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  #1  
Old 09-06-2009, 01:06 PM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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Lightbulb The Underground Lab


New website for my bedini projects... was going to start a blog, but thought I might as well build a website.

Still got more to add to it including the Solid State section and a section on the conditioning process, but the basics are there. The "Current Projects" sections is basically a diary of the two projects I'm working on at the moment; my SSG Motor Generator, and my chunky solid state oscillator (@Aaron, I went with the name "Fat Boy" for this one ) I'll gradually add more content as I have time.

and if anyone has any suggestions for the Links page I'm all ears

MG-1


"Fat Boy" Oscillator (with OCD Module)
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  #2  
Old 09-06-2009, 04:56 PM
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Underground Lab

Looks good!

V.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Looks good!

V.
Thanks blackchisel97

I'll hopefully have some interesting results to report soon but until then I'll just fill it with what I know so far

Enjoy!
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:59 AM
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Cool website
Answers a lot of questions I had!
Can you post a better diagram on the ocd circuit
It is difficult to read the text on the website
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Last edited by nvisser; 09-07-2009 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:17 AM
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I noticed that the suggested core diameter should only be 25% of the thickness of the winding. I am using empty solder bobbins and the core is about the same as the windings. Can that create unnecessary drag when used as an energizer coil like in the bedini FEG
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I noticed that the suggested core diameter should only be 25% of the thickness of the winding. I am using empty solder bobbins and the core is about the same as the windings. Can that create unnecessary drag when used as an energizer coil like in the bedini FEG
I wouldn't say that precise percentage is neccessary.

The magnets on the rotor should ideally be at least the same diameter as the core so around 25% - 50% diameter is a bit better than the relatively huge core diameter of a brooks coil configuration...

more important is that the cross section of the coil windings should be as square as possible for maximum inductance for the length of wire.

Using a wider core will also give you a higher Q so your bobbin should be fine as long as your magnets are big enough.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Cool website
Answers a lot of questions I had!
Can you post a better diagram on the ocd circuit
It is difficult to read the text on the website
If you click on the image it will bring up a bigger version of that image

http://www.theundergroundlab.org/ocd-circuit.jpg
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Old 09-07-2009, 01:15 PM
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OCD circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
If you click on the image it will bring up a bigger version of that image
http://www.theundergroundlab.org/ocd-circuit.jpg
It looks like a solid state ssg with only the 10k missing between the base and emmitor of the transistor. Is the protection diode not necesary between base and emmitor ?
Is there any reason why you use a 3rd winding for the charging instead of charging straight from the "drive coil" ?
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Last edited by nvisser; 09-07-2009 at 01:25 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
It looks like a solid state ssg with only the 10k missing between the base and emmitor of the transistor. Is the protection diode not necesary between base and emmitor ?
Is there any reason why you use a 3rd winding for the charging instead of charging straight from the "drive coil" ?
It is a solid state oscillator the important bit is the 4060 timer circuit that regularly switches the batteries from being charged to discharged for the conditioning process.

The third winding isn't important... infact, I don't like using recovery windings if I can avoid it... You can use any solid state device as long as it self starts.

The resistor between the base and the emitter is just to prevent thermal runaway if the base current gets too high which will cause the transistors to heat up. If your transistors stay cool without the resistor then it isn't neccessary for your set up.

I have compared the wave form with and without that resistor, and its addition definitely reduce the amplitude of the spike.
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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla

Last edited by Sephiroth; 09-07-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2009, 07:53 PM
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Success!!!



Motor section of the MG-1 is complete and works even better than I thought it would. I ended up using 22 gauge wire for the stators and wired each side in series so there are 5 coils in series on each side of the rotor.

For some reason it doesn't like working with multiple transistors so that beautiful circuit I put together has been scrapped and it is operating off just one transistor. Odd thing is that my True RMS meter says it is drawing 650ma, though that is 3 times more current than I would normally use per transistor, yet the transistor is cold.

So, top speed is 6000 RPM (confirmed with my tachometer) with single pulses while drawing 650ma (according to my True RMS meter) at around 12.5 volts. Which makes it about an 8 watt motor.

