The difference between Timothy's devices and Coke a cola is there are tons of people using the product they get to experience the end result.

Agreed evidence does not mean absolute proof. But when spending money it is better to have more than the inventor's word on it.

Thinking it thru, where are the satisfied customers of Timothy? If they have paid the $ where are the generators that are now running on this device?

Next question, if the devices do what they say they can do, why are they not generating all of their own energy and selling energy back to the grid? If they have these devices, then they should have a substantial income that they would not even need to ask for money.

If the reason is that they are afraid of it falling into the wrong hands then why set a price on it? I mean, do you sell the device to the wrong hands for a price?

Is there any benefit for us if we donate our money to witt instead of to panacea or other free energy website? I think if we have money we should help people that do the research and showing/reporting their work and allow us to replicate. It would guarantee people will get something in return. I don't care if it's a real deal or not but how do we know that Witt do not make a commercial product with our donation money? It would be no different than donating to TOYOTA or Sharp to develop green energy. They would make use the money to make a working green energy stuff, but we still have to buy their product to taste it.



BTW, about Hans von Lieven, He seems to overlook the frequency needed to make Keely machine to operate, he may overlook other important detail to replicate Keely's work too.
From Lieven site:


From Keely and His discoveries book.



He may be wrong to state that Keely's machine are too complex to replicate. His attempt to replicate the device seems very different from Dale Pond which already built one of Keely's device and explain his experience in building one here:
Roots of the Vibratory Etheric Tree


Should we trust anything posted at KEELY'S FRAUD , should we trust Hans von Lieven at all ?

well, when i accessed the members page and read the tastements, and saw the two scanned-in bills (electrical and heating), the bills were from people who had WITTS devices installed.
but, of course, you'd need to order an actual printout from the powercompany, and might still not believe.

Sucahyo I believe we need to start a separate thread about Keely´s technology and start by clear definitions of his musical terms just like Hans says. Harmonic, enharmonic, diatonic, dischords, conchords, octaves, overtones, etc, etc.

And then I believe Hans means that it is impossible to build the mechanical resonance that he did with that kind of precision that he had. In addition you must be a musical genius to just get the device starting and detect the exact resonance tones of the geometry. And Keely´s devices changed resonance tones from one day to another, in brief they were almost impossible to operate for anyone but Keely who was a genius beyond anyone I have ever heard of. And it´s just sad Tesla and Schauberger etc don´t credit him.... There should be at least as many forums about his tech as about Tesla...

What Hans means is that we should replicate Keely´s work by exact frequency electronics(crystals) just like Tesla tried and Moray continued.

So let´s first discuss the music terminology and then the transducers shall we? You want to do start the thread because I am too choked at the moment? Thanks for your hard work, I will try to help as much as I can.


About Witts isn´t it great their tech works?! Only that is worth as much as all open source projects alltogether. Because in due time we will all be able to do that tech level. And I believe they could open source but the challenge will always be the tuning of the transducers which will cost too much time and money. So we need to figure out a better way to do it... Maybe geometry and spin is the way.

I don't think I will start a thread about Keely device because I don't think I have anything more to suggest or experiment. I think it is better to see the progress of Bob boyce cell replication or Stanley meyer replication.

What is the relation between Keely and Schauberger? Scahuberger explosive water do not use resonant as the key principle but use spesific way of fluid movement instead.

About precision, I think it depend on the approach. I think there should be a way to achieve it with less precision. Or else it wouldn't work if we move it to another place because it became too sensitive to temperature, humidity, elevation, air pressure, etc. Remind me of Bob boyce electrolysis cell or Stanley Meyer replication. If the device become too sensitive with environment change, I think it is better to find another way because the solution become too costly to become a free energy device.

Getting energy efficient device is only half of the effort, we need to make it cost efficient too. Nobody would be interested in buying 10 years worth of electricity bill free energy device that can only last for two years or have expensive maintenance or operating cost.

