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  #781  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:11 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
During the half cycle the current is blocked, when there is a capacitor in line - the cap will charge from the High frequency resonant coils - as it would if you were using a diode. When the other side is depleted the current stops flowing allowing the freshly charged cap to flow through the transformer and reverse biasing the opposite side allowing the other cap to charge.

Basically what you have is a mag amp being biased on both coils. Similar to a diode with a transistor to release the energy at the appropriate time... by using the transformer you actually get a bit of a boost as the change occurs.
I wrote up the Hendershot Generator as a Magnetic Amplifier and the quote above cleared up some things for me. File attached. I'm still not clear on the role of the top and middle basket weave coils unless they are somehow acting as chokes but I just don't see that in the schematic.

Time to build.
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File Type: pdf HendershotGeneratorAsMagneticAmplifier.pdf (113.9 KB, 45 views)
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  #782  
Old 10-08-2014, 01:33 AM
dragon dragon is offline
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Nice analysis thx - nicely presented ! Now prove it right or wrong . The mag amps - before they were mag amps - provided useful alternatives for things that weren't around in the day - Amplifiers, regulators, relay alternatives and lots of other things.

Morpher: I admire your work on the hendershot - it would be nice to have seen some of his beginning projects that led him to his final builds - a path to follow of sorts. It became an obsession that I had to get away from... but I find myself utilizing the knowledge in many other projects.

Take note of his toy airplane motor - specifically the collector... you'll notice it appears to be a magnet with iron plates on each side - on the end a propeller, fan or other mechanism that might toggle easily in the wind. I believe this was a means to short/distort/alter the magnetic flux at the oscillator core. A generator. When there is a high frequency voltage flowing through an iron cored coil arrangement ( such as his honeycomb coil) it doesn't show up as useable energy... when you move a magnet or iron bar in front of the core both energies become useable by slowing it down...

Back to other projects ....
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  #783  
Old 10-14-2014, 10:16 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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More on the transformers

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
I believe the transformers act as a magnetically controlled bi-directional diode. When current flows through one side the other side can only pass current in one direction which allows the caps to charge. Once the current slows from that direction the other side becomes active creating a directional flow opposite to the first thus charging the opposite caps.

Very similar to the magnetic amplifiers, we are "gating" the directional flow like a transistor but with the ability to reverse directions.
I think you nailed this one. While I'm waiting on parts I found more info on the "Vertical Oscillator Type" transformers. They have an air gap between the E and I laminations.

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  #784  
Old 10-14-2014, 10:20 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Found another part missing from the schematics.

Well, most of them anyway.
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  #785  
Old 10-21-2014, 03:46 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Basket weave coil winding direction

All the parts are in and I've done most everything but assembly. Is there anything definitive on the direction of winding the top, middle, and bottom coils as well as the capcoil coil on the outside of the bottom coil? Are all coils on a single capcoil wound in the same direction?

Are both capcoils wound in the same direction or opposite directions?

For example, if I have my roll of wire sitting in the center of the pegs with the loose end sticking out between the pegs nearest me, do I bend the wire to the left or right to go around the next peg?

I've looked at pictures, forum posts, and videos until I'm sick of it and haven't found anything definitive. I've seen it done both ways in videos.

Any one have an opinion and, if so, what is that opinion based upon?

I'm continuing with other work on it in the mean time.
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  #786  
Old 10-21-2014, 05:48 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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It's probably not wise to replicate someone else's failures as you will end up where they did - including my attempt.

It seems the only component's that crossed over to from paper to paper was the basket coils and transformers - everything else has been altered and rearranged as a best idea or guess.

I wound the basket coils all the same direction, both identical - right or wrong, that was my choice at the time. The wire connections can be reversed for further exploration.
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  #787  
Old 10-21-2014, 10:44 PM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Basketweave

Thx1128, dragon,
My apologies for not responding earlier.
Thankyou for your dialogue so far as it is most helpful to see some logical variation in thought.
We went into the wind direction and believe it to be stated somewhere but fails me exactly as to where at this time.
I wound mine, standing in front, by going to the right, around the rear and back in on the left and this is the same on all winds including the last L4 over L3.
I have detail on the inductance and resistance for each of the winds.
When you get to winding your capacitor would suggest using tin plated steel out of an old can as I think this is what Lester used as he complained about it rusting and that is exactly what tin on steel does.
I used Aluminium but only tape joined where the tin could be solidly soldered to make a circle for the former but may help to paint with a thin Estapol just to stop the rust.
This is my next planned modification when I can manage the time.
Have shots here of a capacitor build including the caps used which turned out to be very close to Lester's dimensions give or take just a few mms.
Including the capacitance at 6,800 pf and can manage that figure using paddlepop sticks as pressure tuners so that both basketweaves read the same value.
People seem to stop here in their builds but is another developed skill and fun to do.





