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  #11101  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:26 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Originally Posted by soundiceuk View Post
Ideally you need a frequency meter.
Yes i have some but in the past i have fried meters (digital) when i play with hv/hf... The reading goes like crazy and they just became useless caure they are no longer acurate.

Maybe by having long wire on the low voltage side to get away from the device wile taking mesurement...
I just wonder if you guys have better way to do it cause im not familliar with it.
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  #11102  
Old 01-06-2017, 03:23 PM
tswift tswift is offline
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Tuning frequency of the resonant circuit can be done approximately by measuring the capacitance of the capacitor and the inductance of the coil separately with an LC or LCR meter. This won't take into account factors like the parasitic capacitance of the coil so the computed frequency will generally be high compared to an actual measurement. You can measure the actual resonant frequency at low voltage by using a function generator to drive the cap and coil in parallel (through a resistor of 1K-10K), while watching the voltage across the LC tank circuit combo on an oscilloscope. There will be a very noticeable voltage peak at the parallel resonant frequency, but to do this you have to have a scope and a function generator. Even then, I have found that the actual resonant frequency in-circuit while being driven with the spark gap is not always quite identical but it's quite close.

So if you want the $20 solution, you can get a cheap LC meter from ebay. They work OK and will get you in the ballpark. The better answer involves better test equipment and more money. I have been impressed with this Hantek DSO I have, they are reasonably priced and so far it's been quite resilient to damage even working around HV/HF. For regular multimeters I have now gone analog, frying digital meters gets old.
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  #11103  
Old 01-06-2017, 03:39 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Thank you tswift for your reply.
I already have this lc meter: NEW UNI T Modern Inductance Capacitance Meter UT 603 | eBay

And this cheap scope:Hantek 6022BE PC Based USB Digital Storag Oscilloscope 48MSA S 20MHz 2 Channels | eBay

I will try as you say...

Hope to not fry the scope...
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  #11104  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:28 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Finally I found a 8" pipe!!!
I may start wind the coil soon
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  #11105  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:25 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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ZVS flyback driver

Here is the ZVS flyback driver I will use for the hv side.
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File Type: jpg ZVS.JPG (77.2 KB, 13 views)
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  #11106  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wistiti View Post
Here is the ZVS flyback driver I will use for the hv side.

That is fine but the PVM12 is self tuning.

Mwtj still got his to work with something similar to your flyback driver.

Mwtj has apparently built his own PVM12 now.

There should be some new results published this week. I've been waiting very patiently!
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  #11107  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by serendipitor View Post
One thing I would like to see is the waveform across D5. What are people using at this point? I am not familiar with fast recovery diodes at this voltage level, but would be able to try a string of lower voltage units which are on hand. Certainly the current demands are tiny, given the 10Meg resistor in series.


Was just reading back through the pages since and spotted this.

I must have missed it before.

Seems like you are having similar problems to tswift.

What diodes did you try?

You need a 20kv, 100ma, 100ns diode.
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Last edited by soundiceuk; 01-09-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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  #11108  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Wistiti View Post
Finally I found a 8" pipe!!!
I may start wind the coil soon

Where did you find it?
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  #11109  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by serendipitor View Post
My antenna measurements turned out quite similar to tswift. Using the latest circuit, 5.4.7, it is clear that the spark gap requires voltage peaks coming from the antenna in order to fire. This is quite different from the previous version, 5.4.6, which would energize the spark gap through the circuitry itself.

With the voltage across C1 at 10kV, spark gap spaced as minimally as I could (paper thickness) I am only seeing a discharge about once per second. I suspect that in a climate such as Tesla's Colorado Springs: very dry, high altitude, and electrically active, one would see more rapid sparking than this. In my low altitude, humid situation, with the antenna running under many large fir trees, there is not enough static around to make sufficient pulse rates, despite my trials of tuning to different frequencies. I believe my ground situation is adequate, with 2 1.2m copper coated ground rods, one in a small stream bed, the other in a wet area of standing water.

I await other reports and suggestions. I will consider the previous circuit for tests as well. Also, I will look at the antenna's output signal by itself, but with varying amounts of DC voltage on it, after properly decoupling the scope input, of course.
You need to change what you are using for D5.

I can't quite work out what is going on with those diodes and resistors in the picture.

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  #11110  
Old 01-09-2017, 01:56 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Where did you find it?
At the city construction department.
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  #11111  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mwtj View Post
Unfortunaly i am only about a 300 feet above sea level. A little less than i thought
Just went through my emails and messages.

Tswift = 1000 feet above sea level

Wistiti = 883 feet above sea level

Mwtj = 300 feet above sea level

Serendipitor = 295 feet above sea level
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  #11112  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by soundiceuk View Post
That is fine but the PVM12 is self tuning.

Mwtj still got his to work with something similar to your flyback driver.

