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  #1  
Old 08-20-2009, 03:39 AM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Tesla's mysterious Phantom Streams

Greetings all from South Florida...

For the last 10 years, I have been experimenting quietly with a little-pursued aspect of the work of Nikola Tesla - Pancake Coils. I have found some extraordinary properties of these coils, the most fascinating of all the incredible array of electrical discharges such coils can produce. To date I have wound more than 150 successful versions of these coils, and probably an equal number of failures (if not more). This work started after uncovering a series of hidden underground rooms from 1897 in the home of early Tesla Coil and X-Ray Pioneer Thomas Burton Kinraide.

Original Kinraide Coil Spark Photo

In Kinraide's home we found the earliest known Tesla Coils from the 1890s (built by Kinraide), and over 500 glass plate negatives of highly detailed rare electrical discharges. Kinraide is perhaps the only person in history to study (and understand) high frequency discharges to the degree of Tesla.



Over the last two years, I have been uncovering some very unusual traits of one particular form of discharge - the "Phantom Streams" - and many new and unusual experiments can be made with them.


Phantom Streams and peculiar sparks

I've been consistently reproducing Kinraide and Tesla's work in these areas, and have sold a few dozen of these coils to researchers around the world for further study.

I want to make it perfectly clear up front that I have not at any time encountered any forms of free energy in this research, or have ever encountered output powers greater than the applied input powers of these apparatus, or phenomena that can't be explained by traditional science. I say this in effort to be completely honest with my research. I'm not looking for free energy, my efforts have been to simply reproduce as closely as possible the work of Tesla and a few rare contemporaries as Kinraide. (I find a lot of people interested in Tesla attempt to run before they can walk...which is why I focus on his early work, where he obtained the bulk of his electrical knowledge). I have a working knowledge of over 350 antique apparatus from the 1890s, having collected these items my entire life. For the last decade my research has consumed an even greater amount of time than my normal 40-hour work week...well over 300 days per year into the long hours of night. Its been very rewarding, but has taken its toll on me
as it would anyone.

This past week I have finally reached the efficiencies claimed by Tesla with the capabilities of these coils - I have witnessed a complete 360 degree spherical mass of electrical discharges 24" in diameter from a coil consuming only 30 watts of power from a standard 110V circuit. This proves that just because a concept is old, it is far from archaic.

The discharges are too faint to be accurately captured on camera, but a good idea of their appearance in general is here:
Phantom Streams from Pancake Coil

The thickness of the streams can reach 1/4" or more when produced properly. I have a found a novel way of showing the faint streams presence on camera with the help of a special turn of the century Geissler Tube in this Youtube video:
YouTube - Phantom Streams from Pancake Coil documented using Turn of the Century Oscilloscope Tube

A technical analysis of the characteristics of these and other streams is being prepared. The whole formation of electrical sparks is exhaggerated in these streams and shown visibly for the first time in over a century. The brush discharge starts off oscillatory, but as power levels are small the rest of the discharge gives way only to the positively charged leaders of the sparks in a process normally happening too quickly to see in larger apparatus. I will be exhibiting many of these coils live at upcoming lectures in the future, along with scientific analysis of how they work from an engineering perspective.

The peculiarities of the discharges offer some insight into the possibilities of new applications for high frequency coils. They also offer some historical insight into the real work and research Tesla was doing in the mid to late 1890s in New York.

Jeff Behary
The Turn Of The Century Electrotherapy Museum
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:18 AM
tak22 tak22 is offline
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thank you Jeff!

this has to be one of the most rewarding and amazing 1st post in a thread
I've seen in quite a while, and I really wish I could get there to see your
accomplishments. thank you for sharing the results of your dedication.

I know you say it's not OU, but maybe you have some pancake coil insights
that might 'spark' an idea for someone else that's studying Tesla.

tak
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:38 AM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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amazing

wow ... underground rooms... ancient technology ...
current research..
This is an incredible story.

I think this sort of work is extremely valuable in that the ability
to visualize these field interactions, and arcs, the the effects
different coil geometries, etc. have, will lead to better inventions.

Certainly Tesla's bifilar pancake coil patent occurred because Tesla
could visualize what was occurring on a standard pancake coil.

Staying tuned...
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Last edited by morpher44; 08-20-2009 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:41 AM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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Original Kinraide Coil Spark Photo

In the first "Original Kinraide Coil Spark Photo" image you have above,
it would be interesting to know if the THICKER, BRIGHTER streams
are associated with a certain magnetic direction -- east-west or
north-south.

Why would these two ARC directions be more energetic around the
360 degrees of the coil? A curiosity.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:11 AM
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The skeptic's skeptic

I think it odd that by sheer coincidence someone with so much teslian technology experience would come along to the energetic forum, propounding the view that teslian technology can be explained by using hertzian waves, let alone claiming that teslian technology USED hertzian waves - right when people on this forum have begun working out that such statements couldn't be further from the truth.

Pls take a look at the hairpin circuit, and use scalar waves (tesla's radiant energy) with tesla's coils.

Or at least read Meyl's scalar wave book, available for free from google books

Love and light
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Last edited by Inquorate; 08-20-2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: I came on a bit strong
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:03 AM
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hertzian waves vs Tesla waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
I think it odd that by sheer coincidence someone with so much teslian technology experience would come along to the energetic forum, propounding the view that teslian technology can be explained by using hertzian waves...
Ah but Tesla technology uses both Scalar "Longitudinal" waves
and Hertzian "Transverse" waves.
I think what is needed next is a way to visualize the Scalar waves.