Cable used is silicon speaker cable (Studio Acoustics 16 gauge SA1630) as this fitted best around the wooden dowels - the 14 was too large.
A dream to wind and you can retain the line without twisting.

Am busy with Steven Mark's TPU in two versions, his expansive and my contractive but driving with Vacuum Tubes.
Have displayed progress at the Energetic Eric Dollard Forum but somewhat dismayed by the lack of interest.

Eric Dollard

Will attempt to follow your progress and advise if I may be able to assist in anyway.
Good luck with your build.

Smokey
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Last edited by David G Dawson; 10-21-2014 at 10:52 PM. Reason: pf value
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  #788  
Old 10-27-2014, 04:50 AM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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re: turn direction

Yes the turn direction.
I have given this a lot of thought, and here is what I came up with.

Watching Stan Deyo's youtube lectures, he comes to a discussion about how UFOs fly in a "supportive" configuration where all of them SPIN in the same direction in formation. This creates a stable flying configuration. Similarly, I have seen a youtube video where this guy set up about 50 or more magnetic tops on jars, all spinning in the same direction. They appeared to spin perpetually, each top supporting its neighbor top, and so on.

Now if we think about the fields created by the Hendershot coils, they are going to oscillate with an AC current, each cylinder having a toroid-shaped magnetic lines of force around the cylinder. Those magnetic lines will spin clock-wise around the cylinder, and then counter-clock-wise.

Hendershot didn't appear to use Diodes, NOR pulsed DC, so I think we can rule out that the cylinders had an air gap. So unlike Stan Deyo's wedding cake coil notion, with pulsed DC to produce a SPIN to a cylinder-washer with an air gap (Lorentz-O), I would think Hendershot's coil is instead a classic transformer, using the coffee-can as the core.

So we have to visualize what these spinning magnetic toroids would BEST do when next to each other. There is mutual inductance to consider.
Do we want it to be supportive, or "bucking"?

I had also consider that 2 is an "unstable" geometry, and 3 coils might have been better if "supportive" mutual spin is wanted. Yet I recall reading someone making the case that the horseshoe magnet-bar-solenoid arrangement is the 3rd cylinder -- essentially.
These would all need to be placed onto the flat surface so that they are equidistant, forming a equilateral triangle.

I have some "crude" experiments that have shown to me that the horseshoe magnet-bar-soilenoid device will BEND the fields of the horseshoe magnet LEFT and then RIGHT, and back again at the two cylinders. By doing so, you can exploit a MAGNETIC field that was already there from the magnet "FOR FREE", but move it using very little energy. It extends out quite far if your magnet is strong, but takes very little energy to CUT via the solenoids and bar. Or another way to think of this is that the solenoids, when activated, will ENHANCE one pole, and DEGRADE the other pole of the magnet. Thus most of the field lines are going to only ONE side. The BAR further bends the filed to the LEFT or RIGHT.

This creates a situation where the coils don't have to move, and the magnet doesn't have to move, but the magnetic field DOES move.
You need something to be moving to create the "generating" effect.
It seems counter intuitive that nothing is physically is moving here, but there is the magnetic field from the magnet, unseen by the human eye, that is made to move in the presence of the two "pick up" coils.

Another way to imagine this is the following.
Suppose you had two wheels mounted horizontally on two polls.
Now imagine you face them and with a hand on each wheel,
you make them both start spinning clock-wise (as viewed from the top).
Now, you grab them to stop them, and then make them spin counter-clock-wise together. You stop them again, and go clock-wise again.

This would probably be EASIER to do to stop both wheels, and then attempt to get them to spin in opposite directions, only to stop them, and then switch each of their directions, and so forth. There is a gyroscopic effect to consider. Two spinning wheels going opposite directions will degrade the movement of each wheel faster.

So using this thought experiment, and trusting it,
I would think it makes more sense to have each coil in the Hendershot device, create SPIN in the same direction, when the same signal is applied, so as to be supportive configuration.

It is a shame that such details of wiring direction appear to be lost with respect to this invention.
The wiring direction may be important for the solenoids facing the horseshoe magnet too.
Hendershot was not afraid of unwiring some previously wired device,
such as solenoids from an old telphone, and then re-winding everything
himself.
I do think, though, that the basic idea with the solenoids is to simply
have ONE pole of the magnet enhanced by one pole of the solenoid, and the other pole of the magnet degraded, and then to switch polarity, and so on, to move, with subtle power, a LARGER magnetic field from the magnet.
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  #789  
Old 10-27-2014, 05:33 AM
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Earth's Dynamo

The dynamo theory for the Earth suggests that the inner core of our planet is producing a very large magnetic field that extends out and protects the Earth from solar radiation, etc.