I don't think having precision crystal would be enough if we go to electronic way. Even generating the same volume for left and right channel in a stereo system is quite a challenge. I think the device would need a precision measurement tool, and for component: precision resistor, precision transistor, precision chip, precision diode, precision coil, precision capacitor, precision wire, etc. I don't think it is available in the market since most of the component have more than 1% deviation. I imagine the device would be very very expensive.

On the second though, maybe using usual crystal with some resistor with different value in series can compete with precision crystal. I don't see the point of the precision crystal if we still have to use variable resistor or variable capacitor to tune it.

Compare GEET, Meyer injector, Schauberger Kudu horn and Stuttgart experiment and you will see that resonance and vortex is key for all of the devices. One needs to read alot and consider even more, after awhile if you are lucky yu see a flash and you see the light. I believe 30-50 books about FE researchers is a must from many different sources. Same theme everywhere, combine the stuff and you get further, though Keely, Tesla and Shcauberger are real keys. Keely is the origin of all other researchers, one page from him holds as much value as 100-1000 pages from other authors. Too bad and understandable they burned all his books....

Yes, it is a big loss that Keely's book being burned.

But I still failed to see why Schauberger have to credit Keely? In what way Schauberger use Keely work? I am aware that Viktor Schauberger use a device that force the fluid to spiral on a spiral on a spiral on a spiral. If he have to give credit, I think it should be the scientist behind "occult chemistry".

About vortex, I only see it being active in improving water quality. I don't see it being used in free energy device. Can you mention some device that utilize vortex?

An FE device utilizing Schauberger vortex should not generate heat, it should absorb heat. I think tesla turbine work the opposite of what Viktor Schauberger mention. It should be interesting to see more progress in this area. Water in my cup became fresh cold after few hours of being placed inside HV part of radiant oscillator one wire coil. But this is the furthest I can go for Schauberger methode in electronics experiment. 555 based coil collpase current:
YouTube - Moving neon bulb light #2

ok, ive seen the gift page now, or the proposal for it. theres quite a few plans and also devices. the prices are not cheap.

Sucahyou, you read the book Living Energies from Callum Coats where he made a drawing of the last version of the Repulsine with Kudu anthelope horns? If you saw that drawing you would know what I mean, it is based on resonance(freq) and a centripetal-vcentrifugal movement as Keely suggested. And the Stuttgart experiment where he finds resonance spots in the flow rate where resistance drops to negative in the curled pipe? Study it.

When you read his 40 laws yuo realize the guys after him got it all served and there is ALOT that remains to be understood about Keely´s work, he was a genius beyond anyone and surely the most gifted man in the history of mankind, he got the whole picture of nature down to ethereal energy in freqs and resonances calculated. Did you know magnetism has a freq of 128.4 kHz(triplet of water freq 42.8 kHz)??? Just a very small detail from his work. His work is just unimaginable and very few people can see it. Read Universal Laws.

I don't agree that it is based on Keely's work since it would work not only at spesific frequency, resonant frequency maybe different and it would still work. While Keely's work use a spesific frequency tuning, and it would not work if the device resonant frequency changed.

And Viktor Schauberger only want centripetal movement and absolutely forbid utilizing a centrifugal movement. They have different way of getting more energy. Keely use frequency to disrupt atom while Schauberger use atom like movement to make it stronger or transmute it. Different.

Well, he obviously did not "forbid" it although it is a bad thing to use in isolation.

What he did is he used centripetal-centrifugal force at the same time in the rotating Kudu horn which is a completely different thing. Cycloid-spiralling motion is a term used.

About Keely the best friend of Schauberger was Rudolf Steiner who was the biggest fan of of Keely and Keely said cycloid-spiralling movement is the future and that is what the rotating Kudu horn is all about. Schauberger clearly got the Keely information, maybe from Steiner.

This is like electronics only bigger stuff is used.

I don´t believe you read those books that I mention so the discussion is somewhat useless.

Schauberger did absolutly nothing with Frequencies, they been a Sideeffect of his buildings,
and his Basics are complete Different from Keelys or any other Electrommagnetic Devices.

