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  #5161  
Old 03-30-2014, 08:03 PM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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A couple of major developments.....

1. I haven't had the time available to read much of anything here other than the most current posts, but can see that ObummerCare is still a hot topic. I believe that the thing about the unAffordable Care Act which infuriates people the most is the individual mandate which attempts to force the People to purchase something they may not want or need, and which then attempts to extort payments in the form of tax penalties if the People do not comply and purchase what the "government" proclaims must be purchased. This smacks of what is commonly referred to as a "protection racket," which gangsters have long used to extort payment from business owners and individuals by demanding payment in exchange for "protection." The only protection really needed, of course, was protection from being bobbed, beaten up, or killed, by the thugs who operated the protection racket, and these thugs were quick to make examples of anyone who resisted their demands. To make matters worse, there was practically no legal recourse against these thugs because they liberally "greased the palms" of local law enforcement officers and corrupt city officials to get them to "look the other way" while these thugs went about their business. It is the same way with the Ruling Class, and our so-called federal and state "government" officials acting as bedfellows, pretending to be acting in our best interests to "protect us," while actually only devising one scheme after another to defraud and deceive us as they dip their filthy hands further into our pockets to take what little we have left.

Well, we all know that ObummerCare is unconstitutional, and we all know what it is really all about and discussed that in great detail, but now I am going to show you proof that the "government," the SCOTUS, and mainstream media have been lying to the People about ObummerCare. I guarantee that this will definitely open the eyes of anyone reading it - even someone like myself with impaired vision! The truth can be found in 42 U.S. Code, Section 18115, and is explained at the Cornell University Law School website. The text of this U.S. Code reads, "No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs." If you click the 'Notes' tab at the Cornell website you will see that "this Act," as mentioned in the Code, is clearly referring to ObummerCare: "This Act, referred to in text, is Pub. L. 111–148, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 119, known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."

2. And now for the second matter of great importance, which is the fact that the People's Grand Jury movement, which I had written about earlier, has taken off like a skyrocket. New York was the first state to constitute a People's Common Law Grand Jury (CLGJ), on February 27, 2014, and to date there are 5 additional states which are fully constituted (meaning that all counties in those states are represented in their CLGJ's). Here are the states which followed New York's lead, and the dates they were constituted:

Florida 3-15-14
Connecticut 3-15-14
Rhode Island 3-15-14
New Jersey 3-22-14
New Hampshire 3-29-14

Here in Maine we are meeting in the state's capitol city, Augusta, on April 12th to constitute the Maine Common Law Grand Jury. I'll be there with others representing my county, and all the other Maine counties, for this historic event. Across the nation, all remaining states are currently working diligently to constitute their own CLGJ's. I encourage every one reading this to step up and take action now to help constitute a CLGJ in the counties of your state. Nothing can be considered more important at this time, and once all the state CLGJ's have been constituted we can then begin the task of taking back our nation. This process will begin by informing each state's Superior Court judges, Clerks of Court, and county sheriffs of their duty to uphold and obey their sworn oaths, and to conduct themselves in accordance and compliance with Common Law and the Constitution under the watchful eyes of the CLGJ's. Failure to comply and cooperate with the CLGJ's will result in indictment, and removal from their positions. New York is already several steps into that process, and as can be expected, the affected office holders have been quite reluctant to cooperate and comply, hoping of course that the CLGJ movement will give up and go away. The New York CLGJ is showing them, though, that their CLGJ will follow through in enforcing their demands upon the officials through indictments. See for yourselves the power of a CLGJ in action, through a Quo Warranto Writ filed March 24th, and a subsequent Writ of Prohibition filed March 26th, warning the magistrates of the NY Supreme court not to attempt wresting control of the Quo Warranto Case away from the CLGJ.

Similar actions are underway now in the other states which have already constituted a CLGJ, and these actions will soon sweep across the nation, empowering the People and defeating the tyrants who have been destroying our legal system, and thus our nation, under practice of deceptions and the "color of law," which is not law and is only a fiction.
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  #5162  
Old 03-31-2014, 03:45 PM
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Rick,

Welcome back and glad to hear you’re recovering somewhat. I’m sorry to hear of your serious situation and the terrible fall. I hope you get back to full speed soon.

I was a little disappointed to hear that you might not be here posting as much even after you recover as your attention is focused other priorities. I know this thread is important to you and that you will be back here regularly just to check up on it but I do enjoy our exchanges and all the back and forth from all the regulars here.


As for the Peoples Grand Jury I really have no faith in that working, for me it’s just another circle the small sector of the disenfranchised people will be sent in. Think the Patriot movement, the Tea Party, the Oath Keepers, and all the other such movements, organizations and ideas that have all not been able to kill the beast. It is my firm belief that the only real way to make any change is by force with armed revolt and I just don’t see that happening until the ruling class have basically stripped the world of everything and the masses are pushed into a position of having nothing left but to fight.

The Peoples Grand Jury might get some traction and even become a huge movement but like the Bitcoin the powers that run the world will yank the rug out from under the movement when it becomes a pain in their backside. This will happen by creating some new legislation or twisting laws already on the books to make such a people uprising illegal and those who participate dangerous criminals and therefore those people will be swiftly dealt with.

The reality is very clear for me and that is these people in power simply need to be removed by force and if they resist they need to be killed on the spot. Treating them the same as they treat the people they supposedly represent. Until then it’s the same old record or song being played the only difference is who (the elected official who is voted in) that gets to wind up the record player.

Again Glad your back!
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  #5163  
Old 03-31-2014, 06:33 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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There is a 'standard'

way that 'beurocracies' and 'hierachies' deal with a 'rebellious' effort or movement; (Read this somewhere, and its so true);
Firstly, they 'ignore' it; as ANY effort on the part of the 'powers that be', would be counter-productive, it would draw attention to the movement, and help it build.
Second, discredit and 'outlaw', using dis-information/distortion, to make the 'rbels' seem like 'crackpots and criminals'; we see this all the time, look at 'tea party' treatment in the media, or Assads representation of rebels, etc.

And, the IRS treatment of 'tes party' groups, as mis-using power to suppress/frustrate, etc.

The third and final phase, after these first 2 fail, (often with 'bloody' effects for some on both sides), is, they ABSORB the 'rebel' movement. The 'hierarchy' (Powers that be) accept and inculcate SOME of the goals, beliefs, and aims of the rebel movement, but they exact a price; the 'movement must become 'mainstream', and work within the 'system'.

We certainly will see this play out with this effort, as it seems universal. How the THIRD 'phase' works out, I don't know, as i'm unsure of exactly WHAT the goals, aims, and beliefs of this effort are; to hold the Gov't accountable to the people, and insist they follow the Constitution and Common Law? Well, TPTB certainly aren't going to accept that very readily, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see?

