Hey Jonny,
yes you can add hundreds of coils if you want, the Lenz effect only hits when the circuit is closed which is totally avoided here. The limitation with our single magnet setup is just the space around the magnet.
I tried it with 3 coils that i squeezed close to the magnet
On a wheel-based multi-magnet Bedini you could add dozens of coils and use this charging method.
Or with the satellite approach of yours, since also the satellites wont stall.
I will test it with supercaps and with a positive earth ground in addition.
Also i will make a new main coil applying my new theories about coil improvement and try and different coil energizing circuit.

Hi Xenomorph,

Greets JB

Hi JonnDavro, No thnx

i was supprised to how stable the sphere was, but it dropped my voltage about 0.8v, while using sunnflower oil (not much only make the sphere soak a moment in sunflower oil, and i gain about 0.5/0.8v)

for all i know, on 2 avg batteries my coil draws about 4/5mah/ 2.6/2.57v
(with my rechargeables now its swinging between 2.57 and 2.58 after 3/4 hours using 2e circuit - but not connecting minus back to source battery. using 1 wire from receiving coil to trigger battery charging transistor)
my lowest was 2mah, but i need to start the sphere whith a spinning magnet.

the coils i used/made is from conrad (and they lenght is not much)
i bought 3 coils unwinded 1 to use a main coil, then used 105mtr of 0.20mm kopper wire for sending coil, and 0.15mm 105mtr for the receiving coil

during a small test bringing the tube down made lower voltage
bringing up more made the sphere go faster, and more power
untill to high makes it stall/stop

im trying to make a round tiny ball with coil around it and placing the sphere inside of it to see what happens

i have some rechargeable batteries from some rc gear, 7.5v 300mah
i will test it next time again, and see what i get, but im trying to put in as less as i can
(it almost looks like that when lighting a led (they use 20mah right, or 1.8v to light right ?)), that i could make the circuit selfrun,only by selfstarting it with a magnet, cause my charge in the caps load up fast in a way that it could be enough to selfrun without batteries (but that i must still test)


Greets JB

@JohnnBlade:

I might have been confused by your unconventional way of drawing the circuit (No offense, why not to draw it like that? , f*** conventions hehe)
It is hard for me to rotate your circuit by 90 degrees in my mind.
The thing that i have meant is that i am quite sure that your cap charge will simply short, because you are actually connecting the caps positive with the batteries negative by opening the transistor (the current flows from collector to emitter and then to ground [negative], that´s the where the technical current gets attracted to. And the battery´s negative is the lowest potential in the circuit). I don´t think your positive of the battery sees much of that.





The green graph is the current through the resistor which is high
and the blue graph is the current through the diode into the battery (nanoampere or close to zero).
But who knows if there is a radiant component making it trough somehow
anyway. The simulator to my knowledge doesnt take radiant energy into account.
Just from the cheer circuit analysis, no current is going through the diode into the battery.

That`s why people use optocouplers because you actually don´t need to connect the negative to the kathode of the diode (emitterdiode in transistor) to create the 0.6 forward voltage, instead a galvanically separated circuit can control the coupler.
An example of that here : Optocoupler discharge circuit

Why are you actually using a 2nd transistor at all, to minimize lenz drag or because you wanna pulse the charge?
But hey its late and i am tired, sorry if i cant think correctly anymore and make a thought mistake here. Just trying to constructively assist you in making your circuit work as you intend it.

Regards

EDIT:
One more thing, i was really wondering what that cap at the bridge would do and this is the results of a quick simulation. Turns out to act like a voltage doubler, that´s why you reached higher voltages, but keep in mind that the energy stays the same the charge current into the caps will half that way.

PICS:





Or bigger in attachment

Attached Images

	JB_Big.jpg (279.0 KB, 4 views)
	JB_Big1.jpg (298.4 KB, 3 views)
	JB_Big2.jpg (158.9 KB, 3 views)

@Bill and Jonnydavro:
I have tried charging a supercap (2.3 Volt, 22 Farad) overnight with the one wire method and it did not store any significant amount of charge unfortunately.
It reads 0.003 Volt now. So maybe the radiant spikes cant get through due to the low voltage rating.
I have tried now to use the cap i have used before and dump that via 2 diiodes into the supercap but that lowered the voltage to 0.001.
Bill, you have used supercaps before with your EB. What would you suggest to do to get a supercap to fill up that way?
I am considering maybe trying a 555 timer timed discharge thing now from the one cap into the other at maybe 3 Volts.

@Xenomorph, Thnx Wow you did allot of details work
nice tests that you have done. i will get more info on this Optocoupler discharge circuit and i need to find out more what this Lenz FX is

i added the 2e cap to stable the peaks more.