Joit, that stands for you, I see it the opposite way but I read many books about Schauberger and in case you study the Stuttgart experiment you can celarly see the sinus curve of resonance points.

Guess, better dont start to talk about, what stands for whom.
You attack anyone, even personal, if he doesnt have your Opinion,
because you have the Knowledge of the World rented.
You still cry around with Stan Meyer, and new Solutions, how to made it,
even WHEN H20Power almost completed the Thread about the Theme, and this exemplary,
but you allways come with new Ideas, how it HAS to Work, because its your Opinion.

Why dont you go finally and BUILD SUCH A DAMN COIL, or the complete Stan Meyer Device, and THEN give Results and your Suggestions,
as to order PEOPLES, " NOW YOU HAVE DO AND TO BUY THIS THING."
You allways make a lot Blablabla, where nothing, absolutly nothing comes around.
But you dont show one Pice of Practically Experience.
All you say is basically, "I Know", because "I read that"
It has something good, when someone can put new Ideas out,
but seriously, there is nothing, where someone can be very proud of this like you are.

I read a lot of Sience from the Internet too, and its full of Stuff,
but once, there are mostly not all Infos in, what you need to proper rebuild something, even at the Patents, because they leave mostly something out,
and second, when you ever had build once such a Thing, you would see,
Only one Time, that Theorie and Pratice are mostly Miles apart,
plus, there are a lot Patents out, where it isnt even sure, that they ever worked.
And now you came with another Research Group, where you think, the best would be when all should join and if noone agree you play a defiantly Child, and i personally dislike H.v.Lieven, because he looks more like one from this overpowered Researchers, it looks more like, he can tell you, how it doesnt work, instead an other Way.

What you see from Schauberger is again how you will see it,
but its not this, what he talks about.
I can read his Homepage and Sites very well, and know, in wich Direction he worked.
All his Designs base only at the golden Ratio and Implosion instead Explosion,
that are his Basic Effects with what he did work about,
and not because i only can think this way, Dont worry.
His Devices all worked with any Kind of Fluid, what become a better COP with his Design.
His research at the musical Scale just show us, that they are all based at the Golden Ratio too.
Frequency is there the Consequence

To comment on the original topic
Gauss
Esa
JibGuy
Others
I agree Thrapp/Witts needs to be looked at MUCH closer ,and I appreciate your efforts in doing so.
Perhaps the new developments in OUR /their world will entice them to share

Chet

Joit, is everyone entitled to an opinion about tech? Thanks.

I want to HELP people and I am no MIB(!), I urge people to read Callum Coats, Stuttgart experiment, Kelvin waterdropper etc. I want to see PROGRESS and I sincerely believe I have alot of progress left to do... I also believe some others can progress.. Yes talking about stuff is only first step, doing is second step. I can not do what Witts is doing but I try to find other ways. Ultrasonic transducers is a fresh approach to shatter polarized water with extreme OU, let´s try it shall we..... Even if it is your not your or my idea...

Maybe one day more practical news will come.

I do. I also forgot that the stuggart experiment result of the copper pipe resistance become positive again is actually an intended extrapolation not by Schauberger. So there maybe no sweet spot or resonant water speed, maybe just minimum water speed (limit not range). Commonly, speeding water do not associated with frequency.

Notice that in his device the kudu horn shape are used from big spiral/hole to small spiral/hole, never the opposite. But, don't read just the kudu horn part please.

I have been experimenting a bit with copper water funnel. I must say I am surprise. The pipe do resist less, the water get to the bottom like there is no pipe:


Now become my kid's favorite toy when he goes to bath because of funny gurgled noise when it suck the water down . And again, I do not tune it for spesific frequency.

Schauberger attracted ,to spiralling movement from observing water snake and water movement while he build his first water log.

That is wrong assumption, see the note of the graphic, and notice where the estimated line start.
Alexandersson - Living Water - Viktor Schauberger and the Secrets of Natural Energy:


Schauberger do avoid using centrifugal:
since he want to make healthy device instead of killing device.


not posting quote kinda empty lol, the summary of long quote bellow are:
- Schauberger hate explosion/centrifugal device.
- no spesific frequency, he just utilize centripetal for his plough, repulsin, water pump, etc.