The "Borderland Science" video on this topic was excellent.

I think that "mutual inductance", when added to the mix in any circuit
makes the math and physics so complicated and non-linear ...
that this is all still very much a mystery.
Most of our electronic formulas are the steady-state, linear
phenomenon only.
The physicists are FAR ahead as Beardon points out.

But for us mere mortal inventors, we need ways
to visualize what is happening so that we can work
out how best to exploit the electric "fluid".

Also, NMR is quite interesting in that electrons have one
frequency (one color as it were) and protons have another.
So if these appear as colors in the ARC, they should appear
differently ... one yellowish, the other blue/purplish ..

To see the scalar on the ARCs, you would look for a long
streamers with interference patterns or something ...
standing waves. Still photography is cool ... but
a "motion picture", showing movement and arcs in slow-mo
with respect to a known time frame ... way better.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:14 AM
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Phantom Streams theory

It is well known that ARC can occur in air when the
voltage reaches a certain threshold to cause
dielectric breakdown:

Electrical breakdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is also well known that all sorts of particles arrive to the planet
from outer-space on a random basis through-out the day and night.

Could these so called "phantom streams" be caused by a
high-energy particle passing by, ionizing the air, reducing the
break down threshold to a lower voltage in at that one moment
causing the ARC to happen at that PLACE with higher
energetics ... than at other places around the coil?

Just a theory.
To test this theory, you would need a means of ionizing
artificially at a certain region of your coil and then
take photos as above to see if ARC occurs at that
location more dominantly.

Other ideas?
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
I think it odd that by sheer coincidence someone with so much teslian technology experience would come along to the energetic forum, propounding the view that teslian technology can be explained by using hertzian waves, let alone claiming that teslian technology USED hertzian waves - right when people on this forum have begun working out that such statements couldn't be further from the truth.

Pls take a look at the hairpin circuit, and use scalar waves (tesla's radiant energy) with tesla's coils.

Or at least read Meyl's scalar wave book, available for free from google books

Love and light
Hi Inquorate,

The illustrations and information on the "Tesla Hair Pin" came from the book "The Inventions, Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla" By Thomas Commerford Martin and Nikola Tesla


"The Inventions, Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla"

Published in 1893, great book all 493 pages !!

Best Regards,
Glen
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:17 PM
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@Inquorate

Please try to calm down your paranoia.

I was away from this forum for quite some time and I'm thrilled to see Jeff joining it. I've been communicating with Jeff for number of years and I can tell you that he very well knows what he is talking about as well as having extensive practical experience. I build quite a few large Tesla transformers and for the past few years I never seem to be able to find some time to build pancake coils like Jeff's. However I did find some other people in Europe who built them and also got some very interesting results. And all within the classical Tesla coil theory.

As for the Meyl's work- you really should take things that he is telling with a grain of salt. His system is not even similar to Tesla's except for the large spherical capacitance he uses and it doesn't work if grounded. It's pretty obvious why that is- and let me tell you he was quite pissed when I mentioned that to him. I won't go into further details everything is quite obvious if you look at his setup and his theories.

If you're interested about Tesla's technologies like wireless (or rather single wire transmission) you really should look into works of Strebkov, Zaev and Avramenko. They are doing it quite regularly on quite a large scale in Russia. Aside from work by Dollard I'm yet to see anybody achieving some resuls even close to Tesla's.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:26 PM
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@jeff_behary

Can you describe what is needed to create such discharges ? Do you mean you were able to reproduce all 5 kinds of Tesla discharges ?
Did you also reproduced St Elmo's fire like discharge ?
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:57 PM
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Wow good.

Would you know if is possible establish similarities with this sparks structure and vacuum fractal holographic structure of the vacuum?

Looking the main root of the spark this has many smaller and this smaller another smallest. Seems Holographic
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:23 PM
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fractal

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Wow good.
Looking the main root of the spark this has many smaller and this smaller another smallest. Seems Holographic
Actually, "fractal" is the world I would use.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:59 AM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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An eccentric skeptic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
I think it odd that by sheer coincidence someone with so much teslian technology experience would come along to the energetic forum, propounding the view that teslian technology can be explained by using hertzian waves, let alone claiming that teslian technology USED hertzian waves - right when people on this forum have begun working out that such statements couldn't be further from the truth.

Pls take a look at the hairpin circuit, and use scalar waves (tesla's radiant energy) with tesla's coils.

Or at least read Meyl's scalar wave book, available for free from google books

Love and light
I will never claim to make sense as an experimenter, and definately do not mean to offend anyone if I disagree with certain views.

I'm not a physicist in any form. I'm a machinist and junk collector. Having an underground museum and home open to the public (and receiving visitors after work sometimes until 2am) has opened my eyes a lot to just what sort of people are interested in Tesla. Its unreal how diverse and interesting the Tesla crowd has become as more and more people become aware of who he was. (We've had writers, doctors, medical associations, the FBI, beauticians, students, professors, nudists, and the occasional dominatress) (

In the past though, there tended to be 2 general types of [more or less] extremists (and I'll joking use some extreme imagery to paint their portraits):

One was insistent that everything on the planet was a government conspiracy, and that if you carve an eggplant into the shape of a martian and stick a piece of wire in it you can power the whole city for free.

The other was absolutely convinced that Tesla Coils offer nothing new and can be explained 100% on paper so at the end of the day there is no reason to even build anything or experiment because everything there is no know is known and if it we switch on a coil for even a second we'll die of ozone inhalation and UV radiation from the spark gap, as well as get arrested by the FCC.