Wikipedia states that "the equations for the geodynamo are enormously difficult to solve...For decades, theorists were confined to kinematic dynamo models... fluid motion chosen in advance...trying different flow geometries and seeing whether they could sustain a dynamo."

Now suppose you could make a device that could tap just a small "portion" of the Earth's dynamo. There is a HUGE fluid moving from the planet. The field itself it measured in microTeslas, however. This is a tiny, insignificant field, yet strong enough to move a compass. It does seem odd that something created by something as large as the Earth's core, would measure such a tiny field strength.

Suppose what is important, for generation, is not the "local" field strength, per se, but some means of exploiting the fluid motion.

Another thought experiment. Tesla has a patent for a fountain. A small little motor at the bottom of the fountain, using low-power, can spin up a vortex in a column of water. As the vortex grows in strength, the water level rises and spills over the edge of the fountain. The water falls down into basin, where it can find its way back to the column. The fountain appears to be conveying lots of energy from the falling water. Gravity has contributed to this power. Tesla was able to PUSH water up by shaping it into a vortex, with a anti-vortex of air in the center.

Imagine how you would design such a fountain using electro-magnetism as your "fluid", and the Earth's magnetic fields as your "gravity".

Might it not be possible to influence the "fluid" you set up in motion with low power, using the Earth's field?
No laws of physics need be violated here. We just need to set up
the right circumstances, the right geometry, and have a good understanding of EM fluid dynamics.
We need "models" of how the Earth's dynamo can influence
"human-sized" machines.
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  #790  
Old 10-27-2014, 05:58 AM
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toroidal magnetic field repels particles

Charged particle trajectories in the presence of a toroidal magnetic field on a Schwarzschild background

Abstract:
"Trajectories of a single charged particle in the presence of toroidal magnetic fields superposed on the Schwarzschild background geometry have been obtained, and it is shown that the toroidal field repels the particles and in particular the incoming ones get ejected in jet-like trajectories".

---

So, here is a thought.
Suppose you have a cylinder shaped coil producing a toroidal magnetic field around the cylinder.
Suppose also, that the particles are not repeled, but actually are sucked in, take a TRIP around the toroid, spiraling around the field lines, only to be repelled later based on their initial trajectory in, and their finding an "escape" at some weak point in the field.

Now, let us also suppose we had a "plate" capacitor in the form of a cylinder INSIDE the cylinder coil, providing yet another "escape" for the incoming particles. The particles might find the capacitor is the path of least resistance to escape the magnetic field line.

Might it not make sense, therefore, to have a cylinder capacitor INSIDE your cylinder coil to "harvest" the charges of incoming particles?

One problem with Tesla's large rectangular metal plate for receiving radiant energy, is that it has to be physically big.
What if, you could instead, set up a spinning toroidal magnetic field, with essentially a vortex shaped glide-path for incoming particles?
They will spiral down, in a vortex pattern, into the toroid, and then out the other side -- unless "caught" by the inner capacitor.
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  #791  
Old 10-27-2014, 11:59 AM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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I had also consider that 2 is an "unstable" geometry, and 3 coils might have been better if "supportive" mutual spin is wanted. Yet I recall reading someone making the case that the horseshoe magnet-bar-solenoid arrangement is the 3rd cylinder -- essentially.
These would all need to be placed onto the flat surface so that they are equidistant, forming a equilateral triangle.
The image is from "From the Archives of Lester J. Hendershot" by Mark Hendershot. It's the only photo I know of that shows a working Hendershot generator. No equilateral triangle there. Also note the light bulb and capacitors are between the magnet and the capcoils. The proximity of the armature to the magnet pretty much guarantees the armature will absorb all of the magnet's field. If any of the magnetic field were to "leak" from this arrangement of the magnet poles and the armature, it would be directed away from the cap coils.
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  #792  
Old 10-27-2014, 01:53 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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What if it's much simpler.... what was the single event that led to the constructions of the capcoils - transformers etc....? It's constructed to enhance, store and recycle.

All the information I've found seems to set the focus on the basket coils, special cap formation and transformers which in reality would lead you away from the origin.... show the "eye candy" to deviate from the truth.

The only portion that isn't well explained is the buzzer coils.... the heart of the system. Even his toy plane motor was built around the simple 3 coil oscillator - everything else was added to enhance, store and recycle the energy.

The thing that rang out for me was " coils that only Hendershot knew how to rig" , "the 40 turns added to the ringer coils", the comment that they wouldn't/couldn't work because they are shorted, and the connections to the cores of the ringer coils.

