave resonance on a short coil is much higher, usually in the megahertz range.

All this has to work well enough to get a few watts of power through the diodes into the storage caps. Based on Don's build it probably doesn't have to be more than a couple of watts to do some good, but the more watts available the easier it will be to run something useful from the output. Also, adding some ferrite toroid cores inside the coil form increases the inductance and the coupling ratio, and improves the power transfer by around a factor of 2. The power gain (if any) won't appear until the output of the isolation transformer, and it will run cold as power is tapped from it if all is working correctly. For better results, you can use a beefier HVM and put more watts into the input to get more at the output. I think Zilano once mentioned that her input was something like 60 watts (12V at 5A). The efficiency of the step-up or step-down coils is not very high in my experience with experimentation, you might get something like 10%-40% of the power transfer into the secondary and through the diodes into the cap bank. You can measure this by the charging rate of a known cap bank, or with a suitable load resistor. I made myself an HV resistor bank that's up to 2M and 10KV rated, you'll have to calculate the necessary resistance for your setup using Ohm's law. If the output is DC then a standard voltmeter across the load resistor (with a cap of some kind to smooth out the pulsations) will allow you to compute the power (using P=V^2/R), assuming you can get a voltmeter to work properly this close to an oscillating Tesla coil. A scope works better because the probe and the instrument are grounded and shielded.

FINALLY, once all that is operating properly but no overunity magic power gain is showing up, it's time to worry about your grounding provision. This is where I'm stuck too, I am fairly confident in my understanding of the device operation and how it is supposed to work and yet no gain is happening even when I use any of various arrangements to take current from the cap bank and send it through an inverter or transformer. I think the last piece remaining is a good enough ground, but you have to have all the other pieces in place first. Keep building!

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On the EV Gray. I was of the understanding that his workable knowledge of the circuit operation was limited. Even later builders did not get it.

It is a truism, I think, to state that there is a specific connection with Gray and Don. This has to be Tesla related phenomenon.
Yes, after much study I think it is clear that both Don and Ed were making use of the same radiant energy phenomenon, although with completely different apparatus. What's important is the physics, and it's clear that although Ed found some things that worked and produced unconventional effects, he really didn't understand how. Don kept experimenting and theorizing and I think got fairly close to the truth. I don't think he knew it all but he clearly understood the physics well enough to engineer working devices in any of several different configurations. Then he left us a partially-complete puzzle with some pieces filled in and other sections missing completely.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:30 PM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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confusion to order

Hello Tswift,

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I am mindful of John Bedini's comment about the "Capture" connection for the radiant pulse directly it leaves the coil. The working examples of Don's 160 Kw design that I have seen show a very well ordered and closely coupled devices. It is perhaps, that like myself, when doing rudimentary tests that others attempting Don's set up, their approach is somewhat a loose arrangements of components!! Failure is instantaneous!

It would also appear to myself that we are looking at combining the "Standing Wave" phenomenon with resonance in combination with the coupling of LC tuned circuits!! If true, this is the minefield that has to be traversed and understood. At the moment I am trying to formulate this theoretical mud pie into some sort of order. The only way I can see where a standing wave might exist in L1 is between the pole of the spark gap and the return point to the centre tap of the NST coil. Or vice versa if the spark gap is in the return leg to the centre tap. If I am correct, then the use of Caps to reduce the frequency is the combination two theories on L!.

Does that make sense?

Edit: with regard to Ed. When Marvin cole did not show up for work, this is where it all fell apart for Ed. His knowledge was superficial at best, if I read the information available correctly. and, especially that information as researched by Mark MacKay.
Regards

Dwane
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:05 AM
tswift tswift is online now
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I am mindful of John Bedini's comment about the "Capture" connection for the radiant pulse directly it leaves the coil. The working examples of Don's 160 Kw design that I have seen show a very well ordered and closely coupled devices. It is perhaps, that like myself, when doing rudimentary tests that others attempting Don's set up, their approach is somewhat a loose arrangements of components!! Failure is instantaneous!
While a pretty build is always nice and usually takes up less bench space, I don't think that's what keeping you (or anyone). If your coils are oscillating and you're getting power transfer into the L2 coil, enough to charge some caps and actually run something, then it should be good enough. If the storage caps are physically too far from the L2 coil then it may be less effective for generating cold electricity (according to Zilano, and I think I understand why this would be the case). Otherwise, very little of the build layout detail should matter.