(There is a similar set of opposite folks in the medical arena, but I'll save that analogy for another day).

I am trying, by experimentation, to not be either one of those people...
but one can hardly claim sanity or rationality having an "electrotherapy museum"...completely agreed.

Hertzian waves definately do NOT explain everything, and that's part of what I'm doing here. The discharges and effects I am attempting to document are taking into account many things that the average electrical engineer overlooks. I've found that the materials used by Tesla are one of the most important parts of his discoveries, and are often completely overlooked in research today. Its one of my biggest arguments to offer. Silk-covered wire, ebonite or hard rubber, beeswax, rosin, all things considered archaic from a modern perspective have some really special properties at high frequencies...

Jeff
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:23 AM
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Dear Mr Jeff Behary,

Thank you for your glorious work! I am a regular visitor to your website and am always checking out the "whats new" section. I also have seen your presentation given at the ExtraOrdinary Technology Conferance and have taken good note.

I agree that pankake coils are an under-exploited area in regards to Tesla Coils and study into their mysterious effects. I also believe they are a excellent driver or "secondary coil" to drive an "extra coil", as you have done. Or even extra coil themselves.

Your Photogaphy work of spark effects are second to none as far as I have seen! Many of your photos grace my desktop backgrounds on my PC. Thankyou!

Also you understand the importance of sparkgap types, spark mediums and tuning a coil with appropriate capacitor(s).

Have you done any work with Mercury and oil spark gaps? I.e. Disruptive discharges, excluding the air? I plan to experiment with this soon and to build more pancakes!!

Thankyou for you excellent website and first class construction in all of your work!
With Kind Regards..
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:30 AM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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An eccentric skeptic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
I think it odd that by sheer coincidence someone with so much teslian technology experience would come along to the energetic forum, propounding the view that teslian technology can be explained by using hertzian waves, let alone claiming that teslian technology USED hertzian waves - right when people on this forum have begun working out that such statements couldn't be further from the truth.

Pls take a look at the hairpin circuit, and use scalar waves (tesla's radiant energy) with tesla's coils.

Or at least read Meyl's scalar wave book, available for free from google books

Love and light
I will never claim to make sense as an experimenter, and definately do not mean to offend anyone if I disagree with certain views.

I'm not a physicist in any form. I'm a machinist and junk collector. Having an underground museum and home open to the public (and receiving visitors after work sometimes until 2am) has opened my eyes a lot to just what sort of people are interested in Tesla. Its unreal how diverse and interesting the Tesla crowd has become as more and more people become aware of who he was. (We've had writers, doctors, medical associations, the FBI, beauticians, students, professors, nudists, and the occasional dominatress) (

In the past though, there tended to be 2 general types of [more or less] extremists (and I'll joking use some extreme imagery to paint their portraits):

One was insistent that everything on the planet was a government conspiracy, and that if you carve an eggplant into the shape of a martian and stick a piece of wire in it you can power the whole city for free.

The other was absolutely convinced that Tesla Coils offer nothing new and can be explained 100% on paper so at the end of the day there is no reason to even build anything or experiment because everything there is to know is known and if we switch on a coil for even a second we'll die of ozone inhalation and UV radiation from the spark gap, as well as get arrested by the FCC.

(There is a similar set of opposite folks in the medical arena, but I'll save that analogy for another day).

I am trying, by experimentation, to not be either one of those people...
but one can hardly claim sanity or rationality having an "electrotherapy museum"...completely agreed.

Hertzian waves definately do NOT explain everything, and that's part of what I'm doing here. The discharges and effects I am attempting to document are taking into account many things that the average electrical engineer overlooks. I've found that the materials used by Tesla are one of the most important parts of his discoveries, and are often completely overlooked in research today. Its one of my biggest arguments to offer. Silk-covered wire, ebonite or hard rubber, beeswax, rosin, all things considered archaic from a modern perspective have some really special properties at high frequencies...

Jeff
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:10 AM
iret iret is offline
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Very interesting!

Hi Jeff it has been a while...

Curious whether a barrier such as metal, glass or wood between the coil terminal and gas tube would stop the lighting effect.

Cheers,
Ewan
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:44 AM
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Meyl Dollard etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty View Post
@Inquorate

Please try to calm down your paranoia.

I was away from this forum for quite some time and I'm thrilled to see Jeff joining it. I've been communicating with Jeff for number of years and I can tell you that he very well knows what he is talking about as well as having extensive practical experience. I build quite a few large Tesla transformers and for the past few years I never seem to be able to find some time to build pancake coils like Jeff's. However I did find some other people in Europe who built them and also got some very interesting results. And all within the classical Tesla coil theory.

As for the Meyl's work- you really should take things that he is telling with a grain of salt. His system is not even similar to Tesla's except for the large spherical capacitance he uses and it doesn't work if grounded. It's pretty obvious why that is- and let me tell you he was quite pissed when I mentioned that to him. I won't go into further details everything is quite obvious if you look at his setup and his theories.

If you're interested about Tesla's technologies like wireless (or rather single wire transmission) you really should look into works of Strebkov, Zaev and Avramenko. They are doing it quite regularly on quite a large scale in Russia. Aside from work by Dollard I'm yet to see anybody achieving some resuls even close to Tesla's.
I have a feeling there are people who know me here, but I have yet to figure out who everyone is. The pancake experimenters are few are far between.