There ARE sometinmes when the 'powers' simply CAN'T do the 3rd part, like in Syria, where ASSAD isn't going to accept stepping down, and the rebels aren't going to accept less. That MAY be what will happen with this, if steps 1 and 2 aren't succesful. And THATS usually the situation in which you get a 'civil' war, so, 5150, IF they can't 'ignore', or discredit/suppress, you MAY get what you are saying you want. Personally, I THINK TPTB ALWAYS workk for a 'win/win' situation. But normally, 'win/win/ means you and I have differences, and we negotiate to where we BOTH get something, hence 'win/win'; TPTB see it differently; whichever way it turns out, "I" win; now THATS a 'win/win' result. Hence, the reason why they are CALLED 'Revolutions'; the SAME people, (or TYPE of people) eventually end up on top, again! As for me and mine, we won't be 'manning the barricades', we'll be keeping our head down, and 'heading for the hills'. To each his own!Jim
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  #5164  
Old 04-01-2014, 07:52 AM
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Exclamation NSA SPYING on AMERICANS

Howdy all,

The NSA collection of United States citizens Phone and Email data is not only the worlds largest identity theft accomplished but "can or will" be used to make a backdoor listing method or form of a HOME "registry firearm data base". This is accomplished by the tracking and recording of all firearm and ammo retail store outlets, distributors, wholesalers, manufactures or gunsmiths phone numbers that are called to and phone numbers received from both party's. The thinking behind this is because, only firearm holders would be contacting these firearm and ammo retail sales outlets, distributors, wholesalers, manufactures or gunsmiths for purchasing items of firearm owner interests. This data transaction could include a credit card which usually uses a dedicated phone line and possibly a internet email receipt all using a time/date stamp which is traceable and track-able to any United States citizens HOME. This fishing net method would be used by law enforcement agencies for any possible firearm types and quantity located inside the home for SWAT teams on future upcoming firearm confiscations.

The reasons for the United States government to do this is the mandated "firearm confiscation" is for appeasement of the United Nations small firearms treaty or "BAN" that's on Obama's desk right now waiting for his signature and phone blessing, or the left wing Liberal movement to omit all American law abiding citizens or military veterans to possess firearms because the existing laws and strong arm tactics can provide Americans personal protection, or because of the Affordable Care Act with 69,000 medical illness codes ranging from intergalactic alien to jelly fish injury's all having a code number, but illnesses like PTSD plus many others will be named, marked and classified as "NO FIREARM POSSESSION" afflictions. Agencies all having personal medical records available for use, scrutiny and remedy of implementation by the IRS and 5 million other Federal, State, County, City personnel and Private Agency's and their personnel. This would also coincide with the harsh new EPA regulations from the Obama administration from 2008-2013 that has crippled all three of the existing United States "lead smelters" whom actually closed because of the EPA regulations and fines that were imposed upon them ..... "no lead" means no bullets or ammo for guns or firearms, unless lead or ammo/bullets are imported from another country.

Please note Obama ordered the Justice Department on Thursday he sought a 90-day extension and got it Friday 28, 2014 of the National Security Agency’s current phone surveillance program, while Congress debates his proposed reforms and to finish his administrations covert collection agenda on all law abiding documented United States citizens.

Best Hopes,
Glen
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  #5165  
Old 04-03-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quotable quote of the day....

Ron Paul appeared before a standing room only crowd at Syracuse University just recently, and spoke these simple but timely words:

Paul told the students, “the answer isn’t more government, the answer is more liberty."
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  #5166  
Old 04-03-2014, 03:25 PM
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A&E for 9/11 truth update

During the past few months, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth has concentrated their "ReThink 9/11" efforts on informing Canadians that there is a lot more to the 9/11 story than they were told by government and media. Placards were placed in buses and subway trains, and on the top of taxi cabs, and billboards were set up in many places. Currently, a 17 city tour of Canada by A&E and other truth movement speakers is underway, and public attendance and enthusiasm at these events has been remarkable. As a result, public awareness has been heightened and already there are more than 45 persons who have stepped forward to run for Canadian Parliament positions on a platform of 9/11 truth. If most, or all of these candidates get elected, it will send a really strong message to the PTB types who hoped that the 9/11 truth movement would all fade away.

Twenty-four Canadians were said to have been killed as a result of the 9/11 events, and three other people with close Canadian connections were also killed. Some of them had Canadian relatives or were born in Canada, but later took American citizenship.
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  #5167  
Old 04-03-2014, 05:33 PM
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President Obama met with various religious leaders of the Christian, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and some other faiths less known in a effort to bring more revenue to the United States Treasury. The plan Obama outlined to each of the religious leaders was a new TAX percentage on tithing collections taken from followers at their place of worship ..... Obama's ground breaking plan is to have GOD totally involved in the process as Obama is a man of faith. The new Obama progressive plan and fundamental change with a pen and phone in hand to the TAX system, is that all money and funds collected daily would be tossed in the air, what ever GOD wanted and needed God would take, any money or funds that falls or hits the ground would be collected by a government IRS minder being called a "fair" TAX for the United States Treasury to revolutionize and streamline collection. This new plan left the religious leaders speechless, giving Obama the impression of approval he needed to proceed.

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  #5168  
Old 04-04-2014, 03:45 PM
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Good one, Glen. And while we're on the subject of "government" schemes to tax and spend us into oblivion, I think it is worth mentioning Barry's latest scheme to confiscate the lifetime savings of the American public. He's calling it his "MyRA" plan. He wants everyone to think that it is a safer alternative than current retirement accounts, and that this plan will protect their assets since they will be backed by US Bonds. In actuality, this is nothing less than an asset grab that will finance the staggering US debt. It is not just coincidence that the total of individual US retirement savings accounts currently stands at about $19 trillion, which is slightly more than the "official" US debt figures, and the "government" is desperate to come up with a way to finance this debt. Of course the way to pull this off is by converting all current retirement accounts into purchase of US Bonds. The owners of these accounts would see statements showing how much interest they are earning on the bonds, which won't be much, but they will be lulled into believing that this is the safest way to protect their savings. Meanwhile, while this all looks safe on paper statements, the actual savings will have been depleted, pretty much in the same way that the Social Security Trust Fund was depleted. The assets will be used to "pay down" current debt, and to finance current and new budget deficit expenditures.

I first spoke of this plan many months ago. Congress has been eyeing the confiscation of retirement assets for several years now as being perhaps their only way out of the debt boondoggle which they have created. Quite the dastardly plan, don't you think?

Of course it doesn't much matter what plan an individual's monetary assets are "invested" in if those assets are denominated in US dollars, because of the following two reasons:
1. As has been pointed out earlier, US dollars have no real value whatsoever, as they are not backed by anything of actual value. Therefore, all those retirement "nest eggs" are already virtually worthless, and only have what is now a perceived value.
2. When the US dollar falls from its standing as the world's reserve currency, which is something you can count on happening in the near future, even the perceived value of the dollar will drop to a zero (or near zero) level. Those who thought they had socked away enough monetary assets to last through their retirement years will have an extremely rude awakening some morning when they find that their US dollar savings of $100,000 or more has been devalued to the point where it won't buy much more than a single trip to the grocery store, and of course only then if the grocery store owner is willing to accept a currency which is rapidly declining to a near zero value. Store owners will most certainly begin demanding payment in some other currency which does appear to have some stability, and of course that would be the new world reserve currency. Some think that this new currency will be the Amero, or perhaps a Chinese replacement, but whatever it is called it will be foisted upon us by the NWO banksters, and will once again be a currency which only has perceived value.

It is said that a plan is underway to thwart the NWO's destruction and replacement scheme, and that plan can be reviewed in the video found here. Basically, this involves the printing and distribution of gold-backed US Treasury notes. Some of what is stated in the video makes sense and is verifiable, while certain other statements (such as the creation of the federal Reserve and World Bank originally being a noble effort for the good of mankind) certainly arouses disbelief. Whether or not this plan is actually taking place at this time, and whether or not it has a chance of succeeding if it actually is underway, are two questions that must be asked. Quite obviously, if we have heard about the plan then the NWO is also aware of it and we know they would use everything in their power to attempt to stop it, and the people involved in it, dead in their tracks. There is no way that they could willingly allow such a plan to be carried out. Some believe that the "disappearance" of flight 370 has something to do with this, and of course that is just as possible as any other idea concerning what became of the plane, especially if it had been carrying a cargo of gold-backed currency meant for distribution. That scenario, of course, could play out in perhaps 2 different ways:
1. The NWO could have arranged for hijacking, diverting, and possibly destroying the aircraft and its cargo.
2. The flight may have intentionally been flown to a destination other than its officially scheduled one in order to foil the NWO and ensure safe passage of the cargo.