Quote:
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It would also appear to myself that we are looking at combining the "Standing Wave" phenomenon with resonance in combination with the coupling of LC tuned circuits!! If true, this is the minefield that has to be traversed and understood. At the moment I am trying to formulate this theoretical mud pie into some sort of order. The only way I can see where a standing wave might exist in L1 is between the pole of the spark gap and the return point to the centre tap of the NST coil. Or vice versa if the spark gap is in the return leg to the centre tap. If I am correct, then the use of Caps to reduce the frequency is the combination two theories on L!.
Yes, the instant you put a cap in parallel with L2 you have two frequencies at work. There is the natural 1/4 wave resonance that you would see by ringing it without an attached cap, and then there is the LC resonance due to the coil and cap forming a parallel resonant circuit. If you're careful about measuring wire (and tweaking from there, because this isn't 100% precise) then you can get both resonances to happen at the same point on the end of the secondary. I know, because I have done it. It's quite tricky to achieve, and probably impossible without a scope, because the 1/4 wave resonant frequency is not only a function of the wire length (although that is approximately correct), the coil geometry (length to width ratio, and turns spacing) also matters. Generally the final frequency ends up being somewhat higher than you would expect by just computing the 1/4 wave resonance with the wire length. However, even making SURE that the primary and secondary resonate together, at both LC resonance and 1/4 wave resonance, STILL ISN'T ENOUGH. I know, because I did it. THIS IS NOT THE SOURCE OF THE MAGIC. Think about Zilano's step-down coil design where the wire length of the primary and secondary bear no design relationship. All you need is the LC resonance to be equal (or close- remember the secondary is loaded so the Q is very low). This is what gives you WATTS into the cap bank.

As far as bench experimentation, I have had the best success using the Zilano-style step-down coil where the HVM oscillates an L1 coil of something like 160 turns on a 1-1/4 inch PVC coil form, with an L2 of just a few turns around the middle of the coil. For power transfer, it seems to make little difference whether there are parallel caps with L2 or not. When using ferrite cores in the coil form the coupling ratio is enough to get decent power transfer into the secondary even without resonance. Hopefully just improving the grounding will be enough to get the desired unconventional results from this configuration.

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Edit: with regard to Ed. When Marvin cole did not show up for work, this is where it all fell apart for Ed. His knowledge was superficial at best, if I read the information available correctly. and, especially that information as researched by Mark MacKay.
Yep, I agree. That seems to have been basically the story of what happened. Over and over we have this sequence of events where some inventor either by accident or trial and error discovered a combination that gave unusual results, but they never had a good explanation for it. Only Don and a very few others seem to have gotten pretty close to an understanding of the actual physics at work. This is why I've been trying so hard to view this as a physics experiment and slowly, painstakingly, develop an understanding of what is actually happening and why. With that understanding it should be easy to build a working clone of a Don Smith design, or even come up with new designs altogether. Without the understanding all we're really doing is shooting in the dark. You can read the stories on the prior pages of this thread of the very few who seemed (or at least claimed) to have some success building a Don Smith-like device, but weren't able to help anyone else get theirs working as well and finally gave up trying. Particularly unhelpful was the one guy who said basically "oh yeah, just build it exactly like Don said and it works". Clearly there's still an issue somewhere, a reason why it fails for most folks but apparently works for a few people here and there. Based on my research so far, I think the grounding is the most likely explanation for this issue.
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:33 AM
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Speaking of understanding and explaining the physics at work, here is my latest attempt at explanation. This is my hypothesis about how the radiant effect works. It is an intrinsic property of any dipole, a fundamental symmetry of nature. Now I'm going to get all Tom Bearden on you. By merely establishing the dipolarity, we are engineering the quantum vacuum. Even with no charge carriers present, I think most people would agree that the presence of the dipole changes the structure of spacetime SOMEHOW, such that when any charge carriers show up they feel its presence. But the structure of the quantum vacuum is ALREADY changed before, and independent of, any charge carriers.

Here's my theory: as charge carriers (such the conduction electrons in a wire, or the ions in a plasma) move up or down the voltage gradient of the dipole, they appear to change character. The dipole has a "hot" end, and a "cold" end, and this has to do with action and reaction, not necessarily with "plus" and "minus" polarity. You can demonstrate with a Tesla coil that the color of the streamers changes along the path, even of a single streamer. It turns white for a section in the middle for no obvious reason. Thinking about it logically, this only makes sense if the electricity on one end is of a different character than the electricity on the other end, or else they would merge seamlessly and the color would not change.

