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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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Old 08-30-2009, 07:12 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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"cavitation pump"

I'm sure by now we've all seen the Griggs "Hydrosonic pump", but has anyone tried to build one or has information on "How" to build a similar pump to heat water. ?? I would like to try a replication. I've done some searches and read
the patent, but nothing specific to the actual build.. Can anyone help??

Thanks Paul
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:17 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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[quote=rileydad48;66374]I'm sure by now we've all seen the Griggs "Hydrosonic pump", but has anyone tried to build one or has information on "How" to build a similar pump to heat water. ?? I would like to try a replication. I've done some searches and read
the patent, but nothing specific to the actual build.. Can anyone help??

Thanks Paul[/QUOTE

Hi again...... I have decided on the design that I am going to build. After more research and lots of time on the computer, this is what I have come up with. I choose an 8" dia rotor, mainly cause I allready have the outside casing. A steel pipe with 1/4" thick walls and an 8" ID. I modified the basic pump design to make it a self pumper and I also changed the seal arrangement to try and simplify it's design ( no expensive seals or spring setup ). I'm not trying to get steam, just plenty of hot water to heat a house with. See what you think...

Thanks PaulWater Heater 4a.jpg

Water Drive Disc.jpg
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:47 PM
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sigzidfit sigzidfit is offline
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I saw a failed replication attempt at youtube once and I think the problem with that one was not enough pressure at the inlet. If it doesn't work and you're not connected to the water mains or the pressure is poor you might consider a pump for pressure in front of it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:11 AM
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Reply to Paul:

Hi Paul,

Before you get too excited about replicating a Griggs hydrosonic unit for home heating purposes, consider this - especially if you would plan to use an electric motor to turn the pump:

Griggs formed a company, called Hydro Dynamics Inc, to develop and market his patent for the hydrosonic pump. The company did have plans to build and sell units for home heating installations, and in fact some units were so employed in the area surrounding the manufacturing facility and results were observed. The company has since abandoned their plans to sell home heating units, and have issued the following explanation concerning their hydrosonic pump, which is also called a Shockwave Power Reactor, or SPR:

"Thank you for your inquiry in regard to heating water and/or making steam. Our company no longer markets the device for these applications. Although the device is efficient, in most all water heating applications it is difficult to economically justify a device from a capital or operating point of view. The SPR is about 98% efficient from a shaft point of view and about 90% overall when coupled with a standard 92% efficiency motor, while standard boiler is about 87%, but gas or oil are generally 50% cheaper on a btu basis when compared to electricity, as electricity is an expensive and highly refined fuel when compared to gas, coal or oil. While electricity is competitive there are electrical resistance heaters that are much cheaper and approach 99% efficiency. When we heat fluids there generally has to be some mitigating factor to justify the premium in capital and operating cost. The system can heat water, but there are numerous competing technologies that can heat water and make steam that are much less capital intensive and often cheaper to operate. Because of this we ceased marketing home/residential heating systems and generic steam systems.

Douglas G. Mancosky, Ph.D
Director of Application Development
Hydro Dynamics, Inc"
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:51 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Originally Posted by rickoff View Post
Hi Paul,

Before you get too excited about replicating a Griggs hydrosonic unit for home heating purposes, consider this - especially if you would plan to use an electric motor to turn the pump:

Griggs formed a company, called Hydro Dynamics Inc, to develop and market his patent for the hydrosonic pump. The company did have plans to build and sell units for home heating installations, and in fact some units were so employed in the area surrounding the manufacturing facility and results were observed. The company has since abandoned their plans to sell home heating units, and have issued the following explanation concerning their hydrosonic pump, which is also called a Shockwave Power Reactor, or SPR:

"Thank you for your inquiry in regard to heating water and/or making steam. Our company no longer markets the device for these applications. Although the device is efficient, in most all water heating applications it is difficult to economically justify a device from a capital or operating point of view. The SPR is about 98% efficient from a shaft point of view and about 90% overall when coupled with a standard 92% efficiency motor, while standard boiler is about 87%, but gas or oil are generally 50% cheaper on a btu basis when compared to electricity, as electricity is an expensive and highly refined fuel when compared to gas, coal or oil. While electricity is competitive there are electrical resistance heaters that are much cheaper and approach 99% efficiency. When we heat fluids there generally has to be some mitigating factor to justify the premium in capital and operating cost. The system can heat water, but there are numerous competing technologies that can heat water and make steam that are much less capital intensive and often cheaper to operate. Because of this we ceased marketing home/residential heating systems and generic steam systems.