It is hard for me to rotate your circuit by 90 degrees in my mind.
you can turn the image 90deg in windows preview, or any image viewer

yesterday my batteries where measuring 2.57v, after like 3 or 4 hours it started to swing up showing more 2.58 then 2.57, and now this afternoon
it only reads a stable 2.58v using my new circuit

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...d=124644845 9


i did see that when i remove the cap going to the minus of the battery the voltage only showed like 0.001 or 0.003v but i can light up leds, when i add the cap i get like 1,5v on my meter

im thinking of maybe connecting the joule thief to the 2e transistor
since that gives higher amps

Q: does a battery need amps or volts to charge, or both


Greets JB

The answer is both. Since you are converting to current with your bridge and the caps. If you hot charge it (with current) then the standard is to have the charging part (cap or charger) at 2 Volts above the battery voltage to have a potential difference that let´s the current flow, current should be higher than let´s say 50 mA (depends on the size of the battery).

Radiant charging is to a higher part dependent on the voltage spikes that hit the battery plates.

But for instance in what Gadgetmall is doing, there seems to be not much current involved. His capacitors read 0.9 Volt, much lower than the battery voltage. Enough to open the diode, but it suspect it is mainly potential charge that goes through it to the battery. I am trying to understand this myself and may be wrong with this assumption.

There is many threads here in the forums that can explain that better than me. Just search for "Bedini Cap charging".

In your current circuit the transistor will unfortunately never open because the emitter potential is always higher than the base potential. You would need a pnp-transistor to get it to work with your current connections to the transistor.

Regards,
Xenomorph

Hi Xenomorph, thnx

when i tested the 2e transistor, without connecting anything to the base
i got no reading on my meter, but when i hooked up 1 wire from the receiving coil, i got a reading of 1.5v. before the 2e transistor the voltage is about 3.3v so its like half is being passed through

or is something else happening ?



Greets JB

Can we agree on naming the components like i suggest in the attachment?
It is unambiguous that way.
Then what you mean would be :

So you connected one wire of L3 to the base of T2 ?
Which voltage of about 3.3 v are you talking about (where was that measured) ?

The problematic thing of transistor usage of T2 is that you are hooking the positive potential of the battery to the emitter.
As you can see with T1 the negative potential is at the emitter.
So your one wire needs to reach a ~0.6 Volt higher potential than the battery´s positive potential to open the transistor, and maybe that happens here, but if that fires at exactly the point of time when you want it to, you know that better.

One thing is clear, that if you DO get a voltage onto C4 it must come from C3 and C2, because D2 prevents the battery to charge C4.

It remains highly interesting if you manage to get a charge onto the battery that way.
For the time T2 is open you will have a Lenz drag, but maybe the short transistor cycle makes it hardly noticable which would be a good thing

I have had good experiences with timed discharges off pickup coils to minimize the drag that way.
Good luck,
Xenomorph

Attached Images

JBCircuit_Markers.jpg (130.9 KB, 15 views)

thnx

Greets JB

Xenomorph--- I really like your idea of hanging the rotor rather than letting it run around on a plate. I worked more with the idea and found out a couple of things. First I found out that you can put a thin piece of plastic as a bearing surface between the screw tip and the suspension magnet. I just crazy glued a small disk onto the little neo and put a little lubricant on it. I think that maybe a thin piece of brass would work also. The second thing that I found out was that I can use a soild core coil easier with this method. I made an adjustable suspension arm to hold the magnet rotor far enough away from the coil and it worked great. I get better RPMs and less amp draw using this method.

Here is the video of it----

YouTube - Lidmotor TOP CHARGER with new top

Lidmotor

Great work LidMotor,

With my hanging disk rotor i placed a donut magnet underneath it
(so u could place 1 under your coil to stabilize the your rotor)
if it doesnt affect your magnetic force

Greets JB

@Lidmotor: You have put a lot of love into perfectionizing the suspension with the plastic/wood and the adjustable arm

It really seems to be the best method of maximizing RPM without levitating it which at the current point is not even guaranteed to yield any output due to probable magnetic axis alignment conflicts.

@JohnnBlade:
Okay i misunderstood which coil you meant.
Well that surprises me, L1 will then have to have a peak of battery voltage + 0.4 Volt minimum when it swings in the positive region.
I have never measured anything higher than 1 Volt in the primary coil. So how many thousands of turns do you have on the primary coil?

power? Against which potential did you measure these points? Against the ground (battery negative) ? Voltage is measured between two points, i am not sure which is the second point here, since a transistor has 3 connections.