Tesla's radiant energy receiver patent #685,957 shows the method to capture just the electrons at the cold end of the potential gradient caused either by a natural source (the ionosphere), or by an artificial source (high positive voltage of any kind). This is all a Don Smith device does. For the Gray device, the dipole is established across a high voltage capacitor, and then a very short pulse of electrons is captured from the negative terminal, while the full dipole voltage is still present in order to cause it to be the desired "cold" electricity.

If this theoretical model is correct (no guarantees), then essentially BOTH kinds of electricity are present at every part of a circuit, or even in empty space around an open-circuit dipole. In order to achieve the desired overunity results like Don and Ed, what is necessary is a kind of fractional distillation of electricity, if you will. We have to get just the sliver of electricity nearest the cold end of the dipole so that it will be very nearly 100% cold electricity (using Ed Gray's terminology). It seems that even a very small fraction of hot electricity in the mix is enough to spoil the show, which is why your grounding has to be very good for a Don Smith configuration to work properly.

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, so I submit this for your consideration:

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Old 10-15-2017, 04:27 AM
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To illustrate this further, I finally managed to take a picture of the white spark. It was as difficult as I expected, with lighting, exposure, and focusing all being issues to contend with. The setup is my small benchtop Tesla coil, powered by a ZVS driver. Power is about 20W. The coil is 3" diameter and about 14" long, resonant frequency about 700 KHz. None of the particulars matter, any Tesla coil should show the exact same effect. It's just that with a low power coil like this it's easy to get closer to it for observation while running, which is how I noticed the white spark effect in the first place.

While the coil is operating, any conductive object brought near the coil will show a fan of sparks leading back towards the coil (the "reaction"). Likewise, there is a fan of sparks coming off the coil (the "action"). When the object is brought near enough, then the two sets of streamers will start to meet on the stronger discharges, and you will find that the small region of overlap right in the middle is where the sparks turn visibly white.

Here is a still picture of the coil in operation with a grounded wire near the hot end of the coil. I tried to capture the white spark effect with still photos but was unsuccessful due to the exposure time. This at least shows the setup.



Here is a still frame from the video I took, it's much darker but the short exposure time allowed me to find a few frames which show the white region clearly. This is unretouched and it really does look like this to the naked eye while observing.

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Old 10-15-2017, 05:06 AM
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Let's take a closer look at the spark itself. We can see the white region approximately in the middle, but it's not centered. This makes sense when you realize that due to ground impedance, the tip of the wire is not at zero volts. In fact it's quite far from zero, as you can see from the glow around the alligator clip holding the insulated wire in the first still photo above. Some of the voltage drop, the dipole, is happening IN THE GROUNDED WIRE. WE WON'T GET RESULTS FROM A DON SMITH CONFIGURATION LIKE THIS. We have to get down much closer to true earth potential in order to be capturing pure cold electricity at the reaction end of the dipole. How close, I don't know yet.



Ok, now let's put all this together. Here are the theory and experiment side by side, so hopefully everyone can understand what I am attempting to explain:

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Old 10-16-2017, 02:53 AM
Dwane Dwane is offline
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White spark and more?

Hello Tswift,

Once again, thank you for your comprehensive reply. I think I have been oscillating the L2 at around 10Kv. I have made a pick up for the scope using a 100mh coil and r/c network. This clearly shows my HV activity. However, I am reading the same reaction on both sides of the isolating HV diodes - rated at 100ns. This is disconcerting as I am unable to rationalise this. I get the impression I am nullifying the output - no rectification of signal into the caps. I do not have the L2 to what I suspect should be the tuned resonant frequency. I'll know better when my HV caps arrive. I have calculated the L1 and L2 caps as almost the same as Don's! L1= .2uf and L2 = .046uf . The frequency the new coils are optimising at is 221Khz with the output from the function generator. More on that later when my components arrive.

I have found your observations on the white light intriguing. Very astute observations. I have taken the liberty of expanding the image to a much larger size. To my mind, I am seeing a "whorl" appearing that has more than one white spot - more like a gradual change of temperature about the emmission. And, I might also suggest that this whorl is being created within the confines of the field Hot to cold you have created. That is, the phenomenon might be indicative of a median field demarcation- a sort of "free" or "buffer" zone between the poles.

I hope that is not too elaborate an explanation!