All else aside, it started from a single simple discovery that he built upon...
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:04 AM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Quote:
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What if it's much simpler.... what was the single event that led to the constructions of the capcoils - transformers etc....? It's constructed to enhance, store and recycle.
I think that's true. The more I look at it, the simpler it gets. Construction is coming along but the question of the coil winding directions made me back up and look at it again. And what I saw this time around that was staring me in the face is that there are 4 transformers, 2 or either side. The vertical oscillator type transformers and the bottom basket weave coil/capcoil coil.

The vot transformer connections as stated in the notes show opposite phase connections to the middle coils - green to middle coil top on one side and green to middle coil bottom on the other side and in both cases the opposite end of the middle coil goes to the 40uF capacitor of its respective side.

I'm still not clear on what the top and middle coils do. I guess that depends on the capcoil core. Originally a coffee can, later aluminum or stainless steel ("From the Archives of Lester J. Hendershot" by Mark Hendershot). The coffee can would have had a magnetic effect, the aluminum not magnetic, and the type of stainless steel wasn't specified so it could have been magnetic or not. I'm beginning to think that the material wasn't that important but that it was the size needed to get the capcoil capacitor materials near to the basket weave coils.

Considering that the capcoil cap and capcoil coil form a self oscillating LRC circuit and they are inductively coupled to the bottom basket weave coils and the tops of the bottom basket weave coils are connected together through the commons of the 80/40 capacitors I suspect that at least those capcoil coils should be wound opposite of each other to get the phasing correct so the energies enhance rather than cancel.

The transformer work in this circuit is new to me so I'm not yet clear on the phasing issues. Any links to good references on transformer phasing would be appreciated.

Quote:
The only portion that isn't well explained is the buzzer coils.... the heart of the system.
That seems pretty straight forward to me. Remember that the armature only has one magnetic polarity because the ends of the radar magnetron magnet are the same polarity with the recessed center pole being the opposite polarity. The ringer coils are wound and connected so that as the current passes one way through the windings the coil core ends facing the magnet armature have opposite polarities. The opposite ends of the cores are connected with a magnetic material to reinforce that magnetic polarity of the cores. That's the same way it works in an old phone ringer to get the bell clapper to move from side to side to hit the bells on either side. It literally oscillates a moveable armature to which the clapper is attached. So one side of the armature is attracted to one ringer coil core and repulsed by the other core. When the current reverses through the coils due to the oscillation set up by the capcoils, the polarity of the buzzer core coils reverses and the opposite sides of the armature are attracted/repulsed. In each half of the cycle energy is added to the circuit when the attracted side's magnetic field gets stronger, thus enhancing the energy in the coil of the attracting pole and weakening its opposition in the opposite coil core since the armature is being repulsed and therefore the filed on that side weakened.

Scroll down the following link's page to figures 6 and 7. It's very similar. They are purposefully reversing the polarity through the coils to perform a mechanical selection function. In our case that mechanical function is to oscillate the armature by continuously reversing the current through the coils so the magnet feeds energy into the system as described above. Keep in mind that we are calling it a "buzzer" because it was said to make a buzzing sound. So it seems it would be relatively low frequency physical movement of the armature that would make this sound.
Antique Telephone History Website

The buzzer can be looked at as a transformer also but where only one side is electrical. Rather than feeding electricity into the primary to create a magnetic field to be coupled to the secondary, the magnetic field of the magnet is used as the primary. As such, the air gap between the ringer coil cores and the armature can be looked at in the same manner as the gap in the vertical oscillator transformer E & I laminations.
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  #794  
Old 10-29-2014, 02:18 AM
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I would, respectfully, disagree with the notion that the buzzer coils are wired like a standard bell ringer.

Note the torn paper cover on the coils, Also note the connections to the cores of the coils.

These are not standard "off the shelf" ringer coils - they have been modified to react like the original 3 coil oscillator.
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Old 10-29-2014, 02:15 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
I would, respectfully, disagree with the notion that the buzzer coils are wired like a standard bell ringer.

Note the torn paper cover on the coils, Also note the connections to the cores of the coils.

These are not standard "off the shelf" ringer coils - they have been modified to react like the original 3 coil oscillator.
You might be right about the electrical connections to the cores but I don't think that photo supports the idea.

There are dark areas between the electrical connection tabs and the coil cores on both sides - the red arrows in the attachment. The shiny object on the left coil core pointed to by the yellow arrow appears to me to be a drop of solder that fell down to the core when the connection was soldered. But there is no shiny solder on either the left or right cores connecting the electrical tabs to the cores. It seems to me if they were being electrically connected there would be either a wire or a large solder bridge making that connection.

