Hi Mark,

Between taking time off to share Father's Day with my daughters, and remedying a broken rear spring hanger on my truck, I've been a little side tracked. I am making some progress, though, and will try to post some more pictures later today. I have been making up different timing track configurations on Masonite arcs that I will be testing soon. I am setting up the arc tests to start at the repulsive margin, much the same as in video 19. The repulsive kick will start rotation, and no stator movement will be required until after the next approaching magnet group is drawn in by attraction. Once the second group is engaged, the test variations will come into play. First I will test to see if I can achieve a full inch of stator movement by the time I exit the second group. If that can't be done, I'll try lesser amounts of movement. Later I will try zero movement until the last magnet of the second group has passed the stator. I'd like to try several differing track layouts to establish what actually works best to provide the longest continual tracking. Once that is known, I'll complete the entire track and test it for rundown time after spinning it up to 100 rpm using an external motive source. I'll also test rundown with the tracking and stator mount carriage removed, for comparison. With those results in hand, I'll then add the wood flywheel and repeat the spin-up/rundown test with and without the tracking and stator mount carriage. These tests should reveal quite a bit of useful information, and will clearly demonstrate whether or not the timing track concept is worth pursuing further. I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to expect that this first series of efforts will yield a self-runner, but I am hopeful that the results will at least be somewhat on the positive side and encouraging.

Thanks for your patience and continued interest,

Rick

Hi folks,

I'm currently preparing a post showing some more photos of the current construction phase, and will have those details up in another hour or so. More will follow in another day or two.

Thanks for your patience,

Rick

Keep in mind that these steps are not necessarily a build modification that everyone should implement at this time. I am simply showing how I did this so that everyone will know the full particulars of my build.

The first photo shows the underside of one of the arc segments after being cut out.



The three scribed lines in the photo above are made using the same arc scribing tool that was used in making the wood flywheel, although one additional hole must be drilled in the tool. The lines are set at 10+9/16", 11+5/16", and 14+5/16" respectively from the scribe tool pivot point.

The photo below shows the polycarbonate timing track base being mounted to the new bike wheel rim. I should mention that it is very difficult to attempt this unless the polyethylene magnet spacers have been glued to the rim to hold them in place during the drilling. For this I used a clear all-purpose contact adhesive/sealant named "Quick Hold Craft." Once the four magnet groups are laid out in proper orientation, equally spaced from one another, and the magnet spacers applied as shown in previous photos, remove one spacer at a time and apply a thin coating of the contact adhesive to one side of the spacer, and to its rim location. You can prepare one full group of spacers at a time this way. Wait about 8 to 10 minutes for the adhesive to set, then press each spacer firmly into correct position.



If the spacers have been cut and installed properly, they will overhang the rim at the outer perimeter by about 0.100 inch. The adhesive bonds fairly well on contact, as you press the spacers against the rim, so try to align them well before applying pressure. After all the 11 spacers of the group (end spacers included) are pressed into place, go onto the other magnet groups and repeat this procedure. You will also need to cut and cement in some spacers for each of the arc segment ends, as well as 2 or 3 additional interim spacers to support the polycarbonate over the wide gaps between the magnet groups. The interim spacers should be no more than 2 inches apart. Each arc segment end should have its own spacer, and not share a spacer with the adjacent arc end. After all spacers are cemented in place, wait at least 4 hours before attempting to attach the polycarbonate ring arcs. The ring arcs are first laid out in a circle on the rim, as was shown earlier, using magnets on top to hold them in place while finding the best positioning. If the arcs were cut out nicely, the inner edge will be about even with the inner edge of the magnet spacers. If the inner edge of the magnet spacers is not covered by the ring, that means you will need to remove a certain amount of material from one or more of the adjacent arc ends (the arc mating edges) so that the ring will move further inwards and fully cover the spacers. When all is adjusted correctly, remove the magnets above one of the arc segments, remove the arc from the rim, and remove the paper backing from both sides of the polycarbonate material. Replace the arc segment on the rim, and clamp in place as shown in the above photo. The blue clamps are IRWIN quick-grip clamps with swiveling plastic jaws, and are ideal for this purpose. As can be seen, I also used spring clamps placed under the polycarbonate ring to fortify the outside spacers of the group while drilling. If this is not done, these spacers can break loose from the rim and swivel while you are drilling. You will also notice that a C-clamp is used, with a piece of wood, to clamp the polycarbonate ring down tightly against whatever spacer is currently being drilled. You want to clamp as close to each spacer as possible without the clamp interfering with the drilling. This method of clamping is very important, and if not done the spacers will definitely pull away from the rim and distort the magnet array while you are drilling. It is best to carefully measure each drilling location so that it is centered fairly well on the width of the spacer, and located about 0.400 inch inward from the outer edge of each spacer. If the spacer overhangs are correct, that places the center of the drilled holes 0.300 inch inward from the rim perimeter. The drill locations are best marked by placing a sharp pointed awl at the correct location on the polycarbonate ring and then tapping it with a hammer to make an indentation that the drill can follow. It is best to start with a fairly small drill that will start well in the indentation, and to drill through the polycarbonate, the spacer, and the rim with this drill first. I would suggest using a 3/32 inch drill bit for these pilot holes. At first you just want to drill both the end spacers so that you can put screws down through to hold the ring stable before drilling the remaining spacers. So use the pilot drill at one end, remove the pilot bit, and follow with a 3/16 inch drill bit. Drill slowly with each of the bits so that they don't grab and seize up while going through the rim. Insert a #10-32 nylon screw and tighten it against a hex nut placed from underneath. Take note of how well placed your first screw is. If the hole was drilled in the correct location of the rim, the hex nut will fit in nicely. If too far inward, the hex nut can't be started onto the screw. If too far outward, the hex nut will come up against the rim lip, and will distort the scew as it is tightened. Be careful to check this first hole carefully, so that you can make a suitable adjustment for the remaining holes if necessary. Not even thinking about the possibility of the rim lip interfering, I drilled all of the spacers in my first group precisely at the mid point of the rim, before realizing that was a mistake. Since all of the nuts fastening those screws came up against the rim lip, they would not lay flat against the rim. To solve that problem, I cut some #8 finishing washers as shown below, with a pair of nippers.



