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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:53 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Shorting generator-coils

This is so interesting i figure it needs a thread of its own!

By shorting a generator-coil you get nice spikes that can be captured (or just light a neon-bulb as below).
This is also reported in another thread:
Charge from slow motion

Its the third circuit in this picture:


I really think there is a great gain in this.
The coil can be shorted at least two times per passing magnet.

If anyone has a generator-setup where this can be tested and compared to when not shorting the coil,
i would be very interested in hearing the results of the comparison.

/Hob
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:13 PM
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Here is a first video on this:
YouTube - Shorting generator coils part 1

/Hob
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:07 PM
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A video showing the difference in output:
YouTube - Shorting generator-coils part 2

/Hob
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:48 PM
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I will try and find movies I made about 2 or 3 years ago. Basically it was a permanent magnets generator and I was using MOSFETs and function generator signal source triggered by opto-reflective switch to get about 2000 cycles when one magnet would pass the coil. I didn't see any gain in that- just additional losses in MOSFETs.

However I think I still have those movies somewhere. If I find them I will send them to you if you think that would help you.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:04 PM
redeagle redeagle is offline
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The output of the spikes depend alot on the voltage of the battery you are trying to charge with the system. If the battery voltage is below the peak output from the generator then the coil will have drag on it. if the voltage is above the output of the generator in standard mode. the only drags on th system is what is inherent in the generator ie coils attraction/ friction and the brief period while the coil is shorted. In the same thought if the generator can put any current to the battery without the monentary short then the voltage of the spike will be lower because the magnetic field created by the flow of current could not fully collapse. Air coils are good generators to test the theories since they already eliminate coil attraction of the magnets.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:22 PM
kent_elyue kent_elyue is offline
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Does anyone know *exactly* when it is that the spike occurs? Does it happen just as the reed switch closes (make), or when it re-opens (break)? I suspect the latter, but I have no way to test for sure.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:59 PM
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Voltage "spike" occurs when switch opens.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:46 PM
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Spark

Do you know if your reed switch is sparking when it opens?

YouTube - purple flashes on the scope
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:57 AM
cody cody is offline
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I posted this info in another thread but it got dropped so ill put it back up again. A few observations i made while experimenting with this are the following:
The coil behaves exactly like pulsing a bedini coil, you need to adjust pulse duration to hit the resonant impedance points in the coil. When you do this, you get more output and less drag on the prime mover. You can also use a variable capacitor in series with the short to hit the sweet spot. Or just adjust your rotor speed. You will need something to turn your generator wheel at a constant speed to play with these variables and notice the effects, and it may be hard to adjust pulse duration with reed switches, but you could do it with 2 of them.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:20 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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In EVGRAY group, there have been a extensive talking about this procedure at obtaining serious power.

user KoneHeadx, has bult and suggests the building of such machine. He has not clarify if it is OU, but he says a lot of gain.

He has been answered many questions of mine and suggests that the best way to harvest the resulting spike from passive generating coils is as following:

At the peak of voltage build-up on the coil (unshorted) there is a shorting circuit usind SPDT switches. The short is very brief, otherwise if considerable currrent runs LENZ drag kicks in.

The sensing of the voltage peak could be achieved by stationary ways, as a reed switch or a neon sensing circuit via a voltage divider. The latter aproach offer lots of advantages since rotors with speed tend to alter the voltage peak possition due to magnetic field distortion effect (see wikipedia), unless adjustable reed switch is applied, but again its difficult to say how the short should endure.

....
KoneHeadx, supports that caps could be charged this way, and by suitable uf value of caps voltage stored via a single pulse could be x20 than coils voltage.

concluding i have not built this kind of device and is on my do-to-it list.

Baroutologos
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:12 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty View Post
I will try and find movies I made about 2 or 3 years ago. Basically it was a permanent magnets generator and I was using MOSFETs and function generator signal source triggered by opto-reflective switch to get about 2000 cycles when one magnet would pass the coil. I didn't see any gain in that- just additional losses in MOSFETs.

However I think I still have those movies somewhere. If I find them I will send them to you if you think that would help you.
Yes, that would be interesting.
Do you have the schematics too?

/Hob
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
Do you know if your reed switch is sparking when it opens?

YouTube - purple flashes on the scope
I have not seen any sparks on the reed-switch.

/Hob
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cody View Post
I posted this info in another thread but it got dropped so ill put it back up again. A few observations i made while experimenting with this are the following:
The coil behaves exactly like pulsing a bedini coil, you need to adjust pulse duration to hit the resonant impedance points in the coil. When you do this, you get more output and less drag on the prime mover. You can also use a variable capacitor in series with the short to hit the sweet spot. Or just adjust your rotor speed. You will need something to turn your generator wheel at a constant speed to play with these variables and notice the effects, and it may be hard to adjust pulse duration with reed switches, but you could do it with 2 of them.
You're right, there is a lot to experiment with this simple circuit.

