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  #61  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:51 AM
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Hi Dave45

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Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
Morpher44 you still around?
Yes. Youtube is the best place to reach me....
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  #62  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:52 AM
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wow - Publication date Oct 3, 2012

Patent EP2505807A2 - Self-sustaining electric-power generator utilizing electrons of low inertial ... - Google Patents
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  #63  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:47 PM
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Excellent Morpher 44
Thanks for the link
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:51 PM
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LT superconducting wire
https://www.goodfellowusa.com/catalo...QuTM0sZXBVfbam
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:45 AM
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sacred geometry - 8 small circles around 1 large circle

File:Marsh-chapel-window.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:02 AM
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Heterodyne PHI Ratio Frequencies - DOH!

So over the holidays I started winding some Hubbard Coils again.
I absolutely KNOW -- somehow -- that Hubbard's PHI relationship matters,
so I took care to maintain that relationship between the diameter
of the center core and the 8 smaller cores.

Now playing around with my pulse-generator and my scope, I can see that these air core coils I made self-resonate at:
53mm diameter ~ 536.5Khz
32.76mm diameter ~ 868Khz
So that is interesting. The frequencies here maintain that PHI ratio.
It makes sense because Fr = 1 / (2*PI*sqrt(L*C))
and if you compute the ratio of the two Fr values, substituting
L*1.618 for one of them, you see that the frequencies will maintain
that ratio too. NOTE: Assuming the C value is approximately the same.

This is an interesting property -- and MUST have been intentional.
I did a quick search of the web for Frequency times PHI, and I found this
URL:

Phi: The key to zero point.

Hubbard you sneaky dude!!!!
I gotta build me this thing again.

The claim is that you can get 3x power over your input ...
and some replicators have claimed that they have gotten this.
If your coils are nicely matched here such that the PHI relationship
is maintained physically, with same turns on each coil,
you should be able to heterodyne the oscillations and
maintain this strange mathematical magic.
Wow!

--morpher44
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  #67  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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That awesome Morpher, could we tune in harmonics this way.
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  #68  
Old 01-04-2013, 04:00 PM
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Morpher you said it Wow!!!

The math here is over my head, but physically maintaining the PHI relationship within the coil structures, RINGS!! in my mind as brilliant thinking.

Best of luck with your build, Gene
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  #69  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
I absolutely KNOW -- somehow -- that Hubbard's PHI relationship matters,
so I took care to maintain that relationship between the diameter
of the center core and the 8 smaller cores.
--morpher44

Interesting, so you say that when starting of with only that in mind, you end up with a selfresonance of these coils also in the PHI relation (despite the number of turns (guess you keep them te same), the used spacing/wire and the length of the coils (guess also the same) and thus different inductances)?

Could you tell if the inductance of the different coils also are in the PHI relationship?

Regards Itsu
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:04 PM
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PHI squared

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsu View Post
Interesting, so you say that when starting of with only that in mind, you end up with a selfresonance of these coils also in the PHI relation (despite the number of turns (guess you keep them te same), the used spacing/wire and the length of the coils (guess also the same) and thus different inductances)?

Could you tell if the inductance of the different coils also are in the PHI relationship?

Regards Itsu
Calculating inductance can be done using the formula found here:

Inductance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Specifically:
L = u0 * N^2 * A / l

l - length will be the same for the big coils and small coils
N - number of turns -- keep this the same for big and small coils
u0 is a constant 4E-07 * PI (henries/m).

So we are left with A. A will NOT be the same and is calculate
by 2 * PI * (D/2)^2 where D is the diameter.

So we see that the radius are the PHI relation ship, yes, but the
square of the radius maintains the PHI^2 relationship.

Hence the two inductances maintain a ratio of PHI squared.
Make sense?
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:32 PM
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Waveforms with PHI ratios...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene gene View Post
Morpher you said it Wow!!!

The math here is over my head, but physically maintaining the PHI relationship within the coil structures, RINGS!! in my mind as brilliant thinking.

