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  #11851  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:45 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Interesting SkyWatcher, I really hadn't considered using a battery in C2 position. I'm glad you found it interesting, quite often I get tunnel vision focusing on specific goals, it's interesting to see what others would do with a given idea. Have fun !
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  #11852  
Old 09-18-2017, 06:49 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi dragon, after testing both versions for awhile, just as i suspected, the 12 volt battery in position C1 and the capacitors in position C2 and C3 seems to be the most efficient.
I am using a light switch to manually flip between the 1 and 2 switch positions shown in your pdf circuit drawing.
After about half an hour of doing this, the 12 volt tractor battery which started out at 12.62 volts rest voltage, is now resting at 12.61 volts, the next day.
Was able to get the 10 ohm-10 watt resistor to a nice heat level while doing this.
This circuit seems promising to me, just need to think up some kind of automatic switch.
peace love light
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  #11853  
Old 09-18-2017, 08:47 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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I've been struggling with the switching also. I'm using a CD4047 inverter chip to drive a relay adjustable from 1 to 400 hz. The 12 volt system used a basic SPDT 30 amp automotive relay which worked fine for testing - probably not a good choice for prolonged use.

It seems like it would fall nicely into some of your heating work quite well. You can drive multiple bulbs with it, the lower the ohms the better. I've driven some low ohm heating elements ( 12 volt stuff ) quite nicely with it while testing its limits.
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  #11854  
Old 09-18-2017, 09:04 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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This is one I put together yesterday - the "mess of the day"... it has a working voltage of around 160 volts using 3 6800uf 350 volt caps driving 2 500 watt loads in parallel. The loads are a bit mismatched but have around the same resistance, one is a 500 watt grow bulb the other a quartz halogen 500 watt shop light. Both produce massive heat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3oI...ature=youtu.be
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  #11855  
Old 09-19-2017, 02:29 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Switching

I did the same with CD4017 driven by ne555, Its a bit noisy with the relay though and I noticed a little voltage drop so the battery runs down a little bit but not as much as you would run the load directly from the battery,

taking it further
Back_n_Forth.pdf

in this configuration I have more cap to charge individually but will have more volt per discharge back to battery, in theory.. same amount of energy to charge the capacitor is going back to the battery when put in series but since there are voltage drop and losses you will get less.. you can drive loads in between every capacitor.

the reason why I had thought of getting more caps in series would be to lessen the remaining voltage on each cap after discharge so the battery charging it would have more potential difference compared to individual caps. (better output).
a small calc tool is attached.
Charge_Calc.zip

no more shorted caps!
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Last edited by ricards; 09-19-2017 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Fixed attachments
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  #11856  
Old 09-19-2017, 03:16 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi all, Hi dragon, nice work, thanks for sharing.
Are those two coil devices heater coils of some kind?
Hmm, i will have to think of something quieter for switching.
A stepper motor with commutator attached, to switch gate of transistors or a stamp micro-controller, programmed to flip flop.
A stamp controller was given to me some time ago, though i fried it accidentally.
Well, for the moment, i'm making further tests using a simple wall 3 way light switch.
I hooked up a 1 ohm-10 watt resistor this time and it charges and discharges much faster, so more usable power can be pumped.
The resistor gets very hot, very quickly, with 20 flips of the switch, i cannot hold the resistor any longer.
Yes, you must be aware of my many space heater builds and experiments and i was thinking the exact same thing, this could be used to create a nice, efficient heater of some kind.
peace love light
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 09-19-2017 at 03:20 AM.
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  #11857  
Old 09-19-2017, 05:03 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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SkyWatcher, yes they are infrared heating elements. I've followed some of your heater work in the past - quite interesting. The goal with this unit is to drive 3kw of heating elements with the least possible input. With what I have right now I can get them into the IR band but only into the 900*F range so far - I need them to be over 1000*F to interact with copper sheet in order to produce a large BTU output. The quartz tube is reasonably inexpensive and the nichrome wire is cheap which makes it easy to make elements specific to a given build.

Ricards, Very interesting layout. Do you have some thoughts on what loads you want to drive with it? You might be on to something there....