/Hob
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:17 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baroutologos View Post
In EVGRAY group, there have been a extensive talking about this procedure at obtaining serious power.

user KoneHeadx, has bult and suggests the building of such machine. He has not clarify if it is OU, but he says a lot of gain.

He has been answered many questions of mine and suggests that the best way to harvest the resulting spike from passive generating coils is as following:

At the peak of voltage build-up on the coil (unshorted) there is a shorting circuit usind SPDT switches. The short is very brief, otherwise if considerable currrent runs LENZ drag kicks in.

The sensing of the voltage peak could be achieved by stationary ways, as a reed switch or a neon sensing circuit via a voltage divider. The latter aproach offer lots of advantages since rotors with speed tend to alter the voltage peak possition due to magnetic field distortion effect (see wikipedia), unless adjustable reed switch is applied, but again its difficult to say how the short should endure.

....
KoneHeadx, supports that caps could be charged this way, and by suitable uf value of caps voltage stored via a single pulse could be x20 than coils voltage.

concluding i have not built this kind of device and is on my do-to-it list.

Baroutologos
This is exactly where i got it from, KoneHeadx is very kind and informative.

/Hob
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
Yes, that would be interesting.
Do you have the schematics too?
I would have to look it up but it's rather simple so I guess I can draw it for you again. It does use reflective opto-switch and MOSFET drivers though. They are not hard to get on Digikey (if you're from the US) or from Farnell (if you're in Europe).
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:23 AM
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elias elias is offline
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Hello

I have been able to charge 330uF capacitors up to 250 volts in less than 3 or 4 seconds, by using this method, I use a hall switch to do this. I have thought that this may be a way to extract drag-less energy from the generator coils, but I have not yet completed my experiments.

Elias
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:06 AM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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SSG-mod

I made a modification to the SSG this morning as in the schematics below.

While I couldn't get my particular setup to work with the additional coil on the same core as the other two
(as a trifiler, i guess the timing wouldn't agree),
it did work well when the new coil was on its own.

The setup was very rude so it was hard to trim,
but the charging battery got much higher voltage
and the running battery a bit lower.
If there was a total gain i couldn't tell.

/Hob
Attached Images
File Type: png ssg-mod-2.png (4.6 KB, 65 views)

Last edited by nilrehob : 10-13-2009 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:15 PM
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Hi nilrehob!

May i suggest something??
I think it's gonna work..
Does your secound coil is timed with (or aligned) with your pulsed coil??
If it's timed just put a jumper from the base of your pulsed coil and shorted
the second coil with another 2n3055...
If you dont see what i'm talking about i can make a schematic..

Just a taugh!!

Alain D
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:01 AM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Originally Posted by peper10 View Post
If you dont see what i'm talking about i can make a schematic..
Yes, a schematic would be good, to avoid any misunderstanding.

/Hob
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:40 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Hi Hob,

most excellent experiments, topic and video demo ... top notch my friend.

I would suggest to install a dc motor to your magnet wheel this way you can get consistency and much extra data like monitoring the amp draw of the motor will tell you if shorting the coil is creating more or less work for the motor.

If it's less then you have good reason to be happy ... if it draws more then try to see of you can find a spot that is more advantageous and still getting the boost.

Let me know if I can help, since this is right up my alley.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:35 AM
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Hard Time with graph!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
Yes, a schematic would be good, to avoid any misunderstanding.

/Hob
ssg-mod-3.PNG
Hi Hob!!
I finally made a schematic from yours...
Where i mark L2 and L1 is just to make them mark as different coils...
So lets say that L2 is aligned on one magnet L1 is also aligned on another magnet...

As the L2 coil fired the pulse at the same time it shorted L1...

Not verry hard to understand is it??

If you have other question i'll tried to make a vid.
My regards

Alain D
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:19 AM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Hi Hob,

most excellent experiments, topic and video demo ... top notch my friend.

I would suggest to install a dc motor to your magnet wheel this way you can get consistency and much extra data like monitoring the amp draw of the motor will tell you if shorting the coil is creating more or less work for the motor.

If it's less then you have good reason to be happy ... if it draws more then try to see of you can find a spot that is more advantageous and still getting the boost.

Let me know if I can help, since this is right up my alley.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Then you might be interested in Newmans commutator at page 5:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Newman2.pdf

Many i have seen who claim the have made i Newman-motor, but i still haven't seen anyone implementing his commutator which, if i interpret his text correctly, not only pulse his coil many short times where others only pulse it once, but also shortens the coil after each pulse.