Best of luck with your build, Gene
Gene,

To simplify things a bit.... What Hubbard was simply trying to do, I believe, is create a coil that has a geometry that lends itself to self-oscillations that is self sustaining -- self reinforcing. We know that coil geometry plays a role in what inductance you get and what frequency you will self oscillate. That is well known. We also know that mathematically, PHI has a unique property where wave forms that are related with the PHI harmonic will self re-enforce.

Taking those two KNOWNs, what coil geometry would lend itself to being the most optimum to produce reinforcing oscillations?

What is "brilliant" here is that instead of just thinking about positive feedback using ONE frequency for an oscillator, we have this various powers-of-PHI thing going on here. Harmonics with PHI ratios?

So simple, so elegant. Why didn't I see this before. I've been thinking about this for 3+ years and couldn't see it.

It should be possible to create an oscillator that produces PHI ratio harmonics with this geometry.
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  #72  
Old 01-04-2013, 09:12 PM
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Make sense?

Hmmm, yes that makes sense.
PHI = 1.618033988

Doing it a different way confirms:
When i use the one outer coil with diameter of 50mm that means that the center coil needs to be 50mm x PHI = 80.9mm.
Taking the following values for nbr of turns = 90 and length of coil = 20cm i get:

outer coils 50mm 90t 20cm
center coil 80.9mm 90t 20cm

Calculating the inductance of these air coils with:
Coil Inductance Calculator - 66pacific.com

I get:
outer coils L= 89.6uH
center coil L= 221uH

The 221uH is close to the "outer coil L" x PHI^2 (89.6 x 2.6180) you proposed which is 234.5uH.

Finally calculating the selfresonance with:
CalcTool: RLC or LC circuit calculator

i get:

outer coils Res.= 5316.99Khz (L= 89.6uH / 1 Ohm / 10pF)
center coil Res.= 3385.51Khz (L= 221uH / 1 Ohm / 10pF) (When i use 234.5uH as L, i get 3286.61Khz)

The outer coils resonance should be at 5477.87Khz using the PHI relationship with center coil being 221uH (3385.51Khz), but
when i use L=234.5uH (3286.61Khz) i get 5317.84Khz, which is very close.
I guess the deviations (221 verses 234.4) are to be explained by the (self)capacitance of the coils which is bigger for the center coil

To be complete:

outer coils 50mm 90t 20cm L= 89.6uH Res.= 5316.99Khz (1 Ohm / 10pF)
center coil 80.9mm 90t 20cm L= 221uH Res.= 3385.51Khz or 3286.61Khz when using L=234.5uH (1 Ohm / 10pF)


Regards Itsu
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  #73  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:09 PM
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golden nuggets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsu View Post
Hmmm, yes that makes sense.
...
To be complete:

outer coils 50mm 90t 20cm L= 89.6uH Res.= 5316.99Khz (1 Ohm / 10pF)
center coil 80.9mm 90t 20cm L= 221uH Res.= 3385.51Khz or 3286.61Khz when using L=234.5uH (1 Ohm / 10pF)


Regards Itsu
Thanks Itsu.
Those web calculators may round up/down, etc.
Its probably better to work with the math in terms of equations and symbols and see what cancels, etc... trig.
Its pretty clear here, though, that he was thinking about the frequencies and the PHI relationship between them. The coils, when made, will be a bit imperfect -- implying you may have to TUNE adding or subtracting turns, or adding capacitors in parallel with the coil, etc. The machine being made, however, is trying to create these reinforcing frequencies that have the nice PHI relationship.

I've been thinking about this a bit this morning and there are possibly OTHER geometries to consider:

1. Russian Doll approach -- place cylinders inside each other with coils wrapped around them. With just TWO coils, you have a basic transformer. I have two coils with the PHI relationship. I tried this and to my amazement, if you pulse the bigger outer coil, the inner coil experiences a HUGE voltage increase -- ala Tesla coil. So why stop at two? Why not have several cylinders each with a PHI ratio diameter?