If you look at the view of those coils shot from the other end you'll also see what appears to be a piece of metal across the ends of the cores (outlined in read in the attachment). That makes sense magnetically but if the cores were electrically connected that would be a direct connection and the electrical current, taking the path of least resistance, wouldn't go through the windings. The coils I acquired have internal threads for mounting in the cores on the ends with the electrical tabs. I'm guessing that piece of metal is drilled behind the cores and has screws into the cores to hold them in place.

I think I have the phasing worked out. Time to proceed with the build. I guess I could try the electrical connection to the cores when I get it built. Did you try it in your build?
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  #796  
Old 10-29-2014, 04:55 PM
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I'm not sure where that picture originated and it appears to be a build that was more modern than the original - not sure when plexiglass became available... I question if that was a picture of a working unit, but, it led to some experiments that yielded varying successes and enticed me to move away from the original Hendershot build.

The picture with Hendershot standing next to the unit running a radio appeared to have an Ader phone reciever/transmitter in place of the ringer coils... just to clarify the terms a reciever/transmitter to me is the same as a motor/generator as they serve the same function, simply in a different form.

Taking a coil and moving a magnet in front of it you have a reciever or generator- with a stationary coil and magnet then moving iron between them also generates a current - really basic stuff... moving iron speakers and balanced armature technology of the day.

From the original drawings of the 3 coil unit (toy airplane) he created an oscillator using the relaxing field to generate the power needed to alter the natural magnetic flow. This would collapse the flow of current from the center coil leading to the collapse of current flowing in the other two coils again allowing the natural field to permeate through the center coil starting the cycle over.

Those coils are the motor/generator...
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Old 10-29-2014, 10:57 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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The images I have came from a document download from user "Crusty" at Overunity.de which is in German. I translated it through Google translate. It is supposed to be a build either by Arthur C. Aho or given to him by Lester Hendershot. The document I downloaded did not include a photo of the build actually running.

The photos do show one thing that people generally ignore and that is the paraffin between the outer side of the capcoil and the inside of the basket weave coils. The paraffin is mentioned in "From the Archives of Lester J. Hendershot". That had me chasing my tail for a while to determine if it was actually a carnauba wax based electret material rather than plain paraffin. I couldn't work out how the carnauba wax mixture could be melted and poured into place with polarized electrodes energized to multiple kV while it cooled. So for now I'm thinking it is plain paraffin. The one photo of a working unit shows Hendershot "tuning" the device with a C-clamp on the inner metal capcoil lining and the outer layer of the basket weave coils. So I'm thinking that C-clamp would be necessary if the paraffin had hardened.

Plexiglass was originally developed from Bakelite in the 1930's (I think) and used in airplanes in WW II. I think it is the same material that they called "Perspex" back then. Or that may have just been a British brand name like "Plexiglass" is a U.S. brand name. Anyway, it would have been around in the 1950's and later.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:05 AM
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working Hendershot...

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Originally Posted by thx1138 View Post
The image is from "From the Archives of Lester J. Hendershot" by Mark Hendershot. It's the only photo I know of that shows a working Hendershot generator. No equilateral triangle there. Also note the light bulb and capacitors are between the magnet and the capcoils. The proximity of the armature to the magnet pretty much guarantees the armature will absorb all of the magnet's field. If any of the magnetic field were to "leak" from this arrangement of the magnet poles and the armature, it would be directed away from the cap coils.
Yes. I recall this picture.
There are a couple of things that bother me about it.
1. It is very poor quality.
2. You cannot work out if the light bulb is actually glowing, or if the device is just on the table with him working on it -- un-powered.
3. There can be a source of light from ABOVE, that spot-lights down onto the board. Certainly if he's inside, he probably needs the lights on to work on the unit.

So although this is an interesting picture, it is not necessarily showing the unit operating.

Further, I have found while messing around with this stuff that you don't want the wires all unorganized, and crossing each other, and "messy".
You want them all neat and separated from each other. With AC currents going thru wires, the currents can jump thru plastic and create cross-talk and skin effects.
This leads me to believe that what we are looking at in this photo is him working things out on the table -- mid assembly.

Another thing I never noticed before. That METER. At first I thought it might be an ammeter or something. But thinking about Hendershot and his desire to improve the induction compass, I wonder if that meter is actually from an induction compass, and is showing more of a turn-left versus turn-right indication, with no energy being the CENTER point of the meter.
In other words, to work out the "balance" and "tuning" of the system, he might want this device to find the "center" point.
Just an idea -- I have no evidence or anything else to back that up with other than just the idea the Hendershot worked with induction compass technology.
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Old 10-31-2014, 05:02 AM
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watt meter

In this patent:

Patent US2444290 - Earth induction compass - Google Patents

the device uses what they call a WATT meter, to indicate
"the angle between the longitudinal axis of the system of iron cores and the direction of the horizontal component of the earth magnetic field".