I believe it is incredibly efficient for an SSG. I have yet to measure the mechanical output but the Back EMF voltage EXCEEDS the input voltage, which I didn't think was possible... makes a very interesting wave on my oscilloscope.

I will upload photos and a video tomorrow.

Bedini SSG (MG-1) : The Underground Lab

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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2009, 08:37 PM
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oh, alright then... you've twisted my arm.

Here is the scope shot



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Old 09-13-2009, 11:19 AM
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Video uploaded

YouTube - MG-1 : Pulse Motor Generator (SSG)
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Nikola Tesla
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
..the Back EMF voltage EXCEEDS the input voltage..
Thats an effect you get from driving both sides of the coil with magnets. The coils probably don't fire until the magnet is on the exit side of the coil. So you are precharging the coil.
If the system were closed loop this might be a problem, but in an open loop the precharged energy in your coils runs serial with the battery.
So your potential is stepped up.

I like that little motor, it nice..

Cheers
Matt
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Thats an effect you get from driving both sides of the coil with magnets. The coils probably don't fire until the magnet is on the exit side of the coil. So you are precharging the coil.
If the system were closed loop this might be a problem, but in an open loop the precharged energy in your coils runs serial with the battery.
So your potential is stepped up.

I like that little motor, it nice..

Cheers
Matt
Glad you like it I've been told the maximum mechanical efficiency you can expect from an SSG is 28% so I'm trying to beat it

Should be able to finish the generator side in the next week or two.

@All
Just to give you an idea of how fast this thing actually is, the coils are firing with single pulses at 500hz... that is 500 pulses per second!
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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2009, 06:29 PM
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Hi Seph,

Nice motor.....

I look forward to see how the generator does under load........

What is your shaft size?

May I ask why you went with many small coils in series and on both sides of the rotor?

Are all the coils in one series or is front side one series coil and the back side a seperate series coil?

Also, how do you trigger the motor? Would the SSG circuit for multi coils work?

Anyway.... nice job!

I look forward to more pictures and videos.......

Tj
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Last edited by tjnlsn255; 09-13-2009 at 07:04 PM. Reason: add question about triggering....
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:34 PM
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The coils are configured this way to get the right impedance.

If I hooked all the coils in parallel then their resonant frequency would be too high and it would never reach 1 pulse per magnet pass and mechanical efficiency will be very low.

I was originally using a much finer wire and had the coils wired up as pairs (the coils opposite each other were wired in series, so 5 pairs in parallel) though I wasn't happy with the high resistance.

I haven't tried wiring ALL the coils in series yet, but I think that may be better when the generator is attached...

I should mention that this is experimental... it is not usually recommended to have separate coils in series and I believe it comes with a cost. If the coils are wired in series then their inductances need to be identical for the best charge rate. Unfortunately, mine aren't and I can see on the scope across the battery terminals how this has effected the spike. I really need to get an LC meter to get these coils matched...

Though this project is just to study the mechanical potential of the SSG I have another project which is designed for maximum charging efficiency.

All the coils on one side are bifilars (one power, one trigger) and all the coils on the other side are single-filar. All the coils on either side are wired in series in sets of five, and then both sides are wired in parallel. Tried using separate transistors for either side but for some reason the results were terrible so I wired both sides to the same transistor... I can't believe it works so well with just one transistor.

the shaft is 8mm diameter stainless steel. Unfortunately, it's magnetic stainless steel So that needs to be changed as well.

Oh, and the reason I have gone for such small coils is so they are fully immersed in the rotor magnet's magnetic field. Some may notice that they have very similar dimension to those recommended by Robert Adams
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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2009, 08:14 PM
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Very nice Seph!

Beautiful motor! I was having trouble with your page, the window to read the text was shrunk and i couldnt read anything. Im assuming its still under construction I wanted to tell you that i had a motor very similar to that a while ago, and i was able to improve efficiency of it very easily by simply connecting the backs of the coils with a common flux path(silicon steel or etc) When connected it drew less amps and the rotor speed increased, might be worth trying. Anyways, nice work, looking forward to see it finished.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:33 PM
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Very nice Seph!