Mwtj has apparently built his own PVM12 now.

There should be some new results published this week. I've been waiting very patiently!
Driver i used is based on 4046/4049 chips. Changed resistors (potentiometer) and capacitors for tuning.

Red led will light up when in resonance. at the moment with this flyback 75khz (max 35kvdc) input 19v AC half-wave rectified to DC. PVM pcb will be made today.

Different types of flybacks.
(1) from color TV 8kVpp
(2) and (3) from b&w TV 15-20kVpp
(4) diode split transformer 25kV DC
(5) flyback with integrated cascade 25kV DC
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File Type: jpg flybacks.jpg (11.6 KB, 25 views)
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  #11113  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:38 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Originally Posted by Mwtj View Post
Driver i used is based on 4046/4049 chips. Changed resistors (potentiometer) and capacitors for tuning.

Red led will light up when in resonance. at the moment with this flyback 75khz (max 35kvdc) input 19v AC half-wave rectified to DC. PVM pcb will be made today.

Different types of flybacks.
(1) from color TV 8kVpp
(2) and (3) from b&w TV 15-20kVpp
(4) diode split transformer 25kV DC
(5) flyback with integrated cascade 25kV DC

Thank you Mwjt for this informationon the flyback!

One thing I just do not understand is why is important to have an adjustment on the hv source... It is not more easy to have a fixed hvdc source and play with the gap of the ppv for tuning the frequency??
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  #11114  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:49 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Im curious...
What is the best price/ft or /meter you guys can find for 40kvdc wire? Let say 22awg like in the last pdf.
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  #11115  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:39 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Im curious...
What is the best price/ft or /meter you guys can find for 40kvdc wire? Let say 22awg like in the last pdf.
I think I have found a really great bargin for the hv wire....
Will let you know soon...
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  #11116  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:30 PM
tswift tswift is offline
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Another option for large tubes in 8" and 10" sizes is cardboard construction tubes. These are used as concrete forms for pouring posts and are sold in hardware and home improvement type stores. Note that the sizes are NOMINAL sizes, they ship a slightly-smaller-than-8", a true 8", and a slightly-larger-than-8" all telescoped together. Take a measuring tape when you grab one out of the bin so you get the size you're expecting. Cost: about $5 for a 4-foot tube.

Unfortunately this is a somewhat inferior option to PVC. The PVC is stronger and more rigid and won't deteriorate or absorb moisture like the cardboard can. But will it work? Yes, I have my little tabletop slayer exciter/Tesla coil wrapped around a cardboard mailing tube and it works fine.
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  #11117  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tswift View Post
Another option for large tubes in 8" and 10" sizes is cardboard construction tubes. These are used as concrete forms for pouring posts and are sold in hardware and home improvement type stores. Note that the sizes are NOMINAL sizes, they ship a slightly-smaller-than-8", a true 8", and a slightly-larger-than-8" all telescoped together. Take a measuring tape when you grab one out of the bin so you get the size you're expecting. Cost: about $5 for a 4-foot tube.

Unfortunately this is a somewhat inferior option to PVC. The PVC is stronger and more rigid and won't deteriorate or absorb moisture like the cardboard can. But will it work? Yes, I have my little tabletop slayer exciter/Tesla coil wrapped around a cardboard mailing tube and it works fine.

You could always get some vehicle spray paint and lacquer. Then you could have any colour you wanted. It would be water proof too!
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  #11118  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mwtj View Post
Driver i used is based on 4046/4049 chips. Changed resistors (potentiometer) and capacitors for tuning.

Red led will light up when in resonance. at the moment with this flyback 75khz (max 35kvdc) input 19v AC half-wave rectified to DC. PVM pcb will be made today.

Different types of flybacks.
(1) from color TV 8kVpp
(2) and (3) from b&w TV 15-20kVpp
(4) diode split transformer 25kV DC
(5) flyback with integrated cascade 25kV DC

Which flyback are you going to use with home made PVM12 ?
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  #11119  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by med.3012 View Post

another technical request



How much level can the earth ground quality effect an over energy device ? i am doing some experiment where the earth play a critical role , standing waves can be seeing very easily either with a small light bulb or using a scope probes ..

all the test are based on the ETBC but with a ferrite rod inside, the capacitors banks can be charged only when there's an earth ground, now the question arise to how much level will affect the system ?


thanks in advance !
The earth ground is definitely important. Hence why Tesla used a 300ft deep earth over an aquifer for Wardenclyffe.

Yes, this is very exotic and unachievable by 99.9999999% of people.

You just have to do your best, based on your funds.