I've seen bits of Dollard's videos but nothing in depth. A few videos are online but of difficult quality to enjoy. Dollard was using a classic Diathermy machine to power his Pancake coils for the experiments. I am surprised how few people know what they're looking at here as far as the machine itself is concerned, and what the outputs signify that he's plugging his devices into. I would be willing to offer some insight on some of the experiments he does in the video if someone can lend or send me to a clear copy of the video. I have a half dozen or so variations of the same Diathermy machine.

I have a unique tie with the company that made the Spark Gap Diathermy he was using. An 80-foot truck arrived one day with the company archive - including over 6000 original hand-drawn blueprints to high frequency machines and X-Ray apparatus. H. G. Fischer & Company was the only medical apparatus company from Tesla's time to actually survive history, 1910-2007. Their machines were never banned, the FDA never shut them down, and they remained the sole survivor when more than 100 similar companies closed shop or were shut down, sued, etc... The secret was integrity. They sold Tesla coils and related electrical apparatus for medical use and never once hid behind a disclaimer of any kind. Their apparatus were engineering marvels of whatever time period they were made - from beginning to end.

There are a few experiments I've seen at conferences that are very cleverly executed, esp. with "grounding wires". I specifically noticed during one fellow speaker's lecture that there was a common ground between a pair of sending/transmitting coils, and a neon pilot lamp lighting on the "receiving" coil showing "energy received". What I didn't see was an actual "rf ground" of the circuit in a normal sense (ie, wire to a water pipe, etc). ...a potential "for potiential", so to speak...

I recall a very clever Tesla Coil I that "proved without any shadow of a doubt" free energy. It was a bipolar horizontal Tesla Coil that drew power from the earth. It had two secondary coils joined in the middle floating inside of a common primary coil. You could literally short-circuit the ends of the secondary coils and draw sparks & arcs several inches long from the midpoint of the coils, which in all usual cases is a ground connection or at near zero potential. It was a spectacular show, and I admire the man for the cleverness he used to do this - because noone caught on for a moment what the secret was. (I often wonder if he himself knew what the secret was...I did this accidentally once with a pair of Pancake Coils and was scratching my head for an hour until I realised what my mistake was...)

Looking very close at the circuit, the coils were wound so that both poles produced a spark of the same sign instead of opposite signs as normal. This can be accomplished by a clever manipulation of the direction in which the coils are wound, and when fine wire is used its not something noticeable at all. When the ends of the coil were shorted, instead of "shorting", the coils acted really as two coils wound in parallel (the mid points were already connected, and now the endpoints were too). The mid-point of the two coils suddenly became the highest voltage, because electrically the secondary coils were now "floating"...(the arcs in this case would only occur from the midpoints to either end of the coil, but not from end to end!) Since the coils were floating, both centerpoints and the [now connected] end points are active sparking poles, but the clever creator has another brilliant trick in his design. The ends of the coils each had a large sphere for the topload, which was now acting as a ground because of the spheres' capacity! It prevented the appearance of a brush discharge on the ends of the coil, yet when the operator approached a metal rod the mid-point the whole middle section gave way to a torrent of sparks! Amazing! It was one of the most clever tricks I've seen in a long time.

The topic of arcs and sparks of same polarity is a fascinating study in itself. High frequency brush discharges of the same sign actually repel each other, as do magnets of the same polarity. Its an amusing thing to see, and might be of interest for some investigations. Repelling sparks!

Jeff Behary
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iret View Post
Hi Jeff it has been a while...

Curious whether a barrier such as metal, glass or wood between the coil terminal and gas tube would stop the lighting effect.

Cheers,
Ewan
Ewan -
It is interesting. The streams are stopped by external objects in their path (like the glass walls of the tube in the video), but unlike normal brush discharges and corona effects they don't seem to take preference to what they're hitting. To give them a bit of personality, they seem indifferent to their surroundings, and stopping them at one location doesn't imply a migration of the remaining streams away from their current paths.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:25 AM
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bipolar tesla coils

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_behary View Post
The topic of arcs and sparks of same polarity is a fascinating study in itself. High frequency brush discharges of the same sign actually repel each other, as do magnets of the same polarity. Its an amusing thing to see, and might be of interest for some investigations. Repelling sparks!
Jeff Behary

Bipolar Tesla coils. Wow! You learn something new every day.
Thanks.
I found this:

YouTube - Bipolar tesla coil
YouTube - Gemini Demo Video - Large Bipolar Tesla Coil
Bipolar Tesla Coil
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:30 AM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Spark Gaps...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputins View Post
Dear Mr Jeff Behary,

Thank you for your glorious work! I am a regular visitor to your website and am always checking out the "whats new" section. I also have seen your presentation given at the ExtraOrdinary Technology Conferance and have taken good note.

I agree that pankake coils are an under-exploited area in regards to Tesla Coils and study into their mysterious effects. I also believe they are a excellent driver or "secondary coil" to drive an "extra coil", as you have done. Or even extra coil themselves.

Your Photogaphy work of spark effects are second to none as far as I have seen! Many of your photos grace my desktop backgrounds on my PC. Thankyou!

Also you understand the importance of sparkgap types, spark mediums and tuning a coil with appropriate capacitor(s).

Have you done any work with Mercury and oil spark gaps? I.e. Disruptive discharges, excluding the air? I plan to experiment with this soon and to build more pancakes!!

Thankyou for you excellent website and first class construction in all of your work!
With Kind Regards..
That is really nice to hear. In the case of the Phantom Streams, I can only hope one day to capture their real beauty by photograph.

