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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
[..]
"Third. The most essential requirement is, however, that irrespective of frequency the wave or wave-train should continue for a certain interval of time, which I have estimated to be not less than one-twelfth or probably .08484 of a second and which is taken in passing to and returning from the region diametrically opposite the pole over the earth's surface with a mean velocity of about four hundred and seventy-one thousand two hundred and forty kilometers per second."

471240000 / 299792458 = 1.572 x speed of light

[..]
Well, this makes me wonder.

How can we be sure that this "Tesla wave" traveled over the earths surface? I am suspicious because the ratio of acquired speed is closely related to well known constant Pi [3.14159]. If we compare the distance to opposite side of sphere (ok, earth is not perfect sphere, but close enough), then distance through it would be "d" (from diameter), but distance around it (half the length of circle line) would be "Pi/2 * d". "Pi/2 = 1.571", awful close for sure.

I bet that if we would describe this situation as if the signal have traveled trough the globe rather than around, we would get precisely speed of light "c". Sad to say, but this proof of signal traveling faster than light doesn't convince me at all.

Btw, have read pretty much from Meyl too, haven't found anything better. My thoughts about him can be found in another topic, titled "Faraday vs Maxwell".
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:36 AM
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Meyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
As for speed of light, etc, morpher please read Meyl's book.
Love and light
Found it. Thanks
http://www.k-meyl.de/go/60_Primaerli...alar-Waves.pdf

Very interesting stuff.
This sounds a lot like Dr. Stiffler's work.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2009, 08:48 AM
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Fast Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehnoman View Post
How can we be sure that this "Tesla wave" traveled over the earths surface? I am suspicious because the ratio of acquired speed is closely related to well known constant Pi [3.14159]. If we compare the distance to opposite side of sphere (ok, earth is not perfect sphere, but close enough), then distance through it would be "d" (from diameter), but distance around it (half the length of circle line) would be "Pi/2 * d". "Pi/2 = 1.571", awful close for sure.
Yes yes. Makes sense. But ... I would be highly surprised
if the wave could go directly through the earth unless it was indeed
scalar, passing through all matter.
We don't know if Tesla assumed direct diameter distance or
circumference distance. He doesn't say I don't think.
Radio waves actually bounce up and down off the ionosphere
and might take LONGER -- slightly -- than a circumference distance.

I have puzzled, for years, over why the great pyramid of Giza
encodes PI/2 in the pyramid angle.
If you imagine the electro-magnetic wave going from center of base to
apex, and another wave going from center the outer circumference
-- if one is speed of light ...and the other is 1.57 speed
of light, they would arrive to the exterior
at the exact same time.
That would mean the geometry is perfect for standing waves
at some frequency derivable from the pyramid measurements.

Perhaps the pyramid can detect ... and convert ... scalar transmissions to transverse transmissions.

Last edited by morpher44 : 08-20-2009 at 09:05 AM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:02 PM
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journey to the other side of the earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehnoman View Post
I bet that if we would describe this situation as if the signal have traveled trough the globe rather than around, we would get precisely speed of light "c". Sad to say, but this proof of signal traveling faster than light doesn't convince me at all.
Tesla "estimated" 1/12 second -- 84.84mSec or so.
Regardless of the distance he assumed, his wave
would go out and come back with that phase difference.

Assuming speed-of-light, that is roughly
25,452,000 meters (15815 miles) round trip.

The diameter of the earth is 12,756,320 meters (7926.41 miles).

Hence, assuming speed of light, Tesla's estimate was
a wave that traveled 1.995 diameters of the earth.

This would imply that his wave was intended to go STRAIGHT through and back
again to arrive so fast. Had it traveled the circumference,
which is 40,075.16 kilometers (24901.55 miles),
he should have estimated 133.6mSec or so.

HE WAS HACKING THE PLANET!

Last edited by morpher44 : 08-20-2009 at 10:13 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehnoman View Post
Well, this makes me wonder.

How can we be sure that this "Tesla wave" traveled over the earths surface? I am suspicious because the ratio of acquired speed is closely related to well known constant Pi [3.14159]. If we compare the distance to opposite side of sphere (ok, earth is not perfect sphere, but close enough), then distance through it would be "d" (from diameter), but distance around it (half the length of circle line) would be "Pi/2 * d". "Pi/2 = 1.571", awful close for sure.

