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  #6841  
Old 07-22-2012, 06:55 PM
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larryross larryross is offline
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Janost
I'll give a quarter for the description on how this thing works... makes no sense to me.

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
Try this one.
It is a selfrunner but only when there is a real grounding rod attached.

And Im not even asking a penny for it

Attachment 11799
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  #6842  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:22 PM
janost janost is offline
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Originally Posted by larryross View Post
Janost
I'll give a quarter for the description on how this thing works... makes no sense to me.

Larry
It is a stepup-stepdown converter.

The first transformer generates about 800volt pulses into an Avramenko plug. It charges the 630nF cap using a single wire.

When the gas discharge tube breakdown voltage, 200volt, is reached the cap discharges into stepdown transformer primary and transforms the voltage down and the current up on the secondary.

The GDT rate is about 20Hz.

The secondary is rectified and charges the 3,6v Li-Ion cell that feeds the supply voltage for the HV-blocking oscillator.

It works without a grounding-rod but the battery eventually runs out.
When it is grounded the glow from the GDT is stronger and the secondary of the stepdown generates a higher voltage with more current.

The second AV-plug with the 5,6uF cap is a way to tap the circuit and use a load without disturbing the selffeeding loop.
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  #6843  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:42 PM
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Thanks janost
Interesting... I guess I haven't looked at enough of the self feeding circuits to keep from getting lost. I assume that the ground rod is the dipole which works better than just the open ended coil... has anyone tried an antenna instead of the ground? Why the 800 volts just to drive a 200V spark gap? The other thing that through me off is the SCR on a DC circuit.
Is there a prototype or proof of concept or replications going on anywhere? What is the potential power output? Asking a lot of questions for a measly a quarter.

Larry

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Originally Posted by janost View Post
It is a stepup-stepdown converter.

The first transformer generates about 800volt pulses into an Avramenko plug. It charges the 630nF cap using a single wire.

When the gas discharge tube breakdown voltage, 200volt, is reached the cap discharges into stepdown transformer primary and transforms the voltage down and the current up on the secondary.

The GDT rate is about 20Hz.

The secondary is rectified and charges the 3,6v Li-Ion cell that feeds the supply voltage for the HV-blocking oscillator.

It works without a grounding-rod but the battery eventually runs out.
When it is grounded the glow from the GDT is stronger and the secondary of the stepdown generates a higher voltage with more current.

The second AV-plug with the 5,6uF cap is a way to tap the circuit and use a load without disturbing the selffeeding loop.
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  #6844  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
It is a stepup-stepdown converter.

The first transformer generates about 800volt pulses into an Avramenko plug. It charges the 630nF cap using a single wire.

When the gas discharge tube breakdown voltage, 200volt, is reached the cap discharges into stepdown transformer primary and transforms the voltage down and the current up on the secondary.

The GDT rate is about 20Hz.

The secondary is rectified and charges the 3,6v Li-Ion cell that feeds the supply voltage for the HV-blocking oscillator.

It works without a grounding-rod but the battery eventually runs out.
When it is grounded the glow from the GDT is stronger and the secondary of the stepdown generates a higher voltage with more current.

The second AV-plug with the 5,6uF cap is a way to tap the circuit and use a load without disturbing the selffeeding loop.
hello Janost-& all

I presuppose the 5k variable resistor controls the pump rate through the SCR and allows for a variable frequency to any load such as say a smith L1 primary coil? thanks and liked the info- mike,onward!
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  #6845  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:17 PM
janost janost is offline
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The caps in the AV-plugs won't charge with a lower voltage.

Yes, the 5K pot sets the pump rate through the load.
The SCR fires when the gate voltage exceed 3volt and discharges the cap through the load.
It's like a low voltage sparkgap.

The secondary delivers 13volt and 400mA shorted.
The blocking-oscillator draws about 70mA.

It is selfrunning but only if it's grounded and I can't explain why.
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  #6846  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
It is a stepup-stepdown converter.

The first transformer generates about 800volt pulses into an Avramenko plug. It charges the 630nF cap using a single wire.