A story about flight 370 having landed at a US military base known as Diego Garcia has been widely circulated on the Internet, and while some of the story details seem a bit far-fetched, Diego Garcia does make sense in that it would have been much closer to being in line with the path of the plane as it turned back to the left and crossed over land before going out over the Indian Ocean. There would have been enough fuel to reach Diego Garcia, and the landing strip there is about 1,000 meters in length, certainly capable of handling the large aircraft. It's the perfect place to land if you want the world to believe that the plane simply vanished with no clue as to its location, which on the surface seems a rather absurd story. Another question to ask about this is why there has been non-stop coverage of the disappearance on newscasts, with little mention of anything else, for nearly a month now. There's a lot of important stuff going on in the world, and right here in the US, that receives either no mention or scant mention. It seems to me that this is more like the scene from The Wizard of Oz, where the person behind the curtain says "Don't look over there, behind the curtain. Pay no attention to that!" They clearly want everyone focused on a created drama.
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  #5169  
Old 04-04-2014, 04:26 PM
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Power does not corrupt

The old saying that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
In observation is incorrect, Power doesn't corrupt but it doe's attract corrupted
people, the greater the power the more attractive to the corrupt. This is not to say that all people going into "public service" are corrupted, those few who are not and hold to their integrity are sidelined, marginalized, discredited and made ineffective if they maintain effectiveness through public support then a multitude of scandals surface and if that doesn't do it, tragic accidents may happen.
This causes me to suspect anyone who "runs" for office, especially career politicians. (anyone who spends millions to get a job that pays thousands, something ain't right)
Anyone who wishes to dictate how others should/must live is already displaying signs of fear and insecurity which tends to promote corruption.
It's hard at times to remember that they are divine beings too

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  #5170  
Old 04-04-2014, 08:57 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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Yes, Good 'Un, Glen

So Obummer says, (at least to CHRISTIANS); "So O.K., hand over the $. After all, Jesus SAID 'Render unto Caeser, that which is Caesers'."

Every example, so far, where 'we' have set up a 'program' where SOME of peoples $, during their 'productive years' is set aside for their retirement, and 'managed' by someone else, has resulted in theft. Pensions, Socia Insecurity, etc.

As you said Rick, when the amount of $ gets high enough, it becomes irresistable. No reason to think IRA's and 401K's will be any different.

There IS an 'underlieing issue', which gives rise to these various 'schemes'. Too many people DON'T 'put aside' enough, or even ANY, $ for 'retirement', or even for emergencies. Even after 2008, recent 'survey' showed most Americanson't have enough $ 'in reserve', to handle a major 'downturn'.

The ignorance is abysmal; most peole have little understanding of financial matters, or "How $ works". "Whatya mean, I don't understand how $ works; I go to the store, pay the $, and bring home the product! Of COARSE I 'understand how money works!' " wHICH IS LIKE SAYING "i UNDERSTAND HOW A CAR WORKS! I PUT IN THE KEY, START THE CAR, PUT IT IN DRIVE, AND GO!

But, most people, (a considerable majority) have no understanding of how their car works, their body works, or their Gov't works, spo WHY would we expect them to understand how $ works??

To me, something which was really,...'instructive'. Remember when Moodies 'downgraded' U.S. treasury bonds, sighting not only the political disfunction surrounding the 'shutdown' (paraphrasing THIER words) but clearly stated it was ALSO because of long term obligations, and overall fiscal mis-management; Entitlements, etc.

The thing is, there was NO significant move away from vesting in U.S. treaury bonds, even after this 'downgrade'. WHY? Because the 'market' looked at the OTHER places 'it' could invest, and 'detirmined' (market forces, etc.) that, DESPITE what we all see, know and post about, concerning how f*cked up the U.S. government is, and how out of whack its finances are, that that U.S. treaury bonds were still,......'safer' investment than ANYTHING ELSE!

Now, this is important, children. Interest paid on investment is based on percieved risk, the greater the risk, the higher the interest. And, U.S. treasury bonds are the 'benchmark'; They are percieved as having the LOWEST risk, of AY investment, anywhere in the world. And so, they are the baseline, and every other investments risk is calculated based on a comparison to the baseline of U.S. treasury bonds.

You see the IRONY? U.S. treasury bonds = WORTHLESS. Hence, any OTHER investment is like, even MORE worthless! So, the 'financial markets', in their infinite wisdom, are saying (to the 'waiter) "Yes, please. I'll have the S*it sandwich, cause its LESS UNPALATABLE than anything else on the menu!

The whole worldwide financial system is BASED on this 'premise', and if the premise is flawed, the whole system comes tumbling down. Put another way, what happens to your 'measuring system' (for 'detirming risk'), if the baseline, you use for detirmining everything else, is WRONG? Well, then no one really KNOWS how to establish the risk for anything else, and without being able to have an ageed upon way to detirmine risk, ALL financial transactions involving CREDIT, cease.

I look at the Corporate U.S. Government, with their f*cked up way of operating and think "And YOU (finacial makets, etc.) REALLY think THATS the 'BEST'? Are you f*cking KIDDING me?"

But 'we' keep on using this obviously broken system, cause NO ONE wants the alternative. Its "The Emporers New Clothes" exactly. Everyone wants to 'pretend' the Emporer has clothse, cause it beats the alterntive of admitting he's naked. (because laughing beats crying, MOT of the time.) Jim
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchdivco View Post
The other half is, you will have to continue to make sure you have no return coming, in the future, cause this penalty will 'sit' there, with interest, forever. Unless O'bummercare collapses, law repealed, etc.
I see what your saying now. So your not actually avoiding the penalty, your just avoiding having to PAY the penalty.
Im still not so certain that the penalty itself is not considered a tax...

ObamaCare Mandate: Exemption and Tax Penalty

According to that site, they are identifying the penalty AS a tax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-mandate-exemption-penalty.php
For those who can afford it and choose not to purchase health insurance the tax will be unavoidable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchdivco View Post
This is similar to the system they set up years ago, to collect from 'deadbeat' Dads and Moms. IF you owe unpaid child support, and IF the custodial parent applies for Welfare, the state can then use a refund intercept mechanism to 'grab' your tax refund, and funnel it to the state.
Yes my thoughts exactly. Many people are in jail now due to unpaid child support.
So if they treat the obamacare penalty as a tax, they will have the same capabilities to garnish your income, make a payment plan, or arrest you for tax evasion.
I promise you, they wont sit back and let people collapse their system...how many times have we heard them say, "its the law of the land", gestapo tactics are next. Afterall king Obama can apparently change the law at will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchdivco View Post
Thats ASSUMING their IS a return to some form of civilisation, which i think is quite an assumption. I have my doubts, frankly.
The thing is, there are 7 billion people in the world. Even after any form of depression or crash, the first thing people will do is recreate civilization. Unless some kind of pandemic happens. I don't think a crash will be global and I don't think it will reset the world. I think the dollar and euro will crash but the Chinese yen will probably survive and actually become the next reserve currency (unless America isn't happy about that and becomes the vocal leader of a world currency.) Think about it this way, when the US Dollar is no longer the reserve currency, would you rather see the Yen possess the power of the reserve currency or see a world currency?

