The Real History of the Ed Gray Motor by Mark McKay
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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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Old 04-16-2009, 08:34 PM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Thumbs up Fuel from old tires, it works!

Hi all.
Have a look at these videos:
YouTube - Tyre Recycling into Fuel and Oil

It is obvious that old tires are a big problem and you can't just throw them away or burn them. So why not turn them into fuel. The process is very simple. You need a big metal barrel where you can put in the tires or any other rubber. You just heat the barrel so that the rubber starts to melt and boil. All the exhaust from the barrel needs to go through a cooled radiator. The exhaust gasses will condensate into liquid and gas. On the other end of the radiator you need a smaller tank where the liquid and gas is separated. The gas can be burned for heating and in theory there is more than enough gas to sustain the big barrel heating process by its own, even with some extra gas that you can use for other purposes. So I decided to give it a try since I have a huge pile of old tires. My brother and I made a simple and cheap system all out of junk parts. It did not cost us nothing, just our time. The main barrel is an old 100L boiler. We cut away all the parts that were not needed and welded shut all the holes that we did not need. We made a lid for the barrel so that it can be opened for filling. We used an old steel radiator for the condenser, we just welded a box around it and filled the radiator space with cold water for better cooling. Here is how it looked like:



very simple and low-tec
The radiator:



The process begins:



The flammable gas went through a bubbler and into a metal pipe with a mesh on the end.





The process goes on until no gas comes out anymore, then it is time to empty the liquid/gas separator and you get a very bad smelling, muddy liquid that looks like dirty water with algae in it. When filtered from the solids, it looks like this:



It appears like oil, but it is in fact not thick at all, it's density is much like gasoline or diesel and it burns very well. A friend who also made such a test a while ago, said that he ran his moped with this stuff - pure, not mixed with anything and it ran better than with gasoline. The other thing that is left from the process is charcoal:





It is dry and light. It does not burn and does not smell. The gas smells like hell, something like propane, diesel and rubber, but if you burn it, it does not smell bad anymore. There are some black smoke coming from the flame, but this is because the gas does not burn fully, at least with our simple setup. If you wave your hand through the flame, some of the gas sticks to the hand and burns for a while on your hand. Of course all this should be done properly, because the gas is toxic and even when burned, the smoke is also not good to your health. My results are very good, the process works well. Our setup is crude and inefficient, but this was so just for the first test and I learned a lot. We need to change much, but anyway, the results are pretty good. In theory if you recycle 100kg of rubber, you get about 33L of fuel and VERY MUCH gas. Will modify the big barrel for more efficient performance and safety. Then I will try to run some engines with this stuff
Hope you enjoyed reading.
Thank you!
Jetijs

Last edited by Jetijs : 04-16-2009 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:17 PM
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Another youtube video:
YouTube - Tyres to Oil - Continuous Carbonisation System Video #6
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Vortex Vortex is offline
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Really cool.

Those gases and liquid, as from the tires, come from just about ANYTHING
you would put into that barrel Jetijs. not just tires.
Give it a go, Jetijs .. try something else, other than tires, in your barrel you have handy. Same as a woodgas stove it is.

How does one cut up tires into small bits? That's the biggest problem ..

Any gases that does not condensed into liquid could be piped back to heat the barrel saving on fuel.

I would think that charcoal is loaded with carbon and would make good food
for mycorrhizal fungus, which seems to like old motor oil.

just keep

Last edited by Vortex : 04-16-2009 at 09:39 PM. Reason: woodgas stove
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:48 PM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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You are right, just about any plastic will do. So this is an excellent way to recycle garbage. If you want to dispose some tires properly, you need to bring them to a special facility that recycles them and you also have to pay for that. But this way not only you recycle them properly by yourself, you also get free heating from extra gas that is not needed to sustain the barrel heating and free fuel. And you can get old tires for free from local car repair shops, because they are so happy if someone takes them and they don't need to do all the necessary stuff to dispose them properly.
And yes, that charcoal should be pure carbon.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:46 AM
Dingus Dingus is online now
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I thought this was going to be about the machine created by Frank Pringle, but this is also interesting. Although I don't think this is the type of stuff I'd be willing to put in my car.
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:27 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Thanks for posting man , maybe use the heat source form a solar parabolic dish?
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:18 AM
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Dingus, of course, I also would not use it for my car. More testing is needed. I will try it for small engines first, something like a lawn mover. But this stuff can be used as is for home heating, you just need a burner that runs on liquid fuel.