The idea was to cut the washer off so as to leave the hole mostly intact, but opened to the outside. The flat cut is then placed against the rim lip, and the nut tightened against the lip and the washer as shown below.



Hopefully you can avoid having to do this, although it worked out okay. So once you have drilled and checked the first hole, move your C-clamp to the opposite end of the group and repeat. After both ends are screwed down firmly, reposition the C-clamp so that you can drill the next adjacent spacer, and then the following ones. If you have two electric drills, this will be made much easier because you won't have to keep changing drill bits. When all the group spacers have been drilled, you next need to drill the arc end spacers and interim spacers. The arc end spacers are drilled using the clamping method shown in the photo below.



The interim spacers are drilled by placing the spring clamp at one side, and then placing an additional spacer next to the interim spacer and using the C-clamp to tighten down the polycarbonate ring. When all the drill holes have been made to the 3/16" size, remove the clamps and the two screws from the arc segment. Set the polycarbonate arc segment aside for cleaning, and then start lifting off each of the spacers, one at a time, and arranging them top side up on a table or other work surface. Keep them lined up in the exact order they were removed, left to right, and top side up, starting with the left arc end spacer. The spacers will lift up fairly easily, and will pull away without any adhesive remaining attached to them. Now remove each of the magnets of the group, and individually clean each one. The magnets may have a little adhesive stuck to them which can be scraped off using a plastic knife or popsicle stick. They will also have metal bits from the drillings attached. These metal bits can be "pinched off" between your finger tips until the magnet is clean. Set each clean magnet aside where it can not pick up other particles. The adhesive remaining on the rim can be peeled away for the most part, and any remaining residue can be scraped off. When all the components are cleaned, place all of that group's magnets back on the rim and begin inserting the group spacers. Drop a #10-32 nylon screw down through each spcer, and through the rim, just to keep the magnet array and spacers properly aligned. No need to install nuts - just use the screws as positioners. When all the group magnets are arranged properly with their spacers in between and at the ends, remove the screws. Set the polycarbonate arc on top of the group and reinsert all the screws. Then semi-tighten the two end screws of the group with hex nuts. Place the arc end spacers in position between the rim and the polycarbonate arc, and insert screws down through them. Do the same with the interim spacers. Align the mating edges of the arc with the mating edges of its two adjacent arc ends, and clamp those mating edges together as you tighten all the screws against hex nuts applied from below. Be careful not to overtighten, as the nylon screws can strip easily. I used nylock hex nuts for my installation, but regular hex nuts can be used instead if a little dab of Loctite is applied to keep the nuts from loosening. When the first arc segment is well attached, move to one of the adjacent arc segments and repeat the above procedure. You may find it necessary to realign the remaining arc segments each time you work a section, and the last segment may need material removed from one or both ends in order to fit well with the other attached segments before it is drilled. This completes the attachment of the polycarbonate timing track base. The next step will show how I cut and prepared the Masonite strips for the timing track tests.

Best to all,

Rick

As I said earlier, the purpose of using temporary Masonite track configuration arcs is to avoid, as much as possible, drilling of the polycarbonate track base. Any number of Masonite test arcs can be made up, and attached to the polycarbonate base with just 3 screws. Only one 90 degree section of the rotor needs to be covered this way. The idea, of course, is that if rotation is started at the critical repulsion point at the tail end of a North magnet group, the stator is already positioned for attraction at the leading end of the South magnet group which follows. No stator movement is required up to that point. My hope is to be able to slowly move the stator during progression of the South magnet group, so that it has moved 1" by the time the critical repulsion point at the tail end of that group is reached. Since there are 10 magnets in each group, that means the radial movement of the stator must progress 1/10" for every inch of rotor progression at the bike wheel's outer perimeter. That doesn't seem like it would be too much to hope for, and if it can be done then it will offer maximum attraction and repulsion forces, since the maximum pole strengths of the stator magnet are spaced 1" apart. If rotation continues through to the end of the South group, then this will prove that continuous rotation can be achieved, since the next 90 degrees of rotation would simply be a repetition of the performance seen during the first 90 degrees. If the rotor is still moving, rather than coming to a near stop at the 2nd critical repulsion point, then rotation will not only continue, but will also begin to pick up speed. So, getting the best possible performance from the track may require many tests using various track layouts. Once the best layout is found, the Masonite can then be used as a drilling template for drilling the polycarbonate base. The photo below shows how I laid out 4 Masonite arcs on a sheet of 3/16" thick Masonite. I started by laying out 4 arcs, but there is probably room for 10 to 12 more, since this is a 2ft x 4ft sheet.



