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  #1  
Old 04-12-2009, 12:32 AM
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FuzzyTomCat FuzzyTomCat is offline
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Home KW Hour Meter "Close Up"

Hi All,

In a earlier thread and maybe unrelated was a discussion on "Home Kilowatt Hour Meters" the four jaw type, rated at 200 amps at 240 volt and this is some of my explanations on the importance of load balancing.

The way the watt hour meter operates is the amperage or load is divided into two power legs or phases 120 volt line to ground circuits, each of the two being metered on a home 3-wire system (utility transformer or power lines to utility watt hour meter base). If one leg or phase of the 120 volt line to ground is at 40 amps and the other 120 volt line to ground is at 80 amps your pay for the 80 amps the higher of the two. If both 120 volt line to ground legs or phases are balanced at 60 amps per leg or phase ..... right you pay for the 60 amps ..... not the 80 amp high leg or phase on a unbalance 3-wire system.

The residential 240 volt 4-jaw meter uses CT's ( current transformers ) there is no center tap transformer in the old style 5 dial kilowatt hour meter, if you turn the meter up side down ...... the meter runs backwards, thus sealing tabs for no tampering with the utility meter configuration.

Always any modifications to your electrical service system should be done by qualified person or electrician.


Now I'm fairly sure of my explanations but ..... for further clarification ...... I have several KWH meters that are the type we are talking about that was purchased 15 years ago for "House Meters" where sub metering of a electrical service is required, commonly done today.

After breaking the side seal and removing the four cotter pins and drilling out the rivets heres the inside of a standard home KW hour meter ......








If anyone can figure out by the photos exactly how this puppy really works, it would possibly be helpful to someone here in the Energetic community, any other images needed just holler

Regards,
Glen
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:38 PM
TRON TRON is offline
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simple test of theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyTomCat View Post
Hi All,

In a earlier thread and maybe unrelated was a discussion on "Home Kilowatt Hour Meters" the four jaw type, rated at 200 amps at 240 volt and this is some of my explanations on the importance of load balancing.

The way the watt hour meter operates is the amperage or load is divided into two power legs or phases 120 volt line to ground circuits, each of the two being metered on a home 3-wire system (utility transformer or power lines to utility watt hour meter base). If one leg or phase of the 120 volt line to ground is at 40 amps and the other 120 volt line to ground is at 80 amps your pay for the 80 amps the higher of the two. If both 120 volt line to ground legs or phases are balanced at 60 amps per leg or phase ..... right you pay for the 60 amps ..... not the 80 amp high leg or phase on a unbalance 3-wire system.

The residential 240 volt 4-jaw meter uses CT's ( current transformers ) there is no center tap transformer in the old style 5 dial kilowatt hour meter, if you turn the meter up side down ...... the meter runs backwards, thus sealing tabs for no tampering with the utility meter configuration.

Always any modifications to your electrical service system should be done by qualified person or electrician.


Now I'm fairly sure of my explanations but ..... for further clarification ...... I have several KWH meters that are the type we are talking about that was purchased 15 years ago for "House Meters" where sub metering of a electrical service is required, commonly done today.

After breaking the side seal and removing the four cotter pins and drilling out the rivets heres the inside of a standard home KW hour meter ......



If anyone can figure out by the photos exactly how this puppy really works, it would possibly be helpful to someone here in the Energetic community, any other images needed just holler

Regards,
Glen
All you need is three identical meters and a 220 volt oven.
put one meter in parallel to the other two
each of the other two has one of the legs running thru it. compare the readings over time of the normal setup and one of the other two meters...

