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  #91  
Old 11-01-2009, 11:37 PM
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Re posted the Steap video

For those who still have trouble viewing the last video from mike, I downloaded it using vuclip.com, (tell it you're using a mobile device) which compresses web videos for download.

I put it up here

YouTube - centraflow's STEAP video

love and light
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  #92  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:09 AM
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I just watched the video after downloading from mp4youtube. I must say congratulation . Forgive my previous response, I thought you are reporting problem, I am unaware that you are using secondary to charge input battery.

I don't agree with capacitor test. If capacitor and battery can give coil comparison different result, then it is possible that you may not achive self running using capacitor but you achieve self running using battery. But I also understand the consideration of DrStiffler about wether it is because the battery being reverted to it's original load voltage. I just do a replication with a joule thief charging trough it's secondary which show an increase of voltage during load. AN extreme example though because the voltage drop to 6.7 volts. My circuit draw around 25mA, so a light bulb would lower the voltage during run to an even lower value.

Between recording and uploading, the battery raised from value in video 6.3V to 6.83V.
Edit: drop to 6.78V when posting.

YouTube - Show how battery voltage climb during load & standing

I also wonder if the charge is surface charge too.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
I just watched the video after downloading from mp4youtube. I must say congratulation . Forgive my previous response, I thought you are reporting problem, I am unaware that you are using secondary to charge input battery.

I don't agree with capacitor test. If capacitor and battery can give coil comparison different result, then it is possible that you may not achive self running using capacitor but you achieve self running using battery. But I also understand the consideration of DrStiffler about wether it is because the battery being reverted to it's original load voltage. I just do a replication with a joule thief charging trough it's secondary which show an increase of voltage during load. AN extreme example though because the voltage drop to 6.7 volts. My circuit draw around 25mA, so a light bulb would lower the voltage during run to an even lower value.

Between recording and uploading, the battery raised from value in video 6.3V to 6.83V.
Edit: drop to 6.78V when posting.

YouTube - Show how battery voltage climb during load & standing

I also wonder if the charge is surface charge too.
@All

Although I have little supportive citation to go along with my methodology I have been (IMHO) relatively successful in removing the issue of the (phantom charge, pseudo charge, float charge) or whatever name is applied by a simple procedure. Disconnection of the battery and allowing it to rest for 10 minutes. Placing a controlled current draw on the battery of 10C for 2 minutes. This has been very successful in bringing the battery to its real (actual) voltage.
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  #94  
Old 11-03-2009, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStiffler View Post
@All

Although I have little supportive citation to go along with my methodology I have been (IMHO) relatively successful in removing the issue of the (phantom charge, pseudo charge, float charge) or whatever name is applied by a simple procedure. Disconnection of the battery and allowing it to rest for 10 minutes. Placing a controlled current draw on the battery of 10C for 2 minutes. This has been very successful in bringing the battery to its real (actual) voltage.
I see. My battery will still behave like that even after 1 hour of 0.1C or a day rest, although it do become faster to regain original voltage after each discharging. I guess higher load is needed.

Here is video showing voltage increase during 0.6A load directly after charging with rather bad battery:
YouTube - Voltage increase during load
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  #95  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:28 PM
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Thanks a lot

@Gotoluc

Thanks a lot Luc for the program, works a treat, I can now see the harmonics and which harmonics create the best voltage to current, some very interesting results.

Hope to make a video, but I will have to load the program in the lap top so as I can record with the web cam.

Tests so far using my PWM as a switch shows that the current input is 20ma with an output of 363v on the secoundary and 98v between the phasing transformer and primary. I did change the 47 ohm resistor for 3.3k between the battery - and mosfet. The trigger voltage seems to be important as well, still investigating this when I have time.

Mike
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  #96  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:33 PM
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P.S.