As with other cutouts, the objective is to leave the outer lines of the arcs intact, or at least partially showing, on each piece cut out. These arcs are fairly long, and actually cover an area of the rotor which is more than the 90 degrees needed. In utilizing my first arc, I drilled a hole on the centerline 1/4" in from the arc end to use as a pivot point. If the rotation does not continue to the end of the South magnet group, I will pivot the Masonite inwards at the South magnet group to reduce the stator travel from 1" to 3/4", and then possibly to 1/2" if needed.

The heavy lines that appear at the arc midpoint, and at the far end, are actually arcs drawn in relation the the arc pivot point hole. I thought about cutting a channel groove at both of those lines so that the second and third mounting screws could be loosened and retightened after pivoting the arc for an adjustment.

My next post will show how the polyethylene track is prepared for mounting, and will also show the actual layout and mounting method of the track to the first test arc.

Best to all, Rick

Note: Once again, I do not suggest that anyone construct a similar track system until I can test and prove its merit. I only show this so that others will know exactly how this was done in my build. I used 3/8" x 3/4" polyethylene bar stock in this example, but I find that it is much less flexible than the 1/4" x 3/4" stock that I used in making the magnet spacers. I would actually prefer making the track from the 1/4" x 3/4" stock, and using #6-32 x 1" flathead machine screws for attachment rather than using the 3/8" stock with #8-32 screws as shown in the following photos. The first step is to prepare a jig to be used in drilling mounting holes through the polycarbonate stock.



Note: If you don't have a drill press, or a friend or relative who has one, I suggest renting one for a couple of hours so that you can drill the holes accurately. Many hardware stores, home building supply stores, and equipment rental stores have a drill press that they will rent to you at a reasonable rate. In the photos below, I am using a RYOBI 10" benchtop drill press with a laser guide that makes alignment of the drilling locations very accurate and easy. The drilling jig must be clamped tightly to the drill press table. A pair of small C-clamps is fine for this purpose, but I couldn't locate my second C-clamp so opted to use a strong spring clamp at the left side, as shown below.



The jig is positioned so that the drill bit, when lowered, comes down in the center of the jig channel. The drilling depth is adjusted so that the drill bit will penetrate the surface of the small wood block about 1/8". If fastening the track to the Masonite with #8 machine screws, a 5/32" drill bit should be used, and I would suggest drilling pilot holes with a 3/32" bit first. If using #6-32 machine screws for the track mounting, a 1/8" drill bit can be used without drilling a pilot hole. The top of the polyethylene stock should be marked off at 1" intervals, starting 1/4" in from one end, to show where you want to drill. You probably won't use all of the mounting holes, but it is good to have them available. The next photo shows the inch markings made on the polyethylene material with a marker pen, and shows the first drill site being lined up using the laser guide, which gives an "X" to mark the spot. The polyethylene is slid into position so that the laser X is directly over each mark before drilling. While the laser X appears as a thick cross in the photo, it actually looks much finer and sharper when using the drill press. The camera appears to have focused on the beam rather than on the jig.



The next photo shows the stock being drilled.



After all the holes are drilled, use an exacto knife, or other sharp pointed razor knife to deburr the holes. Use due caution when handling the knife. Next, it is time to mount the track, or more precisely a section of it, on one of the Masonite arcs. The photo below shows how I laid out my first test track.



I started by aligning the track so it begins about 3/8" from the right end of the Masonite arc, with the bottom edge aligned against the centerline of the arc. A hole is then drilled down through the first polyethylene hole and through the Masonite. The Masonite is then flipped over and a countersink bit is used to provide a recess for the screw head. The screw is then inserted through the Masonite and tightend into the polyethylene. The polyethylene will bind the screw nicely, and no nut should be required. Continue aligning, drilling, and fastening each hole one at a time until the test track is completed. The underside will appear as in the next photo. Notice the swivel mount hole at the left end of the arc (which is actually the right end), which will be used to fasten the right end of the arc to the polycarbonate base.



With this completed, the test track can then be mounted to the polycarbonate base as shown in the last photo.



Looking pretty good here, and all that is needed now is the timing track/stator mount carriage, and the supporting elements. With these installed, serious testing can then begin.

The left end, and center section of the Masonite arc, can now also be drilled and attached to the polycarbonate with #6 or #8 round head machine screws, flat washers, and nuts. A series of holes can be drilled through the Masonite, along the heavy scribed lines, which will align with a single hole drilled through the polycarbonate when the Masonite arc is swiveled, or a 1/2" to 3/4" long slot can be cut on the heavy lines by first drilling and then inserting the saber saw scroll cut blade. A slot will allow infinite adjustment of the Masonite arc. Again, whatever method is used, only a small hole of the fastening screw size is needed through the polycarbonate base.

