ok... well this is how I see the circuit working now... sorry for the poor animation.

bedinischematic.gif

At the start of the animation we see the current in the trigger coil being induced by the north of the magnet on the rotor as it starts moving away from the stator. This triggers the transistor and the radiant event occurs by creating the dipole between the positive and the negative of the primary battery.

This radiant event pushes the magnet away (thus converting the radiant into kinetic) and then the current from the primary battery kills the dipole (and contributes to propelling the magnet). the original magnet has now left the stator so there is an idle period then the next magnet comes in.

as this magnet approaches the stator (propelled by the energy from the last radiant event) it induces a current in the power coil that flows through the charging battery (thus charging it).

Because the battery is creating resistance in the circuit it slows down the approaching magnet as it's kinetic is then being converted to chemical within the battery.

I think that because the magnet has slowed down more current is required from the primary battery to help propel the magnet again (though the radiant is doing most of the work here).

When I removed the charging battery there was no resistance in the circuit so the current was free to flow through that point and didnt signifcantly decelerate the rotor so less current was required to keep it rotating.

at least that is my theory! I wish John would explain things better but I understand why he doesnt!

I'm not sure if this is what is actually happening but it is the only explanation I can think of right now! there certainly seems to be alot more to it like can the induced current really light a neon bulb?! More study is needed!

In fact this is probably just plain wrong and I've wasted your time! I'm sorry!

Hi,

Thanks for the animation, but I don't think that the induced voltage by the magnet is capable of charging the secondary battery unless the charging battery's voltage is lower than the induced voltage. It is the back-emf which Peter talks about and opposes the applied potential, and is always "less than" the applied potential, because otherwise the motor could not operate at all. As the speed of the motor increases the induced potential increases in the coil, thus the back-emf increases and also the current to the trigger coil increases too.

What is the H-wave? The h-wave's handle is the spike being absorbed by the charging battery and the rest of it is the induced voltage by the magnet, which if it were more than the voltage of the charging battery that one would be absorbed by it too.

Only in the case which the charging battery is less in voltage compared to the induced voltage it will get affected.

Thanks
Elias

what if the hole system did not charge on vacuum energy but charged from recycling the collapsed emf at 99.9 % cop and added energy of the coil acting as a generator all the voltage triggered in the coil has one place to go the charge batt the faster the energizer goes the more voltage/current will be generated, the voltage potential of the cemf in theory if 12 volts 150 ma turns to 200 v it could turn back again to the same v/c if it had no loss but you would get back more because run batt voltage is higher so the the charge batttery translates it a little lower voltage and higher current plus a bonus from the gen side and bedini said "you wana do it as fast as you can". the faster the more bonus you get


anywho im no skeptic im just making a theory i got no multimeter yet still waiting for them in the mail then once i got it im gonna run tests on my bedini and see what is goin on

Hey, what happened to Shamus ?

- Schpankme

Hello friends,

I am about to replicate an SSG with more multi-coils, but after winding one of my coils and testing to see how it works, I was so disappointed, because, the wheel hardly had any torque to it and ran at about 100-150 RPM, very slowly, and more worst of all, it drew about 300mA. Can anyone offer me any clue why this happens.

My coil has about 800 turns of 2*#28, 2*#21, 1* #19 wires.

I personally think that it maybe because of my stacked magnets which are too strong. But I am not sure, in this case I should build another rotor.

A picture of it is attached.

Thanks,

Attached Images

ssg2.JPG (113.9 KB, 73 views)

Hi elias,
I do not have any idea why your SSG behaves like this, but I must say, that I doubt that this is because of too strong magnets. When I double stacked my magnets, I noticed serious increase in torque. Are your bearings good? How long does the wheel spin by itself when you rotate it with your hand? Try to run the system on 24v on each side, this will increase the speed and thus decrease the current draw. What is your core material?

elias,

Why not just remove the second magnets from the stack and run it with single magnets, as a test? And I see you double stack them, one on top the other, rather than making the "scalar north" setup, one next to the other?

Also, have you considered using more than one coil, one for trigger/drive and the rest for the power, the way JB does it?

Hi,

Thanks for the input,
Jetijs, my wheel does not free wheel so much, but it is because of its small rotor, The bearings are fine.
I think that the impedance of my wire is low (about 1 ohm), because when I put two of it filers series, the RPM increased (about 300RPM), and the current draw dropped to about 175mA. I wonder if this is normal. Maybe it is wiser to use a larger wheel.

Amigo,
I am going to do exactly that, Ill' wind a separate coil for the trigger, thanks. My magnets are glued together, and cannot be removed unless I break them .


Thanks Again,

Nice looking set up!

are you sure all the strands are firing? you can test that by *breifly* shorting the base and collector for each strand to see if it repels the magnet. This will also let you know if all your transistors are working. If it doesn't repel the magnets then either the strand isn't connected or the transistor has fried.

and if it attracts the magnets then the coil is the wrong way up! lol... ive done that myself!

is the other coil in the photo hooked up to the circuit as well?

by the way, jetijs...

is more torque desirable? I also noticed more torque when double stcking the magnets but the rotor seems to go at the same speed as when they are single stacked... it doesnt accelerate as fast and takes more effort to start but the charge/discharge ratio seems to be improved by reducing the torque in the rotor. Havent done any side by side tests though... what do you think? Can the magnets be TOO weak even though they are strong enough to trigger the transistors?