Forgot to say that the best main frequency is around 4khz with harmonics at 2Khz and 6Khz

If I take the main fequency up to around 6Khz then the current draw goes up to 240ma and the output voltage up around 600vAC

Mike
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  #97  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:53 AM
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Hi Michael,

glad the software is helping your work

I'm back home now and been playing around with a replication of your STEAP circuit.

In my replication I can remove (circled in red) the 0.39uf 400v cap and one of the 0.01uf caps and I see no change in circuit performance can you please check to see if you get the same thing or is it possible I made an error in the post connections of the phase transformer? Please look at the diagram below to see if the connections I made (in back) are at the correct position if you're looking from above at your phase transformer. Please let me know if the side (circled in red) should be flipped around.

Thanks for your help Michael

Luc

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  #98  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:46 AM
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Luc,

Could you please post a video on your findings on STEAP circuit.

Thanks,
Nuri Temurlenk
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  #99  
Old 11-04-2009, 02:39 PM
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Hi Nuri,

well, that will go without saying if you know my work

I will post a video once I have some stable results.

Thanks for your interest.

Luc
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  #100  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:57 PM
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see diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Hi Michael,

glad the software is helping your work

I'm back home now and been playing around with a replication of your STEAP circuit.

In my replication I can remove (circled in red) the 0.39uf 400v cap and one of the 0.01uf caps and I see no change in circuit performance can you please check to see if you get the same thing or is it possible I made an error in the post connections of the phase transformer? Please look at the diagram below to see if the connections I made (in back) are at the correct position if you're looking from above at your phase transformer. Please let me know if the side (circled in red) should be flipped around.

Thanks for your help Michael

Luc

Hi Luc

Don't have time today to test this but if you look at the diagram I have put the + and - to show the conections. I think that the pairing conections are at each end, they are for me, ie, the left is 2X+ and the right is 2X-.

The two 104 caps are for bias and the 120uf cap, the 120 seems to work better if it is 2200uf if normal cap, the 120uf I am using is a photo cap. This also removes unwanted frequencies.

You could use your f/generator on square wave to drive a mosfet for the switching as per diagram of DrStiffler

Mike
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File Type: jpg luc 001.jpg (31.3 KB, 119 views)
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  #101  
Old 11-04-2009, 06:05 PM
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P:S:

Luc the .39 cap is putting a discharge into the circuit at the 0v of the wave, I am thinking that this should be much bigger, but this is for testing.

Mike
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  #102  
Old 11-07-2009, 06:08 PM
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New video uploading now

Hi all,

Uploading a new video to show the circuit running and charging and at the same time giving HV on a secoundary output.

The loop back is now connected between the phasing transformer and the primary of a 240v-12v transformer in reverse.

The start voltage was 4.12v and terminated at 4.14v after 25min. Here is the take on the frequency analiser. The main frequency is in the middle, the other two are the harmonics.

When video is up I will post a link

Mike
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  #103  
Old 11-07-2009, 06:53 PM
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batteries and caps

This is just an observation of running the STEAP with a battery and or caps.

I have tried to run the circuit just with caps, a total of 9150uf, it will run on an initial charge for up to one minute before it returns to 0v, but then they start to charge in reverse, can anybody tell me why they charge in reverse?

If I use a battery which is nearly flat in parallel with the caps, then the battery starts to charge and it holds its charge,

Does anybody know anything about battery caps? as I think this is the quick way to a total self runner here

Mike
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  #104  
Old 11-07-2009, 07:05 PM
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video link

video link, hope it workshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPbeHdzhaw

Mike
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  #105  
Old 11-07-2009, 07:30 PM
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problems with link?

If there is a problem with the link, I'm hacked, go to centraflows channel on you tube

Mike
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  #106  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:44 PM
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Hi Michael,

the video links you posted does not work.

This link does: YouTube - Steap self charge and HV output

ADDED:

I thought I had an interesting effect on my replication but it ended up being the Signal Generator bleeding through the switching MOSFET since my voltage source was lower then the FET switching voltage. So I have nothing to show, so no video from me

Luc
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  #107  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoluc View Post
Hi Michael,

the video links you posted does not work.