Ash, solar dish wont deliver the heat needed. You need to burn some wood or use a gas burner to heat the barrel. The metal walls of the barrel become red hot during the process
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:28 PM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Hi!
Here is a short video about the process:
YouTube - fuel from old tires through pyrolysis
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:11 PM
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Hi Jetijs,

Excellent work , I was curious about your tires .... do they have steel plys or belts encased in the rubber and if so is there any problems you have incurred during the process using this type of tire. Most all tires in the United States uses steel belts .......

As always, keep up the outstanding work

Best Regards,
Glen
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:25 PM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Hi Glen
For these tests I used all the old rubbers that I could find that do not have any steel in them. Because it is very hard to cut a tire in smaller pieces without an industrial shredder. I just wanted to test the process. There were many failures, but now I have figured it all out
Thanks.
Jetijs
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:40 PM
uusedman uusedman is offline
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you can use the gas to burn the tires or maybe make storage tank to store the gas and use it later to burn the tires.

Can we use this gas to cook food? You said it smelled bad and was toxic.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:55 PM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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The collecting of the gas in a tank would be too costly. In theory the pyrolysis process produces so much gas that the process can get self sustaining and you can get even some extra gas to use it for home heating or something else. Also, I am sure that there is certainly a way to use this gas for cooking, but the gas should not be used in open flame like fashion like propane.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:29 PM
uusedman uusedman is offline
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heating homes in the winter.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:56 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Another method

You are going to get some very bad exhaust gases. People are going to get deeply upset.

The GRC microwaves project seems very interesting:
Directory:Global Resource Corp:High-Frequency Attenuating Wave Kinetics or HAWK - PESWiki

Paul.
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:46 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Jetijs

Have you had chance to test the emmisions. Or do you have the means to do so. A local school may have a gas spectrometer. Usually water treatment facilties have them. Alot of state highway divisions have labs for this purpose.

If it was just producing CO2 that would be safe, But I expect a High Carbon Monoxide count. You may also be leaching other emmisions. Alot of chemicals in tire rubber production are not petroleum based. And not all tire rubber is made to a standard. Chinese tires may have alot more toxins than an American tire.

You shou;d not experiment with plastics without first looking at the emmisions breakdown on them. PVC for instants emits many cancer causing emmisions. That do not breakdown in the enviroment easily.

Whatever you do test it before you put your self in position where you or someone else has to breath it.

Matt
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:35 PM
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Here is my suggestion: File a patent application and ask your patent examinar if he is happy with your "invention".

Take no offense. I have seen this stupid thing in Afghanistan. I just found it hard to tolerate the smell.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:46 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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About woodgas generators

Maybe this is interesting to know, too. During WW-II, lots of cars and trucks in continental Europe were running on woodgas, using gas generators produced by local mechanics.

The FEMA published a manual about how to construct these things:
http://www.webpal.org/webpal/b_recov..._generator.pdf
http://www.global-greenhouse-warming..._generator.pdf

An OCR'ed version can be found at:
The Gengas Page

The Gengas Page
"Fuel gas, produced by the reduction of coal and peat, was used for heating as early as 1840 in Europe and by 1884 had been adapted to fuel engines in England. Prior to 1940, gas generator units were a familiar, but not extensively utilized, technology. However, petroleum shortages during World War II led to widespread gas generator applications in the transportation industries of Western Europe. (Charcoal burning taxis, a related application, were still common in Korea as late as 1970.) The United States, never faced with such prolonged or severe oil shortages, has lagged far behind Europe and the Orient in familiarity with and application of this technology. However, a catastrophic event could disrupt the supply of petroleum in this country so severely that this technology might be critical in meeting the energy needs of some essential economic activities, such as the production and distribution of food.

In occupied Denmark during World War II, 95% of all mobile farm machinery, tractors, trucks, stationary engines, and fishing and ferry boats were powered by wood gas generator units. Even in neutral Sweden, 40% of all motor traffic operated on gas derived from wood or charcoal. All over Europe, Asia, and Australia, millions of gas generators were in operation between 1940f and 1946. Because of the wood gasifier's health risks from toxic fumes, most of such units were abandoned when il again became available in 1945. Except for the technology of producing alternate fuels, such as methane or alcohol, the only solution for operating existing internal combustion engines, when oil and petroleum products are not available, has been theese simple, inexpensive gasifiers units.

This report attempts to preserve the knowledge about wood gasification that was put into practical use during World War II. In this report, detailed step-by-step procedures are presented for constructing a simplified version of the WWII wood gas generator; this simple, stratified, downdraft gasifier unit (shown schematically in Fig. S-1) can be constructed from materials which would be widely available in the United States in a prolonged petroleum crisis. For example, the body of the unit consists of a galvanized metal garbage can atop a small metal drum; common plumbing fittings are used throughout; and a large, stainless steel mixing bowl is used for the grate. A prototype gasifier unit was fabricated from these instructions (see Fig. S-2); this unit was then mounted onto the front of a farm tractor and successfully field tested, using wood chips as the only fuel (see Fig. S-3). Photographic documentation of the actual assembly of the unit, as well as its operational field test, is included in the body of this report.