When the gas discharge tube breakdown voltage, 200volt, is reached the cap discharges into stepdown transformer primary and transforms the voltage down and the current up on the secondary.

The GDT rate is about 20Hz.

The secondary is rectified and charges the 3,6v Li-Ion cell that feeds the supply voltage for the HV-blocking oscillator.

It works without a grounding-rod but the battery eventually runs out.
When it is grounded the glow from the GDT is stronger and the secondary of the stepdown generates a higher voltage with more current.

The second AV-plug with the 5,6uF cap is a way to tap the circuit and use a load without disturbing the selffeeding loop.
Very good, I believe it can work. Next step is to run it on large capacitor and measure run time.
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  #6847  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:32 PM
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Very well thinking, janost!
Tell you later how it's working, I think needa fix (correct) the ground link.
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  #6848  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:51 PM
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Move the circuit deep into forest where there is no AC power leakage to ground, just to be sure it's not powered by such currents. And use big precharged capacitor with zener diode protection to run circuit.If after 1 hour it will retain the same voltage level on capacitor it's definitely a kind of OU.
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  #6849  
Old 07-23-2012, 02:22 AM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
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@Janost did you wind your trany's or are they off shelf

I posted a coil configuration for Clarence

After thinking about it, actually I have been thinking on it for a long time, I dont think the current from the ccw coil can run with the current from a cw coil, the angle of propagation of the electrons running through the wire will not run with each other, they do in ac current but they are chopped into small segments.
Ed Leedskalnin said we didnt use positive electricity and I think this is what he was talking about cw has to run with cw it has its own pos(hole) and neg (elec)
Ccw has to run with ccw it has its own pos and neg as well.

When we change the magnetic field to an electric field we are splitting the poles, North makes its own monopole (electricity) and South makes its own monopole as well.
We are not spitting the pos and neg, we are splitting the poles, an thats where we get electricity (magnetricity)

The diagram I posted the two outer secondary's should be both cw.
The bucking coil is the anomaly we are looking for Boyd Bushman found that putting magnets in a bucking configuration had gravitational effects, there are more references to the bucking coil that I have run across in my research.
dave
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  #6850  
Old 07-23-2012, 02:22 AM
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possible schematic of your build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
That being said... i got it to work with a regular AC nst, its not too hard,
You just cant touch the HV ends together like Dons,
I could explain it but here is a vid of mine with it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRB...hannel&list=UL

but yeah the PVM500 dominates all others ive tried, let me know if this vid helped, and make sure you let it load, or you miss the first BANG, even see if you can pause it on a discharge, theyre Big and like gunshots

ahh the vid doesnt show well, so

one of the HV from nst to a forward facing diode
the other HV to a back facing diode
parallel spark gap adjustable
from pos side to series tank cap
cap to series L1
L1 ending at the other spark gap side
L2 connections are the usual, go find out

now balance variac voltage, current draw, and spark distance with many hours of experiments, then post back with a vid
Hello Mr Clean, & all

in the attached thumb nail I came across a similar schematic of of dons chap #3 in patricks feng files. I modified it slightly according to everthing I saw when stop action scrolling you you tube video. I believe its very close. would you make any necessary comments please sir. thanks in advance, mike onward!
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  #6851  
Old 07-23-2012, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
The caps in the AV-plugs won't charge with a lower voltage.
Very interesting... how does a cap not charge???

Quote:
Yes, the 5K pot sets the pump rate through the load.
The SCR fires when the gate voltage exceed 3volt and discharges the cap through the load.
It's like a low voltage sparkgap.

The secondary delivers 13volt and 400mA shorted.
The blocking-oscillator draws about 70mA.

It is selfrunning but only if it's grounded and I can't explain why.
Seems like a simple circuit might have to build to see how the impossible works.

Later
Larry
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  #6852  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:00 AM
janost janost is offline
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The transformers are stock.
The stepup comes from a bugzapper and the stepdown is a 230v to 9v wallwart.

The GDT is just a flurocent-tube lighter with the supression cap cut out.
The exact breakdown voltage is 196v.

