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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #571  
Old 05-18-2009, 07:01 AM
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Originally Posted by CloudSeeder View Post
I want to hear something out of you besides what I've heard so far. Tell me: When the people in control launch their Moon missions from all the new space agencies -that recently started into service in many tiny countries NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EXPECT TO HAVE A "SPACE PROGRAM"- and they all catch a shuttle to the Moon and direct a powerful non-atmosphere-impeded laser down here at the Pacific rim ocean floor volcanoes to pulse-heat the Earth to explode, what'cha gonna do then mouth?

Once the Moon doesn't have Earth Gravity locking it in orbit they can propel their privileged Payees over to Mars. You have a helluva lot more stuff on your plate to think about than me.

We are all being set up. The reason I came here to show all my engine systems for FREE was to prove to my satisfaction my suspicions were correct.

Enjoy the flavored hemlock with the cutesy cellphone music.
First you insult me, and then you expect me to answer that "question" before the question mark? I'm not even sure those words even form a coherent sentence, let alone a proper nn-retoric open question.
Would stupid me again failing to understand you once again be a boost of your confidence?

Under-estimating, let alone insulting, the person across the table or forum is not going to give you the maximum desired effect each time. Unless you only thrive on negativity.
You seem to want to attract big attention for your next success (or failure), to be remembered perhaps like Einstein and Da Vinci have been. After all, you could have silently completed your gravity wheel, sent it to a trusted colleague, and placed the plans for it online. No fuzz, no drama, just giving the world their free energy.
The way you're behaving here does little good towards accomplishing that, or anything good for that matter. Is alienation an addiction? I've alienated myself online before, but you're on a level of your own here.
I'm normally quite compassionate for the (mentally of psysically) disabled, but you're not making it easy here. My simple open question to you, risking that it's so simple that your genious will fail to see the superficial meaning to it: Why the drama?
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  #572  
Old 05-18-2009, 09:25 AM
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Let's all ignore inflammatory and spamming posts. It would be for the best.
Maybe the best would be, someone remove all Posts from Cloudseeker in this Thread here.

Its only his onemanshow, and it start to be offend, and has nothing to do anymore with this Thread.

Cloudseeker let me guess, if I understand what you say.
You say "Please someone remove me from this Board,
because noone post at my Thread anymore, and now i go mess around at another Thread to get Attention" ??
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  #573  
Old 05-18-2009, 09:46 PM
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Please stay on topic

To all,

What makes Energetic Forum so great is that the contributions here are usually on topic and constructive.

This thread is ONLY for the discussion of a mechanical engine as described in the beginning of this thread.

If you have posted a message in the last several days in this thread that is not in obvious alignment with the topic or spirit of this thread, please delete it and keep on topic. I'll delete this message once that is done.

The best way to prevent a thread from drifting off topic is to ignore and not reply to any post that could be inflammatory or provocative. Fortunately, this kind of thing doesn't happen very often here.

There is a way to prevent from seeing any particular users posts that may be offensive and that is to use the buddy/ignore list. This link may work for all registered members:
http://www.energeticforum.com/profile.php?do=editlist

If not, simply go to your User CP (control panel) and look in the left column towards the bottom, there is a a buddy/ignore option.

I hope this helps.
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  #574  
Old 05-18-2009, 11:57 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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Is anyone out there building or pursuing the motor idea Peter started. If so, how about an update on your progress. I am currently too busy to start one, but would like to know of any progress anyone has on it. Theory, feasibility, factual operation, etc. Good Luck. Stealth
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  #575  
Old 05-19-2009, 12:35 AM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
Is anyone out there building or pursuing the motor idea Peter started. If so, how about an update on your progress. I am currently too busy to start one, but would like to know of any progress anyone has on it. Theory, feasibility, factual operation, etc. Good Luck. Stealth
I got as far as determining that a fairly sensitive breaking system is required to slow the wheel enough so that the pendulums can return far enough to be caught. The problem is the fulcrum moving in such a manner that the weight doesn't return nearly far enough to be recovered. When the fulcrum moves too much, either laterally or vertically, it quickly destroys the pendulum's arc. The wheel would have to be moving fairly slowly so that little energy is bled from the pendulum.
I ran out of patience to pursue it any further. While it would have been fun to get it working, it ultimately wouldn't be practical for energy generation.
However, I'm using some of the same principals in my water turbine so we'll see how it pans out.