Mercury Spark Gaps. I dream of one day constructing the most important patents Tesla devised at the end of the 1890s...his "Circuit Controllers".



I've spent what has felt like an enternity a few years back making renderings of how I felt these worked from Tesla's patents. Its my dream to one day be able to afford to construct them. I have absolutely no doubt that these circuit controllers could revolutionise the efficiency of high frequency apparatus, and even hold their own against the very impressive solid state work in Tesla Coils that's only just now advancing to great levels.

Disruptive discharges at various pressures is something I'm now exploring, but slowly. I have two pump-down Crookes tubes about 16" long, but am in need of a serious vacuum pump for much of what's needed - and this is not something easy to find (or afford).

I have experimented a great deal though with the disruptive discharge coils (ie, self-induction coils with simple interrupters):

and have only just now been exploring hydrogen quenched gaps. Initial experiments were done by injecting turpentine spirits and alcohol into the spark gaps.

These gaps would appear to work better with lower frequencies and voltages where large caps are used (1/2 mfd). To continue this research I will have to build some low frequency pancake coils, thousands of turns each instead of hundreds...and this is very tedious. I am still very partial to tungsten spark gaps with some form of heatsinks mounted to them. I have spark gaps 80 - 90+ years old that are still working fine made this way.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:53 AM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Spark Discharges...

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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
@jeff_behary

Can you describe what is needed to create such discharges ? Do you mean you were able to reproduce all 5 kinds of Tesla discharges ?
Did you also reproduced St Elmo's fire like discharge ?
Brush:

Phantoms:

Partially-Static:

Holtz-Machine like:

Hot Flaming:

Thin Threads:

Crashing:

Interposing Dielectric (2" thick glass)

Spiral Ribbon:

and last, but not least,
Elmo's Hot Fire (ie, escaping gas jet discharge)


It took forever to compose this post because I can't even find stuff on my own site! Happy to answer questions on any of them.

Jeff
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:00 AM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Fractals

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Originally Posted by patmac View Post
Wow good.

Would you know if is possible establish similarities with this sparks structure and vacuum fractal holographic structure of the vacuum?

Looking the main root of the spark this has many smaller and this smaller another smallest. Seems Holographic
These acrylic pieces were made by my friend Bert Hickman, who sells them online. [Stoneridge Engineering]. Fractals are an excellent way of describing the discharges, some of these patterns look identical! These were charged in a linear accelerator and then discharged in a loud bang producing "captured lightning" as a result...



Fascinating stuff!
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:33 AM
iret iret is offline
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I've seen bits of Dollard's videos but nothing in depth. A few videos are online but of difficult quality to enjoy. Dollard was using a classic Diathermy machine to power his Pancake coils for the experiments. I am surprised how few people know what they're looking at here as far as the machine itself is concerned, and what the outputs signify that he's plugging his devices into. I would be willing to offer some insight on some of the experiments he does in the video if someone can lend or send me to a clear copy of the video. I have a half dozen or so variations of the same Diathermy machine.
Didn't know you were into Dollard's stuff. I have an exact replica of it I would say close to 95% accuracy in term of the structure, material and brand of the components. I believe you seen it before... Let me know if you are really interested in duplicating it as you can do more with your larger precious junk stockpile

Quote:
The streams are stopped by external objects in their path (like the glass walls of the tube in the video)
Can it charge a capacitor/leyden jar(connected to an insulated metal piece) without any visible gas illumination ?
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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My chiropractor recently bought a device that says inspired by Tesla on it. Its called a Tensecredy (spelling) device. Its a pulsed spark gap mahine. You put a hooped large cable over different parts of your body and it sends a pulsed field you can feel. I've used it twice. You can adjust the intensity. You can feel your muscles twitch and thump when it pulses, feels strange. Not really sure if it helped with a shoulder problem I'm having.

Mark
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_behary View Post
Brush:

Phantoms:

Partially-Static:

Holtz-Machine like:

Hot Flaming:

Thin Threads:

Crashing:

Interposing Dielectric (2" thick glass)

Spiral Ribbon:

and last, but not least,
Elmo's Hot Fire (ie, escaping gas jet discharge)


It took forever to compose this post because I can't even find stuff on my own site! Happy to answer questions on any of them.

Jeff
Can you decipher which kind of spark it is ? :

"At the stage when the streaming discharge occurs, or with somewhat
higher frequencies, one may, by approaching the terminals quite nearly,
and regulating properly the effect of capacity, produce a veritable spray
of small silver-white sparks, or a bunch of excessively thin silvery
threads (Fig. 6) amidst a powerful brush—each spark or thread possibly
corresponding to one alternation. ibis, when produced under proper
conditions, is probably the most beautiful discharge, and when an air
blast is directed against it, it presents a singular appearance. The spray of sparks, when received through the body, causes some inconvenience,
whereas, when the discharge simply streams, nothing at all is likely to
be felt if large coducting objects are held in the hands to protect them
from receiving small burns."


and the next one :