I have bought foreign currency from all over the world. The new $100 Bill, is no longer American, its foreign. That was done on purpose.
Its no longer green..its blue, and has the reflective stripe. Green has always defined the dollar, why now must it blend with everyone else? They are preparing us for whats coming, to ease the transition.

IMHO...When this is all over americans will beg for the NWO. It will be the best answer to stabilize our own currency and prevent the Chinese century. Anyone notice Romney say, during the 2012 election, he wants the next century to be another American century. These people know what's happening.

I suggested gold because I expect a financial collapse, not a civilization collapse. Either way, everyone should stock up on weapons, food and medical supplies. For all anyone knows, a meteor could hit the planet and bring everything to a halt. Regardless of what happens to the dollar, gold will hold its value. Even if it decreases in value, if the dollar collapses whatever gold you have will still be worth more than the dollar...because it will be worthless.

RICKOFF!!
Great to see you back! Sad to hear of your fall, Glad your OK.
Hope your health improves!
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:27 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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ACA, penalty and GOld

"Originally Posted by ObamaCare Mandate: Exemption and Tax Penalty
For those who can afford it and choose not to purchase health insurance the tax will be unavoidable."

Without even going to the source, checking 'context', etc. I QUESTION the validity of this statement.

There are multiple ways to address the penalty. 7 or more exemptions, first of all. Granted, with the caveat "those who can afford it" some don't apply; if you don't make enough income is one. But there are 'religious exemptions' although Obummer doesn't seem to care much about those.

Anyway, I searched the issue, and am pretty confident of the approach i am taking, at least in the short run. Like every decision in life, its a gamble.
I'm choosing to 'bet' that A)They won't change the law, to 'beef up' IRS's ability to collect, any time soon.B)This 'method' I'm using, (more about that in a minute) will work, at least short term, and doesn't peclude me using religious exemption, etc. later.
And C) The law will 'collapse' under its own weight, before I will be made to pay any penalty.

Now, when I searched it, it appears Rush Limbaugh was the first to raise this issue. Apperently as soon as the Law was passed, (so we could READ whats in it) he went over all 26,000 pages. HE first 'announced' and explained the collection of the penalty, as written in the law, and pointed out this 'loophole'; that the ONLY way IRS can collect the penalty is IF you have a return coming, they can withhold the penalty, and any interest BASED on the penalty, from your return. No return, no way for them to 'withhold', hence no way for them to 'collect'.

When he first promulgated this, on his radio show, it got a lot of attention, and numerous people looked at it, and the concensus was to AGREE with his reading. So, it will require a CHANGE to the law, as written; I don't THINK the IRS can deal with this, simply thru a 'regulation'. So Congress would have to change the law.

Coarse, even tho we were told, before passage and before SCOTUS ruling, that ACA was like a 'jigsaw' puzzle; take away ANY part, and the whole thing collapses. And then Obummer has proceeded to make change after change, ALL without any Congressional action.

The irony is, for those who take the approach I'm taking, its a GOOD thing for the individual, but a 'bad' thing from the point of the Gov't revenues. Its what financial advisors have been saying for YEARS, but that millions of Americans have ignored.

Lots of 'middle class', who USE the income tax withholding as a payroll deduction savings plan. You get no interest on the $, your letting Uncle Sam 'borrow' it, interest free, for the year. But, a lot of people LIKE getting that nice, big return at the end of the year.

For wife and I, this started with the 'stimulas', where they changed my wifes withholding. It was only MARCH, and they stopped withholding FED taxes from her paycheck. "Tax holiday', or whatever. In MY state, the STATE TAX is some % of the federal tax. You can 'choose' the %, on your state withholding form. Problem is, 2.5%, 10% or 50%, it doesn't matter! "X"% of -0- is -0-. And, my state wasn't 'giving' any tax 'holiday'. So, in order to insure we didn't end up owing a lot to the state, we checked "Additional amount you would like withheld from your check" on the FEDERAL form, simply to insure enough STATE taxes would be withheld.

As a result, we got back a big federal return, and a small state return, but didn't 'owe'. Anyway, the 'tax holiday' is over, and so Uncle sugar is not getting several 1000 $ interest free loan from us, anymore. If enough others take this approach, revenues COULD be affected. Its NOT that difficult, to leagally and legitimately change your 'withholding' so as to insure you PAY the 'right amount' of Federal taxes, but NOT paying in any 'extra'.

In particular, they have issued to changes; firstly, a delay in the COMPANY mandate, to charge (on their taxes) a PENALTY to companies (initially) over 50 employees, changed to 100. And,they have DELAYED that. O'bummers own former press secretary has said he thinks THAT will NEVER be enforced.

It was included, in order to make the 'independent Congrssional Budget Office" projections 'look' more palatable. Without this Mandate, the #'s change, significantly. And the CBO HAS to make its 'projections' based on the way things are; including the way laws are written. So, such projections continue to be based on the foundation that this employer mandate WILL be enforced. Any such projections are meaningless, and things would have to be re-calculated, if this mandate is never enforced.

The biggest 'threat' tho, still is the 'death-spiral', and I think Obummers little 'victory dance in the endzone' Rose Garden speech, is going to be looked back on as his "Mission Accomplished" speach. They say we could start to see what the insurance companies premiums, for NEXT year are going to be, prior to November, the next 'open enrollment' period.

They periodically tout the 4 million (last count) who have applied for medicaid.
And will continue to sign up, as it is year around nrollment. But, THOS people aren't, and never were relavent as to O'bummercare; the are the people who will be 'exempt' from the penalty, because they don't make enough $, even if they get a sizable 'return' because of earned income tax credit.

THEY won't effect the premiums at ALL, next year. Theoretically, DOWN the road, these people won't betting medical care from emergency rooms, that the hospitals aren't compensated for, and so the hospitals won't reflect this in increased charges (at least, this is the idea), but in the short term, these people won't have any effect on next years premiums. Those premiums will be a reflection of HOW many people sign up for, and use, health insurance, and further it will be in each market. If more sick/older people sign up, in the area where you live, than younger healthier people, the premium in the area where you live, will go up. In some areas, Ins. companies may well look at the #'s for a given area, and decide they don't even want to offer policies. So, there may well be areas of the country that ate 'dead zones', where NO insurance company chooses to 'bid', or 'enter the marketplace' by 'offering' a policy. In other areas, Premiums may go way up, to reflect the '#'s' in that area.

We already have the situation where a 40 y.o. male pays 'X' aount in Philedephia (sp?) and the same individual pays a very different amount in Wyoming. This situation always existed, of coarse. But now, its part of 'Obamacare'. We are already seeing stories of people in Cancer treatment, who can't get a policy which has their providers 'in network'. Wait till we see stories of peole who's premiums, even WITH the Federal assistance, are going to skyrocket (next year).

And, of coase there is the stu showing that 'poor' people, who not having insurance are USED to just going to the ER, continue going to the ER, even after having Insurance. So, its questionable THAT whole argument of 'bending the curve' is valid.