Ted
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  #576  
Old 05-19-2009, 01:04 AM
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Update

Ok, so here's an update..

YouTube - thrown pendulum weight latched experiment build update

What I didn't mention in the video is that preliminary tests seem to indicate that when the anti-clockwise rotating pendulum impacts at 12o'clock, the anti-clockwise torque seems to ignore the vertical lever, and throws the pendulum at 6o'clock backwards, pulling the lever with it... Then when the top pendulum releases, the bottom one is 'weightless' at the apex of it's swing. Then while the top pendulum is latched in the outer position, the bottom pendulum is moving towards the lever's fulcrum.

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  #577  
Old 05-19-2009, 10:46 AM
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More changes of plan and intended improvements

YouTube - more updates and intended improvements

Comments welcomed.

Love and light
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  #578  
Old 05-19-2009, 12:55 PM
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One last demo before bed

YouTube - what I hope happens once the glue dries and the clamps come off
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  #579  
Old 05-19-2009, 01:19 PM
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Inquorate's latest video

Hi Inquorate
I like it. I think you are homing in. It's great to see you not giving up.
I always liked the particular technical approach you are now following again; see my old posting
http://www.energeticforum.com/50870-post273.html

Please consider that the pendulum will have a natural speed of swing, after going over the bump (=little wheel at 12 o' clock). To me it seems as if you will have to slow down the wheel to a relatively low speed so that the pendulum can fly out and get latched in the ratchet-latch. While the pendulum flies out, the wheel should turn relatively slowly, so that you can harvest the overbalance/overweight after the out-swing of the pendulum.
If the wheel turns too far (=too fast) during the pendulum swing, the pendulum will have not enough time to fly far out.

Far out.
High hopes again, this side.

edit: PS suggested reading
this posting at overunity.com
and
this posting at overunity.com

In my opinion these postings by i_ron describe the effect you are trying to utilize - you described the same in your early videos (=using the increased weight of the pendulum to do work - increased weight which is available in the pivot point during the down-swing).
And more additions:
The fact that the pendulum is lighter during its upswing would make it imperative that the pendulum's swing out/up should start while its pivot is still on the left side of the wheel - in a CW-turning wheel - in order to make this side "lighter".
That would imply that the bump should not be at 12 o' clock but before. But I must think more about that.
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  #580  
Old 05-19-2009, 10:00 PM
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Marxist's reply

Thankyou for your reply. I like your conclusion that the eccentric wheel should be before 12o'clock, because it needs to be there for the pendulum to fall off it :-)

I'll take a look at your links on the train to work.

Thanks again
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  #581  
Old 05-19-2009, 10:40 PM
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Couldn't resist having a play before work:

The pendulum swings out and overshoots the latch, then swings back in again and impacts on the latch: clockwise torque.

Then, because the pendulums are too long now there is an unwanted impact at 6o'clock: anti-clockwise torque

Which puts the pendulum into a swing, so that at the eccentric wheel there is another large impact: anti-clockwise torque.

At both of those unwanted events, the wheel visibly slows. But speeds up again at the wanted events..

when I get home, I'll shorten the length of flanges on the ends of the pendulums, and extend them to the left side more.

Also, I'll make the latches into the ratchets they should be.

All trial and error.

Ps it made 3 complete revolutions as is

@ marxist

"Please consider that the pendulum will have a natural speed of swing, after going over the bump (=little wheel at 12 o' clock). To me it seems as if you will have to slow down the wheel to a relatively low speed so that the pendulum can fly out and get latched in the ratchet-latch. While the pendulum flies out, the wheel should turn relatively slowly, so that you can harvest the overbalance/overweight after the out-swing of the pendulum.
If the wheel turns too far (=too fast) during the pendulum swing, the pendulum will have not enough time to fly far out."

the wheel turning faster will have more centrifugal force, and i was thinking this would overcome what you are talking about by virtue of swinging the pendulum out faster. experiment will determine the end result.

i'm a little scared that it will work


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  #582  
Old 05-19-2009, 11:21 PM
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Thanks for the update. I think you may be close to solving your problems. If you put a counterweight on the arm,would it slow down the pendulum swing enough, without hurting your momentum too much? It may help or it may be counter productive. Just a thought. I've read about Besslers gravity wheel, but like everyone else, no one knows how it worked. It may have been fairly simple, but my guess is it was a complicated piece of engineering. Good Luck. Stealth
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  #583  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:48 AM
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counterweight

@ stealth - you mean a weight on top of the pendulum as well as below it?