"If the frequency is still more increased, then the coil refuses to give any
spark unless at comparatively small distances, and the fifth typical form
of discharge may be observed (Fig. 7). The tendency to stream out and
dissipate is then so great that when the brush is produced at one
terminal no sparking occurs; even if, as I have repeatedly tricd, the
hand, or any conducting object, is held within the stream; and. what is
mere singular, the luminous stream is not at all easily deflected by the
approach of a conducting body.
At this stage the streams seemingly pass with the greatest freedom
through considerable thicknesses of insulators, and it is particularly
interesting to study their behavior. For ibis purpose it is convenient to
connect to the terminals of the coil two metallic spheres which may be
placed at any desired distance, Fig. 8. Spheres arc preferable to plates,
as the discharge can be better observed. By inserting dielectric bodies
between the spheres, beautiful discharge phenomena tray be observed.
If the spheres be quite close and the spark be playing between them, by
interposing a thin plate of ebonite between the spheres the span:
instantly ceases and the discharge spread; into an intensely luminous
circle several inches in diameter, provided the spheres are sufficiently
large. The passage of the streams heats, and; after a while, softens, the
rubber so much that two plates may be made to stick together in this
manner. If the spheres are so far apart that no spark occurs, even if they
are far beyond the striking distance, by inserting a thick plate of mass
the discharge is instantly induced to pass from the spheres to the glass
is the form of luminous streams. It appears almost as though these
streams pass through the dielectric. In reality this is not the case, as the
streams are due to the molecules of the air which are violently agitated
in the space between the oppositely charged surfaces of the spheres."
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:13 PM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Dollard / Leyden Jars

Quote:
Originally Posted by iret View Post
Didn't know you were into Dollard's stuff. I have an exact replica of it I would say close to 95% accuracy in term of the structure, material and brand of the components. I believe you seen it before... Let me know if you are really interested in duplicating it as you can do more with your larger precious junk stockpile
I learned of Dollard later on. He did something odd but possible - which is powering a Tesla Coil with a Tesla Coil. From the few excerpts I've seen, he was powering a wireless lamp using radiated waves and a tuned receiving circuit.
I have replicated some of this but found that the lamps quickly dim as they are distanced from the source (espescially incandescent lamps). There is a famous photo of Mark Twain on my site in Tesla's lab holding a large impedance loop and lighting a lamp this way - the power supply was actually a similar loop placed under a black table cloth he was standing over. It was a spectacular image for a photo shoot in the early days of this experimentation. I know Tesla abandandoned this method early on for efficiency reasons, and went on to study the effects of propagating the waves through the ground rather than radiated in the air. (Gary Petersen is doing a lot of work in this area, but I don't really keep up with it - you might want to email him). I have seen in Electrical Experimentr a letter from a naval officer (as I recall) who used similar methods as Tesla for wireless communications on ships and praised him for his developments that allowed us some groundbreaking results in submarine communications.



(Note who is standing in the background, and those shelves that I'd die to get a closer look at.)

[On a sidenote that took me a while to figure out early on in my research, many 1890s (actually most) Tesla references to "wireless work" or "wireless sending and receiving" are generally referring to "wireless" communications, not wireless transmission of energy. Tesla did however forsee methods of using the same general apparatus for both.

---
Can it charge a capacitor/leyden jar(connected to an insulated metal piece) without any visible gas illumination ?
---

Yes, the Phantom Streams can definately charge leyden jars. You can see the streams in the dark, but not in the light. Simply the path of the streams will positively charge something (to a positive charge) . The suspended plate will also work for some distances, and this gets into another curious effect of the streams. While they can be seen clearly for 250 - 300mm as Tesla said in his lecture, they can be felt (or at least a static presence) detected by the hair on your arms, hands, etc. - a distance of sometimes 400 - 600mm or more. In this area, where nothing is visible, there is still a very scattered dispersion of the streams. The jar can still be charged, but to a much lower voltage and intensity. You can also draw some small sparks from the plate, sometimes painful, in the same way that an overhead lamp pull-chain or something metal in the vicinity of a normal operating coil can give an occasional surprise to the unsuspecting victim...
YouTube - Static Electric Machine made from Tesla Coil (Pancake Coil, Phantom Streamers)
I have a Youtube video of the streams charging a doorknob cap arrangement and retaining the charge after powering down. Believe me, this little 1" spark will knock you on your rear end on the same way it would if it were charged from a Wimshurst or influence machine. This is nothing to take lightly if you're replicating the experiment.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:50 PM
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lighty lighty is offline
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@Jeff

Check out my profile and you will very well know who I am.


As a side note- you're correct. Meyl's system will never work in real life because if you ground his "grounding wire" then capacitive coupling with common ground will immediately close the loop and no energy will be transferred from point A to point B. He is well aware of that limitation and he is still claiming his system to be same as Tesla's and in my book that makes his motives highly doubious.

On the other hand Tesla himself more than once explained his single wire and wireless system (in latter case it's pretty much same system but with ground used as a single wire). The frequency Tesla used never got over 40kHz (and that was the highest frequency he achieved any results with) in order to reduce EM dissipation to the atmosphere and to inject almost all of current into the ground. Last time I checked Meyl's device he was using ~5Mhz range and of course the dissipation of energy to the surrounding media was so strong that some people including me felt slightly sick after a few minutes in the vicinity of the device. So much for Meyl's "Tesla system reconstruction".

On the other hand resonant systems used by Strebkov, Zaev and Avramenko are working in exact frequency range and by almost exact specs as the Tesla's original system and they have no problem transfering kilowatts of energy to considerable distances without significant losses. All that without wires and using ground as a single wire conductor. I think some of their work has been translated to English but most of it is still in Russian and makes for quite an interesting read and is eye opening. All that and no Aether involved. Wow!