This link does: YouTube - Steap self charge and HV output

ADDED:

I thought I had an interesting effect on my replication but it ended up being the Signal Generator bleeding through the switching MOSFET since my voltage source was lower then the FET switching voltage. So I have nothing to show, so no video from me

Luc
Hi Luc

You need to use higher voltages and a lower frequency. It seems that high frequencies do not work as well.

Did you see what I posted about the caps charging in a reverse voltage well it is true and they keep charging in a negative, why I do not know at the moment. Wish I had a 2 farad cap at 12v, but a discharged battery and caps in parallel seem to do the trick, charge the caps to 12v and connect and away she goes charging the battery, no bleed through on this, the amp draw on the generator does not move, infact I could do away with the battery on the generator, the hole thing self runs and charges the battery.

My next step is to make an oscillator and some sort of frequency regulator for the change as the voltage increases in the circuit, this is a problem

More experimenting this week I hope. If you do some more, work on frequencies around 4Khz, you should get 2Khz below and above at the same time, this is when things start working.

Mike
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  #108  
Old 11-07-2009, 11:12 PM
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Hi Mike. Getting more and more intriguing. Especially your reference to the negative charge. Well done for exploring all this. Personally I think this needs replicators. I believe Luc's rallying, rallied? Love to hear more.
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  #109  
Old 11-08-2009, 10:54 AM
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Mike, this is very interesting, I am really looking forward to the endurance aspect of this circuit. We don't know yet how much energy your STEAP moves about, but it would be so cool if we could light up that 5W lamp and still charge the battery. I think that would be asking a bit much of the field, perhaps 1W or so, I don't know. Honestly, I don't recall how much power the Neons burn. If we are stay below the available power of the system in our load consumption, then theoretically the device would keep the lamp lit indefinitely. All very interesting.

Now, I just want to clear my head on something, I heard or read your statement (can't recall) that you 'could' run it off the one battery and it would self run. That is what we are seeing in the video correct? e.g. the single battery at 4V stable (or slightly rising) while it itself powers the circuit and lights the Neon? Awesome.

Keep up the good work

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  #110  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
Mike, this is very interesting, I am really looking forward to the endurance aspect of this circuit. We don't know yet how much energy your STEAP moves about, but it would be so cool if we could light up that 5W lamp and still charge the battery. I think that would be asking a bit much of the field, perhaps 1W or so, I don't know. Honestly, I don't recall how much power the Neons burn. If we are stay below the available power of the system in our load consumption, then theoretically the device would keep the lamp lit indefinitely. All very interesting.

Now, I just want to clear my head on something, I heard or read your statement (can't recall) that you 'could' run it off the one battery and it would self run. That is what we are seeing in the video correct? e.g. the single battery at 4V stable (or slightly rising) while it itself powers the circuit and lights the Neon? Awesome.

Keep up the good work

Hi Harvey,

That is quite right, and the switching circuit was drawing 20ma on its own, so we have at least 20ma going back into the battery.

For a 4.12v input we are getting some very high voltage out even before the primary coil of the transformer and it is not too fluffy either to give amperage of plus 20ma, I would say at a guess 30ma out for a 20ma input by the rate of charge of the battery. More tests needed, but this would run for ever theoreticaly

Battery/cap I think plays an important part, I will test again with only the 120uf cap on the circuit board. I think caps on their own might work if the bank was big enough, but I only at the moment have 9000 odd uf. but will run for nearly 1 minute with a 12v pre charge.

Now when the caps are down to 0v they start charging in reverse do you understand why? I cannot find an explination, apart from one 20uf large cap all are electrolytic.

