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#8791
02-24-2013, 11:43 AM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
Now this works and it works very well.
It charges the battery very fast.

Even if the battery is a total short it does not disturb the resonance.

I call it the Quadraverter
Attached Images
 Quadraverter.jpg (41.5 KB, 144 views)
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#8792
02-24-2013, 12:51 PM
 aaron5120 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 105
Quote:
 Originally Posted by janost Now this works and it works very well. It charges the battery very fast. Even if the battery is a total short it does not disturb the resonance. I call it the Quadraverter
Hi Janost,
you always come with something elegant and incredibly simple. This time it is no exception. The circuit seems deceptively simple.
I guess the input frequency is 50 Hz, as the ignition coil (1:85) is designed to work at a maximum of 5KHz. The bridge rectifier is a conventional one, not necessarily an ultrafast one.
I wonder if you checked the phase shift of the output of the secondary to see whether it is at 1.0 ? On the contrary, the power calculated should take into account of the phase angle.
The only loss in this circuit would be the heat loss within the coil and the bridge rectifier.
Are you claiming any OU effect for this circuit? If so, a scope shot of the output would be interesting though.
aaron5120
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#8793
02-24-2013, 01:12 PM
 stupify12 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 86
No true connectivity!

The circuit diagram i posted before, is a experiment for proving that short circuiting the output coils will not interfer the resonating coil electromagnetic induction..

Don smith was never wrong, also zelano zane was correct on all her post, what people blinded them are the quantum physics calculation. Did the true master (Tesla) showed his findings by using mathematical calculations?

Another clue from a newbie, 3 phase coil all same ground( earth ground) power transfer is not thru electromagnetic induction- it was thru spark gap, isolating the resonating power drive coil to the secondary transformer ( radient transformer) # cw + ccw- mid ground(earth)= Voila.
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#8794
02-24-2013, 03:21 PM
 Dave45 Platinum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,503
Another example by Ramero at 50hz
I wonder what this would do at higher frequency's, maybe a zvs instead of the grid tie, let it run at resonance.

Romero Experiments
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#8795
02-24-2013, 05:06 PM
 Gedfire Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 472
Nice

Hi Janost,

Ged

Quote:
 Originally Posted by janost Now this works and it works very well. It charges the battery very fast. Even if the battery is a total short it does not disturb the resonance. I call it the Quadraverter
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#8796
02-24-2013, 05:27 PM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
Quote:
 Originally Posted by aaron5120 Hi Janost, you always come with something elegant and incredibly simple. This time it is no exception. The circuit seems deceptively simple. I guess the input frequency is 50 Hz, as the ignition coil (1:85) is designed to work at a maximum of 5KHz. The bridge rectifier is a conventional one, not necessarily an ultrafast one. I wonder if you checked the phase shift of the output of the secondary to see whether it is at 1.0 ? On the contrary, the power calculated should take into account of the phase angle. The only loss in this circuit would be the heat loss within the coil and the bridge rectifier. Are you claiming any OU effect for this circuit? If so, a scope shot of the output would be interesting though. aaron5120
Yes, I'll scope it and show pictures but I already know from previous measurements with a 150ohm resistor in series that there is 33mA in the secondary at resonance.
There was a 5v drop over the 150ohm resistor.
The LC combo have a Q=2.

I'm not claiming anything yet but I do know that you can short the output and the input current is still 1.38A
Dont leave the output open or unloaded, that kills the resonance.

Yes 50Hz.
To use it at 60Hz change the cap to 105nF.

The phaseshift between the primary and secondary is 32deg.

It actually puts the battery into the resonant circuit so the sloshing currents have to pass the battery.
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Last edited by janost; 02-24-2013 at 06:39 PM.
#8797
02-24-2013, 06:54 PM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
It can be done this way also.