I hope you have found this construction phase interesting and informative.

Best regards to all,

Rick

Hi folks,

Here are some photos of the stator tracking carriage assembly. The parts used in making this are all labeled in the first photo. The polycarbonate carriage is 3" wide and 8" long. The width of the carriage could be further scaled down to 1.5" to reduce material weight. I started with a larger piece than I actually needed when laying it all out.



This next picture shows the inverted assembly with the PTFE sliders mounted in the slider block. The unit slides very easily, requiring only a 1 ounce force.



In the next photo, I show the stator tracking carriage suspended from the slider bar in its correct orientation above the rotor and test track. The bar is not actually mounted to anything in this photo - I just wanted to show you how it will be set up.



The last photo shows the same view but zoomed in a ways to make the detail clearer. The North pole of the hard drive magnet is positioned 1.5" above the rotor magnets as shown here. I will probably try several different heights when testing the track layouts. A closer gap produces stronger attractions and repulsions, of course, but there will definitely be an optimal gap that works best. The test track that is shown here is the same piece shown in the previous section depicting the test track construction methods. This particular test track layout is probably the least likely to work out, since it requires moving the stator carriage all the way through the South magnet group, and that does require the greatest amount of force when compared to other layouts.



It would be nice if this track layout did work, since it would then position the stator magnet for full repulsive force at the tail end of the South group, but I really think that will be asking too much. That's because any movement of the stator, while a rotor magnet group is engaged, will result in considerable drag between the track and rollers, and this test track is set up for a full 1" of progressive stator travel which starts at the lead end of the South group. Lowering the stator to rotor gap would offer stronger rotational force, but would also result in greater drag between the track and rollers. The least resistive force is encountered if the stator is only moved as the last rotor magnet of a rotor group passes by. At that point, stator movement is very easy, but would also have to be achieved very quickly in order to take some advantage of the repulsive force. Maximum repulsion would require an almost instantaneous 1" movement, which really would not be possible with the track system, but certainly some amount of repulsion could be had. If I do need to achieve all the movement at the tail end of the rotor groups then I will definitely switch to the narrower 1/4" track material, which is much more flexible than the 3/8" thick polyethylene track material shown here and will allow for a sharper curve. It may take quite a bit of testing to determine what is going to work out best. I may even try a segmented track, as one of our participants suggested earlier. This would require a break in the track at the point of movement, and a rapid movement would have to be accomplished by other means, such as a repulsive magnet kick. If magnets are used in this manner, they must be located far enough from the stator and rotor magnets so as not to interfere with them, and the repulsive actions would simply be focused at the ends of the carriage assembly. In fact, if the tracking system does not work out well enough then moving the stator solely by magnetic forces would be my second choice in the list of possible movement options.

The only remaining construction step for the tracking system is the mounting of the slider bar to the PVC framework. I'll probably go for whatever appears to be the easiest solution at this time. As long as the bar is mounted in a stable manner, and at the proper angle, it should perform well enough. If the track concept turns out to have merit then I will come up with a better solution for the slider bar mounting later, but I figure it is usually best to keep it simple when experimenting.

Best regards to all,

Rick

Hello Rick

Everything is looking GOOD! From the picture it looks as if your track rollers are touching the track at all times. You might consider widening the gap on the rollers so that only 1 roller is touching the track at a time, this would reduce the friction.

A solenoid operated stator would be very advantageous if the power to run it could be generated off the wheel. I'm going to let that idea stue in my brain for awhile.

Looking forward to your next progress report Rick.

Looks great so far good luck,
Mark

Wow that carriage is a thing of beauty! Also your photography is top notch!
Good luck on the build.

Justalabrat

Hi Mark, and thanks for the note and kind words. Actually there is a space of about 1/16" between the outside roller and the track, but it just doesn't show in the photo because of the angle. It also can't be seen (because of the fender washers) that I cut a short slot in the polycarbonate for one of the the roller axle screws so that I could have an adjustable gap between the rollers, and this also allows me to change over to the 1/4" polyethylene track material. Today I am working on the slider bar mount, and keeping it very simple. I'm trying to keep everything maximally adjustable. You can see that the roller axles can be raised easily to allow the stator magnet to be dropped down lower,and that the the polycarbonate stator carriage can also be raised up closer to the slider bar to widen the stator/rotor gap. In the photo, the carriage is already lowered to its maximum level from the slider bar, so I need to raise the carriage up about an inch before attaching the slider bar so that I will have an adequate amount of adjustment to play with. I also plan to make the slider bar level adjustable.

Regarding your solenoid idea, of course that would certainly work. There are 2 reasons why I won't try something like that, though:
1. First of all, I'm hoping to be able to achieve the desired rotation only by mechanical and magnetic means.
2. Using any portion of the potential electrical generation that the unit can produce, for the sake of attaining stator movement, will of course substantially decrease the remaining electric power that would be available for other uses. In the end, if nothing else quite does the job then we may have to resort to this, of course. For example, if a segmented track is used then the stator could be shifted at the precise moment needed by using a very short repulsive burst from an electromagnet correctly positioned for this purpose, and that's probably close to what you are thinking about.