// also, i need to find a weight from a bench press exercise thing. that'll go on the axle as a flywheel to maximise inertia. at the moment the lever weighs less than each pendulum.

tnx for the feedback
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  #584  
Old 05-20-2009, 03:43 AM
marxist marxist is offline
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Hi Inquorate,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
......the wheel turning faster will have more centrifugal force, and i was thinking this would overcome what you are talking about by virtue of swinging the pendulum out faster.
I understand and also don't know which of the two effects will be more important and outweigh the other.
Maybe there is a critical speed of the wheel below which ... (don't know)
and above which centrifugal force will take over, as you hope.
I don't know.
It's as you say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
...experiment will determine the end result.
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  #585  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:06 PM
Stealth Stealth is offline
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Inquorate,Yes, that was just a suggestion, but it may slow down the wheel just enough to make it work. I hope it does. It should also cause it to rock back and forth more affecting the momentum. Good Luck. Stealth
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Last edited by Stealth; 05-20-2009 at 10:13 PM.
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  #586  
Old 05-22-2009, 05:42 AM
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My kingdom for a horse..

for want of a nail, a horse shoe. For the want of a horse shoe, a horse. For the want of a horse, a knight. For want of a knight, the line. For want of the line, the battle. For want of the battle, the war...

I've run out of quick-dry glue; taking hours now to try each adjustment..

The ratchets slowed the pendulum down; after catching the pendulum each ratchets tooth holds the pendulum IN for a brief moment. It's more effective to have the pendulum swing out past the latch and come back for a single impact.

I'm now glueing a sideways - displaced latch, as vertical displaced latch on the other side of the arm had too much give; I sawed off the extra teeth but the catch was too soft and the impact nowhere near as effective.

I also have a little mechanism to damp the pendulum's swing before it impacts the eccentric wheel, as that impact creates counter-torque.

And I've shortened the pendulum where it traverses the eccentric wheel, to reduce the 'cost' of holding back the pendulum..

From here it's a balancing act.. I still have to find an effective flywheel weight for the lever.

Love and light
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  #587  
Old 05-23-2009, 12:58 AM
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Progress?

My current design is wasting energy at 11o'clock and is costing energy at 12o'clock. If I could get the wasted energy to do work at 12o'clock, I have little doubt that this will work.

Suggestions?

Anyone want to replicate?

YouTube - eccentric wheel over - impact

Love and light
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  #588  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:29 AM
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Falling Hammers an upside down Power Pendulum?

I put two of my smack plate upgraded designs online for anyone wants to try their hand. It's a free ball for anyone not presently working on their own.

I've never been too big on pendulums but it occurred to me just now that a hammer falling forward is an upside down pendulum with a big head start. I believe you could fix it where a hammer would wait til passing 12 o'clock then drop forward with a right good force ~more than a swinging pendulum and yet still a pendulum~ swing through at the bottom of its radius and have enough remaining speed to reset back... which would also have it riding up the other side near the hub.

I think I'd call such a hammer a Power Pendulum. Three might would be enough.
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  #589  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:07 PM
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Tilt-A-Whirl Design adapted to Gravity Wheels?

Amusement parks and County Fairs and traveling circuses usually all have a fun ride called the Tilt-A-Whirl. The common design when I grew up was one that had a rolling platform, it went up and down around the center. I found if the one I was in entered the next drop at just the right position (now referred to as 12 o'clock) and then leaned my weight into it, by the time the car was pulled down into the the bottom (6 PM) the continuing pull of the motor would flip the car back up spinning it with a lot of RAW POWER. I found I could get those suckers to do a lot more than come back up.