There actually ARE some things in the law I think are good; the change in re-imbursement is long overdue; Old way; a 67 y.o.man comes into the hospital, is treated and released, (Medicare billed). He is re-admitted to hospital, 1 1/2 weeks later, because hospital failed to accurately diagnose and treat th problem, and NOW he has 'complications, as a direct result of delay treatnment. GUESS what? Medicare gets billed, again. The NEW system, it is said, will pay according to results, not tests, and treatments, with LOTS of incentives for positive outcomes, and dis-incentives for negative ones. Depending on how it turns out, this COULD be a worthwhile and 'good' reform, long overdue. However, there will probably be bad incentives inadvertenty written into THIS law. After all, the "old sytem" I just detailed, was a result of previous legislation.

On Gold, its o.k. for 'long term preservation of wealth', both against inflation, and Apocalypse. For me and mine, I'd rather invest such $ in things that make us more self sufficient; solar panels, batteries, etc. Both lowers our current 'expenses', giving us even more $ to invest, and puts us in a better situation if/when SHTF.
Beyond that, I like things like cans of cigarette tobacco, sealed. Coffee, also in sealed cans. And chocolate bars, which hold up pretty good if stod cool and dry. Looking for things it would be difficult to make/grow yourself, so would be 'scarce' and valuable after SHTF, that store long term, and that people would want, because they would remind them of 'before'. And of coarse, ammunition, etc. Jim
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:45 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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NSA Documents archive.
https://www.aclu.org/nsa-documents-search
Exampel https://www.aclu.org/files/natsec/ns...nformation.pdf
https://www.aclu.org/files/natsec/ns...Inaccuracy.pdf
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:39 PM
wayne.ct wayne.ct is offline
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Bond Alternative

Realizing that the US dollar is fast becoming worthless, some people are putting more of their assets in the stock market. The stock averages, after all, seem to keep rising. It is probably a trap, because if people stop buying/paying then the profits of these companies will likely collapse. Hard assets seem to be the way to go.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:33 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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Paper is paper

IF (or as many on this sight believe) WHEN the financial system collapses, the $ is 'recognised' as what it really is, etc. then ALL financial instruments value will be, at the very least, in question.

PERCIEVED risk is what is used to detirmine howmuch 'interest' is 'paid' on any investment. And it all starts with the U.S. treasuries, and by extention, the dollar. IT, (remember, its PERCIEVED risk) is seen as having the LOWEST risk, and therefore is the 'benchmark' every other investments risk is measured against. IF the 'financial market' ever wakes up, and realises that the $ has NO value, and extremely high risk, than no one will have any 'benchmark' to use, to establish the 'risk' for any other investment.

Eventually, of coarse, some other benchmark may emerge, but in the meantime all the 'horror' stories promulgated in 2008, of a 'collapse' of the financial markets, will happen. CREDIT markets will be frozen; banks won't loan to other banks, of anyone else, as they won't have a mechanism for evaluating risk; FOR ANY LOAN. No credit, and (as we saw on a relatively small scale) many businesses fold. Jobs lost, less purchasing, further company closings, and on and on.

Anyway, thats one possible scenario. Given the downgrade in credit rating, (and the reasons for it, including no budget in 4-5 years, etc.) and the fact it seemed to have no effect on the buying of treasury bonds, it may be the 'markets' will continue to pretend the Emporer has clothes, as its preferable to the alternative.

We are in stocks, only because wifes 401K only gives us that option, and we've done 'well' (on paper) these last 4-5 years. Matching funds, so we would have to 'loose' 50%, before we REALLY 'loose' anything, and even then, hey, its ONLY paper!

Yes, 'hard' assets are better, and if inflation is inevitable, as the FED ends Quantitative easing, it seems logical to 'buy now,as it will cost more later'.

There MAY even be some 'logic' in people who are heavily into credit, as in "Hey, we get the stuff, and if everything goes bad, we'll STILL have the stuff, and they can't re-possess from everyone. There were actually SOME people who lived for a year and a half, and paid no mortgage payment. But, I personally am not going that way. We have NO credit, no payments or interest, etc. Jim
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:56 PM
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White House now boasts that more than 10 million Americans have signed up for Obamacare- but only after Medicaid enrollees and PRISON INMATES are added

Quote:
When someone gets discharged from the jail and they don’t have insurance and they don’t have a plan, we can pretty much set our watch to when we’re going see them again,’ Chicago’s Cook County Sheriff’s office spokesman Ben Breit told Bloomberg Businessweek.


LMFAO! This is such spin and total lies it’s outright laughable. Their arguments that inmates in jail when discharged who don’t have an insurance plan are expected to have recidivism rate of 100% just by the fact they have no insurance plan. LMFAO

Could never be to the fact that discrimination, poor economy, drug addiction, mental problems or a whole host of other social and economical issues place inmates a huge disadvantage all of which having a medical insurance plan can fix.

Let’s look at the faulty thinking and the lie here. So these inmates leave prison and since they have no healthcare they want to return to prison to live where they are given free healthcare is the basis of this argument. Well under the ACA if they are destitute on the street they still qualify for the ACA with vouchers and other programs so they can get health care coverage, after all that was the entire point of the ACA so EVERYONE would be covered regardless of circumstance. So their argument is faulty and is basically scare tactics.

Like this article points out, “IF” the white house is now using prison populations for boosting th'e number of enrollee's then these are shallow enrollment numbers because although all those inmates might be signed up as a number, they’re in prison they are getting free healthcare and not paying for it. How can the ACA claim the enrollment numbers are leading to success? Again the tax payers are on the hook paying the inmates insurance plans until the day the ACA magically takes off and becomes self sufficient like in Obama’s wet dream of it working.

This will never happen and it’s clear they are reaching out to find enrollment numbers anywhere they can just to sell it as a success. They could enroll 100 million people and still proclaim a success but if all 100 million are not paying for the insurance how can it be successful?


White House boasts over 10 million Americans signed up for Obamacare | Mail Online

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Big day: President Obama talked about the new milestones for the Affordable Care Act in a speech held in the White House Rose Garden, but TV networks denied his request to have it televised
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:18 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Originally Posted by dutchdivco View Post
Matching funds, so we would have to 'loose' 50%, before we REALLY 'loose' anything, and even then, hey, its ONLY paper!
Endless hrs of work - the property "its ONLY paper"?


Can a U.S. Supreme Court decision be “nullified?” Can a law passed by Congress be declared unconstitutional by a court?

The Supreme Court’s decision was based on the premise that “Congress cannot impose a duty or tax upon personal property, ...

Personal Income Tax Violates U.S. Supreme Court Ruling ~ Privately Owned Federal Reserve Violates U.S. Constitution & President Kennedy’s Executive Orders. | Political Vel Craft


Al
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:12 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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5150

Its all 'spin', and that Rose Garden speach is going to be O'bummers "Mission Accomplished", and hang around his neck.
The 7 million # was an arbitrary #, established by the Congressional Budget Office. Arbitrary because the CBO is required to make estimates of what enacting a law is going to 'cost', and what its going to do, (in this case, total # of americans insured) based on CURRENT law, and legislation as written.
ANY change, and the estimate becomes meaningless, hence 'arbitrary' #; it has NO meaning. Its pretty obvious, some things were put into the law, merely to 'fudge' the #'s, and so they could say "CBO says ACA will be revenue neutral", and "will insure "X" million currently uninsured Americans", so it could gain passage. For instance, as written employers with over 50 employees are required to insure their employees, or face a fine. Supposed to be iplace, NOW. Firstly, they delayed that, and then changed it to 100 employees, and there are serious doubts as to wheterh it will ever be enforced; that changes the #'s CBO was using to calculate their estimate, to the point of making the estimate meaningless. Because the 'idea' is all those employees would be gettingovered, andit wouldn't cost taxpayers anything; either they would get insurance thru their employer, OR employer would pay a fine, which would cover cost (to taxpayers) of insuring them. But, if this provision is never enforced, we have to assume these individuals will go to the exchange, where they will get a taxpayer subsidised plan. Hence, a large # of people on the exchanges, that CBO calculated wouldn't be.