You could certainly try experimenting with this idea to see what your power requirements will need to be. The more people we can get involved with experimenting on different aspects, the faster we will achieve success.

Best wishes to you,

Rick

Hi lab rat,

Thanks for the comments. The carriage is actually very simple to make up, and perhaps that's the beauty of it. As I stated earlier on, I wanted to use the clear polycarbonate for this so that photos and video would give us a clear view of what is happening, and of course that wasn't possible with the previously used PVC stator arm. That arm certainly did serve a very useful purpose for testing stator magnet orientations and methods of stator movement, but it could not have worked with the tracking system. I will probably narrow the carriage width further to reduce weight as much as possible, but even now it is of relatively low weight and only requires a 1 ounce force to move it since the slider mechanism is so slick. No lubricant is required for the sliders, and suspending the sliders facing down keeps dust from building up in the bar. I'm quite happy with this carriage and slider setup, and will retain it even if I eventually decide to eliminate the track, since this would also be essential for use with the optional method of moving the stator using repulsive magnet power.

Are you thinking about replicating the Pipe Dream apparatus? I hope so. The more people we can get involved in this project, the faster and farther we can take it.

Best regards,

Rick

Hi folks,

I have completed the attachment of the stator carriage slider rail to the PVC framework, and will be providing the final construction details of this phase later today. I have also completed and uploaded video #21 of the Pipe Dream series, which shows the various tracking system components mounted and ready for testing. Enjoy!

Best regards to all,

Rick

The following photos show the construction procedures that I used in making up the stator carriage slider rail system, and shows how the components fit and work together.

The first step in this final construction phase of the stator tracking mechanism is to make up a slider rail pivot bracket, as seen in the photo below.



Next, the slider rail mounting board is prepared. This board will be attached directly to the PVC framework of the Pipe Dream apparatus.
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Although not shown in the above photo, there are also 3 additional holes that need to be drilled in the 1" square aluminum bar. A 5/32" hole is bored through the side of the bar and located 18+3/16" from the back end of the bar. This hole is for attachment of the slider rail pivot bracket, using a #8-32 x 1+1/2" stainless steel pan head machine screw, flat washer, and nylock nut. The other two holes, not shown above, are for attachment of a brass sliding lid prop at the rear of the rail. In the next photo you will see how the lid prop and pivot bracket are attached. The actual placement and drilling for these depend upon the actual hardware used for this purpose, and so I will leave those specifications up to each builder. What you decide to use may be entirely different than what I am showing, and that is fine. I used a scrap piece of wood for the mounting board, and pieces of aluminum that I salvaged at the local recycling center for making up the sandwich plates and the pivot bracket. What you find to be handy and available may be quite different. I am only showing how I did this for the prototype in what I considered was the simplest workable solution that would offer ease of construction, good stability and adjustability, and low friction stator movement.



The last photo for this construction phase shows the unit mounted on the PVC framework. This view also shows the stator carriage positioned at the repulsive starting point of the test track. You can see that there is a #8 -32 x 3/4" screw at both ends of the Masonite arc. The right end of the arc acts as a pivot point, and the left end can be swiveled inwards and fastened at any one of 6 holes bored 1/4" apart in the Masonite.



I do feel satisfied that the completed assembly meets the goals that I established for it, and look forward to the track testing phase. The linear movement of the stator carriage will allow me to measure the force required to move it at different locations within a magnet group, and this information will be very helpful in determining the best possible track layout. I will probably attach a ruler to the side of the aluminum bar so that I can accurately gauge how much the carriage moves, or needs to move for desired results.

I've been working so steadily on this that I have decided it is time to take a short breather before I begin testing. Lezel and I will be heading up to the cottage later this morning for a couple of days. The weather has finally turned nice after nearly a solid month of rain. I'll be back home Wednesday evening, and will try to stay in touch from the cottage.

Best regards to all,

Rick

Hello Rickoff

Any updates you'd like to share today?

Hi Mark,

Yes, I do have some updated information to share today. I made an alteration to the stator carriage rail, and tried a few preliminary tests. I felt that the alteration was necessary because the aluminum bar stock was too long, and it tipped down too close to the rotor at the back end. So, I removed 6.5 inches from the back end of the bar, which now leaves the bar at 22.25 inches, and the overall length of the bar + slider rail is 23.25 inches. Here's a photo of the modified unit:




I'll post this now, and will talk about the test results later tonight.

Best regards,

Rick

Hi folks,

I have done some preliminary testing using the first test track layout (see 5th photo in post #245), and the results were interesting. The idea of the first track layout was to see if it was possible to move the stator carriage one full inch outwards on the slider rail during the progression of a ten magnet rotor group. As I stated earlier, I felt that this would probably be the least likely track layout to work properly because of the resistive forces of the carriage wheels against the track. This assumption proved correct, but I am glad that I tested this particular track layout because it clearly demonstrated everything I should avoid in planning my next track layout. I was also able to take some force measurements showing the actual force applied against the track by the carriage's roller wheels. At the starting repulsive point, shown in the last photo of post #252, there is a 3 ounce force pushing outwards against the track. This is enough drag to cause a slow start. I did find, however, that if the carriage is positioned 3/16" further inwards on the slider rail for start-up, there is zero inward or outward force and the carriage will remain stationary. Therefore, my next test track will start at that position, and should provide a better kick at start-up. While the 3/16" difference reduces the resistive force to zero, the repulsive acceleration produced is nearly the same, so it doesn't mean giving up one thing to gain another.