Douglas G. Mancosky, Ph.D
Director of Application Development
Hydro Dynamics, Inc"
Hi Rick...
Yes, I got the same "form email" from the company. I'll have to do some calculations and compair the two, but it's hard to justify my $400.00 natural
gas bills for each of the three coldest winter months. Even the lowest summer month bills are reaching $60.00 now, when they started out being less than $10.00 12 years ago. I don't see an end in sight.
I keep my house at a comfortable 72 degrees all year long. The electric bills in the summer months even with the AC, have never been more than
$100.00 during the warmest months .
My thinking is that if the system is set up correctly, heating water for say a 50 to 75 gallon storage tank at 180 degrees, and only kicks in when the temperature drops below 110 degress, it's got to be cheaper than using natural gas. (I could be wrong ) And could be considerably cheaper in the future.
I tried a couple different types of electric space heaters for the bedrooms ( of which I have 4) and they worked pretty well to suppliment the furnace.
The forced air versions are a bit noisy and the radiant type seem to take a long time before you can feel any difference, so those we left on almost constantly. Even with running the radiant heaters all winter, the electric bills went up maybe 30.00 a month, and the gas bills were almost unchanged. ( go figure)

I have never seen, or ever heard of, a Griggs residental heating system and I have family that live close to Rome, Georgia. It's almost as though he started out making commercial units. And I have a brother that works in the engineering department of Georgia Power. They are suppose to be testing Griggs' pump, for evaluation. He says they are very "closed mouth" about the results of the testing... !!!
Sorry to be long winded, so to conclude, I need to build it and test it to actually see if it will work for me. I've wasted a $1000.00 before and didn't have this much fun.. LOL

Rick, thanks for the input.. how's the "pipe dream" coming...???

Paul
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:46 PM
wings wings is offline
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You can download for free New Energy Technologies magazine here:

New Energy Technologies magazine

the last numbers 2004 and 2005 contains lot of information about heat cavitation devices

in order to have cavitation the tangential speed must be over 60 m/sec.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:36 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Originally Posted by rileydad48 View Post
I'm sure by now we've all seen the Griggs "Hydrosonic pump", but has anyone tried to build one or has information on "How" to build a similar pump
I think you would be better going the route of the John Worrell Keely "Hydro-Vacuo" machine:
PowerPedia:John Keely - PESWiki
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rileydad48 View Post

Rick, thanks for the input.. how's the "pipe dream" coming...???

Paul
Hi Paul,

Read the info at these two links for the latest goings on in the Pipe Dream project:
"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

If you do build this cavitation heater, you will want to explore the best method of turning it. A "Roto Verter," or Lindemann type motor modification, could save you considerable money on electric usage.

For home heating, though, I can't think of anything more economical than Lloyd's friction heater, except for the possibilities open to burning used engine and cooking oils in either a homemade burner or commercially available furnace. Automotive service shops, and quickie oil change franchises, regularly sell their used oil for just pennies a gallon to tanker truck operators who deliver the oil to a reprocessing plant. The service shop owners would be even happier if they could sell some of that oil for 10 cents a gallon more than they are getting now, and that would be some very cheap fuel for you - about 1/10 or less than the cost of heating oil, and far less than natural gas. You just need a way to pump the oil from the service shop holding tank into a tank or drums in the bed of your pickup truck, and to transfer that oil to your heating system tank at home. The used oil should be filtered as it is pumped, of course, but that is not an obstacle. Used engine oil, or used cooking oil for that matter, burns quite nicely and will give you all the heat you want. If you are interested, let me know and I will dig up some links that I have to commercial waste oil furnaces, and can also point you to plans for converting a hot water heater tank into an efficient waste oil burner that will easily cut your heating bills in half.

Best 2 U,

Rick

Last edited by rickoff : 09-05-2009 at 09:55 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 09-07-2009, 02:46 AM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Originally Posted by rickoff View Post
Hi Paul,

Read the info at these two links for the latest goings on in the Pipe Dream project:
"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

If you do build this cavitation heater, you will want to explore the best method of turning it. A "Roto Verter," or Lindemann type motor modification, could save you considerable money on electric usage

Best 2 U,

Rick
Rick..
I'm more the mechanical type than the electronic type. After your reply,
I read some on the " Rotor Verter " That's were you run a 3 phase motor on
240 volt single phase current.?? Is this the same thing as a "solid state 3 phase converter " that you can buy..??? A 3 phase motor would be the way to go with the " Cavitation Pump".
I totally agree with you on the Llyod's "friction boiler" it would be by far the least expensive to opperate and could be made to self run if you use it for steam. I would do a Llyod's machine in a heart beat, if I could. The problem is, it really should be in a building or storage shed away from the house, and in my housing devlopement.. I can't have another shed. I don't feel comfortable with it in the garage. It is noisy and I'm pretty sure you will get some smoke with the machine. So this is why I looking for something for the basement.
Rick, I know you're busy with the move and the " pipe dream " I really do apperciate your input. You're a true asset to the forum.