I bet that if we would describe this situation as if the signal have traveled trough the globe rather than around, we would get precisely speed of light "c". Sad to say, but this proof of signal traveling faster than light doesn't convince me at all.

Btw, have read pretty much from Meyl too, haven't found anything better. My thoughts about him can be found in another topic, titled "Faraday vs Maxwell".
You are right. That is exactly what Tesla stated. This scalar wave is propagating at c speed no more but directly through the Earth which is nothing more that a wire of big diameter. On Earth surface occur something which is flows faster then c and seems to be exactly like Tesla said - first infinite ,then slowdown to c then again being infinite.

Something like that maybe : Subluminal

Last edited by boguslaw : 03-08-2011 at 01:23 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2009, 09:38 PM
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Scalar waves speed

In : Besprechung des Abschnitts "Scalar Waves"

the author states:

Quote:
The wave equation belongs to the best-researched equations of the theory of the partial differential equations. An important sentence says that the signal speed of solutions cannot cross the speed of light.

There are no superluminal solutions, consequently also no superluminal zero-potential waves.
Quote:
Statement:
The scalar potential has a peculiarity: it propagates instantaneously everywhere in space, undiminished by distance.

Comment:
The zero-scalarwaves do not have this quality of the propagation at infinite speed in space certainly. Since with U is also -Ut, the Oschman's "scalar wave", a solution of the wave equation (8). However, after the theory of the partial differential equations the signal speed of the solutions of the wave equation is not bigger than the speed of light. In spite of the ineffectiveness of the zero-potential waves in the physical world a physical statement is possible here:

Oschman's "scalar waves" cannot spread out at superluminal speed.
So according to this scalar waves cannot travel faster than light.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2009, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomorph View Post
In : Besprechung des Abschnitts "Scalar Waves"

the author states:





So according to this scalar waves cannot travel faster than light.
I'll bet they can do some pretty neat things though..

We must not forget we are wading through theory and misinformation, experiments will sort the chaff from the grain.

Love and light
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2009, 04:48 AM
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Ball lightning

I was reading here:

Google Image Result for http://www.crystalinks.com/ball.lightning.jpg

that "Until February of 2006 there was no convincing laboratory demonstration of ball lightning. In that month, Israeli scientists announced that they had created a short-lived effect using the same technology found in microwave ovens."

Does anyone know more about this.

The theories mentioned here include:
" * that some stored chemical energy is slowly being released, providing
persistence and thrust.
* that ball lightning is some form of induction phenomenon.
(Ball lightning having allegedly been witnessed inside metal aircraft.)
* that the lightning is a Hill's vortex, like a smoke ring.
"
After watching Stan Deyo's lecture, it would seem
"vortex-smoke-ring" would be the idea promoted since
Deyo (and others) have made a convincing argument
that energy can be preserved in this way at it travels.
It would be DIRECTED and travel longitudinally.
Hence it would be scalar.

On a very close inspection of a spark between spark gaps,
I can see, at times, a vortex forming -- like a tiny
tornado.
I am sold on this idea that energy can be released in this way.
It seems perfectly logical that it could occur.

The solution to creating a vortex involves geometry only.

Here is a video that shows a possible "natural" ball lightning
event.

YouTube - Ball Lightning Weather Phenomenon

If this can happen in nature ... then scalar waves are real.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2009, 05:06 AM
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Another ball lightning candidate

YouTube - UFO Storm Part 2 - Dublin Ohio - June 2008 Is it a UFO or Ball Lightning?

About 50sec in..

We're going to fire up ren's hairpin circuit tomorrow, should have more on wether the detector picks up events while in the faraday cage