Notice how the circuit in this patent has a
spinning "motor" attachment between two symetric coils, call them left and right. These are arranged to feed into a "tube" amplifier, which feeds a transformer, which then goes on to feed the watt meter.
There is a further pick-up coil arrangement near only the "right" coil,
with a phase shifter, providing the other input to the other coil in the meter. Also a "filter" is seen across those leads of the watt meter.

I can almost imagine Henershot thinking it would be fun to put a device like this in his son's toy plane, to demonstrate to his son, "the induction compass". That might have been an original inspiration, but it could have led to his discovery of how to create rotation w/o batteries.
Normally an induction compass would have "wind", as the plane flies', inspiring the rotation near the coils to generate power enough to move the meter. I could imagine he might have substituted a meter in the tiny plane with some hand made things made from coils, magnets, and iron.

When your interested in something like this, you want to show off your knowledge to family members and get them interested too, so working on this is a toy would be a way to do that, with the tiny airplane a sort of model for what he imagines could be productized once he's worked out the kinks.
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Old 10-31-2014, 05:40 AM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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left and right coils

So again thinking about the induction compass.
We need a left and a right coil, with a curious arrangement where
I think the wiring of each of the two coils are counter-wound --
one clock-wise, the other counter-clockwise.
Place a spinning magnet between them (from wind power),
and you can generate a signal that has a phase relationship
that is affected by the orientation relative to the Earth's Magnetic Field.
This signal will be WEAK at some orientations of your device
and STRONG at other orientations -- very much along the lines of the
story told about how Hendershots toy plane only worked certain
headings of the compass, but not others.
Now traditionally, you need a magnet to be spinning in this thing,
or you need a coil structure spinning within the Earth's field.
So the question is, is there a way to do this w/o spinning "physically" anything?

If our amp circuit was switched around to be an oscillator and went backwards INTO the coils, instead of using the coils for pick up, then a magnetic field between them oscillates and possibly can provide the push-pull with the Earth's field. Move the device around various orientations, and your other "pickup", very much like a Magnetometer, can thus pickup an additional "signal". Magnetometers actually kinda work this way -- a sort of backward hookup of induction compass.

So as to the L1, L2, L3, L4 coils on Hendershot's coil, yeah the bottom ones look like a transfomer, doing the conversion from high-current/low voltage, to high-voltage/low-current. I imagine the high-current side to be the tank-circuit with the hand-made capacitor. I imagine the high-voltage side as the light-bulb side. The other two coils are some sort of "pickup" or "tickler" coil arrangement to provide a feedback and phase-shift function of some sort.

Suppose you had an induction compass, pre-made. You took out the spinning magnet motor thing, and instead were tinkering with just an oscillator and the coils themselves. If you were able to "juice" up the relationships a bit by perhaps doing "more" windings, or a special way so as to reduce "wire" and "resistance", your sensitivity could be improved, and the labor involved reduced. So you might be inspired to read up on amateur radio coil winding techniques -- found in hobby magazines. You would read about basket-weave, honeycomb coils, etc. You would read about the optimum geometries for such coils, and what special wire to buy, etc. Only in Hendershot's case, he's not trying to make a radio. He rather might be taking a radio apart for the special wire, and the materials inside, to deploy in his device. His coils are for picking up this "beat" signal created with the Earth's field. So he's interested in large inductance with the least amount of wire (since wire is expensive).
In physics, you learn that there is a direct relationship between
the magnetic field and current. So that motivates you to keep resistance LOW. Hence, you have the problem of how do I keep current as large as possible, and yet create a very large inductance?
Wrapping a coil around iron is one way.
How about wrapping a coil around a MAGNET?
The B-H curve is known for IRON.
What about the B-H curve for a magnet? Not well understood.
Anyway, Hendershot appears to have taken a ring magnet,
and wrapped a special coil around it in his "special" way, or so the
story goes.

Certainly if this is "flux-gate magnetometer" or similar, then looking at the human art for these magnetometers can give a clue.
I think the key here though is how to boost that signal. How to get the best possible gain from off-the-shelf parts, and to go BIGGER than just a simple sensor.

I have worked out how you can make a compass SPIN using a horseshoe magnet, a bar, and a solenoid. It works and is EASY.
I have videos demonstrating this.
In other words, you can make the static magnetic field of a magnet MOVE using a solenoid. This doesn't take that much power, but the field at your command can be a large one if your magnet is large.
Thus with a small current, you can control a LARGER magnetic field. Doesn't this sound like AMPLIFICATION, since
current and magnetism have a relationship, and yet we have exploited or leveraged a "free" magnetic field already present in a natural magnet.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:36 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
Yes. I recall this picture.
There are a couple of things that bother me about it.
1. It is very poor quality.
2. You cannot work out if the light bulb is actually glowing, or if the device is just on the table with him working on it -- un-powered.
3. There can be a source of light from ABOVE, that spot-lights down onto the board. Certainly if he's inside, he probably needs the lights on to work on the unit.