The 360ohm resistor limits the charging of the cap to 12v.
Attached Images
 Quadraverter2.jpg (38.5 KB, 89 views)
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#8798
02-24-2013, 07:45 PM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
This is what LTspice says with a 360ohm resistor.
The green line is input power and the blue line is output power.
Attached Images
 LTspice.jpg (27.0 KB, 64 views)
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#8799
02-24-2013, 11:43 PM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gedfire ... I think this device could be related to Don's /Cleans Device? ...
Hi Ged. It's funny you should say that. The guy who came up with the 'free energy surprise' device, William Lyne, has stated that Don Smith's vending machine device was based on William Lyne's 'free energy surprise' device, and that Don had contacted William Lyne years ago, and William Lyne had suggested to Don to try wrapping a coil around the device to try to draw power off it.

Don Smith apparently demonstrated the device for use in powering vending machines (pop machines) to some rich Japanese business men in hopes of signing a multi-million dollar contract, but according to William Lyne, the business men saw some of William Lyne's books laying around with various passages highlighted, and the business men then declined the deal with Don and later contacted William Lyne instead to arrange to get copies of his books.

Did Don Smith not say in one or two videos on him that he sold his device for powering vending machines to the Japanese? If so, this is at complete odds with William Lyne's version of the story.

This is William Lyne's version of how it happened:
--- --- ---
"The only person I know of who has obtained useful energy from this
device was a man (now deceased) named Don Smith who added a resonant
inductor tuned to 60 cps to the device and ran a Coke machine with it, using
only battery power through an inverter to 120 volts A.C.. Don had called me
earlier for a discussion and I suggested adding the inductor and he did it.
He and his group (retired CIA investors) tried to interest a Japanese group
in the device and they came for a demonstration years ago. They were
expecting a multi-million dollar contract. But they had copies of my books
laying around the workshop so the Japanese group discreetly obtained my
phone number and address from those. One book had over 60 references marked.
The Japanese group returned to Japan and sent a check to Don for
\$5,000 just for the demonstration, but did not sign the big contract which
Don's group expected. Then the head of the Japanese group called me and
ordered a copy of FES, paying handsomely. Don then said the group was "the
Yakuza", a comment which I think was just sour grapes.
I built one with an inductor but never completed any tests for lack
of time or energy to devote to the project. I don't have the radio expertise
or equipment which Don had. My main thrust is with the Lyne Atomic Hydrogen
Furnace.
Bill Lyne"
--- --- ---

By the way, I went through many of the forum posts in the free energy surprise forum, and although one guy tried real hard to draw power off the device using various different coil winding and other arrangements, he was never able to get any significant power off of the device other than very low power, and that guy seems to have eventually given up trying. It seems no one else ever even reported seeing the high current running through the cylinders that William Lyne reported, although that is an essential requirement for having the device work. As William Lyne stated above, only Don Smith was supposed to have ever got any useful energy out of the free energy surprise device.
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level

Last edited by level; 02-25-2013 at 12:51 AM.
#8800
02-25-2013, 12:40 AM
 hotrod68r Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 96

hi janost.nice work again.looks like the output frequency is 100 hz.is there a way to get the output to phase match the input at 100 hz.playing with the 32 degree aspect might improve output.sorry if your already on to it.keep up the good work.
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Last edited by hotrod68r; 02-25-2013 at 01:22 AM.
#8801
02-25-2013, 02:30 AM
 Gedfire Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 472
Interesting Stuff Level

Quote:
 Originally Posted by level Hi Ged. It's funny you should say that. Did Don Smith not say in one or two videos on him that he sold his device for powering vending machines to the Japanese? If so, this is at complete odds with William Lyne's version of the story. This is William Lyne's version of how it happened: --- --- --- "The only person I know of who has obtained useful energy from this device was a man (now deceased) named Don Smith who added a resonant inductor tuned to 60 cps to the device and ran a Coke machine with it, using only battery power through an inverter to 120 volts A.C.. Don had called me earlier for a discussion and I suggested adding the inductor and he did it. He and his group (retired CIA investors) tried to interest a Japanese group in the device and they came for a demonstration years ago. They were expecting a multi-million dollar contract. But they had copies of my books laying around the workshop so the Japanese group discreetly obtained my phone number and address from those. One book had over 60 references marked. Bill Lyne" --- --- --- By the way, I went through many of the forum posts in the free energy surprise forum, and although one guy tried real hard to draw power off the device using various different coil winding and other arrangements, he was never able to get any significant power off of the device other than very low power, and that guy seems to have eventually given up trying. It seems no one else ever even reported seeing the high current running through the cylinders that William Lyne reported, although that is an essential requirement for having the device work. As William Lyne stated above, only Don Smith was supposed to have ever got any useful energy out of the free energy surprise device.
Thanks for the info,thought I saw it before somewhere ,now you mention it.