Love and light
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
Yes yes. Makes sense. But ... I would be highly surprised
if the wave could go directly through the earth unless it was indeed
scalar, passing through all matter.
[..]
Well, radio waves or Hertz waves, call it what you want, is not so weak. We know for sure that EM transverse waves at visible frequency (light) can't go through matter, but we don't have so intuitive knowledge about other frequencies, number of which is pretty high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
You are right. That is exactly what Tesla stated. This scalar wave is propagating at c speed no more but directly through the Earth which is nothing more that a wire of big diameter. On Earth surface occur something which is flows faster then c and seems to be exactly like Tesla said - first infinite ,then slowdown to c then again being infinite.[..]
Nice pictures, haven't seen them before. Kind of agree to some of them. But yet - we can't conclude about some "strange" wave existence from such circumstances. We must isolate the non-transverse EM wave, that is the only way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomorph View Post
Sorry to say so rude, but it is bull****. Wave equation itself doesn't say anything about speed of wave propagation. The speed of light limit is given by Maxwell-Heviside equations and postulated in Einsteins TOR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
[..]
We're going to fire up ren's hairpin circuit tomorrow, should have more on wether the detector picks up events while in the faraday cage
[..]
Yes, that is what I like more. As I said - we have to isolate that non-transverse EM wave. Faraday's cage is one good thing to start with. But - it have to be done right. You must ensure that the area inside cage is really shielded from outside world (one elegant way to prove that is to put cell phone inside and try to reach it - if it is out of coverage, then you have succeeded), and also don't allow any wires to enter or leave the cage, any measuring must be done inside the cage and power must come also from inside.

If then You acquire some sort of signal (and prove that anything inside the cage doesn't generate it), then it is really something.

Good luck!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 04:30 AM
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scalar antenna

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Originally Posted by Tehnoman View Post
If then You acquire some sort of signal (and prove that anything inside the cage doesn't generate it), then it is really something.
Good luck!
I admit I'm naive when it comes to scalar waves.
It seems to me that unlike transverse - hertzian waves,
a different sort of antenna might be needed to receive
LMD scalar waves.

I found this experiment very interesting:

The L.M.D./T.E.M.Test

The video for it was quite good as well.

This presentation implies that the LMD scalar wave
exits the TOP of the coil cylinder (if that is the coil shape you
are using).


It therefore might be appropriate to AIM the coil, similar to the
way you would aim a gun, with the coil mouth the exit point
for that sort of wave.
Yes I watch Warehouse 13. Fun show!!!
It should float out like a RING.
It will retain its spin circumference if the magnetic field
can be retained, as it travels though the natural environment.
When it HITs the Faraday cage shielding, it may dissipate all
around the surface of that material. If that material is
highly dense, atomically, like LEAD, it may not penetrate.
If its a thin aluminum shielding (turkey pans), it might ping
on the outside, but create an equal and opposite PING on the
inside which can be detected.

I suspect not enough is known about scalar waves and what
they can and cannot do.
I'm not convinced the faraday cage test is meaningful until
this is better understood.

I think the more interesting phenomenon is the over-unity phenomenon
if that can be shown to happen.
If more power is received than you sent, you have something important.

So I wouldn't get bogged down with Faraday cage experiments.
I personally would instead study the POWER implications of
scalar.

Last edited by morpher44 : 08-23-2009 at 04:34 AM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 05:01 AM
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Bogged down

@ morpher - I agree, it is not to get bogged down in Faraday cage stuff, but hopefully conclusively prove that scalar waves are of a different breed to hertzian waves.

if so, then we can debate the differences, but until we have experiments like this to show people, it is all theory and conjecture.

Ren's been held up today, I'll try get my hairpin up and running, else perhaps will be able to share more tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for the level of interest in this project, and above all the honest views being expressed.

Love and light
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
[..]
So I wouldn't get bogged down with Faraday cage experiments.
I personally would instead study the POWER implications of
scalar.
Of course. No one is saying that if Faraday cage experiment fails, You should drop it. But one of the most noted property of scalar waves is that it is able to go through Faraday cage shielding.

So the experiment would be simple and results - strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
@ morpher - I agree, it is not to get bogged down in Faraday cage stuff, but hopefully conclusively prove that scalar waves are of a different breed to hertzian waves.
[..]
Agree. More than that - conclusively prove that there is other kind of waves than Hertz transverse EM waves.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:49 AM
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Ok, detector flaw

The detector's magnetic field goes beyond the Faraday cage. That is a problem.

I fired up my 60kv circuit for it's RF hertzian waves, and even if the detector is in the cage, it still picks up a little bit of the RF.

I tried it with just a piece of wire looped on the end of the Oscilloscope probe, and the 'Faraday cage' stopped the RF radiations.

So, I wonder if scalar waves will be picked up by a simple coil??

Probably at least by a tesla pancake coil..

so, back to experiments which I love.

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:53 AM
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Just as a quick note here regarding the Faraday Cage.