Paul
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:22 AM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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Reply to Paul:

Hi Paul,

Check out this pdf file on the Roto Verter: http://www.panaceauniversity.org/RV.pdf

Ash also has some good videos that explain the principles:
Rotoverter Energy saving method#

RV (RotoVerter) demo#


Rick
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:35 AM
wings wings is offline
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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Making hot water with cavitations...
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:48 PM
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sigzidfit sigzidfit is offline
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Good Link wings!

The replication attempt documented there is at least partially functional (80% according to the posts). Notice however, that this machine has the inlet and outlet of the "reactor" REVERSED. If the patent is to be followed.

There is a pump providing some pressure, However it is on the outlet not the inlet as I'd suggest. I also would suggest comparing the performance with different pumps in this position. Maybe an automotive piece.

Other things missing in this attempt that appears in the original patent spec on water/space heating is a volume/pressure tank and maybe some valves.

This would be an excellent application of the RV as Rick suggests.

Peace
PJ
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:41 AM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Originally Posted by sigzidfit View Post
Good Link wings!

The replication attempt documented there is at least partially functional (80% according to the posts). Notice however, that this machine has the inlet and outlet of the "reactor" REVERSED. If the patent is to be followed.

There is a pump providing some pressure, However it is on the outlet not the inlet as I'd suggest. I also would suggest comparing the performance with different pumps in this position. Maybe an automotive piece.

Other things missing in this attempt that appears in the original patent spec on water/space heating is a volume/pressure tank and maybe some valves.

This would be an excellent application of the RV as Rick suggests.

Peace
PJ
PJ... I haven't looked at the 1993 patent. I've seen the 1999 patent and yes the replication is not at all like the newer patent shows. It's still rather impressive for a 4" rotor 2 7/8" long thou. Since the pump is not really a pump at all I don't think the inlet and the oulet matter. If you drill the bores straight in the rotor, I don't think direction of rotation matter, CW or CCW should work equally as well.. (I could be wrong) If the "water drive disc" in my design doesn't do the job, I think maybe a Tesla pump would work out in this application.?? Running off the shaft of the "cavitaion pump" ,turned by the same motor.

Rick... I went back to the Hydro Dynamics, Inc. web sight once again and looked closer at the "product pictures" page, some of there units are cappable of 400 degree heat and 300 PSI. A Tesla motor, big enough using that much pressure and heat, should be able to sustain the pump. I know the electric motors they show in the picture look huge, but a medium size (12" rotor) Telsa motor is supposed to be capable of plenty of HP.

got ya thinking now....

Paul
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:09 AM
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sigzidfit sigzidfit is offline
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rileydad48,

I was thinking more in terms of direction of flow and pressure differentials rather than rotation of the shaft. Yes you are correct it isn't a pump. Thus the need for added pressure. (Hint: The boiling point [i.e. amout of heat it will hold] of water varies with pressure. lower at low pressure higher at high pressure)

Speaking of Tesla disc turbines, I believe he saw them ultimately as heat engines. Discs with dimples might cavitate.

While I have no first hand knowledge of SPR's running in the field, I'm pretty sure that in the oil patch they use them for spot heating of water.

Don't forget to investigate the Frenette and Perkins devices for clues, they we're similar and worked by the same principle.

$0.02

Peace
PJ
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Old 09-08-2009, 03:42 AM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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rileydad48

Speaking of Tesla disc turbines, I believe he saw them ultimately as heat engines. Discs with dimples might cavitate.


$0.02

Peace
PJ

PJ..

After reading about Tesla's motors and pumps and discussing it on the forum in the "Friction heater" thread, I wondered about why you couldn't reverse the effects of the turbine. The working turbine he set up at a steam plant used 300 degree heat @ 125 Psi. After going thru the turbine
the resulting pressure was almost 0 or one atmosphere and the temperature
was less than half of what entered. I realize that when the temperature is reduced in steam, the pressure will also be reduced, but I wondered how you could reverse the process. Maybe the dimples in the discs might be one way to do that.. now you got me thinking... It should be a new thread.. I've got my hands full right now, I really want to get this pump off the drawing board and in the lathe. I should be ready to start turning pretty soon. Got the bearings, the seals and a big chuck of aluminum. Need some steel and a shaft and I'll be ready to go.