2. Pancake coils arrange on a cone with PHI relationship. Each flat pancake coil could have an inner diameter that allows it to sit on a cone structure @ its place in the PHI array. Next pancake coil down is is to have an inner diameter with the PHI^2 ratio, and so on. Each of these pancake coils should reinforce each other inductively, but do the very nice feature of transforming FREQUENCY. You would maintain in the coils the PHI^2 ratio for inductance, and the PHI ratio inner diameters (and outer diameters). This cone-stack-of-pancake coils might be interesting to experiment with.

3. Stack of Rodin coils - Why not create a CONE of Rodin coils, each made from torroids that maintain the PHI ratio with respect to diameter? Again we can create the self-reinforcing effect of waveforms and the frequency transformation.

4. We would need to work out whether or not 1-to-1 ratios for the transformers is necessary or whether or not you can get away with have voltage step-up/step-down by utilizing different turn ratios -- but preserving the PHI ratios where necessary. There essentially are various degrees of freedom here: Number of turns, turn ratios between coils, PHI-ratios for sizes of structures, etc.

5. Creating a circuit for a multi-frequency oscillator with each frequency being a PHI ratio harmonic of each other. Such an oscillator would probably BEST be made with these sorts of coils and there may be something about the magnetic fields interacting this way that is important The BEAT frequencies between these magnetic fields may turn natures key. Certainly human beings appreciate the beauty of PHI, as does nature.

I'm sure some of you creative folks out there can think of other ideas ... but I really really like this because it appears so simple.
It really points to the fact that we need to be reverse-engineering these MYSTERY devices. There can be little "golden" nuggets of truth in their design that although were not effectively communicated by the inventor, never-the-less, are expressed in the invention itself.

Cheers,

Morpher44
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  #74  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:56 PM
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Two frequencies problem...

In basic physics, there are formulas for two sine waves and how they BEAT to create a 3rd frequency.

This is a good link. See "Two Sine Waves With Different Frequencies"

Superposition of Waves

So given this equation, can you solve it such that frequency A
is the faster frequency, frequency B is 1.618 slower, and the resulting BEAT frequency, frequency C is 1.618 slower than B?

In other words, can you create a BEAT frequency from two PHI ratio sine waves that produces a wave that continues to maintain the PHI ratio relationship. If yes, than take C add it to B and produce D ... and so on.

Seems doable, right?
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:02 AM
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Hi M,

i can see that you are "thinking" about this stuff already for a long time.
I like your pancake coil idea (being populair nowadays), but have a hard time visializing this.
I have to reread it severall times i guess.

This signal (modulated) we see under: "Two sine waves with different frequencies: Beats" in your link above, we see also in these induction plate replications from JL Naudin, Woopy etc.

For now i will start simple by winding some air coils in the PHI relationship and do some measurments on them.

Thanks, regards Itsu.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post

So given this equation, can you solve it such that frequency A
is the faster frequency, frequency B is 1.618 slower, and the resulting BEAT frequency, frequency C is 1.618 slower than B?
I think that there is no control over the beat frequency.
It is the subtraction of the two main frequencies.

i.e. If you compare the sound from two frequencies which are
256Hz and 259Hz, then the beat frequency will be 3Hz.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:46 AM
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no control?

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Originally Posted by wrtner View Post
I think that there is no control over the beat frequency.
It is the subtraction of the two main frequencies.

i.e. If you compare the sound from two frequencies which are
256Hz and 259Hz, then the beat frequency will be 3Hz.
So you are missing the idea here a bit.

The interesting thing about PHI ratio frequencies is that they FIT better when the beat. Yes you can beat together any two arbitrary frequencies and end up with a resulting wave pattern that is "pretty" or "ugly" depending upon your choices. PHI is better than "pretty". It is pure beauty. I liken it to having two mirrors facing each other. You look in and see infinite reflections. You bend one mirror ever so slightly and the angles spiral off into infinity in a very fractal way.

Take two PHI ratio frequencies and beat them together and you have a new thing that is also a PHI ratio of the previous two.