If you want me to do anything specific let me know

Mike
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  #111  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:30 PM
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wave form of steap at phasing transformer

This is the wave form at the phasing transformer, type of sine wave, but interesting

Mike
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  #112  
Old 11-08-2009, 01:44 PM
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Test

One thing you could do, esp with little time, is let it run for a week, taking battery voltage readings every 12 hrs, posting the results in a chart..

I'm waiting on a commutator ted is making for me (thanks ted) so I might take a punt at replicating.

I've got some supercaps I'd like to see with this circuit.

I wonder how many LED's this would run while maintaining battery voltage?

Aught to get lidmotor replicating as well
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  #113  
Old 11-08-2009, 08:07 PM
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running time load test+recharge

This is a test over 24hrs to see what power I can sustain while recharging.

Load is 3 bright leds @ total of 105ma

Circuit draw is 20ma

Start voltage 11.85v

Rest voltage 11.86v

Will post results tomorrow after the 24hrs

wave form on test

Mike
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  #114  
Old 11-09-2009, 09:57 AM
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Hi Mike,

May I ask how the battery start voltage was brought to 11.85V? Was this the same battery that was originally at 4.12V?

Regarding the capacitors, I should have a look at your current circuit schematic, as I am unsure of the configuration at this point. Looking at your waveforms, there does seem to be a negative bias (assuming the dotted line is zero volts). Perhaps this is why the caps invert. I'll know more after I have a look at your current configuration. If it is already posted, just let me know which post it is and I'll have a look. If not, could you post it?

105mA out and 20mA in
(now all we need to do is calculate the power)
Looking forward to the endurance test

Cheers!



BTW: You can place two electrolytics back to back in series (neg to neg) and use them together as a single non-polarized cap, but there can be a small amount of heating involved. This way you don't have to worry about the negative charge and you can see how the circuit stablilizes. It's an old trick we often used when NP caps were unavailable in the values we were seeking.
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Last edited by Harvey; 11-09-2009 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Removed question regarding the single battery as it was answered in a previous post.
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  #115  
Old 11-09-2009, 11:23 AM
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battery voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
Hi Mike,

May I ask how the battery start voltage was brought to 11.85V? Was this the same battery that was originally at 4.12V?

Regarding the capacitors, I should have a look at your current circuit schematic, as I am unsure of the configuration at this point. Looking at your waveforms, there does seem to be a negative bias (assuming the dotted line is zero volts). Perhaps this is why the caps invert. I'll know more after I have a look at your current configuration. If it is already posted, just let me know which post it is and I'll have a look. If not, could you post it?

105mA out and 20mA in
(now all we need to do is calculate the power)
Looking forward to the endurance test

Cheers!



BTW: You can place two electrolytics back to back in series (neg to neg) and use them together as a single non-polarized cap, but there can be a small amount of heating involved. This way you don't have to worry about the negative charge and you can see how the circuit stablilizes. It's an old trick we often used when NP caps were unavailable in the values we were seeking.
Hi Harvey

No it is not the same battery, this is a 12v, 4.2ah and was resting at 11.86v when I switched on the circuit it went to 11.85v instantly and has stayed there.

The caps are in parallel with the battery, as I did try just running on the caps with a precharge off the battery but after near one minute they ran down to 0v and then started to reverse charge.

My next test is to remove these caps and see if there is a difference in this test and the one I am doing now. May be if we are getting some negative charge then the caps with the battery might be detrimental to the charging, just a thought.

I have heard that battery caps are the in thing, have you heard of them or used them. I saw one being used on a video, will post the link when I find it.

Mike
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  #116  
Old 11-09-2009, 06:43 PM
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result of test

Hi all

Result of test a bit mixed because during the day one of the leds went out.

This apart the final voltage on the battery was 11.77v which gives us 0.08v drop. The rest voltage was 11.79 after 30min rest.