The GDT actually pulses the primary of the stepdown but on the secondary there is a ringdown happening with the transformers self-resonant frequency.
That is why I only half-rectified it instead of a bridge to keep the ringing.

I have burned out a couple of wallwart transformer running them with just a sparkgap before I figured out a GDT and the AV-plug performs excellent and the GDT fires before the primary winding breaks down.

The AV-plug does not put any strain on the stepup secondary as it charges passively.

I guess that the caps won't charge on a lower voltage because of leakage in the diodes.
We have 230v lines in my country and if connect the AV-plug to the livewire of a wallplug it only charges to about 6,5volts.
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  #6853  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:27 AM
janost janost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Move the circuit deep into forest where there is no AC power leakage to ground, just to be sure it's not powered by such currents.
That is near impossible in the country of Sweden.

Have to be on an island in that case
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  #6854  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:40 AM
VasiliyBuslaev VasiliyBuslaev is offline
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Hi Harish. I know about the distribution of fields in the coils of different shape and method of winding. I have no objection in this regard.


Hi, mr.clean
Quote:
haha, this is funny,
are you saying that Tesla didnt use LC components?
I did not say that! I tried to express the thought of other ways of excitation of resonant systems
I only commented on the video DEDcolorado. In his design the use standing waves, of sinus-waveform, which are easily obtained using the quarterwave-line, such as in the picture.
I'm trying to say about another kind of standing waves.
Look at the picture of a powerful explosion, such as atomic.
What do you see? rightly - the mushroom cloud. What comes from the center of the explosion - it is the concentric a shock waves - this is the radiant of Tesla.
That is, the phenomenon we are trying to achieve in our experiments. You are nowhere in the books of Tesla did not find it, how to do it.
I hope I have given enough good comparison with the explosion.

P.S. I hope nobody thought I was going to teach someone else here. It is my opinion and the results of the experiments. I'm just trying to share my humble point of view, which does not claim to ultimate truth.

Regards to all
Vasiliy
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  #6855  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:44 AM
janost janost is offline
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My circuit proves that you dont need real HV like ignition-coils or MOTs for this to work.

My theory is that it is actually the sparkgap and the ground-rod that does the magic.

Perhaps also the resonant ringing in the stepdown transformer.
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  #6856  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:07 AM
janost janost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryross View Post
Thanks janost
I assume that the ground rod is the dipole which works better than just the open ended coil... has anyone tried an antenna instead of the ground?
If I grabb the grounding end of the coil with my hand (no chocks felt) the output is stronger so yes, an antenna could work.

If i do that I guess it is pulling the electrons out of my body and the ground I'm standing on.

It is extremly important that the HV-coil is connected the correct way around so that the kickback pulse is positive in respect to the ground.

The other way around and the cap wont charge.

This is really interesting stuff.
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  #6857  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:47 AM
VasiliyBuslaev VasiliyBuslaev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
My circuit proves that you dont need real HV like ignition-coils or MOTs for this to work.

My theory is that it is actually the sparkgap and the ground-rod that does the magic.

Perhaps also the resonant ringing in the stepdown transformer.
Unfortunately, without a spark gap and high-potential will not work.
As we know Tesla was working with a high potential.
The brightly burning lamps and LEDs - this is not serious.
Only the balance of power - the only valid criterion!
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  #6858  
Old 07-23-2012, 11:04 AM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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Yes very, very interesting

Janost,

Thank you for sharing this very interesting "Self running" experiment!
It would be great if you could post a picture or a little more guidance for a replication.

The comment on HV is probably going to be realised someday[everything "Evolves"] and Your observations on the ground are very interesting also!

Can you get reliable measurements?

You sound like a very sincere and honest man!

Thank you
Chet
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Last edited by RAMSET; 07-23-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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  #6859  
Old 07-23-2012, 11:35 AM
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Wrong cap values

There is a mistake on the right-hand side of the drawing. There is a comment that there is a cap bank of 4 caps. Then a total value of 40uf @ 8kv is shown as the value of the bank. If you put 4 10uf caps @ 2kv in series you get 2.5uf at 8kv. If you put them in parallel you get 40uf @ 2kv. You can't get 40uf @ 8kv from 4 10uf @ 2kv caps. Also what is the value of the cap next to the spark gap?


Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Hello Mr Clean, & all

in the attached thumb nail I came across a similar schematic of of dons chap #3 in patricks feng files. I modified it slightly according to everthing I saw when stop action scrolling you you tube video. I believe its very close. would you make any necessary comments please sir. thanks in advance, mike onward!
Respectfully,
Carroll
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  #6860  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:41 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
The transformers are stock.
The stepup comes from a bugzapper and the stepdown is a 230v to 9v wallwart.

The GDT is just a flurocent-tube lighter with the supression cap cut out.
The exact breakdown voltage is 196v.

The GDT actually pulses the primary of the stepdown but on the secondary there is a ringdown happening with the transformers self-resonant frequency.
That is why I only half-rectified it instead of a bridge to keep the ringing.

I have burned out a couple of wallwart transformer running them with just a sparkgap before I figured out a GDT and the AV-plug performs excellent and the GDT fires before the primary winding breaks down.

The AV-plug does not put any strain on the stepup secondary as it charges passively.

I guess that the caps won't charge on a lower voltage because of leakage in the diodes.
We have 230v lines in my country and if connect the AV-plug to the livewire of a wallplug it only charges to about 6,5volts.
What are the amp specs on the wall wart you used.
Thank you for sharing.
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  #6861  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:51 PM
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I suppose component values would change using 120 v 60 cycles as we use here in the US.
I wonder they sell international adapters to run appliances I know they change the voltage but do they also change the frequency.
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  #6862  
Old 07-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
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It was Walter Russel that seemingly had success with bucking coils.
A bucking coil configuration would have either two norths on the outside or two souths, effectively suppressing one monopole and letting north run to north cw to cw or south ccw to ccw.

Leedskalnin's Double Helical Magnetic Interaction - YouTube
This vid shows that a cw twist will run with a cw twist but try that with a cw twisted coil and a ccw twisted coil, they will not run with each other, He is not showing the magnetic field interaction he is showing the electricity (monopole) interaction, there is also a ccw angle of propagation within the magnetic field and it has to be accounted for.

This is a very simple but important experiment Scalar Faraday Disc & Magnetic Spin - YouTube
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  #6863  
Old 07-23-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
There is a mistake on the right-hand side of the drawing. There is a comment that there is a cap bank of 4 caps. Then a total value of 40uf @ 8kv is shown as the value of the bank. If you put 4 10uf caps @ 2kv in series you get 2.5uf at 8kv. If you put them in parallel you get 40uf @ 2kv. You can't get 40uf @ 8kv from 4 10uf @ 2kv caps. Also what is the value of the cap next to the spark gap?




Respectfully,
Carroll
Hello Citfta & all,

Carroll I stand corrected for the cap value of my previous post and yes the bank would be parallel of 4 ea 10uf @ 2000v. I did edit the thumbnail in my previous post and also attached it again here showing that the first C value would be determined by the Luh value of the L1 coil for the specific frequency of the driving NST to bring both to reasonance. thanks for your astuteness and concern, always,mike onward!
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Last edited by clarence; 08-30-2012 at 05:20 AM.
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  #6864  
Old 07-23-2012, 06:08 PM
gyula gyula is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
Try this one.
It is a selfrunner but only when there is a real grounding rod attached.