Bartholomew - Hidden Nature - The Startling Insights of Viktor Schauberger

Coats & Schauberger - Living Energies - Viktor Schaubergers Brilliant Work With Natural Energy Explained

@Sucahyou, do you think you can argue with me about somehting without having seen the drawing in the books of the spinning Kudu horn? I am not going to argue in words about a drawing.

If you spin a Kudu horn, how do you think the water inside the horn will move? Centrifugally - BUT in a centripetal way since the outer diameter of the whirling pipe is diminishing until you reach the nozzle where you pick up tremendous force.

Centripetal is basic but the spinning Kudu horn is the interesting step to a higher level which resembles cosmos.

For an efficient heater (COP 17) go here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eld-model.html

This?

What I know is that the fluid will flow to the center. This is the natural movement so we may not have to force it, there maybe no centrifugal force involved.

This kind of vortex is not only found naturally at very large scale like in space but also in very small scale in atom. At the last disintegration state of atom, it form an eggshaped vortex where matter will transform to energy but also at the same time energy will transform to matter in the center of it (occult chemistry theory). in higher disintegration state, atom consist of many spiral that form a bigger spiral in 7 step of size.

Keely mention atom as a group three thing. In Occult chemistry this only seen in Hydrogen atoms, where it is consist of two group of three thing. Keely mention it has positive, negative and neutral. While Occult chemistry mention it to has positive, positive and negative in one group while in other group positive, negative and negative.

Since I believe the existance of intelligent living being in unseen world, also because this world consist of 7 level, I believe Occult Chemistry more. I think the people who write it got help from the intelligent living being from unseen world. Just like TRV or remote healing or other supranatural power.

Keely seems do not believe/know the existance of this unseen world, which is a pity. The reason King Solomon have people from this unseen world working for him is because the flute of King David can also cure living being from unseen world.

Current science think that air have to go straight, seen in vertical section added in aeroplane wing and racing car. Since fluid will attempt to move in spiral, it would be interesting to see the result of racing car or aeroplane utilizing spiral air movement maybe enveloping their whole body instead of attempting to correct it.

I hope to see a device that working by spiral prinsiple.

Yes taht is the shape and you mount many of them in circular fashion in 1D and spins the whole arrangemetn very fast with a neutral center of suction. The water flows from center out to the periphery with tremendous force. 1D centrifugal, 2D centripetal - are you with me?

gauss, schauberger got it from nature, not from keely.
wilhelm reich also had his own spinning wave theory (kreiserwelle), which is somewhat similar to what schauberger was after, but whilst schauberger is talked about a lot, wilhelm reich's spinning-wave theory is almost never mentioned.

i think you're running the risk of creating schauberger history without there really being any basis on it. be very careful!
schauberger term cycloid-space-curve..

No, I can't translate a 1D centrifugal. I see centrifugal as a force, a vector which require direction, not as scalar 1D value. Maybe you mean 2D and 3D.

Either way, you are talking only one level of spiraling motion. What I mean is spiraling motion inside a spiraling motion:
Occult Chemistry:


Viktor Schauberger:


The design of the turbine are a close resemblance of atomic movement but with the output has smaller diameter. Schauberger seems trying to achieve as many level of spiralling as possible.

Ok, now before we go any further about this discussion you MUST read the book Living Energies from Callum Coats and check out his drawing of the Repulsine in the last chapter, his drawing tells the whole story although i would modify it when building it, it is a good start however.

The radial direction through the Kudu horns give a centrifugal discharge vector(a force oftremendous magnitude) through the 4 nozzles agains the turbine elements of the diamter periphery. And yes the water flows radially from the neutral center to the periphery of the circle. But in a centripetal spiralling movement from center to periphery.

I believe that if you want to do stuff in MW range you should look at this drawing.