So although this is an interesting picture, it is not necessarily showing the unit operating.
Even with today's photographic devices it is difficult to take a picture of a lit 60W light bulb. There's no date on the picture but I imagine it was 40's or early 50's and I don't think he would have had the best photographic equipment of that day. Probably part of the problem is also how it was reproduced for inclusion in the paper.

There is definitely another light source off to the right somewhere. Look at the light and shadows on the table (not the mounting board) on the right and left sides of the photo plus the light on his left arm (right side of the photo). Then look at the pool of light below the light bulb and the reflected light off of the capcoils, magnet, capacitors. A spot light directly above wouldn't produce those reflections and shadows and if the bulb were not lit it would cast a shadow from the light source out to the right. I would think that if it were a spot light from above we could see the outline of the light bulb and possibly the components inside it since the light would reflect somewhat from the glass bulb.

Quote:
Another thing I never noticed before. That METER. At first I thought it might be an ammeter or something. But thinking about Hendershot and his desire to improve the induction compass, I wonder if that meter is actually from an induction compass, and is showing more of a turn-left versus turn-right indication, with no energy being the CENTER point of the meter.
In other words, to work out the "balance" and "tuning" of the system, he might want this device to find the "center" point.
Just an idea -- I have no evidence or anything else to back that up with other than just the idea the Hendershot worked with induction compass technology.
I did notice the meter and researched it somewhat but many kinds of panel meters (volts, amps, decibels, torque, etc.) of the period had that same general construction and layout. So without being able to read the text on the meter it's really not possible to determine what it is.

The text that accompanied the photo said it was a picture of him tuning the device. I think it would have to have been operating for him to tune it.

So I think it is definitely running or it is being powered from a wall socket which is possible since we can't see the bottom left corner where a wire could come into the circuit.
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:25 PM
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Morpher, they were using the earths magnetic field to produce a detectable signal. The spinning core wasn't a magnet only a magnetic core - iron. The strength of the field then could be measured when rotor was aligned with the 2 coils forming a magnetic path through the coil cores - producing a current flow. When it was off north the signal would be weaker and straight north was strong. Thus the deviation would show up in the meter as a high or low signal indicating how far off north they were.

Basically the induction compass was a wind generator using the earths magnetic field as the "magnets" to generate a measurable current. Most of the early units used wind to propel the rotor and later added a small motor to control the speed and increase accuracy.

If you take a long extension cord and string it east and west, connect the ends together with a uA meter and swing it like a jump rope the meter will rise and fall based on it's position in rotation in regard to north and south( moving toward or away). If you could do the same thing in a vertical position you could determine north by strength of the signal and by it's sine either east west or south.

So lets say we have a coil pointing in the north south direction, in order for that coil to produce a current the magnetic field has to be "cut",disturbed, altered or blocked in some way with just enough time for the field in the core to collapse. At that point we open the gate and allow the natural field to follow its normal path through the core which generates a current in the coil. Any change in the cores state of magnetism produces a current - collapsing or naturalizing. Either collapsing or naturalizing the current always flows in the same direction unless the field is reversed.

So the question might be how to cut that field without an external power source such as wind or a small motor.... if you lay a coil and core in the north south position you could consider it charged - divert the field slightly it will collapse creating a current flow, allow it to naturalize and again a current in the same direction produced... a generator functions on a change in field strength.
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Old 11-01-2014, 02:30 AM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post

So lets say we have a coil pointing in the north south direction, in order for that coil to produce a current the magnetic field has to be "cut",disturbed, altered or blocked in some way with just enough time for the field in the core to collapse. At that point we open the gate and allow the natural field to follow its normal path through the core which generates a current in the coil. Any change in the cores state of magnetism produces a current - collapsing or naturalizing. Either collapsing or naturalizing the current always flows in the same direction unless the field is reversed.

So the question might be how to cut that field without an external power source such as wind or a small motor.... if you lay a coil and core in the north south position you could consider it charged - divert the field slightly it will collapse creating a current flow, allow it to naturalize and again a current in the same direction produced... a generator functions on a change in field strength.
Dragon,
Would a multi-stranded (litz) wire coil help in this instance? Would it not essentially provide inductors that can be charged in parallel (by a changing mag field)? If you could alter the magnetic field acting on a litz core and discharge the resultant charge thru a diode into a small cap, followed by a perpendicularly wound coil, you'd have another pulse to get the system ringing. - just a thought, probably more of a TPU question, but maybe there's something they have in common.
Bob
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Last edited by Bob Smith; 11-01-2014 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 11-01-2014, 02:17 PM
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It's quite possible... I don't have a lot of experience with litz wire other than some basket coils made up for crystal radio projects. I'm not sure how it would react used with a core - possibly making it more efficient, higher Q... Other than the expense of the wire it might be interesting to wind one up and experiment with it.
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:47 AM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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A couple of interesting points

My build is coming along slowly. I ran into some information that seems relevant.