The use wood gas generators need not be limited to transportation applications. Stationary engines can also be fueled by wood gasifiers to run electric generators, pumps, and industrial equipment. In fact, the use of wood gas as a fuel is not even restricted to gasoline engines; if a small amount of diesel fuel is used for ignition, a properly adjusted diesel engine can be operated primarily on wood gas introduced through the intake manifold."


From Woodgas for alternative energy - biomass hydrogen syngas fuel :

The World Bank commissioned the writing of the technical paper 296. It has a lot of information on woodgas.:
http://www.woodgas.net/files/World%2...aper%20296.pdf

The United Nations Food and Agriculture Department produced the FOA 72 document. It is considered one of the better sources of woodgas information.
http://www.woodgas.net/files/FOA%2072.pdf


Also see:
Wood gas generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wood gas generator construction details
Gasifier Experimenters Kit
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:44 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Am going to try the solar parabolic dish to HEAT and then run the oil in the GEET lawn mower in 2 weeks will post when done.

Ash
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:38 AM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Sorry for the mess with my pictures. All my pictures related to pyrolysis can now be found here:
Jeti stuff: Jeti stuff » Degviela no riepām
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Old 09-07-2010, 03:35 PM
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Similar, a Dutch university found a process which turns bio waste (like wood chips) into crude oil. It's so much like crude oil, that it "requires" regular refineries to turn it into petrol, diesel, etc. Sure this "green" fuel will be loved by the big money makers. I wonder why we don't make steam engines to run on such fuel sources directly, seems like a system that's proven to work :-)
Some more research to GEETs running on crude oil might add to this discovery, and then scratch the raison d'etre of the world's refineries.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:56 AM
Narendra Narendra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
Similar, a Dutch university found a process which turns bio waste (like wood chips) into crude oil. It's so much like crude oil, that it "requires" regular refineries to turn it into petrol, diesel, etc. Sure this "green" fuel will be loved by the big money makers. I wonder why we don't make steam engines to run on such fuel sources directly, seems like a system that's proven to work :-)
Some more research to GEETs running on crude oil might add to this discovery, and then scratch the raison d'etre of the world's refineries.
In India rice millers r running there mill on old steam engines, fuel to these engines is rice husk.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:57 AM
Savvypro Savvypro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
Similar, a Dutch university found a process which turns bio waste (like wood chips) into crude oil. It's so much like crude oil, that it "requires" regular refineries to turn it into petrol, diesel, etc. Sure this "green" fuel will be loved by the big money makers. I wonder why we don't make steam engines to run on such fuel sources directly, seems like a system that's proven to work :-)
Some more research to GEETs running on crude oil might add to this discovery, and then scratch the raison d'etre of the world's refineries.
Do you know what the process entails to turn the bio waste to oil?

Any links?
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:59 AM
faramog faramog is offline
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Did some work on recyclying tyres into useable oils and carbon black 4 years ago or so.

If all you do is boil several things will happen. Firstly, you will not get all the usable oils as some of the heavier hydrocarbon chains (H24+) required high temps. Second, you will get a large amount of very noixious gases. A bubbler is not enough and they should be properly burned at high temp: also you will annoy a lot of neighbours with the smell. Oh, and its dangerous with very explosive gases !!

Full pyroloysis should yield approx 40% of the mass as usable oils but with a range of hydrocarbon chains up to 40+. Definitely not something for your car. The boiling approach will get the lighter gasoline/diesel fractions which may be suitable but not for long term use. Also, some of the substances are corrosive and have a significant impact on machinery durability making extraction on a commercial basis expensive.

Lots of other stuff - the energy needed is pretty high and in most instances higher than that you get back. There is the environmental impact of disposal of the left-overs (which can be pretty toxic).

The argument of re-use in tyres is discounted as no tyre manufacturere will touch the stuff as they cannot guarantee the quality of the material. Only low grade (farm type) is suitable

Interesting from an exprimental point of view but impractical for commercial use, but all in all, not a suitable alternate energy path at present.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:37 AM
natalie1234 natalie1234 is offline
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your homemade oil machine

Are you still using it and if so how is it going. I'm intersted in making one myself but I'm not sure of temperatures and such. Also I can't seem to see the pictures you have posted. Do you still have them? I'm very interested in this system. Thanks
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:50 PM
sjtalk9 sjtalk9 is offline
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gas smell problem solution?