The basic idea is to recycle some of the existing energy while manipulating the energy being released over time using peaks and averages to drive a load that normally exceeds the inputs ability. For instance, discharging a cap through a short wire gives us an explosive release of energy usually ending in a display of arcs and loud noise, a small amount of energy dissipated in a very short time. Discharging a cap charged to 12 volts through a resistance of say 0.1 ohm will develop 120 amps at it's peak or an initial peak equivalent to a 1440 watt burst. It is not overunity by any stretch, not even unity - simply a manipulation of energy disbursement over time. By sizing the capacitance, resistance and voltage to our needs we can control the time and intensity a given amount of energy is released.
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  #11858  
Old 09-19-2017, 08:09 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi dragon, thanks for sharing the information, it all makes good sense to me.

Well I'm not sure about overunity, (though based on your own experiments and from what i am observing now, mine as well) though your results show an almost 600% coefficient of performance, by reusing the energy efficiently.

I manually switched last night for about half an hour again, this time with the 1 ohm-10 watt load and the switching time was just over a second between flips of the switch.
So, even more power was being dissipated or pumped in the load and yet, the 12 volt tractor battery, is flipping between 12.61-12.60 volts today.
I do wonder, if some charging of the 12 volt battery in the C1 position, might be occurring somehow.
peace love light
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Last edited by SkyWatcher; 09-19-2017 at 08:19 PM.
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  #11859  
Old Yesterday, 12:45 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
Ricards, Very interesting layout. Do you have some thoughts on what loads you want to drive with it? You might be on to something there....

The basic idea is to recycle some of the existing energy while manipulating the energy being released over time using peaks and averages to drive a load that normally exceeds the inputs ability. For instance, discharging a cap through a short wire gives us an explosive release of energy usually ending in a display of arcs and loud noise, a small amount of energy dissipated in a very short time. Discharging a cap charged to 12 volts through a resistance of say 0.1 ohm will develop 120 amps at it's peak or an initial peak equivalent to a 1440 watt burst. It is not overunity by any stretch, not even unity - simply a manipulation of energy disbursement over time. By sizing the capacitance, resistance and voltage to our needs we can control the time and intensity a given amount of energy is released.
I plan on making the Outputs an Open Terminal, so I can test what kinds on loads I can run there, that way I can just short them out If I want to test out as if they are hardwired like the schematic. for now I plan on lighting 12v mini incandescent bulb like in my previous experiment (have lots of them). I only try toy caps for now just to test out a prototype and study it carefully.

but the circuit will be like my first.. there will be terminals for capacitors so I can change their size as I wish, I will post picture of the basic C1C2C3 (C1 as Battery) configuration I have been toying later, just to give you an idea.

https://youtu.be/YhTZ6f238xw

as of the moment changing cap values(capacitance) does not affect my load (visual look) my thinking was maybe the Potential difference of the Charging and Discharging was not enough to lit the bulb fully.

for looping it I plan on putting step-up transformers. and send it back to C1 via bridge diode I've tried that but failed, no big caps at the moment (1F upward) to have high current for effective magnetic system.
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Last edited by ricards; Yesterday at 03:37 PM.
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  #11860  
Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Nice work Ricards ! Most of the test runs I did with small caps really didn't show a significant gain, they really don't store a lot of energy. The 1000uf caps at full charge only store .31 Joules. I tested some 3300uf caps in a small set up moving around 3 joules total at around 36 volts. In order to see a reasonable gain, a cap that will store 20 Joule and higher seems to work well.

It looks like you have the switching reasonably covered just need the storage to move the energy around, SkyWatcher has the power and simply needs to overcome the switching challenge. I need to find a better way to drive these IGBT's
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  #11861  
Old Yesterday, 05:12 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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That's why Tesla used kV and Kapanadze said you need at least 230V
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  #11862  
Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
That's why Tesla used kV and Kapanadze said you need at least 230V
Absolutely right... with a .5uf cap charged to 5000 volts you can generate 1100 amps in a 1/0 cable 2ft in diameter with an inductance of 10uh. A 500kw burst of energy. We're talking nano second bursts of course. This is the same concept except we want to slow down the dissipation of energy during the balancing stages and control the amount of energy released in a given time frame... something useful and manageable.
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  #11863  
Old Today, 03:45 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi all, Hi dragon, yes i have the power, at 12 volts, one of these 1.5 farad caps has 108 joules.
I hooked up a couple .82 ohm-5 watt resistors in parallel and am getting some nice heat off of these.
The 12 volt battery is holding it's voltage very well, considering the watts this setup has been using in these tests.
3 days of tests and it sits at 12.59 volts.
I will now focus more on some automatic switching, since it is beyond doubt, we can get some practical power from this idea.
peace love light
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