And Im not even asking a penny for it

Attachment 11799
Hi Janost,

Have you tried to optimize this circuit? I mean for instance the 40mA current draw by the blocking oscillator sounds high to me, though it may be needed to drive the rest of the circuit. So increasing the 1 kOhm base resistor could influence the circuit gradually towards the no-go self sustaining state (with ground attached)? Of course, increasing the 1 kOhm surely changes the oscillator frequency, a good thing to keep this in mind. What is the approximate oscillator frequency? though I guess it is not critical.
Regarding the 1N4007 diodes, they were manufactured for 50/60 Hz and if the oscillator runs in the several kHz range or even higher, you may wish to use fast or ultrafast diodes like the UF4007 or similar. The UF4000 diode series has the same current and voltage spec like the old 1N4000 series but the switching time is under 100 nanosec, versus the millisec speed of the 1N4000s.
The 630nF could be assembled from several paralleled smaller values, this way the resultant equivalent loss resistance gets reduced.
Maybe you could connect a capacitor (small value, say some ten pF) in parallel with the step-down transformer's primary input coil to enhance ringing? if it is beneficial of course.
I also ask the ground leg of the secondary coil of the step-up transformer where you show the ground road is not connected also to the negative point of the 3.6V battery? No need for such connection? just because of the Avramenko plug?

Thanks, Gyula
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Last edited by gyula; 07-23-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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  #6865  
Old 07-24-2012, 03:20 AM
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Thanks for Sharing

Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
Try this one.
It is a selfrunner but only when there is a real grounding rod attached.

And Im not even asking a penny for it

Attachment 11799
Thanks for sharing and most importantly not charging a penny...

Ged
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  #6866  
Old 07-24-2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janost View Post
Try this one.
Attachment 11799
I did; too hi frequency on output, janost, it discharging while running, but, the good news's after disconnection the battery getting voltage back higher than before start.
Anyway this setup is promising.
I'll keep in touch if get something better.
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  #6867  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand View Post
Hi mr clean, There is nothing in that video to suggest that the three "next to"
not "remote" secondaries are powering their LED's from the power of one LED.
Nothing what so ever. Most likely the setup is using a few hundred or so mA
to even work, with one, two, three, or four LED's.

No input/output power is shown, so no conclusions can be made. The fact no
power measurements are shown tells me it is likely way under unity.

Saying that is over 100% efficient is like pointing at an regular inverter
powering 1 bulb then add 3 more and say it is now powering 4 bulbs on the
power of one, there is no more reason/evidence to suggest the smith setup is
doing it than any regular power inverter is doing it with no in/out
measurements. To find the efficiency of an inverter or anything you must
make proper measurements it can't be done by looking at lights.

Cheers
I agree that there are no measurements to be compared, (not that you would believe them anyway hehe)

And yes i wouldnt consider LEDs to be a load worthy of bragging about, but to me this is a tuning video, not the actual load

It would be interesting to hear from DEDcolorado about its output and input.

It only makes sense that if the primary is in resonance, and the proximal secondaries are in magnetic range, then they should recieve just like tuning 3 radios to a radio station.
And the high resistance in primary allowing only a tiny amount of current thru, while the secondaries are at maximum response.

only one way to find out right?
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  #6868  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Hello Mr Clean, & all

in the attached thumb nail I came across a similar schematic of of dons chap #3 in patricks feng files. I modified it slightly according to everthing I saw when stop action scrolling you you tube video. I believe its very close. would you make any necessary comments please sir. thanks in advance, mike onward!
nice one buddy, except i have the cap on the pos side of the spark gap, prob doesnt matter tho, good stuff.

so if you want to use a single terminal like the PVM500 then you can use the HV terminal to forward diode, and the other end of HV flyback/ground wire to the other end of sparkgap
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  #6869  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:18 AM
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tuning vs powering

here is what im saying, this is a tuning vid... but indicating the working principle, and the LEDs arent lighting for no reason, there is a very specific reason they are lighting...resonance energy...
which as you have all seen is more powerful than not resonating. (light... or NO light) pretty basic

smit1 - YouTube

this next vid tho is a load video, different setup, but i just want to show that the small magnet wire IS capable of powering a full 100 watts, etc..,

classic Tesla transformer - YouTube

and here in my video to show tuning

Don Smith Device Project Part 32: Stepdown Coil Tune and Resonance at 53Khz - YouTube

and lastly the result of this "tuning" on real load, for those who havent seen.

Don Smith Device Project Part 33: full watt bulb vs Smith stepdown comparison - YouTube

its progress anyway
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  #6870  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:39 AM
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hi all
anyone understand how this circuit works?

This scheme is the basis from which to start an understanding of circuit design Smith.
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