Anyway- I got sidetracked. I'm glad Jeff joined this community and I think he will feel at home since there are not so many lunatics here as on other forums like OU and some others. Thanks to Aaron for keeping this place "psychotics free".
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:33 PM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Phantom Streams vs. effluves

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Can you decipher which kind of spark it is ? :

"At the stage when the streaming discharge occurs, or with somewhat
higher frequencies, one may, by approaching the terminals quite nearly,
and regulating properly the effect of capacity, produce a veritable spray
of small silver-white sparks, or a bunch of excessively thin silvery
threads (Fig. 6) amidst a powerful brush—each spark or thread possibly
corresponding to one alternation. ibis, when produced under proper
conditions, is probably the most beautiful discharge, and when an air
blast is directed against it, it presents a singular appearance. The spray of sparks, when received through the body, causes some inconvenience,
whereas, when the discharge simply streams, nothing at all is likely to
be felt if large coducting objects are held in the hands to protect them
from receiving small burns."


and the next one :

"If the frequency is still more increased, then the coil refuses to give any
spark unless at comparatively small distances, and the fifth typical form
of discharge may be observed (Fig. 7). The tendency to stream out and
dissipate is then so great that when the brush is produced at one
terminal no sparking occurs; even if, as I have repeatedly tricd, the
hand, or any conducting object, is held within the stream; and. what is
mere singular, the luminous stream is not at all easily deflected by the
approach of a conducting body.
At this stage the streams seemingly pass with the greatest freedom
through considerable thicknesses of insulators, and it is particularly
interesting to study their behavior. For this purpose it is convenient to
connect to the terminals of the coil two metallic spheres which may be
placed at any desired distance, Fig. 8. Spheres arc preferable to plates,
as the discharge can be better observed. By inserting dielectric bodies
between the spheres, beautiful discharge phenomena tray be observed.
If the spheres be quite close and the spark be playing between them, by
interposing a thin plate of ebonite between the spheres the span:
instantly ceases and the discharge spread; into an intensely luminous
circle several inches in diameter, provided the spheres are sufficiently
large. The passage of the streams heats, and; after a while, softens, the
rubber so much that two plates may be made to stick together in this
manner. If the spheres are so far apart that no spark occurs, even if they
are far beyond the striking distance, by inserting a thick plate of mass
the discharge is instantly induced to pass from the spheres to the glass
is the form of luminous streams. It appears almost as though these
streams pass through the dielectric. In reality this is not the case, as the
streams are due to the molecules of the air which are violently agitated
in the space between the oppositely charged surfaces of the spheres."
The first quotation refers to the "effluves" or ionising of air using various shapes to direct the streams into a pattern, like a cylinder or cone or wall of ionised air.
I have a less than attractive demonstration of this.


These second quotation definately refers to the Phantom Streams. The thin stobing pale white discharges will gradually assume the fractal-like pattern shown in the previous pics I posted when the circuit is twiddled and thumped in small increments (changing the cap by small values, .001 or .0005 mfd, changing the current or voltage of the power transformer by a few mA or volts, opening the spark gap in 1/1000" increments. Its very bizarre to see the behaviour of these streams as such minute changes wouldn't immediately seem to matter - but the timing of the charging and discharging of a condenser when small currents are used can effect a great many changes in how the overall circuit performs. Tesla was using cylindrical coils to perform these tests, under oil - and I've found that the effects with Pancakes can greatly enhance their appearance. I am sure Tesla knew this or established the fact later on and simply didn't have the time or desire to publish it.

I take two tubes of thick Bohemian glass, about 5 centimetres in diameter and 20 centimetres long. In each of the tubes I slip a primary of very thick copper wire. On the top of each tube I wind a secondary of much thinner gutta-percha covered wire. The two secondaries I connect in series, the primaries preferably in multiple arc. The tubes are then placed in a large glass vessel, at a distance of 10 to 15 centimetres from each other, on insulating supports, and the vessel is filled with boiled-out oil, the oil reaching about an inch above the tubes. The free ends of the secondary are lifted out of the coil and placed parallel to each other at a distance of about ten centimetres. The ends which are scraped should be dipped in the oil. Two four-pint jars joined in series may be used to discharge through the primary. When the necessary adjustments in the length and distance of the wires above the oil and in the arc of discharge are made, a luminous sheet is produced between the wires which is perfectly smooth and textureless, like the ordinary discharge through a moderately exhausted tube.

In producing some of the effects from the lecture, Tesla mentions increasing and decreasing the frequency of the disruptive discharge, and many times a deciphering by experimentation is needed as to whether he is referring to the resonant frequency of the coil or the frequency at which the spark gap or break is operating. These produce very different results, and many people get confused. A coil will always resonate best at a given frequency. A spark gap is used only to regulate the voltage dumped into the coil. The frequency of operation is determined by the capacity and inductance - not the spark gap. Its true that a spark gap circuit doesn't provide a perfect stable frequency compared to solid state, but many times implications are made that a spark gap device gives a very broad range of frequencies all over the spectrum. If well-produced, it isn't nearly as inaccurate a device as its made out to be.

For Phantoms, I have found two different methods of producing them:
1: Using an excessively high voltage to continuously charge a cap and discharging through a short spark gap into a Tesla coil of few turns, producing a large amount of energy in the coil that is insufficient to produce long sparks but more than sufficient to completely ionise the surrounding air.
2: Using a lower frequency coil with an underpowered transformer of low voltage and very unsteady spark gap charged and discharged very slowly through the circuit.

Small changes in both circuits can effect the ratio of sparks vs. phantoms. While the phantoms offer little sensation, the sparks from the same coil if you get too close to the ball produce some strong muscle contractions and are more or less painful and capable of rf burns. In the former example of the plates, just as Tesla states the more steady the effluves the less sensation is produced. The moment thin sparks appear the effect becomes painful.