An 8ft deep dedicated ground rod is most probably going to be a basic necessity.
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Last edited by soundiceuk; 01-10-2017 at 09:15 PM.
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  #11120  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:40 PM
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Kilovolt meter

One of the challenges I have had troubleshooting is the lack of any good way to measure high voltages. I made myself a kilovolt meter from a high value resistor and an ammeter. By Ohm's law, current equals voltage divided by resistance. Since we want to put the minimum possible load on the circuit, we want the highest value resistance obtainable and the most sensitive ammeter. I found a 0-100 microamp analog meter (scale reads 0-10 but meter reads 0-100 uA) from ebay, and I obtained two 20KV rated resistors to go with it, a 100M and a 1000M. Doing the arithmetic, connecting the meter to an HV source through the 100M resistor will give 100 uA of current (full scale) at 10KV voltage. If I use the 1G resistor the range is 100KV full scale, with the caveat that the resistor is only rated for 20KV and might have problems at voltages much higher than that.

I have attached a picture of this arrangement being used to read the voltage across C1 with the PVM12 running. Using the UX-FOB diode I only obtain a little over 2KV (this is with the 100M resistor. I also tried the HVM12 low-speed diodes and my new 30KV high-speed diodes and to my surprise it made no difference! I changed out the C1 capacitor for a new one with the same specs (this one came from ebay), likewise no difference. So I am left with the conclusion that my PVM12 is probably bad. It turns on and runs but it should be charging much more than this. Thankfully, as a backup I have obtained one of the ZVS/flyback combos previously mentioned in this thread. This is considerably more powerful than the PVM12, but just charging a cap shouldn't require any real output power. Sure enough, using the ZVS to energize the circuit and using the flyback internal diode like Mwtj did, I measure around 12KV on the cap (using the 1G resistor) and the whole circuit is crackling with static! Numerous surfaces are charged to HV potential, such as the whole L1 coil. It is becoming obvious why it really is a better idea to use HV-rated insulated wire for this circuit, it's only going to get worse at higher voltages.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1615_small.JPG (154.1 KB, 3 views)
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  #11121  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:44 PM
tswift tswift is offline
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For those who are browsing but aren't members of the forum, here are the same images hosted on an external server:















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  #11122  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:38 PM
Mwtj Mwtj is offline
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Take your pick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundiceuk View Post
Which flyback are you going to use with home made PVM12 ?
I did try the whole box today. Got some flybacks that only put out AC.

Will be using the gray flyback with 360kv multiplier.
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File Type: jpg IMG_0509.jpg (211.8 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0510.jpg (145.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0511.jpg (112.5 KB, 7 views)
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  #11123  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:49 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Will be using the gray flyback with 360kv multiplier.
360kvdc!!! Will you have to change your 30kvdc wire on L1??
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  #11124  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mwtj View Post
I did try the whole box today. Got some flybacks that only put out AC.

Will be using the gray flyback with 360kv multiplier.





That's a big box! Are they all yours?

What made you pick that one?

360KV multipler!

What are your antenna ceramic insulators rated to?

Are you going to do this with existing circuit or have you built the mirror circuit?

Was just thinking how your tuning cap would cope with 360KV.

Have you had that multiplier running yet?
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  #11125  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:56 PM
Mwtj Mwtj is offline
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Originally Posted by Wistiti View Post
360kvdc!!! Will you have to change your 30kvdc wire on L1??
Well we have see how that works out. Do not know how everything will react in this circuit. But soon we will see.
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  #11126  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Wistiti View Post
360kvdc!!! Will you have to change your 30kvdc wire on L1??
Calculate the voltage between turns.

Mwtj did you get 40KV or 30KV wire?
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  #11127  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:01 PM
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Wire is 30kv. Multiplier did work that i build with the flyback. Voltage is adjustable.

I need too wait on the 360kv multiplier and the caps that go with it. Could take weeks.

For the moment the single circuit will be used.
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  #11128  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:25 PM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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I think I have found a really great bargin for the hv wire....
Will let you know soon...
Here is the best deal i have found on 40kvdc wire...
The price is $/METER!!!
https://addison-electronique.com/fil...t-voltage.html

So if you buy 300meters and more it is 0,17$/meter
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  #11129  
Old 01-11-2017, 02:30 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tswift View Post
Another option for large tubes in 8" and 10" sizes is cardboard construction tubes. These are used as concrete forms for pouring posts and are sold in hardware and home improvement type stores. Note that the sizes are NOMINAL sizes, they ship a slightly-smaller-than-8", a true 8", and a slightly-larger-than-8" all telescoped together. Take a measuring tape when you grab one out of the bin so you get the size you're expecting. Cost: about $5 for a 4-foot tube.

Unfortunately this is a somewhat inferior option to PVC. The PVC is stronger and more rigid and won't deteriorate or absorb moisture like the cardboard can. But will it work? Yes, I have my little tabletop slayer exciter/Tesla coil wrapped around a cardboard mailing tube and it works fine.
Good low cost idea!!!
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  #11130  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:56 AM
Wistiti Wistiti is online now
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Steel and aluminum bolts for the PPV .
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