Professor Lewin at MIT carefully tuned his AM radio to a strong nearby station and then carrying the radio he stepped into the Faraday Cage, which looked a lot like a bird cage. The radio lost reception - he stuck it outside the cage, then back in, back and forth, very clear that the cage stopped reception. The whole time during the demonstration he explained in detail by spoken words exactly what was happening. Standing inside the cage he stopped and paused and then said, "I know what you are thinking". He was wearing a wireless microphone, and inside the cage it worked fine. So he explained briefly that it had to do with the amplitude of the wave form and his microphone's waves could fit through the holes in the cage.

There are transverse waves, longitudinal waves and ... perhaps Scaler Waves. If scaler waves exist, they will pass through matter unfettered. However, if they pass through an EM box (electric field in the horizontal and magnetic field in the vertical or vice versa) then the fields in the box will change relative to the passing wave. The E field can be made from a large capacitor and the M field can be made from a Helmholtz coil. Detectors in the field will monitor the changes that the field experiences. A Scaler wave will effect both in simultaneity and will appear as a compression and decompression along the trajectory path of the wave. Maybe.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 05:27 PM
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Lewin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
Professor Lewin at MIT carefully tuned his AM radio to a strong nearby station and then carrying the radio he stepped into the Faraday Cage, which looked a lot like a bird cage.
I've watched many of Lewin's videos but somehow missed this one.
Thanks for pointing it out. Very cool.

YouTube - Faraday Cage
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 04:22 AM
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transmission via induction

Interesting demonstration:

"Two 120-turn coils are placed facing each other on the lecture table. One coil is connected to radio or other audio source and the other is connected to a speaker. The speaker will play audio from the radio when the coils are aligned."

http://scripts.mit.edu/~tsg/www/demo...=H%2031&show=0

Since magnetism - mutual-inductance will be attenuated only
slightly by aluminum shielding, I would expect this to function
just fine if the speaker and coil are placed in a Faraday cage.

You can clearly see the inverse square-law occurring, however, so this is NOT scalar waves.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 04:55 AM
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I think that the existance of scalar waves has been proven by Eric Dollard. Here's a link to the PESWiki page about him:

PowerPedia:Eric Dollard - PESWiki

There are links to his two videos on that page, and they are well worth watching. Even though the video quality is terrible, the information contained in them is terrific.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 05:19 AM
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proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus View Post
I think that the existance of scalar waves has been proven by Eric Dollard. ...
Even though the video quality is terrible, the information contained in them is terrific.
I've seen these and I agree these are excellent videos.
These old videos remind me of the DARMA Initiative in the TV series Lost.

The do many Tesla experiments yes ... but they don't necessarily
get to the bottom of the scalar wave phenomenon.

There appear to be very little in the way of actual demonstrations
of scalar wave phenomenon ... which is surprising.

Some ideas for scalar wave demos include:

[] transmission of energy or intelligence THRU Faraday cage (as mentioned
above)
[] reception of more power than was transmitted (COP > 1.0)
Bearden's notion of conservation of energy in 4-space.
[] creation of interference patterns and there effects on matter
and or gravity (aka Hutchison effect).
[] scalar antenna demonstration (assuming you have scalar detector first).
From
Scalar field theory (pseudoscience) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The goal of a scalar broadcast antenna is to create powerful
repulsion/attraction between two magnetic fields, to create large
scalar bubbles/voids. This is done by using a broadcast antenna
with two opposing electromagnetic coils that effectively cancel
out as much of each other's magnetic field as possible. An ideal
scalar broadcast antenna will emit no electromagnetic field (or as
little as possible), since all power is being focused into the
repulsion/attraction between the two opposing magnetic fields.
Normal electromagnetic theory suggests that since such a device
emits no measurable electromagnetic field, it is useless and will only
heat up. For a scalar broadcast antenna, any normal RF emission is
wasted energy."
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 03:59 PM
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Actually, in the second video they show a couple of very good demonstrations of longitudinal wave (scalar) vs. transverse wave effects, and they show circuit diagrams. BTW, I love how Wikipedia labels scalar field theory as "pseudoscience".

Now I know you can't just run down to your local Fry's and buy a multipactor tube, but still.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 05:49 AM
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Faraday cage failure

I can't get even a dual Faraday cage to stop the hertzian waves from penetrating to the Oscilloscope probes.