As can be seen in the last photo of post #252, I drilled a series of 6 holes through the Masonite arc's left end so that I could effectively lessen the carriage travel amount by swiveling the left end inwards in small increments. I tested for each of those positions, and recorded the results as a percentage of travel through the South rotor group. Since there are 10 magnets in a rotor group, each magnet that passes under the stator represents a 10% travel amount through the rotor group. I started at position #1, with the test track set for a full inch of travel. Here are the results. Note that the "Inches of track change" heading refers to the full amount of linear stator carriage movement that would be achieved if the carriage were to follow the entire 90 degree section of track from repel point 1 to repel point 2.

Position # / Travel % / Inches of track change

1 / 35% / 1.000"
2 / 45% / 0.700"
3 / 55% / 0.570"
4 / 60% / 0.420"
5 / 70% / 0.200"
6 / 80% / 0.050"

These tests clearly showed that any amount of stator carriage movement during the span of a rotor magnet group creates an undesirable antirotational resistive effect. It only seems logical to conclude that the track, in addition to being moved 3/16" inwards at the starting point, must not impart any movement on the stator carriage until the final magnet of a rotor group has passed below the stator magnet. Once that point (repel point 2) has passed, movement of the stator carriage requires only 1 ounce or less of force. In making up the second test track, I will switch from the 3/8" track to the narrower 1/4" material. Flexibility of the track material will be an important factor in gaining as much repulsive acceleration as is possible through rapid stator carriage movement at the tail end of the rotor magnet group.

I plan to make a video demonstrating the above test results, and comparing those with the results achieved using the second test track. Should have that ready in another day or two.

Best to all,

Rick

Good luck and keep the results coming.

oldHermit

Hi folks,

Video #22 is currently uploading to YouTube. This one explains how the various components of the tracking system work together to produce stator movement, and explains the methods used for the initial track tests. I have also videotaped enough footage for 3 additional videos that will follow, and which will show the testing of two different track layouts.

These videos are quite slow to upload to YouTube. It takes about one hour and 20 minutes to upload a ten minute video even though I have a relatively fast Internet connection, and once the file is uploaded it takes YouTube another half hour to process it before it can be viewed. I'll have to hit the sack pretty soon, but will try to have the remaining videos posted tomorrow (I guess that's later today, actually, as it is now 2:45AM here).

Best to all,

Rick

Rick, some people are just too damn lazy!
Only joking, enjoy your well earned rest.

Regards, Bren.

It happened that my computer performed an automatic Windows update last night, and restarted the computer afterwards. This occurred while Video #22 was still uploading to YouTube, so of course the upload failed. I am currently uploading the video again, and it should be ready to view in about one hour. Sorry for the delay.

Rick

I was wondering why It wasn't up for viewing yet. Rick it would be helpful if you could put a link to each new video into your posts as you load them. I hope to be viewing a self runner soon! Keep up the great work and thanks.

Hi folks,

The link for video #22 is YouTube - Video #22, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor - Generator Project Sorry I couldn't post that link before, as I have no idea what the URL will be until after the file has uploaded successfully and is available for viewing.

Video #23 is now also up at the following link: YouTube - Video #23, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor - Generator Project

This video shows the actual tests of the first timing track layout. Video #24 will be up tomorrow, and will show pull force tests and testing of track layout #2.

The new setup has really made it easy to obtain useful test results, so I'm quite happy with it. I have already learned quite a bit just from these preliminary tests.

Time to hit the sack now before the sun rises, so I'll say goodnight.

Best to all,

Rick

Hi folks,

I was able to post video #24 today, and it is ready for viewing at the following link: YouTube - Video #24, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor - Generator Project

This video is a continuation of videos #22 and 23, and shows the configuration and testing of the second test track layout. A pull test is also shown, which demonstrates the resistive pressure encountered between the track and stator carriage wheels during the previous tests. The pull test shows that the resistive drag force encountered ranged from 3 to 6 ounces. To avoid this drag, the second track is configured so that there is minimal resistance throughout the progressing rotor magnet group, with stator movement only at the tail end of the group. This allows full rotational movement through the group, but leaves the North pole of the stator positioned above the tail end of the rotor group, and this of course is undesirable since it will cause a strong attraction that will slow down the rotor, stop rotation, and even cause it to reverse direction once the last magnet of the South rotor group has passed beyond the stator's North pole. To avoid this, there must be rapid movement of the stator carriage, at the tail end of the rotor magnet group, so that the South pole of the stator is brought into repulsion with the last rotor magnet. It appears that such rapid movement may be impossible to achieve with the track system, and that other means will need to be employed for this purpose. I will be exploring such methods in the coming days, and these will include mechanical and magnetic means. In order to achieve continuous rotation, both the attraction and repulsion forces must be utilized. There will be one more video showing additional test results obtained during this initial testing phase of the track layouts, and then future videos will explore the modifications that would appear to be necessary or beneficial.