For these Power Pendulums the same thing could happen if & when we get the design right... to engage that same WHIPPING FORCE. Take the ride design and turn it vertical would be a good start.

The hammer should not swing from the end of its handle. The handle needs to be a bit longer than usual, then drill it about 1/3 to 50% the way up and add a smaller counterweight to the handle end. The trick would be for the hammer to not swing from a stationary spot. It needs to be attached to a teardrop-shaped cam guide, a track.

A latch or catch would hold it in position as it passes 12 o'clock then tripped to release. When the head swings through you would think there wouldn't be enough force or speed remaining to bring it back up for the next Go, except that the downward speed of the wheel helps the wheel go faster so the dropping wheel is actually PULLING AWAY FROM THE HEAD AS THE HEAD RISES. If the weight of the head is not too heavy -a "sweet spot"- this will work provided the wheel weight is also kept reduced. It worked with the Tilt-A-Whirls.

The down-hanging extended hammer handle would be what hits the latch/bump/whatever as it passes 12 o'clock top dead center, being dragged across a bump to raise the hammer head up to clear the latch holding it.

I've made some really good advances on my own wheel and am going to work with it the next days and week see if I can't get it going, then I'll start drawing on this one. I haven't been on this thread for a while so I don't know if Michael Nunnerley is still here but if he is, designing a vertical cam-shaped track for the hammer to fall through its tear shape would be right up his alley.

I realize writing it down like this leaves a lot to be desired. I just wanted to throw a new hat in the ring for consideration so you all could have something different to mull over or maybe add to your own devices too. Soon as I get my own going should be this week I'll jump into this one.
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  #590  
Old 06-04-2009, 03:29 PM
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Muse: Tilt-A-Whirl Chaos
Science for kids. I almost understand it now.

Would you expect generators on the "seats" to produce more energy than it costs for the chain of seats to be propelled around the track?

In my country there are/used to be these offset platform to stand on. Crazy fast and scary. I always thought my mis-timed over-responded muscle correction for weight shift was speeding those up.
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  #591  
Old 06-04-2009, 03:57 PM
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Thousands of Ingenius Toymakers!

Excellent website find, Cloxxki. However, upon reading the page they say nothing about my trick of leaning hard into the far side of the seat to get it to go into a Power Spin. Instead, they present it as sitting in the seat "not knowing what will happen next". I was not that passive a child. I found a way to make it do what I wanted it to do.

My idea is this man, that for thousands of years at least 6,000 the sum total of the greatest minds of their time applied their every energy to designing TOYS FOR CHILDREN <> and when we copy ideas from those toys we get a hand up so we can clear this Gravity Wheel wall. Steve Martin cried out

HE HATES THE CANS and I'm crying out LOOK TO THE TOYS.
....
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  #592  
Old 06-04-2009, 08:26 PM
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Tilt-A-Whirl Chaos

Here's an excerpt from further down the page:

The only thing that a Tilt-A-Whirl operator can adjust is the speed at which the platforms travel around the track. When the platforms move at very low speeds, each car completes one backward turn as its platform goes over a hill. At high speeds, a car gets slammed to its platform's outer edge and stays in that position. In either case, the motion is predictable. It's only at speeds somewhere in between these extremes that a car's motion becomes complicated and unpredictable. So it's important for a Tilt-A-Whirl operator to make sure the ride runs at the proper speed, about 6.5 revolutions per minute.

All that is assuming the passengers in the seat remain seated. I saw that the car slamming to the opposite side and stopping would go much further if I leaned my weight into the side as it entered the spin. I'm sure others have done that.

If a ride operator can do it I reckon if we can't we'll have to find a place to hide.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:27 AM
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Just an idea

I hope this is on topic. I don't contribute to this thread because I'm not building anything relevant to this. But, there is one thing that has stuck out to me for a long time and I feel I just want to bring it up.

In my own viewpoint of what gravity is, it doesn't come straight down, it doesn't come down perpendicular to the ground. Therefore, a wheel that is perpendicular to the ground isn't taking advantage of the actual direction that the gravitational push is coming down to the surface.