There are 3 numbers that WILL be important; Tha amount of $ taxpayers end up paying to subsidise the enrollees in the exchange plans, The amount the plans have to be additionally subsidised because the insured pools turned out to be sicker than anticipated, and the rates plans file for next year. And, whats more; IF (as I suspect) Insurnce companies calculate that they willhave to raise rates on these plans too high to make them 'affordable', even with the subsidies, they will try to 'offset' this, by ALSO raising the rates for employer based plans. Hence, EVERYONES insurance will go up, not just those getting their insurance through the exchanges.

I said when ACA was first being promulgated, that this will 'test' Lincolns assertion; "You can fool SOME of tpeople ALL the time, and ALL of the people, SOME of the time, but you can't fool ALL the people, ALL the time!"

The #'s NEVER made 'sense', the original justifications NEVER made sense, and the ACA will never 'work'. The REAL question is, when it becomes obvious that its not working, what will be done THEN?

As for what the jailer was quoted as saying, I have no idea, but he may have been ( tactless but true) saying; Those prisoners who are released, back into a life where they have no health insurance are POOR; and are therefore more likely to return (for a whole HOST of reasons). They are PROBABLY going to go right back to the life they had before incarceration; same neighborhood, same 'friends', etc. And now, as a 'convicted felon' with an even worse situation, re: job prospects. Those who, upon release, are going into a situation in which they have health insurance are 'white-collar', middle or upper income background; they have a much lower rescidivism rate. NOT because they have or don't have insurance, but because they have a 'support' system', probably higher education level and other resources, which improve their chances of 'making it'.

To revisit; IS the Penalty a tax? Scotus says NO. Scotus says the premium is a tax, and the penalty is a penalty, for not paying the tax. JIM
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:31 AM
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To revisit; IS the Penalty a tax? Scotus says NO. Scotus says the premium is a tax, and the penalty is a penalty, for not paying the tax. JIM
Right, Jim, just as I have said all along. When you don't pay a tax that you are said to owe, the IRS hits you with a non-payment penalty and adds interest to the amount you "owe" until all is paid. ObummerCare is not different. It is a tax and it will be treated the same way. They just haven't explained that to anyone yet. Rest assured - they will pull this trick out of the bag when needed and use it to force everyone into an enrollment. By the way, the non-payment "penalty" is a monthly penalty which grows and grows until it reaches the amount that an individual would have had to pay for a Bronze plan. Cute, huh?
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:34 AM
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A couple of tee shirts for you.......



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Old 04-08-2014, 05:54 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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Rick

Yes, "CUTE". I also understand that, just paying the penalty is not the end of it; again, thinking of the premium as a tax, that you haven't paid, you don't JUST pay the penalty, you also pay the tax; so, you have to pay the penalty, but you also have to get the Insurance i.e. 'pay' the original tax the penalty is for.
But, my understanding is the penalty, as well as any interest for not paying, can ONLY be collected by this mechanism of withholding om a return; so, no return, no way to collect. I certainly HOPE thats the case.
And, my wife and I will have to continue to insure we have no 'tax return' coming, year after year, from here on out.
Actually, long term, I am believeing ACA will collapse under its own weight, for the reasons I've previously posted. IF that happens, I should think at some point there will be a 'tax amnesty', for those who have taken the route we are taking.
Grante the OTHER way it COULD go, is they would change the law, to 'close' this 'loophole' we are exploiting, thereby enabling the IRS to collect the penalties and interest, like they do any other.
Its a gamble, we recognise that, and have decided to 'go this way'.

To ME, it doesn't seem possible that O'bummercare can work; either it will collapse, or it will bring down the whole system. The #'s just don't add up, and never have/never will. But then, I never thought it would pass, and never thought the SCOTUS would 'allow' it. One consolation I take is that SCOTUS said, in their ruling, that IF the Premiums (tax) became 'onerous' or the penalty, that they would consider re-visiting the whole issue.

So, what i see happeneing is next year the premiums, even for those with employer plans, will sky-rocket. LOTS of people will face premiums they can't afford, even WITH the 'subsidy'. It will truly be recognised that it IS the "Un-Affordable Care act. Repubs will 'capitalise' on this, to gain the Senate and retain the House, and TRY to use it to gain the WH in 2016. "Odds" are the WH will go Repub, anyway, as we most often go 2 terms with 1 party in WH, then 2 terms with the other. If that happens, they will either repeal, or modify it greatly.

Still wondering WHAT alternatives are proposed or enacted, if in fact ACA 'collapses'. I KNOW what Liberals will propose; Single payor, or "Medicare for EVERYONE!" But since Medicare is going to go 'bankrupt', that doesn't work, without a MASSIVE tax increase.

Maybe a national de-criminalisation of MJ, and tax the be-jesus out of it, and SAYING the tax will go to support the healthcare. Of coarse, IF they did that, the tax $ would go into general fund, and finace pork. Anyway, its going to be interesting, and wife and i are already regularly attending a 'Christian Scientist" church, so we can claim religious exemption. O'bummer doesn't respect religious rights, but he won't be in much longer. Anyway, its going to be interesting to wathc how this 'plays out'. Jim
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:30 AM
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But, my understanding is the penalty, as well as any interest for not paying, can ONLY be collected by this mechanism of withholding from a return; so, no return, no way to collect. I certainly HOPE thats the case.
You haven't said why this is your understanding, but I seriously doubt this tactic will work for anyone. If you have ever filed a return, or have a SS card, then they will wonder why you haven't filed this time around or in future years. That creates a flagged case account, and they check to see if you are deceased or on welfare. If they find you aren't, then they will assume that you are avoiding filing. IRS has unbelievable resources to find you, determine what resources you have, check on whether or not you are earning any income, etc. I'm not quite sure if you are saying that you won't file any tax forms, or if you're meaning to say that you will file the forms but won't be asking for an overpayment to be returned to you since you would figure things out so that there will be a zero or near zero refund. If this second scenario is what you are meaning then that certainly won't stop them from assessing penalties and going after you for penalty payments. They'd probably wait several months until the penalty reaches what the bronze plan payment would have been, and then file a lien against anything of value which you may have.

I'm glad to hear you're doing the Christian Scientist thing, but I'm wondering if you checked to see if you needed to file some form to claim your right to exclusion from participation in ObummerCare based on the religion. Is there such a requirement? I would guess that there is, as it seems quite likely they would have covered that base, but have not looked into it myself since I do have a federal employee insurance plan that meets or exceeds ObummerCare requirements.
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:51 AM
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Realizing that the US dollar is fast becoming worthless, some people are putting more of their assets in the stock market. The stock averages, after all, seem to keep rising. It is probably a trap, because if people stop buying/paying then the profits of these companies will likely collapse. Hard assets seem to be the way to go.
When the US dollar collapses, so will everything that is dollar based, including the stock markets. The resultant crash will be much worse than the so-called Great Depression, and many well to do people will lose everything. You're correct in thinking that hard assets (things which do have a real intrinsic value) are the way to go, as any such items can be used to obtain other items that you may find you will need. The items that will become most valuable in a true crisis will be the items that most other people will be looking for because they weren't very well prepared. Of course if they didn't prepare (and probably 95% of the population won't) then they won't have any hard assets which they can trade with you, so those folks will have no recourse but to attempt to beg, borrow, or steal what you and other preppers do have.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:46 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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Sorry, Rick

Apperently I wasn't clear, its the second one; setting up our 'withholding', (perfectly legally and legitimately) so that at the end of the year, (actually when we file in 2015), we OWE no taxes, but have no return coming.