Regards

Dwane
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:12 PM
tswift tswift is online now
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Once again, thank you for your comprehensive reply. I think I have been oscillating the L2 at around 10Kv. I have made a pick up for the scope using a 100mh coil and r/c network. This clearly shows my HV activity. However, I am reading the same reaction on both sides of the isolating HV diodes - rated at 100ns. This is disconcerting as I am unable to rationalise this. I get the impression I am nullifying the output - no rectification of signal into the caps. I do not have the L2 to what I suspect should be the tuned resonant frequency. I'll know better when my HV caps arrive. I have calculated the L1 and L2 caps as almost the same as Don's! L1= .2uf and L2 = .046uf . The frequency the new coils are optimising at is 221Khz with the output from the function generator. More on that later when my components arrive.
Yes, until you get the resonance between L1 and L2 tuned properly you won't really know. I was going to mention using a function generator to check the resonant frequency on the coils but you already figured that out. The tuning doesn't have to be as precise as you might think - the resonance on L1 is quite sharp, but L2 is loaded so its Q is very low and the tuning is broad because of it. If it's within perhaps 10% it will probably work OK.

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I have found your observations on the white light intriguing. Very astute observations. I have taken the liberty of expanding the image to a much larger size. To my mind, I am seeing a "whorl" appearing that has more than one white spot - more like a gradual change of temperature about the emmission. And, I might also suggest that this whorl is being created within the confines of the field Hot to cold you have created. That is, the phenomenon might be indicative of a median field demarcation- a sort of "free" or "buffer" zone between the poles.
Well, I am trying to follow in the footsteps of Tesla as an experimentalist. As in, do the experiment first without any preconceived theories or notions, and only after letting nature show you what really happens, then you try to formulate some theories to interpret it. Tesla was an extraordinarily careful and patient observer, and then he took great care to think "clearly" instead of just "deeply" about his observations.

As far as I know, the white spark observation is original to me. I didn't read about it anywhere, and I have never seen pictures of it. Most Tesla coil hobbyists seem only to be concerned with turning Mr. Tesla's most important invention (the magnifying transmitter) into a science toy and wasting more power producing ever bigger sparks. I noticed it a couple years ago, essentially by accident because I was running that coil with my head only about a foot away from it, something you can't do with a much bigger coil throwing large sparks. Anyone can build a coil like that for almost no money, the secondary is a 3" cardboard mailing tube wound with scavenged wire from a microwave oven transformer secondary. The primary is 3.75 turns around a 5" cardboard oatmeal can. The primary capacitance is 10 nF, I had to buy those but they're cheap (9 needed for an MMC). Then another $20 for a ZVS driver and you're in business.

What the white spark region clearly shows, by logical thinking, is that there are at least two different kinds, or characters, of electricity. If the electricity were the same all along the length of the spark they would flow into each other smoothly with no change. There has to be some kind of difference. Then we have to start speculating and theorizing what that might be, and I have offered a proposed theory that's hopefully more than just speculation, but there's no guarantee that anything about my interpretation is correct, more evidence is needed. The only thing we can say unequivocally is that when we do this experiment, the middle part of the spark turns white for reasons we don't fully understand. But that's always when progress gets made in science, when new things turn up that we didn't know to expect. For something as purportedly well as understood as ELECTRICITY in the 21st century, for gosh sakes, how is it that a home experimenter with virtually no money and simple apparatus built mostly out of scrap can produce visible results that aren't predicted in any textbook?
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:19 PM
tswift tswift is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwane View Post
I have found your observations on the white light intriguing. Very astute observations. I have taken the liberty of expanding the image to a much larger size. To my mind, I am seeing a "whorl" appearing that has more than one white spot - more like a gradual change of temperature about the emmission.
You probably shouldn't read too much into the image. It's a very poor quality picture, with low resolution and a lot of noise, taken by a very cheap camera in video mode. For comparison, here are the other frames I saved from the video which also show some of the white spark effect. Work whatever image processing magic you desire and then maybe we'll come to some new conclusions.

Or even better, build yourself a small tabletop Tesla coil and experiment with it yourself so you can see it first hand.
Attached Images
File Type: png vlcsnap-2017-10-14-22h52m00s927.png (255.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: png vlcsnap-2017-10-14-22h53m24s775.png (267.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: png vlcsnap-2017-10-14-22h53m38s650.png (262.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: png vlcsnap-2017-10-14-22h56m20s107.png (259.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: png vlcsnap-2017-10-14-22h56m49s466.png (246.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: png vlcsnap-2017-10-14-22h57m29s779.png (245.4 KB, 5 views)
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