Hi folks, I understand were all only human as far as I know, but this comment from Aaron is very interesting to me.
Quote: "For some of us, info that is released, research in front of and behind the scenes is actually how some of us make a living. Some of us make a living by doing this full time. If we gave away all our work for free, we will have to go on welfare and be burden to society and become nothing but a problem instead of being a part of the solution."
It can be said, as many have already up to this point in history, that all the energy technologies and then some that humanity needs to become independent of any centralized source have been invented already, so why then are we focusing on creating that which is already here. The quote above In my opinion is the real reason the people of all lands do not as yet have access to a cheap unlimited independent energy source and this is not aimed at Aaron as an attack or any other such thing. In fact It Is a statement of our world and I am using his words to highlight the real cause.
Now why is a human being on welfare a burden, when the fact is the systems are set up that way and at any time in history there have always been millions of these so called burdens due to these very systems. So then, can it be honestly said that the human being on welfare is the burden or is the truth just the opposite, that the systems of society still in operation are the burden. So then can we see that the solution will never come from this way of thinking. I am well aware of the sticky situation we have all been put in just by being born into this planet, however I can assure you that If we as a human race insist on following these old ways of thinking that were started long ago by greed, power, fear and you know the rest i am sure, then we will never move ahead to see a 'golden age'. True survival is sharing freely that which our creator has given us, which is everything. You can choose to believe that self survival is actually survival, but then tell me how will a tree survive without branches. In conclusion, I did not write this to come off as some know it all preacher, I wrote it to try and offer wisdom and my love for all life even though most around me seem more caught up in the drama of life than to look where there going.
peace love light

Ok, centrifugal force exist in there. Just realize that maybe a centripetal and centrifugal term maybe missused since Schauberger said to never have college education.

But I can't see the relation of it to Keely. I still can't find reference where Keely suggest the use of cycloid motion. Keely don't use cycloid in his device as far as I know. The reference about cycloid in Dale Pond svpvril.com page refer to Schauberger.


About people make living by holding some of free energy information and only publish some of them, I think it is better to leave them do that instead of having no one working on free energy device. Although they have to make sure to make a backup copy of their work so it would not lost forever.

hiya. for what its worth, the website that i volunteered to do for Thrapp/WITTS, i.e., their "gifts available for those who donate, specify the gift you want upon donating and receive it" page, or giftpage for short, is now online and available.

what i did was: 1) receive the information 2) correct SOME typos, not all 3) receive 3 images, 4) resize them 5) make a little page 6) add paypal buttons.

so there they are, what WITTS are willing to make available to those who help them with their fundraiser.

WITTS Giftpage

again, MERLib is completely unattached to any one movement - especially since quite a few seem to be locking horns (you know who you are). i'm here to help, and im doing it in good faith. i myself intend to order the free energy 101 eBook (i have no opinions on what to expect of it, but am waiting to receive it) and the atmospheric milliwatt electrical energy converter plans. i will read the ebook and consult the plans, and see where i end up in. there will (for 100% sure) be a MERLib review article about the eBook and about the plans, and the results of me trying to solder together the plan.

another detail is that i have been talking with Thrapp and have requested that WITTS make 5-10 pages of the eBook available as preview/tasters. since it is supposed to have some plans and experiments one can build, i will try to get those to be in the previews, so that maybe someone here who is inspired would build/replicate one of their little experiments and we could see what happens.

i will not be purchasing the flux switch transformer, flux switch generator or the flux switch motor, and am not interested in the mileage booster. the reason is that the next kit after the atmospheric converter is to get a friedrich bedini kit..

anyway, have fun. i'm sure i've given you enough fodder to flame on for the next week or so.

Esa
Thank you
looking forward to your article.

Chet

That fuel efficiency thingie looks to simply be a flexible magnet strip wrapped around a neoprene fuel line.

Is that correct?

Has anyone here ever tried that particular trick before? I know that magnets on fuel lines have an old and storied past, but this appears to be a new "twist" on it hehehe (sorry couldn't resist that one).

well, am still waiting for delivery