Things to ponder though.

Do you follow Naudin's research? What a guy! Saw his take his experiments with Solid State Generator.

This scope shot coincides with numerous other theories and experiments by others.What do you think?

2SGen, an amazing tiny Solid State Generator by JL Naudin

Next up is an amazing article by Sidney Perkowitz emeritus (ahem..) professor of physics at Emory University in Atlanta,Georgia

Writing In "New Scientist" Weekly 17 December 2011, page 37 They Do It With Mirrors: Photons can be CONJURED from thin air.

Download the pdf copy from scribd.com .One of the most stunning contributions in a respected science magazine yet (IMHO).Mentions Casimir's theory and used the term zero point.I think its worth reading.I actually own a hard copy.Good stuff.

Best regards,

Ged
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#8802
02-25-2013, 03:50 AM
 Ein~+ein Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 298
Quote:
 Originally Posted by level Don Smith apparently demonstrated the device for use in powering vending machines (pop machines) to some rich Japanese business men
One would think Japan would be Free Energy Central given its:
a) heavy dependence on imported energy;
b) stagnant economy and an aging demographic;
c) distrust of nuclear power/electric utilities following last yrs tsunami;
d) escalating tensions with China over island claims due to the recent discovery of undersea oil reserves.

Since I'm in Asia, let me ask those from Japan whether Coke machines there are still plugged in.

Quote:
 Don Smith was talking about being able to deliver very high power output levels (kilowatts and megawatts) to loads.
Who doesn't? The list of such claims gets longer every day and the evidence, still non-existent.

Regardless of intent, once a claim attracts funding for development, it would be out of character for an inventor to admit an error in measurement and announce the endeavor a worthless pursuit. In order to sustain development (indefinitely), its essential to increase both the hype and the capital inflow as they tend to substantiate each other in a house-of-cards kind of way.

It seems that without the requisite knowledge, experience of how to properly test, document, and report findings* along with an intuitive grasp of the electromagnetism from both an electrical engineering and a physics perspective, you'll only end up discovering the known laws of electromagnetism... or your own errors of measurement.

* If there's free energy to be had then wouldn't a collaborative effort to dbase device configurations tested and results obtained be to everyone's benefit?
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#8803
02-25-2013, 06:29 AM
 boguslaw Gold Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449
I like those fairy tales....
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#8804
02-25-2013, 12:28 PM
 hotrod68r Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 96
hi janost again.here's a hybrid circuit based on your concepts i'm playing with.
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Last edited by hotrod68r; 07-06-2013 at 05:48 PM.
#8805
02-25-2013, 01:14 PM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
Quote:
 Originally Posted by hotrod68r hi janost again.here's a hybrid circuit based on your concepts i'm playing with.
I dont see in your schematic any way for the coil on the collector to get a positive feed from the battery?
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#8806
02-25-2013, 01:39 PM
 hotrod68r Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 96
hi janost.it runs the same way your mosfet jt ran.return is down a bit due to double diode loss at this stage.
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#8807
02-25-2013, 01:42 PM
 Dave45 Platinum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,503
I thought the same, but if you look a little deeper , through the bridge.
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Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question
#8808
02-25-2013, 01:57 PM
 hotrod68r Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 96
yeah the big cap is positive on that end and is across the battery.both contribute.
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#8809
02-25-2013, 02:24 PM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dave45 I thought the same, but if you look a little deeper , through the bridge.
A positive voltage will not flow backwards through the bridge.
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#8810
02-25-2013, 03:40 PM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Don Smith