Clarification: lets say we have a meter normally CONNECTED call it REFERENCE METER =RM... then we name the other two meters LEG-A and LEG-B.

to prove or disprove your theory:
hook up phase A in parallel with RM on LEG-A hook up phase B in parallel with RM on LEG-B. Turn on the electric oven and watch all three meters... i would suspect that the RM watthour readings would match the SUM of the LEG-A and LEG-B watthour readings... otherwise your assumptions about a balanced load would be true. In the Electricians apprenticeship they told us that we needed to balance the loads to eliminate current on the neutral wire because it was shared between phase a, b and c on 3 wire systems as well as two wire... nobody ever mentioned anything about metering accuracy

IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT THE BILLING IS INACCURATE DUE TO UNBALANCED LOADS... WELL MY FRIEND... WE HAVE A HUGE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT THAT CAN CRIPPLE THOSE BASTARDS AT THE ELECTRIC UTILITIES! OR AT LEAST GET SOME HUGE REBATES IN PROCESS! I dont think any meter manufacturers would fabricate something that would leave them liable for inaccuracies later on... but who knows... possibly we have all been cheated over the years without even knowing it
Good Point.... now prove it in real time...ON VIDEO!
youtube to the rescue!
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:01 PM
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FuzzyTomCat FuzzyTomCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRON View Post
All you need is three identical meters and a 220 volt oven.
put one meter in parallel to the other two
each of the other two has one of the legs running thru it. compare the readings over time of the normal setup and one of the other two meters...

Clarification: lets say we have a meter normally CONNECTED call it REFERENCE METER =RM... then we name the other two meters LEG-A and LEG-B.

to prove or disprove your theory:
hook up phase A in parallel with RM on LEG-A hook up phase B in parallel with RM on LEG-B. Turn on the electric oven and watch all three meters... i would suspect that the RM watthour readings would match the SUM of the LEG-A and LEG-B watthour readings... otherwise your assumptions about a balanced load would be true. In the Electricians apprenticeship they told us that we needed to balance the loads to eliminate current on the neutral wire because it was shared between phase a, b and c on 3 wire systems as well as two wire... nobody ever mentioned anything about metering accuracy

IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT THE BILLING IS INACCURATE DUE TO UNBALANCED LOADS... WELL MY FRIEND... WE HAVE A HUGE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT THAT CAN CRIPPLE THOSE BASTARDS AT THE ELECTRIC UTILITIES! OR AT LEAST GET SOME HUGE REBATES IN PROCESS! I dont think any meter manufacturers would fabricate something that would leave them liable for inaccuracies later on... but who knows... possibly we have all been cheated over the years without even knowing it
Good Point.... now prove it in real time...ON VIDEO!
youtube to the rescue!
Well there is one problem using a 220 device that is used in series completing a circuit having solid bus bars placing it in "Parallel" usually causes a dead short from my experience as a EE for 10 years and then a Licensed Supervisor Electrician for the last 24 years. (look at the last two photos for clarifications, utility-source top lugs / residence-load bottom lugs)

The only other 3-phase metering with any problems is a 120/240 volt with a 187 volt wild or high leg, the other voltages 120/277 or 277/480 have CT type metering with a neutral reference usually a 13 jaw meter base for accuracy. You must remember these old dial meters were contrived in the 1940's not really up to date junk. And as far as YouTube do you know the "large" rotating dial must rotate 1000 times for one (1) KW hour, do you know how long a video would be ??? come on .... not YouTube even though I'm a member. I've had my screen name for 12 years you can actually "Google" it ..... I don't need that ... ... from that crowd

The NEC (National Electrical Code) also states that work must be to all applicable codes and as part of the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) which includes all added State and Local codes "including" any books from utility's companies suppling any electrical power ( including PUD's ), which includes usually always a clause that it is up to the installer to balance all loads as not to cause harm to there equipment or other consumers connected to there devices ...... no class action law suites ..... sorry

Regards,
Glen
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:37 PM
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Iotayodi Iotayodi is offline
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There are 2 types of meters. Electro mechanical and Solid state.That meter is an electro mechanical meter. The aluminum disc uses 2 two coils. One coil is for magnetic flux for voltage and the other for magnetic flux for current. The field of the voltage coil is delayed by 90 degrees using a lag coil. It doesn't sense one leg from the other. The calculation of the watts is still over both legs.
I guess they could monitor both legs, but why would they for a house. As far as Im concerned each county should have their own power plant and off the national grid. Except for Georgia! Much more secure and efficient in my opinion. Even the internet should be put on power lines for more than one reason. Speed being the main reason.
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