In researchin this, (as I posted earlier) AFTER the law was passed, (as in "Have to PASS the law, BEFORE we can see whats in it") Rush Limbaugh read the whole thing, (all 26,000 pages), andwas the first, to publically discuss this, on his radio show. His reading of it was that the ONLY way they, (the IRS) can 'collect' the penalty, OR ANY INTEREST BASED ON THE PENALTY, is by witholding the $'s from your income tax return. They CAN'T use liens, sieze bank accounts, etc.

When he first explained this on his show, plenty of Obummer lovers/limbaugh haters jumped on it, to try to dispute it, and everyone who looked at it seems to have, relunctantly agreed with his 'reading' of it.

Can't prove it, but I SUSPECT this is what may have happened, when the law was being drafted;
Our legislators are far too busy soliciting contributions and votes to bother writing Laws, thats what they have STAFFS for; who work in conjunction with lobbiests, who submit 'proposed' legislation, or 'sections' of legislation.

When it came to 'addressing' the penalty, the conversation probably went something like; "O.K., HOW are we going to do this penalty?" "Hey, why not do it the way we do child support, for deadbeat parents? Yeah, just pull that legislation, and copy the wording, that will work! " and, that 'problem' addressed, they went on to another, while some staffer copy/pasted the section from the law on child support. As a researcher, (which I'm not) you can check, and I'd BET the wording is actly the same. And, the wording for child support doesn't have ANY mention of interest; If a 'non-custodial' parent owes 'back-due' child suort, and IF they have $ 'coming' to them, (from 'over-paying' thru 'withholding', the IRS can 'keep' that $, and divert it to go towards the unpaid child support obligation. BUT, there is NO provision for the IRS to access additional interest. OR, for the IRS to use any of its collectiomethods, such as siezing bank accounts, or property, in order to collect the 'back-due' child support, like they would use to collect unpaid tax 'obligations'.
And, to address an earlier point; YES,there ARE people injail for failing to pay chi support, bu the IRS didn'tput them there.

I also suspect part of this was a 'blindness'; the Legislators who's staffs were writing ACA were Dems/Liberals, and so we can assume so are their staffs.
They thought they were doing a GOOD thing, something 'momentus', and 'historic' (This is a bIG F*cking DEAL! as Bitem said). They really didn't think 'most' people would OBJECT to 'going along' with ACA.

So, the penalty is like the letters for Jury duty. In RED, they quote the statute saying you can be jailed or fined for failing to report. Reading it, it SOUNDS like 'you better do it, or else!' In reality, (at least in my 'juridiction') they DON'T send the letters 'return reciept requested', (too expensive?)therefore there is no way they prove you er GOT the notice.

NOT unless you comply, by calling a phone #, where they record you 'checking in', that is.

Its a common tactic of Gov't., to make threats they cannot possibly carry out, 'banking' that most peoiple will comply.

So, if RUSH is right, AND THEY FOLLOW THE LAW AS WRITTEN, (granted, thats a BIG 'if') and they don't change the law, as long as I and mine continue, here on out, to insure we have no return coming, there should be no way for the IRS to enforce the penalty.

And yes,there WILL be a form to file, 'requesting' a religious exemption. I'm not sure the form has even been printed yet, and given the degree of 'respect' Obummer has shown the churches, not sure how much 'good' that will do.

As I said, this is a GAMBLE. I and mine are 'litigation proof', in that we have 'hard assets', but nothing that could or would be 'siezed' in a lawsuit, and if we close our 'bank accounts' (credit union,actually), the IRS would probably have to spend more to try to collect, than they would get.

I'm HOPING, of coarse, that it won't come to that. Im 'betting' that I will end up 'winning' on this 'gamble', and am, I believe, prepared to accept the consequences if I lose. Perhaps, at some point, going in to IRS and reaching some kind of a 'settlement', which is like a 'plan "Z". I REALLY doubt ANYONE is going to be jailed, for ACA non-compliance.

When the #'s are crunched, and A) peoples premiums, (both those on ACA plans, and those on employer plans) skyrocket, and B) ACCURATE CBO estimates are done, taking into account the re-imbursements to Insurance companies, subsidies to policy holders under ACA, permanent 'dropping' of the employer mandate,etc. (in other words, when we see what ACA is REALLY going to 'cost' taxpayers) and stories of the consequences to individual families, there will be a 'hue and cry', to abolish/replace.

Yet another 'problem' built into this abomination of a law; proponents have been 'touting' the 'children up to 26 can stay on their parents plan', from day one. And yet we also know, in order for the #'s to 'work' it is these very same youngsters who the ACA NEEDS to have sign up, in order to offset the 'older/sicker' people. Boy, was THAT ever counter-productive!

In addition,its ONE thing for young workers to gradually become aware that the $ taken out of their checks, for Social Security is going to pay for current recipients. Its another thing entirely to flat out TELL them, in effect, we KNOW your Young, and Healthy, and are going to use less healthcare than your going to be paying for (in premiums) but we NEED you to do it anyway, (even tho, being young, and just starting in the workforce, your income is low) in order to 'pay for' the older/sicker workers. NOT exactly a great 'sales pitch'!

And then there is the low hispanic participation. Reality is, if it wasn't for the immigration issue, MOST hispanics are 'Conservative' and even libertarian; its in their culture. And so, there are all sorts of reasons why 'they' as a group, are 'under-participating', is the point.

I really believe the ACA is 'going down', and its a question of when, not if, and a question of 'what do we do, then?
But then I BELIEVE that, because WANT to believe that, so we'll just have to see. Jim
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:51 PM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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On the lighter side......

Today there was an amusing video clip of a woman in Las Vegas who threw a shoe at Hillie Clinton while she was giving a speech.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the entire audience didn't follow the woman's lead and begin pelting Hillie with shoes, and whatever else was available. It would have been reminiscent of the hordes of Egyptians that threw shoes and tomatoes at Hillie's motorcade, while chanting "Monica, Monica!" and "Irhal, Clinton!" (Get out, Clinton!) as she was leaving Egypt after a visit to Alexandria. See that episode here.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:02 PM
dutchdivco dutchdivco is offline
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Rick

Good to see you 'active' in the forum, again. Just to reviit something from earlier, 'approach 1', which I'm not using. Actually, there are a # of 'legitimate' reasons for NOT filing a tax return, and JUST not filing for 1 or several years, and then filing again, IN AND OF ITSELF, doesn't 'set off' alarms @ IRS.
Person could be long-term unemployed, out of the country, in Jail, in a COMA, or deceased. WHEN you file, after several years of NOT filing, they MAY check your SS records, to see if you made any 'taxable' income for the years you didn't file, but I'm not even 'sure' of that.

The IRS LARGELY works by taking the information YOU give them, and relying on most people THINKING that they have far more information than they actually have. Its mostly an 'honor' system. I know of a # of situations in which people didn't file for a # of years, and then filed again,and the IRS didn't conduct ANY kind of 'investigation, or even send a letter saying "where have you been, and what have you been doing, for the last "X" years.