/Hob
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peper10 View Post
Attachment 3849
Hi Hob!!
I finally made a schematic from yours...
Where i mark L2 and L1 is just to make them mark as different coils...
So lets say that L2 is aligned on one magnet L1 is also aligned on another magnet...

As the L2 coil fired the pulse at the same time it shorted L1...

Not verry hard to understand is it??

If you have other question i'll tried to make a vid.
My regards

Alain D
Thanks!

I'm not sure it will work though, the base of the second transistor will be floating in respect to its emitter. If i'm correct, for a transistor to go on there has to be a current going into base and out from emitter and back around again in a closed loop. Or are you trying to do an Avramenko-plug kind of thing? That would be cool. But I don't understand what would be the improvement as my circuit actually did work, i just didn't put any effort in tuning it or anything. Please explain.

/Hob
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:42 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Spacing your magnets at an appropriate distance will give you higher yield. The space in between the magnets gets charge from the curled field heading to the opposite pole. This charge is also not associated with any drag.

(See attached image)
A. The correct spacing.
B. To close
C. To far.

Matt
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MagSpacing.jpg (41.8 KB, 25 views)
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:09 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Hi everyone,

I just tested this also and found the same effect as Hob has but the difference in my setup is I have a motor turning the magnets so I can monitor the current draw to see if more work has to go in when the coil is shorted.

Unfortunately even at the most ideal switching position it drew more current. So you have an increase in output but at a cost of more work needed to turn the magnets.

It is an interesting effect and I think it deserves more study. Who knows what would happen at higher RPM and coil length, as I have worked and experimented with Thane Heins on his Perepiteia generator which needs a certain coil length at a certain magnet frequency for the effect to occur.

Thanks Hob for sharing your findings.

Luc
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Spacing your magnets at an appropriate distance will give you higher yield. The space in between the magnets gets charge from the curled field heading to the opposite pole. This charge is also not associated with any drag.

(See attached image)
A. The correct spacing.
B. To close
C. To far.

Matt
I tried N-S-N-S without spacing at all in another experiment using std ssg-circuit if i remember correctly.
The coil covered N-S and a half N.
High speed and charge but also high input unfortunately, but i didn't have time to tune it until another idea entered my head.
Lots of ideas, less time it seems.
Rather confusing actually

/Hob
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Hi everyone,

I just tested this also and found the same effect as Hob has but the difference in my setup is I have a motor turning the magnets so I can monitor the current draw to see if more work has to go in when the coil is shorted.

Unfortunately even at the most ideal switching position it drew more current. So you have an increase in output but at a cost of more work needed to turn the magnets.
Yes, so it seems, not sure if there even is a net gain.
Anyway, shorting generator coils a cool thing to do if rotation is slow, like a river-generator or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
It is an interesting effect and I think it deserves more study. Who knows what would happen at higher RPM and coil length, as I have worked and experimented with Thane Heins on his Perepiteia generator which needs a certain coil length at a certain magnet frequency for the effect to occur.

Thanks Hob for sharing your findings.

Luc
I didn't know about Heins coils and magnets.
Do you have any writing on Heins work to share?

/Hob
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:05 PM
cody cody is offline
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Thane Heins is sitting on a golden egg. Although it dosnt involve shorting the coils, i believe that the principle could be used for shorter length coils with the shorting technique, i think you just have to get the pulse frequency up above that impedance point and getting the switching in the right spot(probably a little before and after tdc) But you probably will not get the HV spikes with that technique, its got a different nature to it.

Last edited by cody : 10-13-2009 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
I tried N-S-N-S without spacing at all in another experiment using std ssg-circuit if i remember correctly.
The coil covered N-S and a half N.
The reason for the high draw is due to the fact that you used a magnet in the middle. You don't need one you just need the correct spacing.
Generally if the magnet is 1 inch my core will be 1 inch and the magnets will be spaced 1.5 inch. I drive both sides of the coils. Magnets are NEO's usually

Its just little trick for just a little extra AC power. Nothing written in stone. But it turns out potential.

Quote:
Unfortunately even at the most ideal switching position it drew more current. So you have an increase in output but at a cost of more work needed to turn the magnets.
Catch the current going through the motor instead of grounding it.

Matt
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:17 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
I didn't know about Heins coils and magnets.
Do you have any writing on Heins work to share?

/Hob
Hi Hob,

here's the link to to the OU forum topic, you can read till you drop : Thane Heins Perepiteia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cody View Post
Thane Heins is sitting on a golden egg. Although it dosnt involve shorting the coils,
cody,

what do you mean he does not short his coils this is how he first found the effect and it is still exactly what he does, however he does not need any specific timing, he just shorts the coils (which are very long windings) and the prime mover will start to accelerate like if there was no drag on the magnets from the steel cores.

To extract power he used a transformer that the primary has next to no resistance (short) and uses the power from the secondary.


Luc
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