Beautiful motor! I was having trouble with your page, the window to read the text was shrunk and i couldnt read anything. Im assuming its still under construction I wanted to tell you that i had a motor very similar to that a while ago, and i was able to improve efficiency of it very easily by simply connecting the backs of the coils with a common flux path(silicon steel or etc) When connected it drew less amps and the rotor speed increased, might be worth trying. Anyways, nice work, looking forward to see it finished.
Thanks Cody!

Sorry to hear your having trouble with the site but thanks for reporting it! What browser are you using? I've tested it with the most recent version of IE, Firefox and Opera, but not sure how it works on safari or older browsers...

If anyone else is having issues please let me know!

Cheers!
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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:08 PM
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Thanks Seph for your fast and detailed answers to my questions....

I was able to access your web site ... awsome job!

I wish you all the very best on your adventure......:-)

Tj
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:47 AM
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I tried it with explorer and it worked fine, i usually use google chrome and that is what the problem was.
thanks
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:54 AM
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Thats awesome SEP! You might have stated this else where, but what sort of magnets are you using?

Two thumbs up.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:15 AM
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Thats awesome SEP! You might have stated this else where, but what sort of magnets are you using?

Two thumbs up.
I think they are grade 8 ceramic disc magnets 5mm deep and 19mm diameter double stacked. Might be grade 5... it isn't labelled on the packaging, but they feel as strong as my other magnets and I know they are all grade 8...

@cody
Thanks I didn't check chrome... I'll get onto that!
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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

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Old 09-26-2009, 12:32 PM
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Fastest SSG on the Planet?

Uploading a new video of the MG-1. Haven't finished the generator section yet as I'm still experimenting with the motor section.

It now draws almost exactly 1 amp.

Top Speed : approx 8500 RPM

Frequency : 712hz

Rotor Circumference Speed : 193km/h

Possibly the fastest ssg on the planet

Watch this space
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Old 09-26-2009, 01:17 PM
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YouTube - MG-1 : 8550rpm, 712hz, 193km/h
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Nikola Tesla
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:53 PM
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Very nice Seph

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Old 10-15-2009, 05:49 AM
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good stuff man
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:33 PM
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Hey Seph,
Wanted to comment on your wire configuration. You said that you currently are using a series parallel wiring for the coils. A little something you may or may not know about coils in parallel:
Coils in parallel have a tendency to collapse into each other rather than coming back out. Ive seen your scope shots and can see that obviously the field is collapsing, so this might not be an issue for your particular setup, but its possible that it is hindering some performance. The effect is very similar to gotolucs recirculating coil energy thread. This parallel coil effect has been pointed out by Peter L. and Aaron many times, and was strongly recommended by peter that it shouldnt be used if your trying to collect the collapsing field. Just a little something i thought you might be interested in, I know your still playing with things and i look forward to seeing it complete
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:42 AM
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A little more on my post above, just to help avoid confusion. I am aware the bedini and others use parallel configurations, but if you notice, they always have seperate transistors for each coil, they are not linked in parallel off just one transistor. Giving each coil its own switch gives each coil its own path to collapse, that way you dont have to worry about them collapsing back into eachother. You will find some people who do use the parallel coils off just 1transistor, but that is because they are trying to collapse the coils into eachother and that is their desired effect, but thats a whole different beast.
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:51 PM
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Hi cody,

Sorry, I thought I replied to your posts!

The thought had occurred to me though as you said I was just experimenting and couldn't really afford to splash out on 10 MJL21194 s anyway

Anouncement

MG-1 is on hold but I have nearly finished the MG-2!



MG-2 The Underground Lab : Blog

I left my camera at work which has nearly all the pictures of it so I'll have to upload those tomorrow. Sorry.

Oh yeah, and I've changed the "Current Projects" section of the website into a wordpress blog with all the usual features
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"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:39 AM
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Update from the Lab...

Progress with the MG-2





Still using a bedini ssg circuit until I can put together a circuit that will let me pulse the coils the way I want to

The website is down for technical reasons... my useless hosts decided to upgrade and it has messed things up but the blog is still up and running and I have posted brief details there:

MG-2 The Underground Lab : Blog

May post a video if I have time...
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