They just aren't 'set up' that way. I myself went a couple of years without filing, earlier in my life. When I filed again, there was no curiosity expressed by IRS.

Am I the only one that sees an almost perfect parrallel between whats happened in Ukraine, and gun control? Big powers, (U.S., EU, and even ironically Russia) said "Oh,you can give up your NUKES, WE will 'guarantee' your souverenity", and so, naively, they did. Years later, Russia 'threatens soverenity, and US and EU say, "Oh, well,...er,...YES, we did SAY that, but, er,...actually, we didn't MEAN that! We'll give you economic aid, but as for defending yourself, well,....your on your own!" Any doubt in anyones mind, if Ukraine had KEPT their Nukes, that they wouldn't be now feeling threatened with invasion by Russia?

In addition to the Nat'l news story about the kid who attacked his classmates with knives, we have 2 local stories involving knives. One is a group of 4-5 men, who went around town, doing armed robberies with knives. 4 people robbed, one in the hospital (stabbed). Other was also a kid, who took a 'kitchen' knife to school, no one actually stabbed, he's in custody.And yet have yet to hear any efforts to BAN knives. Or even a recognition that these stories confirm whats been said all along, that GUNS aren't the problem.

Got a 'letter' from Rand Paul, saying in next few weeks, Senate is going to take up ratification of U.N. Small arms treaty, and saying how it would compromise second amendment. (and asking for $,of coarse.)
And even tho Sebelius is leaving, I've heard there is an effort being made, to change the Laws/regulations, that currently allow U.S. citisens to purchase Rx. medications from overseas. Are these just 'last ditch efforts by Dems/libs to enact parts of their agenda, before they loose control of the Senate? Or (in the case of the drug law) a 'fundraising' operation, i.e get campaign contributions for submitting a bill, from drug companies?

I can't see either passing, but then I never thought ACA would actually make it into law, either. Jim
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:08 PM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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In every US state's cities, towns, and villages, there is a common sight that we see as we drive by a school zone. It is a yellow caution sign warning drivers that there is a school zone ahead and showing simple black stick-figure "students" to warn drivers that actual students may be crossing the road on their way to or from the school. We have all seen these signs, right?

Well, what if these signs were replaced with something like the sign shown below, which makes it clear that such children, as well as young adult college students, are not really going to a school to be educated, but rather to be indoctrinated? And if parents understood this, how many would then pull their offspring out of these "schools," and refuse to pay any amount of property tax or tuition fee that supports those institutions?

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"Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:31 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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FILE – In this March 8, 2012 file phoo, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia speaks at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Conn. Scalia says the nation’s highest court was wrong 70 years ago to uphold the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II. But he told students and faculty at the University of Hawaii’s law school on Monday, Feb. 3, 2014, the case came during a time of panic about the war. Scalia says he wouldn’t be surprised if the court ruled similarly during another conflict.
Justice Scalia: You Are ‘Kidding Yourself’ If You Think World War II-Style Internment Camps Will Never Happen Again | TheBlaze.com


Published on May 3, 2012
On May Day in 1971, the US Army rounded up approximately 7,000 protesters into a stadium in Washington, DC that they treated like a make-shift prison camp. Have things changed in the past 40 years? Now a Department of Defense document has been leaked to the Web that details "Internment and Resettlement Operations." The manual outlines policies for processing detainees in internment camps domestically and abroad and how to "re-educate" unruly activists. Alex Jones, host of the Alex Jones Show, joins us to find out what this means to people across the globe.

Alex Jones: Pentagon prepares re-education camps for political activists - YouTube


Al
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:58 PM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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Nevada protesters stand their ground against BLM thugs

THE BUNDY RANCH PROTESTERS STAND THEIR GROUND AGAINST THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT FEDS
The federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has been causing a lot of turmoil in Clark County, Nevada, by driving out cattle ranchers who are said to be on land where a "protected" species called the Desert Tortoise has been put on the endangered species list. One of these ranchers is Clive Bundy, and he is the last rancher to remain in the face of BLM threats to remove him. Bundy's family has been grazing cattle on the same publicly owned ranch property since 1877, and they used to have more than 50 neighboring ranchers who did the same thing. Now the BLM wants to round up and remove Bundy's herd of about 900 cattle and claim that the public land is federal land under their "protection."

The BLM recently showed up at the Bundy ranch with agents wielding tasers and K-9 attack dogs, along with their "ranger" vehicles and some heavy equipment including a dump truck and backhoes. A group of concerned citizen protesters also showed up and stood their ground against the BLM in a showdown, ultimately driving them off, this video shows, but not before some of the protesters were knocked to the ground, threatened by BLM agents and their attack dogs, and tasered.

I'm sure that BLM will undoubtedly return to carry out their agenda, most likely with additional troops dressed in riot gear, and perhaps an armored vehicle equipped with a sound blaster and some other crowd dispersing options. It would be great if the local sheriff's department, and/or other Nevada state officials, would show up to defend Bundy and escort the BLM to the Nevada state line, but that probably won't happen, though certainly some lip service appears to be taking place. Senator Dean Heller of Nevada claims that he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn’t be penalized by an “overreaching” agency. And Nevada governor Brian Sandoval said that “an atmosphere of intimidation,” is resulting from the roundup and that he believed Constitutional rights were being trampled.

Incidentlally, the total grazing area being argued over is about 1200 square miles. Our Constitution clearly states that the total land area which the federal government may own is to be limited to an area not to exceed a ten mile square, which would be an area of 100 square miles. That is the maximum allowable, and yet the federal government claims to own 650 million acres in the US, which is nearly 30% of the total land area of the United States. Furthermore, they claim to own, control, or "manage" fully 80% of the land in Nevada! Is there anyone who doesn't see something that is very wrong with this, and with the constant push to drive the People from their public and private lands in order to seize ever more land area, meanwhile forcing the rightful land owners or users to live in crowded slum cities where there is no self-sufficiency and everyone must rely upon "government" to provide their needs?

The question now is who will stand up for the rights of Nevadans, other than a band of vocal but peaceful protesters. That question may be getting an answer from militia members in several states who are vowing to come to Bundy's aid and confront the BLM with threats of force if necessary. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out. Bundy says that the BLM has no authority to do what they are doing, since his family's ancestral grazing rights were granted long before the BLM existed. The BLM claims that Bundy owes them over a million dollars in delinquent "grazing fees," and that his cattle herd must be removed as it endangers the federally protected Desert Tortoise.
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"Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

Last edited by rickoff; 04-11-2014 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:11 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Agenda 21

Yet over the last 25 years, 68 percent of America's National Parks, Preserves and Monuments have been designated as a United Nations ...

Ninety percent of the New World Project is located on private land and the remainder is in a National Forest.

The Globalization of United States Domestic Land

In Alabama, Senate Bill 477 was recently passed unanimously in both houses, barring the state from taking over private property without due process, thereby preventing Agenda 21 from infiltrating their state lines. It reads, “[t]he State of Alabama and all political subdivisions may not adopt or implement policy recommendations that deliberately or inadvertently infringe or restrict private property rights without due process, as may be required by policy recommendations originating in, or traceable to ‘Agenda 21,’”.

Hopefully other states can mirror Alabama’s determined nature in passing their Anti- Agenda 21 legislation.

Alabama Fights a UN Land Grab - Townhall.com Staff - Page full

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