Sephiroth,
in my case double stacking magnets increased not only the torque but also the speed. But I did not use s single coil setup, I had two trifilar coils and 5 transistor system. Maybe this is why I also gained speed by double stacking magnets.

lol I'm using a tri coil ssg (three bifilar coils)

tricoil.jpg

I'm guessing it would need enough torque to get it to the optimal speed but any more torque would be wasted energy no?

This has always puzzled me. Bedini says weaker magnets are best but HOW weak?! lol...

of course you are going to need enough torque to get the motor to it's optimal speed.

Amount of torque needed would probably be related to the amount of reistance in the bearings and air resistance...

My rotor has very little air resistance since the magnets are recessed... though if my magnets werent recessed I guess I would need a bit more torque to get it to the optimal speed.

Though here is another thought! If we use stronger magnets won't they be more attracted to the core and so more energy will be required to create a magnetic field stong enough to break that attraction and repel the magnets?

I have a feeling there must be an optimal balance. At the moment I am using 10mm x 20mm x 5mm magnets and they seems to work fine with a 1000 turn trigger coil (though it's a bugger to start up!).

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

How weak/strong should the magnets be?

Nice build
I believe that the reason John does not want us to use strong magnets is because the neo magnets are so strong, that they oversaturate the core material and that, of course, is bad. So in my opinion the magnet should be the strongest you can get as long it is not too strong to fully saturate the core. That is why we need a wider spacing between coils and magnets if we use neo magnets

Sephiroth,

I remember Bedini, mentioning the fact that by firing the coil, it actually attracts the scalar south between the magnets, so it is basically an attraction motor.

My setup is not complete yet, but I have planned to make it a tri coiler setup, like yours, but a little bigger.

Elias

Hi,

Has anyone got any useful info to share here about lubricating the bearings. My bearings seem to have a little friction and it may be because of the grease.

Elias

I heard lighter fluid is good...

Hello Sephiroth

The bearings had friction to it so it dissatisfied me a lot, so I bought new bearings, which tend to have less friction.
It seems that smaller bearings with smaller balls tend to have much less friction. I am about to build a mini SSG to test that.

Thanks for the input, I am going to get some lighter oil.

BTW, can you give us some info about how your SSG performs?(RPM, Charging Speed, Current draw, etc) It seems nice by the photo.

Elias

my single coil motor was working better than this one is though I put that down to the batteries.

Using two 7.2Ah batteries which were fine for the 1 coil motor which drew around 300mA but this one draws closer to an amp (about 950mA) so these batteries aren't good for this current draw.

The single coil motor lost .0257A (about 1/4 watt) when running on 300mA which the rotor should have been able generate so that appeared to be over unity.

Saving up for some Golf cart batteries though I really want more than 2 batteries. Very expensive.... about £40 each I think. I understand why this motor won't achieve over unity with just 2 batteries so definatly worth investing in more.

I'm just using it for experiments at the moment until I have bigger batteries. I found this motor has two sweet spots. I have no tach (hard to find a cheap laser tach in the uk) so can only estimate speed but one is at about 1000rpm and the other seems to be just under 3000rpm so I am comparing the two sweet spots to find which is most efficient at charging the batteries.

Also comparing single stack to double stack magnets and after that will compare how long the motor will run swapping the batteries compared to it running on just one battery with the 14007 diode going straight back to the positive of the primary (just for referance).

I'll upload the results when I have them. Though this motor isn't over unity with these batteries it should still give me and idea of the efficiency of different configurations which I can put to good use when I DO get my batteries

Nice job on the tri Sep For small bearings guys check out hobby shops that have RC planes/cars, they usually stack a heap of different sizes for wheels etc and they are all small and high speed. I got mine from a vcr head. They already have a shaft and housing for them too.

In regards to magnets here is my opinion. The wheel is basically a timing device no? You can harness it for mechanical output but it basically is there to switch the coil on and off. You want the switch to be as fast as possible, i.e. on suddenly and off suddenly. With a more powerful magnet the on time would be longer as its magnetic field passes the coil as opposed to a thin weaker magnet. Obviously the base of your transistor needs a minimum amount of current/voltage to trigger it into action, so there is a bare minimum. I have used a ferrite magnet 10mm cubed to trigger a coil and it worked quite well. I cant compare results as the coil was tiny, but charging rate seemed satisfactory.

This could also be the reasoning behind adjustments in the air gap giving different results in charging. Further away and the magnetic flux pattern of the passing magnet is only just touching the coil and only just triggering it too.

Just my musings, someone come and explain it otherwise if its wrong

ren - That is what I am thinking... i didn't notice any difference in the speed between double stack and single stack (and i'm using seriously small magnets compared to bike wheel motors!) but don't have a tach to confirm it.

of course we only care about the charge ratio! So I'm going to do a controlled test to see if it makes a difference.