Too much to think about and too little brain power... where's the other 90%
when you need it.. LOL

Paul
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:27 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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The one thing I like about the pump is it is an on demade type unit. Now with the invent of perminit magnets placed into 3 phase motors and the works of Stanley Meyer almost being solved, I think this pump is worth everything.

When I am done with Stanley Meyer's work I will also build this type of pump for I will be making my own electricity, and will want to get ride of the gas type water heater. I will make the pump's holes from a different shape more in line with the thinking of Viktor Schauberger's work. The whole line of thinking for me is energy independence, so I have to get the best of the best to make sure I will be self reliant in the near future to come. I also think I figured out the hummingbird motor, that is where I think I will focuse my attentions on next after the water for fuel technology.

Best of luck to you and your efforts,

h2opower.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:29 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rileydad48 View Post
I'm sure by now we've all seen the Griggs "Hydrosonic pump", but has anyone tried to build one or has information on "How" to build a similar pump to heat water. ?? I would like to try a replication. I've done some searches and read
the patent, but nothing specific to the actual build.. Can anyone help??

Thanks Paul
Here's a couple pics of what I've got done so far...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0124.JPG (489.3 KB, 166 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0126.JPG (554.2 KB, 135 views)
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:50 PM
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This looks amazing
I think everyone here would like to see some tests and some instructions on how they can replicate it.
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:00 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Originally Posted by nenadilic84 View Post
This looks amazing
I think everyone here would like to see some tests and some instructions on how they can replicate it.
Thanks... nenadilic84

I should have the casing and end plates done next week so I can try it out...
The Design Has changed considerablly since I started this. I will post the drawning with dimentions when It's done and tested.. !! Not gonna hold anything back... That's what this forum is for..
Paul
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:27 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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[ATTACH]IMG_0132.JPG[/ATTACH]
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Originally Posted by nenadilic84 View Post
This looks amazing
I think everyone here would like to see some tests and some instructions on how they can replicate it.
Well. I have all the parts made.. just need to assembly everything, hook up the motor and connect to water and the testing starts.. here's some more pic's of what's happened so far..

I'll keep you informed

Paul
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File Type: jpg IMG_0127.JPG (498.6 KB, 151 views)
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:44 PM
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nenadilic84 nenadilic84 is offline
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[ATTACH]Attachment 3871[/ATTACH]

Well. I have all the parts made.. just need to assembly everything, hook up the motor and connect to water and the testing starts.. here's some more pic's of what's happened so far..

I'll keep you informed

Paul
I'm speechless
Great stuff, I hope every thing will go as you planed. Keep up the good work...

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Old 10-15-2009, 07:12 AM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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Re: Pictures

Hi Paul,

Thanks for posting pictures of your progress. By now you may already have tried a test run, and it will be interesting to hear your results. It is difficult to see how the rotor is actually bored, but it appears that the drillings are straight in (90 degrees to a tangent on the surface). Is that correct? The depth of the bores, and shape of the bottoms can not be determined from the photos either, and perhaps you could elaborate on that. I do recall that the Griggs borings were done at an angle, and originally there was a video featuring still shots that showed a rotor set up for boring in a milling machine with the head tilted at an angle. That video was taken down soon afterwards, and to my knowledge has not resurfaced. The Hydrosonic Pump patent states that the angle offset, in one embodiment, is 15 degrees, and angled away from the direction of rotation. Bore rows are made at every 18 degrees of rotation, so 20 rows in all. A drawing of a 10 inch diameter by 4 inch long rotor shows bores that scale to 3/4 inch diameter, 3/4 inch in overall depth, and having a drill bit angled bottom. The patent also says that it is advantageous to make a flared lip where the bores meet the surface of the rotor, and that this produces areas of vacuum between the rotor and housing. This seems to be important in producing what Griggs calls the bubbly "shockwave" effect. The clearance between the rotor and housing is stated as 0.1 inch, which is probably right for water but would be wider if a heavier fluid, such as oil, is used. Rotational speed is said to be best at around 3450 rpm, with an inlet pressure of 65 psi and outlet pressure of 50 psi. It is important to keep the outlet pressure below inlet pressure, or the unit will not function well. There is no need for a separate pumping device, since the flow rate is determined by inlet water supply and outlet constriction. The patent suggests using water valves at both the inlet and outlet to adjust for best performance. I hope this info is helpful to you.