While the track test results so far have been less than what I hoped for, they were not entirely unexpected. I certainly don't chalk this phase up to being a failure, because I learned a lot from this that now points the way towards successful modifications. As far as the monorail track goes, I really have two choices:
1. I can retain the track for use only between magnet groups, where the stator needs guidance. Such sections would have to be kept relatively short, however, since they would only be used to maintain the stator position after it has been moved by other means.
2. I can do away entirely with the track. It is not needed while the stator is in attraction and engaged with a magnet group, as it seeks its best attraction point automatically. As the last magnet of a group is passing the stator, a rapid pole-shifting movement of the stator is desired, and this cannot be accomplished with track. The sharp bend required to do this would be like a brick wall to the carriage rollers, immediately halting rotation.

I am going to explore magnetic means of rapidly moving the stator at the tail end of each magnet group so that the desired repulsion effect can be utilized. To do this, I will most likely shorten the outward end of the stator carriage, removing the rollers. I will affix a neodymium magnet to each end of the carriage. Movement of the carriage can then be caused by attraction or repulsion force at either end, or by a combination of the two. To make this work, I will first need to position stops to limit carriage movement inward and outward on the slider rail so that the stator will be in its optimal performance position after each move. The magnets mounted at the ends of the stator carriage will be stationary, of course, and they will need to interact with 4 repelling magnets attached to arms connected to the rotor. The two inboard, and two outboard arms, would be fixed at each of the desired repel points , at the tail end of each magnet group. As the arms rotate, the repelling force of each arm magnet, as it approaches a stator carriage end, will cause the carriage to move rapidly in the desired direction until it reaches the slider stop. The only trick will be to maintain that position until the next approaching rotor magnet group is engaged. This could be done with a short track segment, of course, but I am thinking that magnetic means may offer better results. A section of vertical steel wall can be attached to the polycarbonate ring between the S to N progressions of the rotor groups, but only near enough to the carriage's stop position to provide adequate attraction to prevent the carriage from bouncing off the stop and moving back in the opposite direction. Since the slider rail slopes downwards at the inner end, a very light spring tension may be adequate to maintain the carriage position when at the inward stop. The attachment of the rotating repulsion magnet near the inner end of the carriage will be a little tricky, but could be done by rigging an attachment to a pair of spokes. As they say, "where there's a will there's a way." Now there is one problem encountered when moving the stator carriage by magnetic repulsion, and that is the fact that as a rotating arm magnet approaches the carriage end magnet in repulsion there is an undesired antirotational force until the two magnets are aligned well enough to cause the stator carriage movement. I believe this can be overcome, though, by using a steel wall with a "window" hole at the correct alignment location.

Another possibility to explore is to use all North up groups, and a stator orientation as shown in video #12. YouTube - TheRickoff's Channel
In that video, I described the possibility of briefly moving the stator upwards at the lead end of each magnet group to avoid the "brick wall" repulsion effect. Instead of moving the stator upwards, though, it could simply move inward or outward on the slider rail just enough to avoid the unwanted momentary repulsion effect, and then be snapped back into alignment with the rotor group. This would be similar to the action shown near the end of video #3. YouTube - TheRickoff's Channel

So many possibilities, and so little time. I'll keep doing what I can with whatever time I can steal, but I am hoping that others are also working on solving the problems of these methods, and exploring other methods as well. I'd appreciate hearing reports from all participating experimenters.

Thanks for your continued interest and support,

Rick

Rick, what if you added some weight to your wheel, say 5 pounds or so, would that give it enough inertia to over come moving the carriage at the end?

Hi folks,

Yes, I could add back the birch flywheel ring for weight, as labrat suggested, and I'm sure that would help out with inertia. I can also lower the slider bar to narrow the gap beween the stator and rotor magnets, and gain torque and speed. In fact, I have lowered the gap to 1 inch from the previous 1.5 inch gap used in the earlier tests, and have also decreased the amount of track deflection at the end of the track to reduce resistance. I made a new video showing this modification, which can be seen here: YouTube - Video #25, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor-Generator Project

The bottom line is that I was able to go 180 degrees, beginning at repel point #1 as in the previous tests, and of course that is much better than what was possible before. So it looks like the track system isn't quite dead in the water just yet. I'll do some more tweaks and see if I can improve it any more. By adding short track segments to the areas between magnet groups, so as to steer the carriage on course for approaching groups, I am sure that the rotor could make it all the way around given just a little more assistance. That might be had simply by lowering the stator another 1/8 to 1/4 inch to produce more speed and torque. I feel certain that would at least get us through a third magnet group. And with the flywheel added, it may be possible to do 360 degrees. I think the rotation would grind to a halt soon after, though, unless the rotor is given a hand spin to start. If spun up to 100 rpm, I would guess that the rundown time to zero rpm would be extended out fairly well. Doing the rundown test will yield some useful information, and I would do that in three tests:
1. First, without the stator carriage mounted.
2. Next, with the stator carriage mounted and operational.
3. And finally, with the flywheel ring added.