The 80/40 capacitors - all or nearly all of today's AC capacitors have an internal bleed resistor built in that discharges them when they aren't in use. That changes the schematics when you put the parallel resistors in them. Typically they are in mega Ohm ranges. I'm not sure when this practice was started but it seems doubtful that Hendershot's original build would have had them. More info and/or thoughts from anyone?

There is a piece of metal on the back of the ringer coils that I bought that ties the coil cores together magnetically. The coil cores appear to be the same material. I found that it is most likely permalloy which has interesting magnetic properties - very high permeability and very low coercivity both of which would be needed for high frequency magnetic fluctuations. The high permeability also allows it to react to weak magnetic fields. An interesting tie in is that it is about the same as mu metal which is used today in aviation magnetic compasses to shield the compass from electrical fields from the engine and other circuits in the instrument panel. I'm wondering if this is the compass tie in to Hendershot's generator. Was the magnetron magnet armature made of permalloy? The armature in the ringer mechanism that actuates the bell clapper is also permalloy.

The capcoils were said to have paraffin poured into them between the capacitor part and the coils. You can see it in the Aho photos. Paraffin has about the same dielectric constant as paper. Since the outer layer of the capacitor wrappings is an aluminum foil that isn't shown to be attached to anything, I'm wondering what the role is here. The magnetic fields from the coils would induce a current in the aluminum foil but with the paraffin separating them I'm not sure what the result would be. Any thoughts?
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:00 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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Wow! You guys are better each day ! Morpher44 , definitely Tesla fountain is antigravity device plan. I believe you can build working replica of Hendershot device very soon.
Can somebody clean picture of the original Hendershot device ?
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Last edited by boguslaw; 11-25-2014 at 05:00 PM. Reason: add
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Old 11-25-2014, 11:14 PM
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God bless us all who where looking for free energy!
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:44 PM
thx1138 thx1138 is offline
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Build almost complete

The only thing remaining is the capcoil capacitors. I'm still pondering the dielectric paper.

I thought I would do some testing on what I have to determine if my theories are close or completely off the mark.

I did find some vertical oscillator transformers but they are 1:4.14 rather than 1:5. I may need to make some transformers later but thought these would be OK for initial testing.

One of my theories per the mag amp schematic is that the capcoils are the oscillators and the buzzer assembly is the power source. So I connected a line powered (120VAC, 60Hz) transformer to the right side of the Aho schematic setup where the J. G. Gallimore schematic shows the battery powered oscillator. That is the right side buzzer coil to the load connection in the Aho scematic. The transformer has dual taps so I tried it with 12V and got nothing. When I tried it with the 24V tap I get a good buzzing at the buzzer and can definitely feel the vibration in the buzzer coils. The buzzer coils are wired exactly as they came out of the telephone ringer circuit and the permalloy "heel iron" is across the back of the coils and mounted to aluminum angle for adjustment. My magnet side armature is just carbon steel cut to the size of the magnet poles because I haven't yet found a cheap source for permalloy from which to make the armature. If I can get any output at all (see below) I'll probably buy mumetal for the armature.

Interestingly, I get zero volts at the output and it's a solid zero volts. It doesn't vary at all. I've checked all connections and continuity and the circuit is good in that respect. I'm guessing the zero volt output is due to phasing of the two sides of the circuit cancelling each other out. So that's my next step - to get the two sides in phase.
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Old 12-17-2014, 01:37 AM
cris cris is offline
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resonator coil

has anybody used a single resonator on your project
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_2014-11-25-20-30-53.jpg (54.1 KB, 10 views)
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:32 AM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Picked this up on eBay a while back. Thought it might eventually be good for this project or someone here might be looking for something like it.

2J39 MAGNETRON RAYTHEON HORSESHOE MAGNET VINTAGE MILITARY TUBE HIGH FREQUENCY

I don't have the time right now, but if someone else is interested, I paid $49.50 plus $15.19 for shipping.

Photo attached.

I am NOT in the business of buying stuff on eBay to resell, and this is the first time I have offered to sell anything from my collection. We have this AMAZING warehouse here in San Jose that is full of ancient equipment and old test equipment in wooden boxes. I love to poke around in that place. I can always find a coil or a transformer there of any size I can imagine, and I can imagine some pretty BIG coils!!!! So I am always buying stuff there and on eBay that looks like it might be hard to come by.

Dave
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