Wishing you good luck with your build,

Rick
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Old 10-15-2009, 04:56 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Originally Posted by rickoff View Post
Hi Paul,

Thanks for posting pictures of your progress. By now you may already have tried a test run, and it will be interesting to hear your results. It is difficult to see how the rotor is actually bored, but it appears that the drillings are straight in (90 degrees to a tangent on the surface). Is that correct? The depth of the bores, and shape of the bottoms can not be determined from the photos either, and perhaps you could elaborate on that. I do recall that the Griggs borings were done at an angle, and originally there was a video featuring still shots that showed a rotor set up for boring in a milling machine with the head tilted at an angle. That video was taken down soon afterwards, and to my knowledge has not resurfaced. The Hydrosonic Pump patent states that the angle offset, in one embodiment, is 15 degrees, and angled away from the direction of rotation. Bore rows are made at every 18 degrees of rotation, so 20 rows in all. A drawing of a 10 inch diameter by 4 inch long rotor shows bores that scale to 3/4 inch diameter, 3/4 inch in overall depth, and having a drill bit angled bottom. The patent also says that it is advantageous to make a flared lip where the bores meet the surface of the rotor, and that this produces areas of vacuum between the rotor and housing. This seems to be important in producing what Griggs calls the bubbly "shockwave" effect. The clearance between the rotor and housing is stated as 0.1 inch, which is probably right for water but would be wider if a heavier fluid, such as oil, is used. Rotational speed is said to be best at around 3450 rpm, with an inlet pressure of 65 psi and outlet pressure of 50 psi. It is important to keep the outlet pressure below inlet pressure, or the unit will not function well. There is no need for a separate pumping device, since the flow rate is determined by inlet water supply and outlet constriction. The patent suggests using water valves at both the inlet and outlet to adjust for best performance. I hope this info is helpful to you.

Wishing you good luck with your build,

Rick
Rick,
Thanks for the "good luck wishes". I have not had the time to test the unit as of yet, too busy at work right now .. I am very ancious to get the mounts made and hook up the motor for testing. Please keep in mind that I
really didn't make this unit, "to produce steam". With that being said.....

The rotor is 7.300" in dia ( this was determined by the pipe I used for the housing) and 6.00" in length. The holes are .500" in dia and .750" deep (total) They are chamfered at an angle of 84 degrees at a depth of .100" from the surface of the rotor. The holes are set every 24 degrees, which equates to 15 holes. Set at 1.00" apart, makes for 90 holes total. They are drilled straight, tangent to the surface of the rotor. The clearance between the housing and the rotor is set at .075" but can be adjust after testing,simply by taking another cut off the rotor.
The unit will be powered by a 2hp 3phase motor spining at 3450 rpms. Will look into a Roto-Verter if the unit works... (Thanks to You)
This is my rendition of Griggs' pump, after a lot of reading, watching videos and looking at other attempts. I put in a lot of thought as to what I wanted it to do and what I didn't want it to do.
As I said I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but you guys (and gals)
will get all the result, weather success or failure.. !!

Thanks again,

Paul

Last edited by rileydad48 : 10-15-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 05:34 PM
rileydad48 rileydad48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nenadilic84 View Post
I'm speechless
Great stuff, I hope every thing will go as you planed. Keep up the good work...

Nenadilic...
Thanks for the encouragement... I've got the drawings all updated, so if this works as expected and anyone is interested, they will be available to the Forum... So to all the guests... join this great forum !!!

Thanks again
Paul

Last edited by rileydad48 : 10-15-2009 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:11 AM
Alexicu Alexicu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rileydad48 View Post
Rick,
Thanks for the "good luck wishes". I have not had the time to test the unit as of yet, too busy at work right now .. I am very ancious to get the mounts made and hook up the motor for testing. Please keep in mind that I
really didn't make this unit, "to produce steam". With that being said.....

The rotor is 7.300" in dia ( this was determined by the pipe I used for the housing) and 6.00" in length. The holes are .500" in dia and .750" deep (total) They are chamfered at an angle of 84 degrees at a depth of .100" from the surface of the rotor. The holes are set every 24 degrees, which equates to 15 holes. Set at 1.00" apart, makes for 90 holes total. They are drilled straight, tangent to the surface of the rotor. The clearance between the housing and the rotor is set at .075" but can be adjust after testing,simply by taking another cut off the rotor.
The unit will be powered by a 2hp 3phase motor spining at 3450 rpms. Will look into a Roto-Verter if the unit works... (Thanks to You)
This is my rendition of Griggs' pump, after a lot of reading, watching videos and looking at other attempts. I put in a lot of thought as to what I wanted it to do and what I didn't want it to do.
As I said I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but you guys (and gals)
will get all the result, weather success or failure.. !!