As I know that the extra gases which are not used in burning are vent off. These gases smell like LPG or something poisonous.
I want the solution to get rid of it.
I have thought that extra gases should be burnt in a chamber and then the smoke (maybe some gases left unburnt) passed through a long stack so that no pollution is their.
After burning will their be any smell of these gases?

Any other solution to get rid of these extra gases?
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:59 AM
faramog faramog is offline
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Lots of the elements that break down from Tyres are very nasty - corrossive, toxic, long lasting. Best way to eliminate is with a high temperature burner. The experimental rig I worked on had a burner fed by LPG.. can't remember the temperature needed but 700C + rings a bell.

As I said before, its not a viable fuel source - lots of experimental work been done over a few years .. it is too costly for the gain back

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjtalk9 View Post
As I know that the extra gases which are not used in burning are vent off. These gases smell like LPG or something poisonous.
I want the solution to get rid of it.
I have thought that extra gases should be burnt in a chamber and then the smoke (maybe some gases left unburnt) passed through a long stack so that no pollution is their.
After burning will their be any smell of these gases?

Any other solution to get rid of these extra gases?
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:31 AM
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Emissions control

While at BCIT in chem sci, my class did, in part, work and research on emissions for a sponsor. In the end, the process did end up in pulp mills around BC, and while, I, myself, only worked on a portion of the system (20 years ago) - I do understand the basics.

If you take a smoke stack, and the resulting "smog" and you subject it to a tower of (for now, let's call them ping pong balls, or foosballs for example... that continuously showered in a medium (10%) strength H2SO4 wash (fed by a turnstile up top, not unlike the turnstile in a dishwasher, the shower will scrub the particulate matter from the emissions. Then the H2S04 goes though a series of filters. The resultant solids are removed on a schedule and incinerated with hydrogen or HHO gas, or disposed of / contained.

Just a possible addition to this J.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:11 AM
ozgar ozgar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Hi all.
Have a look at these videos:
YouTube - Tyre Recycling into Fuel and Oil

It is obvious that old tires are a big problem and you can't just throw them away or burn them. So why not turn them into fuel. The process is very simple. You need a big metal barrel where you can put in the tires or any other rubber. You just heat the barrel so that the rubber starts to melt and boil. All the exhaust from the barrel needs to go through a cooled radiator. The exhaust gasses will condensate into liquid and gas. On the other end of the radiator you need a smaller tank where the liquid and gas is separated. The gas can be burned for heating and in theory there is more than enough gas to sustain the big barrel heating process by its own, even with some extra gas that you can use for other purposes. So I decided to give it a try since I have a huge pile of old tires. My brother and I made a simple and cheap system all out of junk parts. It did not cost us nothing, just our time. The main barrel is an old 100L boiler. We cut away all the parts that were not needed and welded shut all the holes that we did not need. We made a lid for the barrel so that it can be opened for filling. We used an old steel radiator for the condenser, we just welded a box around it and filled the radiator space with cold water for better cooling. Here is how it looked like:



very simple and low-tec
The radiator:



The process begins:



The flammable gas went through a bubbler and into a metal pipe with a mesh on the end.





The process goes on until no gas comes out anymore, then it is time to empty the liquid/gas separator and you get a very bad smelling, muddy liquid that looks like dirty water with algae in it. When filtered from the solids, it looks like this:



It appears like oil, but it is in fact not thick at all, it's density is much like gasoline or diesel and it burns very well. A friend who also made such a test a while ago, said that he ran his moped with this stuff - pure, not mixed with anything and it ran better than with gasoline. The other thing that is left from the process is charcoal:





It is dry and light. It does not burn and does not smell. The gas smells like hell, something like propane, diesel and rubber, but if you burn it, it does not smell bad anymore. There are some black smoke coming from the flame, but this is because the gas does not burn fully, at least with our simple setup. If you wave your hand through the flame, some of the gas sticks to the hand and burns for a while on your hand. Of course all this should be done properly, because the gas is toxic and even when burned, the smoke is also not good to your health. My results are very good, the process works well. Our setup is crude and inefficient, but this was so just for the first test and I learned a lot. We need to change much, but anyway, the results are pretty good. In theory if you recycle 100kg of rubber, you get about 33L of fuel and VERY MUCH gas. Will modify the big barrel for more efficient performance and safety. Then I will try to run some engines with this stuff
Hope you enjoyed reading.
Thank you!
Jetijs
Hi Jetjis. I want to know if a compressor tank is suitable as a pyrolysis reactor for tires, in label of the tank says max psi 130. If it is not suitable what type of tank do you suggest me, also how do you clean black oil from tire pyrolysis?
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