There is a fine line between the smooth even discharge that my mug's behind,
some pretty thin sparks that are far from pleasant if your hand is in the way,

and

which will put you out of commision from burns if you get tangled in it.

With these pretty experiments, it should be noted (very important) that the amount of ozone and nitric acid present in them is extremely high. Kinraide received rf burns severely during these experiments, with a slow-healing result similar to X-Ray burns. I have experienced some of these burns, which are painful, and the possibilities of developing skin cancer is great with these experiments due to the intense UV present at such close proximities, ie, right to the pores of the skin. It is analagous to getting a sun burn that blisters, and just like a sun exposure you don't feel it happening. The dehydrating effects of the effluves on the skin add to this greatly.

This led many people to the false conclusion (including him) that X-Ray burns were caused from the apparatus running the tube and not the radiation itself. (Even Tesla casually dismissed any dangers with X-Rays early on until one of his assistants was badly injured. He published a public apology for his previous writings, and offering some ideas on screening some of the secondary effects of the rays)...FYI...

"The potential may be raised by increasing, as far as the experimenter judges proper, the rate of change of the primary current...It occurs under these conditions that misty white streams break forth from the edges of the discs and spread out phantom-like into space. With this coil, when fairly well produced, they are about 25 to 30 centimetres long. When the hand is held against them no sensation is produced, and a spark, causing a shock, jumps from the terminal only upon the hand being brought much nearer. If the oscillation of the primary current is rendered intermittent by some means or other, there is a corresponding throbbing of the streams, and now the hand or other conducting object may be brought in still greater proximity to the terminal without a spark being caused to jump."

Jeff Behary
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:51 PM
jeff_behary jeff_behary is offline
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Ah, Croatia...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty View Post
@Jeff

Check out my profile and you will very well know who I am.


As a side note- you're correct. Meyl's system will never work in real life because if you ground his "grounding wire" then capacitive coupling with common ground will immediately close the loop and no energy will be transferred from point A to point B. He is well aware of that limitation and he is still claiming his system to be same as Tesla's and in my book that makes his motives highly doubious.

On the other hand Tesla himself more than once explained his single wire and wireless system (in latter case it's pretty much same system but with ground used as a single wire). The frequency Tesla used never got over 40kHz (and that was the highest frequency he achieved any results with) in order to reduce EM dissipation to the atmosphere and to inject almost all of current into the ground. Last time I checked Meyl's device he was using ~5Mhz range and of course the dissipation of energy to the surrounding media was so strong that some people including me felt slightly sick after a few minutes in the vicinity of the device. So much for Meyl's "Tesla system reconstruction".

On the other hand resonant systems used by Strebkov, Zaev and Avramenko are working in exact frequency range and by almost exact specs as the Tesla's original system and they have no problem transfering kilowatts of energy to considerable distances without significant losses. All that without wires and using ground as a single wire conductor. I think some of their work has been translated to English but most of it is still in Russian and makes for quite an interesting read and is eye opening. All that and no Aether involved. Wow!


Anyway- I got sidetracked. I'm glad Jeff joined this community and I think he will feel at home since there are not so many lunatics here as on other forums like OU and some others. Thanks to Aaron for keeping this place "psychotics free".
Croatia - Bok! Prijatelju! - I distinctly see the image of a copper egg in mind.

Now, 50 kHz or there about. That is some number. Well, I don't mean that frequency in particular, but the range around 50 kHz is very interesting.
I have one particular Tesla Coil that operates around this range, and the efficiency of everything about it is fairly exact to what Tesla proposed. I've ran it from around 30 watts and produced some 6" sparks that were no less than evil. The capacitor the machine used? .6 mfd. The caps Tesla was using in his table top models? 1/2 mfd. Hmmm.. Low frequencies.

For the few who know what these items are, what frequency does a Wehnelt interrupter operate near? Or how about a well-made mercury interrupter? Or how about a successful Poulsen Arc? And what frequency range does a good Telefunken Quenched spark gap sing volumes at?
Those points were made very clear by Nick during the Tesla - Marconi trials. Leland Anderson did a fine job as always in publishing that book. And why was the Alexanderson alternator not so well at 100 and 200kHz? Hmmmm........

And, the real kicker - what sort of prize does Poulsen deserve (well, at least in Tesla's eyes), in introducing a hydrogen gap, when his early lectures state quite clearly that the striking potential of the gap can be lowered by placing a small spirit lamp in the base of the box...

A few paragraphs of a rather annoyed Tesla speaks volumes and volumes and volumes... at 50kHz how it is much easier to hit the nail right on the head. How else could you explain a successful single 1/4" diameter tungsten spark gap operating at 1000V 1500mA and doing the job quite well at that.

Karlovacko, ...
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:00 PM
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FuzzyTomCat FuzzyTomCat is offline
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Hi Jeff,

I don't quite know what to say for one of the few times in my life ..... not many people in the world that live the word known as "dedication" and in your case it means more that anyone can imagine

I saw a article in a magazine "How To Build It" January 1932 - Vacuum Tube Tesla Coil Does Fascinating Stunts. I see you have the same article posted at your web site and at present there is a thread here at Energetic on my attempt to replicate this "Vacuum Tube" Tesla Coil - TOY I don't know if you know much on this device ..... but if you do your comments would be more that appreciated.

Best Regards,
Glen
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