The only thing that drives the transistor is the base current WHEN the condition is met that the base emitter diode is conducting which happens at around 0.4-0.6 Volts. Since we are dealing with fast voltage fluctuations you would need a oscilloscope to measure the base-emitter peak voltages.

What is your battery voltage? 1.5 V ?

@All: I have a charge rate of 0.001 Volt per hour onto the supercap with a 555 timer. So my conclusion is that the charge is fluffy (which is logical if you think about it, as it is mainly potential) and a better method to convert that to stronger charge current must be found. I have no idea how to do that at this point. Basically it is the same demoralizing result that i had previously with getting a usable charge off pickup-coils.
Maybe Bodkins and others find a way to make it usable ...
I will try to experiment with a positive ground as well.

Video: YouTube - 555 Dump 2

Xenomorph@ I have not had the time to charge the little 5v1f battery/cap to 5 volts and see what the load runs like., I got it to 1.3v before i had to go to work and i didnt have a load for it to try it out.
the problem I think you are having is that the cap dump need to be like a switch real fast and just over the battery voltage
Lidmotor@I remember you doing some work on dumping caps any advice?

the thing is Im charging multi caps from one wire and if the dumping is addressed we are on a winner.

Hi All,

@Xenomorph:
Well that surprises me, L1 will then have to have a peak of battery voltage + 0.4 Volt minimum when it swings in the positive region.
I have never measured anything higher than 1 Volt in the primary coil. So how many thousands of turns do you have on the primary coil?

i measured this by hooking the minus of the meter to the minus of the battery, and the plus from the end of L1 and in steps till i reached the base of T2

i used 105mtr of 0.20mm kopper wire for L2, and 0.15mm 105mtr for L1 from Conrad
- i did not count how many turns but i think 1 turn is about 8/9cm (damn, i just calculated, and if im not wrong thats about 1312,5 turns - i think im wrong ?)


from minus of batt1 to the beginning of R1 - 11.2mv
from minus of batt1 to the beginning of R2 - 11.2mv
from minus of batt1 to the base of T2 i get - 1.77v moving up and down till 1.83v

when i measure from the (-) pole on the Bridge1 (with the minus from my meter) to the collector leg of T2 i measured 2.9v stable (inc solar)

and from - pole on bridge1 to the beginning of D2 i measured 2.89v 2.9v
and when i stop my sphere/rotor, the voltages drops all the way to 0v

since yesterday my battery has not gone below 2.57v
i saw it wanting to go up to 2.58 but i gues after changing some things it went down to a stable 2.57 - its 2 x AA rechargeable batteries 2500mah each at 1.2v

when i used normal batteries i saw the volts drop allot faster, and that is without charging and same was also for my rechargeable batteries

now im also using solar to fill the caps, and hopefully boost some amps
and now im waiting sun to go down, so i can see what effect that has

the circuit diagram i added is what im running now
and its all just a rough test, of the way i would think it maybe could work

i will keep on testing

Greets JB

Hi All,

my sphere is still running, on same batteries now almost 2 days.
twice it stopped, but that is cause of the friction, scraping small particals of my sphere, and then the small oil could make it stop, whereby i have to clean the tube (greyish oily substance) and then start the sphere again.

mostly during night i have 2.57v, then late at night 2.56v
and now this afternoon my batteries are 2.58v

from the coil L3 and solar i have collected 4.3v in caps
that kinda for now looks like its charging my batteries

im using my 2e charging circuit, but i have some new ideas that i can test by using an opto-isolator

Greets JB

@JohnnBlade:
Good to see you doing this experiment!
The important question is what is your current draw of the battery?

EDIT: Ah you are not trying a solitary self-runner, you have added a solar panel ?

Hi Xenomorph,

the current draw is about 4 ma, at 2.57v, and i have already added the solar panel.

im now placing my circuit on a nice kitching cutting board, so i can clean things up, cause i think with all these crocodile clips, the voltage, amps are being used more

and how are you doing ?

Greets JB

@JohnnBlade:

It is self-running at 4mA? But well the solar panel is feeding 90% of the current into the battery-backpath.
However it is great to have a self-running device using various technologies even solar.

I am in the process of making a new coil which will produce a higher induced voltage on the secondary winding due to a 6 times higher turn-count and half the diameter of my current coil.
I believe the key factor of this circuit is the main coil after all.
The thinner wire diameter will also allow me to run the circuit at a lower amp-draw i believe. So i am looking forward to experimenting with the new
coil.

