Good work sep! Glad to see you are not just being spoon fed. My understanding is that it isnt as simple as matching a pot to the resistance of the relay.

"As the frequency of the pulsing rises the DC resistance remains constant, but the inductive reactance increases. This means the Total Ohms (impedance) of the coil when the motor is running will be a vector addition of the constant DC ohms (resistance) and the inductive reactance (impedance). The best thing about inductive reactance is that while it impedes current in direct relationship with frequency, it does not cause power loss due to heating. That is, there is no associated I^2*R losses with impedance, like there is with resistance."

Im not sure if Im correct but I think the relays coil gauge would be altering your circuit in peculiar ways. Keep testing!

I think it might be interesting to try some really small capacitors on the trigger leg too.

This is great Sephiroth!

Chokes play a big part in Stan Meyer's WFC circuits. It is supposed to be one of the big keys that that nobody has mastered. It is part of the "voltage intensifier circuit" (VIC). As you pulse through the chokes, you're able to get higher and higher voltage out the end of the chokes, which the magnetic field of the chokes limit the current. Meyer used bifilar chokes... both wires wound around same coil. One choke on the front side of the cell and one on the back side of the cell with the cell between them in series...connected Tesla pancake coil style.

With the chokes, you're right that it isn't about the resistance. Even in Meyer's chokes, resistance is over 10k ohms, pretty high and Meyer says it isn't resistance that limits the current, it is the magnetic field in the chokes.

Anyway, are you able to post scope shots with and without the choke on the trigger?

How many turns do you estimate are on the choke? Gauge? Core material? Diameter? etc...? Picture of the coil?

Keep going!

I wish I did have a scope aaron... I think I have a pretty good idea of what it would show but it would be good to confirm it...

this is the relay I am using:

Maplin > 6 and 12V 6A Miniature Relays

it is the 6 volt one. it says it is a "Schrack" RP420006

I had a spare so I took it apart to get some measurements. The coil is almost precisly 10mm diameter and 16mm tall and the core (appears to be steel) is 4mm diameter... i couldn't say how many turns there are or what guage the wire is but I would compare it to horse hair.

so do you think a choke might be benificial somewhere on the power side as well?

Who can say? I think if I was going to try it I would put it between the end of the coil and the collector first. With the diode off the end of it. Its an interesting approach thats for sure. I think you should study Tesla patent 568177. His unusual approach to powering this device has some clever insights into how chokes may be used. Use a cap on the secondary instead of the ozone plates.

You should build a stock sg (single coil) for your tests so you can finely tune the parameters and study its effects.

Aaron,

thanks for your reply, I was fairly sure you were the arron that posted the sony rel motor. what a great demo. will have themagnets glued together this week. this will give me a chance to test it. btw have you run this magnet config by JB?

Hi Stonewater,

I haven't talked to John about this magnet configuration. I haven't been out to his shop since right before Christmas time because I was busy with a house project and he usually closes this business through that time of the year to beginning of Jan. Half the time I'm out there, we don't even talk about the energy stuff...mostly about life and other stuff.

from one other modification that I will show soon.

Actually, I'll show 2 variations of the other modification and I believe both can be used. I have used each one separately.[/quote]

so we saw the magnet configuration, what is the other one alluded to here?

Hi Stonewater,

If you're referring to the other one I mention, it is this one:
Earth Rods

Sephiroth,
The relay will cause the current drop you note but you will also see a reduction in RPM if you measure it.
Regards
Richard

Hi Richard,

I can see why you would think that, but it doesn't appear to be the case... remember the choke is only on the trigger side of the circuit.

The most significant observation of the motor's new behaviour is the absence of self resonance.

This leads me to believe that the relay/choke is blocking high frequencies.

Normally, as the rotor accelerates, there are multiple pulses per magnet (lets say 3 for example). Amp draw slowly increases as the rotor accelerates but then during accelleration there is an amp drop and then it starts rising again as the rotor continues to accellerate. I think this amp drop is caused by the number of pulses per magnet decreasing as the rotor speeds up. So then there are two pulses per magnet and the rotor continues to accelerate then there is another amp drop. Now the coils (should be) pulsing once per magnet.