Any chance we can keep the discussions in this thread related to Don Smith devices?
__________________
level
#8811
02-25-2013, 03:49 PM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ein~+ein The list of such claims gets longer every day and the evidence, still non-existent.
Well, I wouldn't say that evidence is non-existent, just not proven. Research continues. By the way, I make no assumptions one way or the other in regards to Don Smith's or other's claims. What I am doing is putting some of Don Smith's devices to the test and trying to determine for myself if there seems to be anything to Don Smith's claims. It is an uphill battle, since Don Smith always made it clear that he purposely left information out about his devices in his presentations. So far, nothing significant to report.
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level
#8812
02-25-2013, 04:07 PM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Question for Mr. Clean

Hi mr. clean. Regarding the 60 Hz NST which you have been using to test your Don Smith setups with, do you think you would be able to measure the resistance from each high voltage terminal to the ground lug on your 60 Hz NST when everything else is disconnected from those terminals? I have been testing with a 6000V, 30mA rated 60 Hz NST, and I am wondering how my NST compares to yours? My 60 Hz NST measures approx. 6.5 kilo ohms on one terminal and 6.6 kilo ohms on the other high voltage terminal with respect to the ground lug.
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level

Last edited by level; 02-25-2013 at 04:23 PM.
#8813
02-25-2013, 08:27 PM
 janost Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 418
Quote:
 Originally Posted by level Any chance we can keep the discussions in this thread related to Don Smith devices?
Are you saying that my ignitioncoil doesnt fit this thread?
or a JT circuit even though it has 500v on it's secondary?

If so I'll start a new thread.
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#8814
02-25-2013, 09:39 PM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Quote:
 Originally Posted by janost Are you saying that my ignitioncoil doesnt fit this thread? or a JT circuit even though it has 500v on it's secondary? If so I'll start a new thread.
Hey, its not up to me, but yeah, neither of those two circuits are really related to Don Smith's devices. I know we all get off topic now and then, but just wanted to try to keep it a little more focused on Don Smith's stuff. On second thought though, that might actually kill this thread because very few people out there actually seem to be interested in discussing and experimenting with Don's devices lately. Maybe most people have completely given up by now. Feel free to post as you want. In the least it helps keep this thread going.
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level

Last edited by level; 02-26-2013 at 01:55 AM.
#8815
02-25-2013, 09:42 PM
 Gedfire Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 472
Ein

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ein~+ein One would think Japan would be Free Energy Central given its: a) heavy dependence on imported energy; b) stagnant economy and an aging demographic; c) distrust of nuclear power/electric utilities following last yrs tsunami; d) escalating tensions with China over island claims due to the recent discovery of undersea oil reserves. Since I'm in Asia, let me ask those from Japan whether Coke machines there are still plugged in. Who doesn't? The list of such claims gets longer every day and the evidence, still non-existent. Regardless of intent, once a claim attracts funding for development, it would be out of character for an inventor to admit an error in measurement and announce the endeavor a worthless pursuit. In order to sustain development (indefinitely), its essential to increase both the hype and the capital inflow as they tend to substantiate each other in a house-of-cards kind of way. It seems that without the requisite knowledge, experience of how to properly test, document, and report findings* along with an intuitive grasp of the electromagnetism from both an electrical engineering and a physics perspective, you'll only end up discovering the known laws of electromagnetism... or your own errors of measurement. * If there's free energy to be had then wouldn't a collaborative effort to dbase device configurations tested and results obtained be to everyone's benefit?
Based on your post, I am assuming that you are interested in proper scientific testing of claims and rightly so..Could you possibly recommend steps that must be taken by an experimenter before he claims "overunity". In the event that someone builds a device and claims overunity, would you participate in verify whether the claim is valid or not? What methods would you use for example to deal with say, Don's coke machine device. From your Engineering perspective, is the schematic properly done, are the components correct.Would it work ,even if it produces underunity effects?

If you can locate the pictures of said coke machine and knew nothing about Don,Tesla and anything related to free energy what conclusions would you draw from just from a forensic examination of the device.

Have you seen the pictures of the commercial device? How do you view it.Now I have no proof that these things work.I am just among the experimenters who might have a little time and resource to ...well experiment.

Have you tried making any of these devices? Tested them?

What do you think of Naudin's work, present day theories on dark matter, zero point energy?