I have tried levitated satellite spheres using pyrolytic graphite but the rotation speed is not outperforming unlevitated efforts PLUS the lifting magnet interferes with the main magnet and that is sooo undesirable that i have come to the conclusion that i wont go deeper into this in regards to the one magnet motor application. The magnetic axis alingment is also highly suboptimal for picking the energy up with coils in my opinion.

Regards,
Xenomorph

Hi All,


i have not been able to make any vids yet cause im still using the 2 batteries from my cam for my Bedini


im wundering how JonnDavro, and Lidmotor are doing

Greets JB

Hi.I have been thinking about the dead spot on the coils and i thought that the suspended rotor idea could be adapted to negate the dead spot.
I have done a few tests and this is what i came up with.It is a twin magnet rotor with both north poles facing in the same direction.The magnets are mounted on a shaft so as to align with the coil windings and miss the centre and it seems to work quite well and is very stable.The speed is fast and amp draw low and i can run satellites at a greater distance than with the single magnet.
Another interesting thing was that when the rotor is going fast and i move it towards the coil,the amp draw goes negative for a couple of seconds.You can see this on the vid and i have taken a pic of this which i enclose.
I know this rotor is using two magnets but it is somthing else to try.
@jonnyblade.Hi.I am still beavering away JB and following all the great stuff that you and the rest of the guys are sharing with us.
On a side note,i use a program called circuit maker student edition for circuit design.It is free and very easy to use so you might want to give that a try. Regards jonny

YouTube - One magnet Bedini motor with twin magnet rotor.
Imageshack - twinmagnetrotor - Uploaded by jonnydavro
Imageshack - negativeampdraw1 - Uploaded by jonnydavro

Hi All,

@JonnDavro: thnx for the advice, ill will try that software out


today all i got my new volt record, input about 2.6v output 31v
its my new joulethief doing that and hooking up in a weird way not like normal that boosted my voltage about 10x

see the vid here, i think youtube is still making the vid quality better
so wait a little so you can see it better

YouTube - One magnet No Bearing Bedini motor - 2.6v in - 31v out - JB

Greets JB

Hey Jonny,

Thanks for noting my earlier design mods with a suspended top way back in the posts. My later experiments showed great promise with a magnetic constriction of the rotor to hold it in place over the coil. Great stuff with the twin magnet design rotor, I had been thinking about this type of design myself and I think you are on to something there. How many more neos can you stack up to before inertia gets the better of the system? It seems logical that more neos in a stack will power more satellites for greater power generation.

My latest idea along these lines is in the attached pic. and I hope someone has a chance to try it Basically if you sharpen the core of your coil, the neo sphere will attract to the point and be held in place. My experiments suggest that the point of the core will need to be offset all the way to the side of the coil core for optimum performance due to the dead spot.

I had the best luck starting the sphere spinning by twirling it inside a plastic pipe about 3" diameter by 1" high located just off center of the coil and when the sphere spins up guide it over the metal core until it links up magnetically then you can remove the plastic guide and start experimenting.

I hope someone tries this out as I had very good results with my initial tests but I have had to pack up my gear and can't continue experimenting just now but great fun following your experiments...

Attached Images

point coil.JPG (20.9 KB, 25 views)

Hi.I decided to extend the twin magnet rotor and add a third magnet at one end to see if i could extend the magnetic field by interlocking the fields off the top and bottom magnets and i tested the field with an orbiting satellite as it is quite good at showing the extent off the field and the satellite would spin all the way from the bottom magnets to a height above the top magnet.Here is a pic of the rotor and a vid off the test.Regards jonny
Imageshack - extendedrotor - Uploaded by jonnydavro

YouTube - One magnet Bedini Motor Extended magnetic field test.

Hi All,

@JonnDavro: Great work again and again, what You showed us in a way is
that our projects can match eachother, cause your rotor makes sphere's turn from a bigger distance now, and im working on getting the most from these sphere's (1 sofare for me) so how much could we produce from all when its all hooked up together, i would like to see what comes out of that since im only using a small tube so space is saved

i will try to make a new circuit drawing tomorrow, on how i get that 40.1v (i already added it as an attachment)
i know its my new joule thief, and hooking it up in another way then a normal joule thief, maybe a Bedini JB Joule thief :P

--
when i would run on normal batteries, without my "charging circuit" my sphere would stop/stall within an hour or even minutes.