So this is a MATH problem. Can it be shown that ONLY PHI provides this property? I would predict YES, although I haven't solved the equations myself.

One misleading thing when you look at the Hubbard material is there is this table that starts with 2.8Ghz and then shows various frequencies derived by dividing 2.8Ghz by 2^19, 2^18, 2^17, etc. I've puzzled over this and can't answer the question in my mind of WHY this is there.
I reasoned that 2.8Ghz would be the NMR of IRON subject to a certain magnetic field. I think it was about .8 Teslas if I remember this correctly.
But why? Why this value? It made no sense to me unless Hubbard was
designing for this value specifically for some reason.
The other misleading thing here is the power-of-two business.
If you start thinking power-of-two, you are thinking INSIDE the box in terms of traditional oscillation where a signal at one frequency will help the frequency that is power-of-two up or down from that frequency.
Is this table, therefore, a PSYOP to make you stay in the box and to think only power-of-two.

We probably don't want to be thinking power-of-two.
I think we DO need to be thinking power-of-PHI.

If anyone has a theory about ths 2.8Ghz table, I'de be happy to hear it. This has be another one of the mysteries yet unsolved.

--morpher44
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  #78  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:19 AM
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beat frequency calculator

Enter in any two frequencies that have a PHI ratio:

Beat Frequency Calculator - Make My Calculator

Observe that the resulting frequency is also a PHI ratio with the lower of the two frequencies you've entered.

--morpher44
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:37 AM
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The math solution -- easy...

Ok people. I've done the math and its quite easy.

Let us have 3 frequences:
f3 = the lowest frequency in the set
f2 = X * f3 (where X is a ratio not known to us yet)
f1 = X^2 * f3

We also want this formula to be true:

f3 = f1 - f2

i.e. that f3 is the beat frequency derived by beating f1 against f2.
Now with substitution, we have:

f3 = X^2 * f3 - X * f3

divide out f3 since it doesn't matter and rearrange the equation to be
in the quadratic equation form, and we have:

0 = X^2 - X - 1

Quadratic equation, if you remember, is
X = (-b +/- SQRT(b^2 - 4ac)) / 2a
We have
a=1
b=-1
c=-1
Solving for X, we get:
1.618 and -.618

QED: The only answer is PHI.
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  #80  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:50 AM
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Hubbard PHI video

I've created a video to try to explain my recent epiphany that Hubbard was probably intentionally trying to beat two PHI ratio frequencies against each other to create a 3rd lower frequency also a PHI ratio, and so on, and so on...

Hubbard Coil and PHI Ratio Frequencies - YouTube

-morpher44
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:15 AM
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www.interferencetheory.com

check this out:

Phi-heterodyning | Physics, Mathematics | INTERFERENCE
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:53 PM
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Morpher44 I think your on the right track bro
watching your work with interest, keep posting

When you add the iron to the system the magic will take place
But building air core is helping to understand
Thanks
dave
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  #83  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:03 AM
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IRON & other stuff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
Morpher44 I think your on the right track bro
watching your work with interest, keep posting

When you add the iron to the system the magic will take place
But building air core is helping to understand
Thanks
dave
Hi Dave,
My thoughts exactly. I was thinking of trying things with the air coils FIRST. The PHI relationship, I'm hoping, is what matters here, not the inductance. Magnetic fields in AIR are very FAST, short lived, however, and so it might be difficult to see with my lousy equipment. I have no spectrum analyzer -- shoe string budget.
I know many of you have really good equipment, so I'm hoping to encourage other experimenters with this.
It would be good if we can confirm the PHI ratio beat frequency theory.

Also, in studying one of the pictures from the time, Hubbard appears to be using an 8-cylinder auto distributor and gear box and variac and probably a motor to turn the distributor -- with D.C. motor meter frequency control. Interesting that later in his life he goes on to make a sparc-plug-with-radium pattent -- but never pattents this coil.
So, was he wiring each of the 8 spark plugs (or spark gaps) to each of the 8 outer coils to fire them in turn around a circle? Or was he just creating 8 sparks that were all WIRE-ORed to the same cable. There is a discussion on some other websites about how he didn't have that many wires coming out of his coil. I haven't seen a circuit diagram with the distributor mentioned .. so how he wired things up is a mystery.