For each test, I will spin the rotor up to precisely 100 rpm usng an external means. The rundown times will tell us a lot.

I may also repeat those tests wth the rotor groups all configured North facing up, and with the stator magnet rotated 90 degrees. It may be possible to move the stator just enough to overcome the brick wall repulsion effect at the lead end of each magnet group. Might as well explore the possibilities before digging into additional or alternative methods. I'll keep plugging away at this. We may be some distance away from a successful self runner, but a long long ways from failure.

Best regards to all,

Rick

Hi Mark,

Sorry that the links aren't available in some of my posts, and that is because I usually post information about a pending upload before it is completed, and therefore do not know the link address yet. I'll try to include links whenever possible. You can also go to my Channel on YouTube YouTube - TheRickoff's Channel, and you will find the latest video listed first there. I suggest keeping a Favorites link to that on your computer. You can also go to the Videos page at the Pipe Dream website Videos where you will not only find the YouTube link shown above, but also individual links to all my videos, plus a brief description of the contents for each one.

Hope that helps. Best 2 U,

Rick

Just checkin' to see if you're ok, as you haven't posted lately, and making sure you weren't getting 'convinced of the profitability of silence' by anyone. LOL. No, but seriously, was wondering on your progress and had a thought for your consideration.

If you were to imagine a camera mounted in the position of the stator and it took a snapshot of the best position of each of the rotor magnets below as they passed by relative to the stator when you moved the stator by hand. Then, instead of moving the stator you kept it stationary and oriented the rotor magnets below in the position as it appeared in each 'snapshot', wouldn't that accomplish the same thing without having the frictional drag of moving the stator? I hope I've communicated this visualization well enough to explain my thinking...

I do realize that you might have to mount a wider piece of sheet metal to the poly-carbonate ring to accommodate the wider magnet arrangement, but just a thought. In my mind I see the rows of magnets on the rotor in a succession of sort of semi-spiral or an elongated S patterns... maybe even just diagonal lines relative to the stator to accomplish this method. You could then sort of overlap the rows (start a new row before the end of the last one has passed by the stator) if needed to help with any sticky spots and have them all North or all South facing. Well, I'm attaching a rough drawing of this so you can see what I'm trying to say...

What do you think of this idea? Would it be possible or am I barking up the same futile tree as others have in the past? I am in process of acquiring materials for my build and was thinking that I might try that method to see how it responds.

Many thanks and I hope all is going well on your testing. I look forward to your next round of vid's. Keep up the excellent work!!

Attached Images

Stationary Stator Idea24.jpg (21.3 KB, 34 views)

Hi Groundhog,

Yes, all is fine. I took some time off to get together with family at my cottage, but am back home now. The project continues, and I will be explaining the changes that I will be implementing.

Regarding your idea, yes it certainly is possible to arrange the rotor magnets to move their relationship to the stator, rather than physically moving the stator. You will find, though, that it is much trickier do do this than it would appear. Still, I do encourage you experiment using all possible means and combinations, and to report your results. I have plans to conduct many experimental magnet layouts, but can only do one at a time. You might consider testing some layouts on 1/16" thick sheet metal strips attached to a wood flywheel ring such as the one I built. The 4" width of the ring would allow wide ranging placements, and the sheet metal attachments would allow for quick rearrangements and adjustments.

Best regards to you,

Rick

Hi Rick,

Good to hear from you, I was starting to worry about you, it's been awhile since your last post. Family time really is the best.

I just can't seem to get a dollar ahead here to build a pipe dream set up, but could wait no longer to test some ideas, so I clamped a piece of angled iron in my work mate table, and mounted a salvaged, rusty, noisy, bike wheel in it and the testing has begun.

At this time I have only some salvaged magnets from microwaves aprox 2 1/4" X 1/2" round w/ 3/4" hole, some stronger than others, but quite strong especially in repulsion. I read somewhere that magnets used only in repulsion will eventually loose their strength, is this true?

I have found that 7 mags works out well with my spoke spacing and will try an even number 2 or 4 moving stater mags to hopefully push through the sticky spot. I will keep you updated on progress and post some pics here or in your mostat thread if you would prefer, for a pipe dream it is not. I do not know how to post thumbnails but feel that it would help conserve thread space if used. That's all for now.

Buy the way, your build is a beautiful thing.

Best to you,
Gene

Hi Gene,

Ceramic and alnico magnets working in repulsion do lose strength, but that won't be a problem with neodymiums.

Thumbnail photos actually take up more thread space than the large photos that I show here. My photos are stored on a free SkyDrive file server located elsewhere, and the thread here only links to them, while thumbnails and files uploaded to the EnergeticForum server actually do take up storage space.

Feel free to show a photo of your bike wheel and magnet setup. Anything that works can easily be adapted to the Pipe Dream build.

Best regards,

Rick

Hi Rick,

Just thought I'd pop in and pass on something that might aid you.

There's an oil based metal "conditioner" available here called "Roil Oil" and it's certainly worth a look as it will help reduce any friction issues you may be encountering.

If you get access to the videos via the manufacturers website, I'm sure you'll be impressed with just how slippery this stuff makes things.

It would be the perfect treatment for roller bearings or where a shaft contacts a bush, etc.