now that i have cleaned up my wires, and using the "recharge circuit" again without solar. my sphere has now being going non stop for 4 hours
and batteries (not recharable) are still hanging in there without my sphere stalling

i have seen some moments whereby my sphere will speed up very fast and stop and when i measure those moments my batteries are higher then normal (2.6 to 2.62v), and i think my sphere is climbing up the tube like in Davro's vids. i used 1 drop of ferrofluid and wiping the sphere twice to make it run again.
then it was like the sphere was almost totally silent. but not much current, but i have to test that again. since im using my new joule thief circuit hooked up the wrong way
--

for me personal i can say that since i started with adaptor, i wanted it so bad to run on batteries, and getting more then 0.03v like in 1 of my1e vids ( YouTube - One magnet no bearing bedini with stator magnet for turning left or right and speedcontrol 2 - JB ) - im happy
now looking back and seen how fare we all are getting

everybody keep up your good work

my latest vid YouTube - One magnet No Bearing Bedini motor - 2.6v in - 31v out - JB

Greets JB


Extra: i have added a drawing of my 40.1v circuit and charging, but the charging has not been proven enough for me, but sofare my motor is still running
on normal batteries that where sopposed to be dead

Extra Question: should i be using a Li-Po battery since the get charged by voltage and normal batts by current or am i wrong ?
if so i want to use the li-po batt from the tiny rc helicopter (Pico Z)

@Jonnydavro-Any signs of overunity have to treated with closer scrutiny, and not just passed over casually. I have been predicting just such an effect from the outset. This test result may be quantum leap in nature. Attention has to drawn to the importance of your discovery. Very high praise for a good solid achievement! This kind of break through should really make world wide newspaper headlines.

Hi.thanks for that Synchro and i am looking into this and JB you are right.Its just a big jigsaw and everyone's got a piece.
Ok i have done a few more tests on the negative amp draw i saw with the twin magnet rotor yesterday and i made another rotor,this time with just the one magnet to see if this was down to the extra magnet and it goes negative with just one magnet as well so maybe Xenomorph can see if he can see this with his setup.I also placed a diode and an led in reverse on the input side and the led lights and the battery voltage climbs when it goes negative so the effect is real.
What i noticed is you need a good transistor which switches off when the magnet is moved away from the coil and i have improoved my technique in getting it to go negative.What i find best is to get the rotor up to speed and drop it down the front off the coil vertically.My rotor will spin from the coil when it is on its side so it is quite easy to do.There is a noticeable lenz effect and the magnet is deflected ,the rotor slows and then the amp draw goes positive and the rotor speeds up.
I am seeing negative readings of 30mA so like synchro says i think it needs further study.
I am wondering if the rotor maintained a constant speed or was heavier,the negative period may last a lot longer.What do you guys think?Anyone any idea why it is doing this?Regards jonny

@El tigre----I went back in the thread and it was you who first did the suspended rotor idea. I'm sorry that I didn't mention you in my videos. Xenomorph replicated it and I didn't remember that you had originally come up with the idea. Basically of all the designs so far this one works the best for me. It is a stable way to run the circuit with very little friction.

@JonnyD---Your negative amp effect I believe is the circuit running basically in reverse using the kenetic energy stored up in the spinning mass of the rotor. Check out the videos of DadHav on youtube. He builds beautiful Bedini motors and shows how when you manually spin them they act like generators. I think that is what is happening here.

@ JohnnB---Wow you have come along way in a short time. Great fast work on this project. I don't know where we are heading with this but everyone seems to be having fun along the way.

@Xenomorph----I have been working on an electronic levitation circuit but so far haven't had much luck and what I am seeing I don't like. I agree with you that the full levitation approach may be the wrong way to go with this project. I'm still working on it but the one point contact suspension idea seems to be a much better approach. I have been running the setup from my last video day and night 24/7 to see how it holds up so far it looks good. Stable, reliable, and quiet.

@Bodkins----The cap pulser circuit you are asking about is way back in the Imhotep Radiant Oscillator thread when I was building the "Lunch Box". Ren I think posted it. It is a pure John Bedini design that basically uses a 555 timer and a optoisolator to pulse the cap charge. The problem is that the side
circuit draws 30 millamps so your setup has to be big enough and efficient enough to justify the power drain.

@ All---My work with this crazy electronic levitator has me learning about Hall effect sensors and the 714 Op Amp. Here is the link to the project that I'm working on--
http://www.cyberpcb.com/movie/levitroneng.pdf


Lidmotor

I had the idea of puting a magnet in the center of the air coil and having it fixed at two points with two sphere neo magnets kinda like the one bearing kind and have it suspended in the coil should increase the voltage

my apologies if this has already been posted in this thread,

i came across this today while browsing...

YouTube - ECONOMY MAGNETIC MOTORS / Equilibrius Grid / Jon DePew

seems like you guys arent the only ones working with rotating magnets ( Lidmotor, they look an aweful lot like your saturn thingy )

judging by the other videos on the persons channel , seems to be interested in Ed leedskalnin... interesting.