I think IRON in the coil doesn't really make sense if using radio signals. You have to SATURATE the iron which will take a bit of current, and so certainly he supplied this device with power -- probably from a battery.
However, I found another story where he connected 4 120 foot wires arranged each going the different directions of the compass. At the center of these 4 wires he connected a glass bulb with mercury -- to create the CHOPPER - make break -- connection to the antenna. This is very radio-ish.
This then went down to his coil. There is some speculation that he had this sort of setup in the woods nearby the LAKE where he powered his boat.
This would be his power transmitter -- unknown to the PRESS -- with a tuned coil. The boat would have a TUNED receiver coil to power the boat.
This article I read gave the impression that this was someones THEORY of what he did -- and provided no evidence. All we have in terms of evidence are the newspaper articles from the time ... which would be good to dig up for a better accurate account.
Certainly there were several aspects of his demonstration that need further explanation.

The achievement, even if radium was inside the coil, is pretty darn amazing.
I think a tiny bit of radium might ionize the coil and make it work better, but I have a feeling there is more to it than just that.

The boat had a 35 horse-power motor ... 26KWatts from a little 14 inch length coil. Yikes!!!

Oh, btw, one way to derive the magic 2.8Ghz number, which is another mystery I would like solved is by adding the 3 diamters:
30 mm + 49 mm + 30 mm
This would represent the total diameter of the coil all taped together.
This wavelength, is approx 2.752Ghz ... round up to 2.8Ghz say.
So this is the size of the fastest possible standing wave across the structure.
The image says "natural magnetic resonance frequency"..
Google searches for "Radium and 2.8" is not easy. APPLE!!! Argh!!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
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It would be good if we can confirm the PHI ratio beat frequency theory.

Hi Morpher44,

i still have not found the correct sized former for my coils (PHI relation).

But i did a quick setup using a diode to mix 2 PHI (related) frequencies and looking at them with my FFT option (spectrum) of my scope, see diagramm below.

I used 2 Function Generators set at the same output level and at different frequencies (PHI related).
I used both sine waves as square waves.

Frequencies used are:
100Khz and 61.8Khz
100Khz and 161.8Khz
2Mhz and 3.236Mhz

The spectrum clearly showed the both main frequencies and the harmonics.
However, when at or around the PHI relation frequencies, no obvious change in harmonics and/or amplitude levels where noted.

Regards Itsu
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PHI1.jpg (52.7 KB, 17 views)
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:43 PM
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I wonder if a permanent magnet maintains this phi relationship as well.
It only makes sense that the frequency would change as the distance from the magnet increased or decreased.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:05 PM
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The Primer Fields Part 1 - YouTube
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:05 PM
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is it the magnetic field?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsu View Post
Hi Morpher44,

i still have not found the correct sized former for my coils (PHI relation).

But i did a quick setup using a diode to mix 2 PHI (related) frequencies and looking at them with my FFT option (spectrum) of my scope, see diagramm below.

I used 2 Function Generators set at the same output level and at different frequencies (PHI related).
I used both sine waves as square waves.

Frequencies used are:
100Khz and 61.8Khz
100Khz and 161.8Khz
2Mhz and 3.236Mhz

The spectrum clearly showed the both main frequencies and the harmonics.
However, when at or around the PHI relation frequencies, no obvious change in harmonics and/or amplitude levels where noted.

Regards Itsu
Itsu,
Thank you very much for doing this experiment.
I had been thinking about this possibility and I have one more "hopeful" idea.
Perhaps the magnetic fields are important here. My reasoning is as follows.
To "push/pull" extra energy in and out of your system, you need NMR effects. You can only get those NMR effects when the magnetic fields get strong enough. Hence, the PHI ratio frequencies expressed as vibrating magnetic fields might yield some sort of negative resistance and/or positive feedback.
Geometry of the fields create may matter as well. Certainly a vortex shape is ideal since particles will SPIN down into the vortex and be attracted to a smaller surface area. You can pick up radiant energy on a simple plate. The problem is ... you need a really really large plate since small plates don't expose enough surface area to get much. But with a magnetic field shaped just right, and I'm betting this conical PHI ratio shape is optimum, the particles can spiral down to a tinier surface area.
That is how I imagine it. It will take some inventive tinkering to prove such a thing.