Also, the Ren and Inquorate scalar wave hairpin attempt bore little fruit.

So, some setbacks.. More pondering imminent.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:53 AM
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Inq,
This is just a suggestion and mightn't work however I remember last year in year 10 we had to do an experiment of our choice. I decided I would experiment what were the best methods for stopping EM to cell phones. A very simple way of blocking it is wrapping the cell phone in Al foil. Perhaps simply wrapping the probes in Al foil will do the job?

My 2 cents.

PS: I admire you're contributions to this topic
- Raui
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:19 PM
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Faraday cage

Ok, so here's where I'm stuck. If one is to make a scalar wave, one must use electrons in a circuit which makes hertzian waves??

If one wishes to determine if scalar waves were created, one needs to do two things:

1) detect scalar waves

2) not detect hertzian waves

So far, I can't verify if I've done 1, and I know I'm not doing 2.

Perhaps my next step will be lead shielding, or a more exotic detector of scalar waves which simply fails to register RF radiations.

I'm thinking lead shielding, unless anyone can imagine up something else??

YouTube - Faraday cage fails to screen RF radiations from detection by Oscilloscope probe

@raui - my pleasure, and reporting failures as well as successes can possibly help the group; I won't let go of this project until I or someone else achieves a viable & reproducible method of making a detector

love and light
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 10:28 PM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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shielding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
I can't get even a dual Faraday cage to stop the hertzian waves from penetrating to the Oscilloscope probes.
The scope probes must be shielded as well.

Further, it might be true that the scope itself should LIVE in
a faraday cage too and be powered by a supply quite
separate from your circuit.

The common-ground between your circuit and the scope
presents a problem-challenge.

Companies like Tektronix sell all sorts of wild & crazy & expensive
probes for scopes -- operative word here being "expensive".

You might be able to "convert" signals to light with opto-electronics,
rather inexpensively, and have a fibre cable over to your scope.
Let the scope be on the receiving side of the light beam, converting
back to voltage. This is probably a cheaper way to go and the
oscilloscope can probably live OUTSIDE a faraday cage.
Fibre cable may be easier to sheild electro-statically.

Last edited by morpher44 : 08-25-2009 at 10:32 PM.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2009, 02:40 AM
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sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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can you made the audible detector to make sound when there is rf detected?

How about putting portable radio inside faraday cage and electrocute it with your HV ?
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2009, 03:18 AM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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scalar wave detector article

Magnetic Scalar Waves

This was an interesting statement from the above article:

"I have been watching solar x-ray data and comparing it to gamma ray burst (GRB) data for several years. Not all GRBs can be detected by our satellites, but more often than not, the strong spikes in the solar x-ray data appear hours or days before GRBs arrive. This has proved to be a dilemma for NASA scientists, because the arrival of gravity waves in advance of gamma ray bursts suggest that Einstein's General Relativity theory is not entirely correct. Even worse (for Standard Model physicists), the arrival of gravity waves before the gamma ray photons implies the existence of Aether. There is no other reasonable alternative theory."

Last edited by morpher44 : 08-26-2009 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
Magnetic Scalar Waves

This was an interesting statement from the above article:

"I have been watching solar x-ray data and comparing it to gamma ray burst (GRB) data for several years. Not all GRBs can be detected by our satellites, but more often than not, the strong spikes in the solar x-ray data appear hours or days before GRBs arrive. This has proved to be a dilemma for NASA scientists, because the arrival of gravity waves in advance of gamma ray bursts suggest that Einstein's General Relativity theory is not entirely correct. Even worse (for Standard Model physicists), the arrival of gravity waves before the gamma ray photons implies the existence of Aether. There is no other reasonable alternative theory."
That there is poetry
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:42 AM
Tishatang Tishatang is offline
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Aether proved years ago, covered up

Here is link I recently found to the fact that Michelson-Morley was flawed and disproved years ago. A better scientist named Miller with better equipment and better experiments proved the existence of the aether.

Dayton Miller's Ether-Drift Experiments

Good article on the politics of science from the past. You can't believe anything written in textbooks because of hidden agendas.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2009, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
can you made the audible detector to make sound when there is rf detected?

How about putting portable radio inside faraday cage and electrocute it with your HV ?
I have been thinking of making it indicate audibly when it detects a wave; possibly not use the scope at all..

We'll see
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