Ged
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#8816
02-25-2013, 10:06 PM
 Gedfire Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 472
Beyond Don Smith

Quote:
 Originally Posted by level Hey, its not up to me, but yeah, neither of those two circuits are really related to Don Smith's devices. I know we all get off topic now and then, but just wanted to try to keep it a little more focused on Don Smith's stuff. On second thought though, that might actually kill this thread because very few people out there actually seem to be interested in discussing and experimenting with Don's devices lately. Maybe most people have completely given up by now. Feel free to post as you want then. In the least it keeps this thread going.
Hey Level,

I think some people may have given up because of time and money or simply lack of resources.Some may have gone down a dead end too and become disillusioned.For me,I am encouraged by information that exist outside of the work of Donald Smith.Information which has enable me to pick the sense from the nonsense or misleading or erroneous statements.Its this constant cross-referencing and reflective thinking coupled with my own experimentation that keeps me going.Finally, I might be able to put together my fourth prototype, combining the work, knowledge experience of this entire forum, Advanced Physics as taught in Modern Society and the emerging theories and findings proposed from the branches of science by people who have nothing to do with free energy.

My only constraint is time.As I have a demanding job and is a family man.

But rest assured that as soon build that 4th prototype , whether it works or not, I will present to all.

Regards,

Ged
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#8817
02-26-2013, 12:14 AM
 hotrod68r Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 96

hi guys.being a newbie and not having read the whole thread i don't know if the electrical phenomenon discussed in the wikipedia article-parametric oscillator is familiar ground for you and apologies if it is.i don't get all the math but if you read all the text i think you can gain some worthwhile knowledge and possibly some insight into the missing info that this thread was and is about.if after you have located and read it,you feel that i have wasted 5 minutes of your life feel free to bill me for the inconvenience.and so for the third time,guys i think you should check this out if you haven't already.do i have to beg?
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#8818
02-26-2013, 02:05 AM
 citfta Gold Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,297
You owe me \$5

Hi hotrod,

I didn't have time to find the complete article you referred to but I did read the excerpt you posted a link to. That description of a kid on a swing is nothing but a description of positive feedback. Positive feedback has been used since the early 1910s. I don't think that is the same as parametric excitation. But like I said I didn't take the time to read the whole article. You have to be careful what you read on a wiki. Anyone can post anything but it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. Just kidding about the \$5.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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#8819
02-26-2013, 02:13 AM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Quote:
 Originally Posted by hotrod68r hi guys.being a newbie and not having read the whole thread i don't know if the electrical phenomenon discussed in the wikipedia article-parametric oscillator is familiar ground for you and apologies if it is.i don't get all the math but if you read all the text i think you can gain some worthwhile knowledge and possibly some insight into the missing info that this thread was and is about.if after you have located and read it,you feel that i have wasted 5 minutes of your life feel free to bill me for the inconvenience.and so for the third time,guys i think you should check this out if you haven't already.do i have to beg?
Hi hotrod68r. Yeah that parametric oscillator/amplifier is really interesting. It might possibly have some relevance to Don Smith type circuits, but may not really apply. At least for the devices that Don Smith described and showed in his presentations, they all appeared to be fairly simple with one input signal source, but you never know if the concept wouldn't be applicable in some way, or if Don Smith made used of a similar sort of approach in some of his other devices. It is possible that the Kapanadze device, which seems somewhat similar to some of Smith's devices in a number of ways, may be using a principle like this or something related. The one problem I see however is you need to vary a parameter like capacitance using something like a varicap diode, and I don't think varicap diodes could be used at the power levels required for electric generator applications, but I could be wrong. There may be suitable high power diodes that can provide a decent varicap effect. Typically varicap diodes are used at small signal levels, I believe. There may be other ways as well to achieve that sort of effect though at higher power levels.
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level
#8820
02-26-2013, 02:29 AM
 level Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 412
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gedfire But rest assured that as soon build that 4th prototype , whether it works or not, I will present to all.
Sounds interesting Ged. Yeah, it can be hard to find time to do experiments with job and everything else.
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level

Last edited by level; 02-26-2013 at 02:30 PM.

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