It is interesting that Otis Car and Walter Russel seemed to want to do things with conical cones. Tesla as well, originally used conical air coils for his device.
The pyramids seem to be expressions in STONE of the inverse-square-law with a CIRCLE (the standing wave on an antenna), squared by the physical pyramid structure.

Yesterday in searching google some more for PHI ratio frequencies, I found some interesting UFO stuff -- such as rumors that UFO audio has been recorded and found to have many PHI ratio harmonics... And other websites where detailed technical information is given discussion PHI ratio harmonics. Harmonics are probably not the correct word -- since PHI is not an integer. Overtone isn't the correct word either. We need a new sort of word for this.

--morpher44
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:19 PM
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more thinking out loud...

Suppose Hubbard's original idea was to create a "pickup coil" for background radiation using this PHI ratio "trick".

You could build this thing and see certain results ... and then be encouraged to investigate various ways of optimizing the effects.

Certainly it would be concluded that if you had a better source of radiation, the coil would do better ... which could have pushed Hubbard toward the Radium approach.

It stands to reason, however, that as a "pickup coil", you could optimize it instead to do a better job picking up background radiation, if that were your goal. So in thinking about this, HOW would you get all the background radiation in the immediate area to AIM itself at your little coil?
Answer: A great big magnetic field shaped as a vortex...
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:36 PM
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morpher44 morpher44 is offline
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ionization...

So one way to create ionization in the immediate area is to have a radioactive material.

Another way, more human friendly, is to have an oscillating magnetic field. As these fields swish back and forth, they excite the ions floating around -- like rubbing a balloon, and CHARGE up the air. As you have these ionic charging going on, your ANTENNA, in the area, does better at receiving.
Ham radio operators know this. They will sometimes CHARGE up their antennas to BOOST gain.

Also, Tesla, while at Colorado Springs had great big JARs filled with salt water. He probably used this material for two purposes; (A) to create salt water capacitors and (B) to allow the salt water to evaporate in the Sun, and ionize the air around his antenna.

-morpher44
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:29 PM
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inverse square law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave45 View Post
I wonder if a permanent magnet maintains this phi relationship as well.
It only makes sense that the frequency would change as the distance from the magnet increased or decreased.
The magnet just sitting their has I suppose that Torus shaped field around it. As you navigate around the Torus, there are vortex shapes at the N or S pole. At those places, NMR occurs and stuff can SPIN toward the magnet... like a paper clip and its atoms.
Whether or not that magnetic field expresses itself PERFECTLY using the PHI ratios for the spiral, I suppose is subject to debate. Certainly we know the inverse-square-law which shows that there is a fall off with distance ... and one would be tempted to use some CONSTANT here. But the math is more likely NOT a constant, but a function, like this:

intensity ~ function(distance,any many other variables, including stuff in the way, etc.) * 1/(distance^2)

In other words, function(distance) needs to take into account the so called NEAR field and FAR field. When NEAR, your experiments work as if function is a constant. Near field stuff is WACKY... Far field is more predictable, except for WEATHER, things in the way, attenuation, etc.

I found this quote: "In this reactive region (NEAR FIELD), not only is an electromagnetic wave being radiated outward into far-space but there is a "reactive" component to the electromagnetic field, meaning that the nature of the field around the antenna is sensitive to, and reacts to, EM absorption in this region (this is not true for absorption far from the antenna, which has no effect on the transmitter or antenna near-field)."

A magnet, I suppose, is a sort of transmitter of fields around it.
A solenoid is more interesting in terms of making the fields OSCILLATE to create effects.
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