This is what I mean.

From the North Pole looking down, the Earth is spinning counter clockwise so the sunlight hits east and moves west. The gravitational push is slightly ANGLED in my opinion.

So if you're hovering way up in the air over Eastern Washington state, the gravitational push is coming down at an angle towards the Western part of Washington. The angle would have to be calculated in some way but the POINT is that it doesn't come straight down.

Therefore, I think to take advantage of the strongest gravitational push, the wheel could be setup in two ways.

The flat face could be on the north and south side (obviously meaning align the wheel east west so the flat faces are north and south). Then the Gravity will push strongest on any weight.

Or if the wheel was aligned north and south so the flat faces are east and west...in this alignment, the top of the wheel should be tilted slightly towards the east past center of the wheel.

I doubt that anyone will see a difference doing this because the difference would be too small to measure on the scale we're dealing with in this thread, BUT, the POINT of the concept is something I haven't seen considered.

Of course this concept is ideal on the equator and of course would have to have slight variations in angle settings but just wanted to bring it up.

There are interesting gravitational concepts that are actually measurable on small scale. For example, not all objects fall at the same rate of speed. A solid iron ball and a solid aluminum ball do NOT fall at the same rate of speed. The solid iron ball falls faster. The non-ferrous aluminum sphere falls slower since it is repelling against the counter emf induced into it from the Earth's magnetic field. Sounds reasonable but actually proven in labs with precision measuring equipment.

Will something in the concept I mention make any difference, I have no idea but thought I would bring it up. Many of these wheels can just ALMOST to "over the top" but not quite and perhaps something like this being considered just might give the extra push.

I know it isn't all about gravity but also swinging motion, but if the gravitational push is a bit stronger then so should the swinging motion, the wheel should be too.
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  #594  
Old 06-07-2009, 01:34 PM
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Gravitational Direction

@Aaron: Yeah, I know you are correct. Some people sleep better with their feet to the north, and if you pee into a commode faced west the splatter out of the commode is much less than a commode faced the other direction, partly because the 1,000 mile per hour spin not just gravity. If the stream is going with the earth spin then less, something like that.

You're making an assumption that gravity is just gravitational lines of force that are indeed angled. Gravity is more than that <> it's the sum total of pressure reaching the earth's surface from the rest of the universe. So for all intents and everyone's purposes it is the great majority pretty much straight down.

You're an exceptional thinker to have noticed all that stuff.
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:09 PM
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Yes, actually a spiral would be the correct design to best capture gravity. I suppose that is why a vortex is so efficient. Nothing in nature has more destructive force than a hurricane, or tornado. It is simply a vortex of swirling wind. I have seen grass straws stuck into trees. Try to do that with any other type of force. Good Luck. Stealth
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  #596  
Old 06-07-2009, 05:10 PM
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Fighting an opponent who has no right to remain standing.

In a way, all Gravity Wheels are a vortex, but like Redeagle said they are rather low rpm... certainly not on the level of a tornado. But, a home doesn't need a tornado-level engine to turn a generator either.

If all circuit boxes were designed to switch major appliances on and off to prevent doubling of power drains, plus the water heater fixed to use 30-50% less electricity and in fact be their own pre-heater, Gravity Wheels need only ballpark supply 50% of what homes now use.

We're fighting an opponent who has no right to remain standing.
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:50 PM
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You are absolutely correct. We only need less than half of the electricity we use in our daily lives. We waste far too much enegy doing simple things such as lighting, heating, and water heating. I have cut back, but I am no where near where I want to be shortly. Good Luck. Stealth
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:56 PM
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Psychologically speaking, if Obama doubled the tax rate 200% across the board on everybody then offered 50% off if they saved X amount of electrical usage you'd see people scrambling tomorrow's eggs on the sidewalk.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:11 PM
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aiming to have 3 wheels running by summer's end

Perhaps a system like this added to some other systems would
assist them past their rebound effects or flat spots:



I'm aiming to have 3 wheels running by summer's end, and if I do I was hoping
I would have company not just me standing their taking all the tomatoes.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:28 PM
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Maybe some will throw onions, lettuce, bread and a cooked burger...
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