Comments please

Mike
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  #117  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:43 PM
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Hi Mike,

LEDs fail when they are over amped. The amount of current they draw is related to the voltage supplied and the internal impedance of the device. The junction of most LEDs has a forward drop around 1.2V and this is the balance the device seeks. Some devices will not begin emitting until this threshold is exceeded. We generally use a series resistor with the device to ensure that its maximum rated current is not exceeded for the supply voltage we are using. A typical current for an LED operating in a nondestructive mode is about 20mA, but this value is very device dependent. Some high brightness jumbo LEDs can can draw amps, while some micro leds may only draw a mA or so. Putting LEDs in series is one technique for increasing light output while keeping the current down. This is because each forward voltage drop is added to the next. For example, 13.8VDC can be placed across 10 LEDs in series with a 90 ohm resistor. The network will draw 20mA with 1.8V being dropped across the resistor and 1.2V across each LED. Knowing the specs of your devices will go a long way in keeping them safe. I have done destructive tests on LED's and note that the frequency of the light changes as the device enters a destructive mode. For instance, red LED's will shift to Orange and then Yellow. There also is noticeable heat during a destructive operation.

Regarding the battery draw down, I still need to know the configuration - schematic?

Cheers,

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  #118  
Old 11-10-2009, 03:50 PM
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Test circuit

Hi Harvey,

Sorry did not post circuit, here it is

Mike
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  #119  
Old 11-11-2009, 09:31 PM
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Thanx Mike,

I'll have a look at it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:05 AM
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Hi Mike,

This really is extraordinary. I don't know what type of circuit your PWM incorporates, but for it to work below 3V would really be interesting to evaluate. I wasn't aware that you were running the PWM circuit off the the battery as well.

So, if I understand this correctly, you ran the circuit down to zero battery volts and then the 9120F capacitor began to reverse charge...is that correct? Or was that a different circuit configuration?

In the configuration shown, it would appear that your LED's would drain the battery at a rate of 105mA / hr. All batteries are different, but most 12V lead acid batteries are considered discharged at about 9V as by the time they reach that voltage there just isn't much usable charge left in them. Your battery will deliver 4.2 average Amps for one hour and then it is considered depleted of charge. With just the LED's as a load, we would expect your battery to be discharged in 40 hours (40 * .105 = 4.2). But since your circuit also powers the PWM (I would need to look back at its power requirements) that too would discharge the battery by its value. And then lastly, the circuit resistance itself (copper wire and interconnects and diode junctions) also dissipates power when operated. Interestingly, most of your circuit is reactive and would not result in a great drain factor as most of its operation would entail 'apparent' power. The FET naturally will have an amount of power dropped across it when on and the gate resistors also will exhibit a resistive power loss during the on time.

The beautiful thing about your circuit is that if the PWM is simply set to zero Hz with a fully charged battery, your LED's will effect a natural draw-down curve that can be monitored until the battery can no longer support a current through them and they turn off. That would set a baseline for you. Of course it would take a couple of days, but you may be able to take a reading every 4 hours. Then, after recharging the battery, you could do the exact same test with the PWM at 4.33KHz. This would be a very worthwhile endeavor. If the scalar function of the circuit does produce the gain it appears to, this will be very evident from the tests.

If this is the circuit that produces the negative charge on the capacitors, then we will be looking much closer at the scalar potential and how it may continue to source energy when the battery is drained. This is an important aspect of Rosemary's thesis as well, which states that a secondary event occurs which causes the inductors to function as a power source in addition to the returning energy of the magnetic field collapse. In her model, the additional power is derivative of the atomic structure of the inductor which loses its bonds and gives up the energy of those bonds resulting in the material decay of the inductor. Glen's and Aaron's work in the COP>17 thread are the first attempts at documenting the evidence in a scientific manner to help prove her thesis. For whatever reason, the previous records produced by qualified researchers was not made available to her.

Your work here, may actually provide proof. Of course Koontz, Bearden and Tesla may argue that the energy arrives from a different pool, but at this stage of the 'game' I would say that where it comes from is irrelevant as long as the energy is free to be put to work. And in your case, you are doing just that by lighting the LED's.

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