Thanks again,

Paul
Hi rileydad48, I also very interested your design, so how about test did you got result how is it? and can you post whole picture....
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2010, 03:52 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Posts: 628
I built a small cavitation pump a couple years back to see if there was anything to it. And, it obviously does work but as stated it is only around 90% efficient overall depending on the motor used to drive it. I was getting close to 200 degree water from it - my motor wouldn't drive it to the point of steam. It was a fun project, I ended up building several rotors for it testing different angles, hole sizes and depths. Most of them ran about the same with only small differences.

It takes a considerable amount of power ( torque and speed ) to run these things so until there is a better method of driving the pump your probably better off adding some electric base board heaters and save lots of labor, materials and time.....
________
Homemade smoking devices for weed#i=78

Last edited by dragon : 07-20-2011 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 10-16-2010, 05:24 PM
wings wings is offline
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Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon View Post
I built a small cavitation pump a couple years back to see if there was anything to it. And, it obviously does work but as stated it is only around 90% efficient overall depending on the motor used to drive it. I was getting close to 200 degree water from it - my motor wouldn't drive it to the point of steam. It was a fun project, I ended up building several rotors for it testing different angles, hole sizes and depths. Most of them ran about the same with only small differences.

It takes a considerable amount of power ( torque and speed ) to run these things so until there is a better method of driving the pump your probably better off adding some electric base board heaters and save lots of labor, materials and time.....
To have cavitation on the holes it is important to reach the right tangential speed (from propeller design it is over 60 m/sec).
The cavitation depends also from local pressure.

Some suggestion to find the optimal design point :

Use a motor speed variation system or spindle speed converter in order to find the best rotational speed
Record Power Lathe Upgrades, DML-CL1-PK 4 Speed Pulley Kit Cl1/dml

Put a manometer on the stator in order to verify the actual pressure close to the rotor during test.

Use system in order to change the pressure (less pressure over the rotor more cavitation) like bypass or valve (only for test because reduce the efficiency - the best probably is to find optimum rotational speed ).

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Old 10-16-2010, 10:04 PM
wings wings is offline
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Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings View Post
To have cavitation on the holes it is important to reach the right tangential speed (from propeller design it is over 60 m/sec).
The cavitation depends also from local pressure.

Some suggestion to find the optimal design point :

Use a motor speed variation system or spindle speed converter in order to find the best rotational speed
Record Power Lathe Upgrades, DML-CL1-PK 4 Speed Pulley Kit Cl1/dml

Put a manometer on the stator in order to verify the actual pressure close to the rotor during test.

Use system in order to change the pressure (less pressure over the rotor more cavitation) like bypass or valve (only for test because reduhttp://www.energeticforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=113264ce the efficiency - the best probably is to find optimum rotational speed ).

Correction according to the reference document CAVITATION EROSION TEST:
with stagnator vanes, it is possible to reduce the rotational speed down to 25m/sec

http://www.imp.gda.pl/icet/REPORT/Rep02_RD03.pdf
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2010, 11:23 AM
Alexicu Alexicu is offline
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Posts: 3
Hi, I need your advice guys I am no so good in mechanical aspect.
I want to build to heat green house. It is 20 meter to 18 meter size
and 3line metal pipe (diameter of pipe 7.5cm).
By using cavitation pump is it possible to heat green house?
can some one advice me about size and what kind of material I need to use?
thanks...

Last edited by Alexicu : 10-18-2010 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:07 PM
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rickoff rickoff is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 3,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexicu View Post
Hi, I need your advice guys I am no so good in mechanical aspect.
I want to build to heat green house. It is 20 meter to 18 meter size
and 3line metal pipe (diameter of pipe 7.5cm).
By using cavitation pump is it possible to heat green house?
can some one advice me about size and what kind of material I need to use?
thanks...
A cavitation pump is not the best method for heating a home (see post #4), and quite likely not the best for heating a greenhouse either. I'd suggest contacting member karl_palsness, who is an expert on greenhouses and could steer you in the right direction.

Rick

Last edited by rickoff : 10-19-2010 at 03:12 PM.
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