But with the relay/choke in the circuit, it prevents high frequencies so even during the very low rpm at the start there will be only one pulse per magnet. The choke blocks multiple pulses per magnet. This is why I think acceleration is so slow in comparison but maximum RPM doesn't appear to have dropped.

and because of the imperfections of my rotor, my coils were probably pulsing multiple times on certain magnets and once on others with out the choke. But now with the choke it can only pulse once per magnet and this is what i believe to be the reason for the overall drop in amps.

Tach coming this week, but as aaron says, an occiloscope would probably be handier!

Sephiroth,
It wasn't thinking what I said it was the result of an actual test conducted by a colleague in response to my suggesting it.
I'd be interested in what a scope or other device shows to be actually happening as one result by one individual is not proof positive.
Regards
Richard

Richard, what were the rpm differences with and without the choke on the trigger?

Sephiroth, have you tried doing this with just a choke on the trigger and then with a diode between choke and trigger coil? Diode pointing from coil towards base on transistor.

COIL ----- DIODE |-> ---Choke --- Resistor ------- Trigger

i had a quick go before leaving for work this morning so didn't have time to do any thorough tests but once i connected the diode and spun the wheel it went into resonance... used a 1n4007 since it was handy. Probably should have used a lower value.

turned the pot right down so that there were only the 100 ohm base resistors but couldn't break resonance... possibly because the diode had a too high resistance...

I have a big chunky diode I salvaged from a vcr that has only 150 ohms resistance so will try that when I get home...

What do you expect will happen Aaron? wouldn't it counteract the 1n4001?

Richard - Definatly not proof positive! and I am not saying it improves the circuit... it just has an interesting effect. and of course I'm sure it will vary from machine to machine... like a said, i hooked 2 relays in series and it had negative effects so it is very likely that the value of the choke is important and will probably vary from machine to machine.

But did your friends machine display the same behaviour? Does he have a scope?

and you say amps dropped but so did rpm... were these drops proportional?

hello people

i just finest my new ssg setup this time it is super balanced







YouTube - Bedini SSG type motor new setup

nicely done ray! interesting using relay coils!

Aaron -

just tried the lower resistance diode but it still won't stop resonating! I've taken it out now to continue experimenting with the performance...

what was supposed to happen???

DON'T FORGET THERE'S A LUNAR ECLIPSE TONIGHT!

if anyone has a bench mark for how high a cap can normally charge on their energiser it would be interesting to see if the results are any different tonight.

ray,
your setup looks beautiful
I always enjoy watching such pictures. Thank you!

I seen you're pics and you're vid and it's pretty nice!!!
I was wondering if you intend to try the EARTH ROD after finish you're
testing??
Due to you're setup,i think you can try to hook each of you're negative side
to an earth rod to see the difference between normal setup and with the earth rod???
BTW nice work again!!

peper10

Hi Sephiroth,

I was just thinking of all my experiments with diodes and chokes on the Meyer WFC circuits.

The concept of the choke on those circuits is that you can really get very high voltage out the end going to the cell, while the magnetic field of the choke coil restricts current. The more winds on the coil, the higher the voltage and more restricted current. Those chokes are 10k ohms + so very high resistance but it is NOT the resistance that limits the current, it is the stronger magnetic field that limits the current.

Transformer secondary + -------> DIODE |> ----------CHOKE -----> Annode on WFC ---------> WATER ------> Cathode -----> CHOKE ------> Transformer secondary -

The chokes on both sides of the cell are wound on the same core.

Anyway, when the pulse is ON, the positive potential goes thru diode, through positive side choke and forward. When the pulse is OFF, the diode prevents reversal of polarity there and the charged field of the choke is discharged in the forward direction keeping the polarity the same as the terminals of the WFC (water fuel cell). When the pulse is off, the circuit is essentially OPEN so the charged choke's built up potential will discharge towards ground....moving toward negative.

The diode is what is letting your choke discharge forward to trigger the coil again and that is why it helped kick into self resonance I believe. I didn't think of this before but that is what I think is happening. A scope could show more detail what is really happening. Anyway, the diode to choke concept is also a frequency doubler in the Meyer circuit...two pulses FORWARD for the price of one.

I'll play with this concept on my oscillators because because it might be beneficial, I'll find out.

What was supposed to happen? I was just thinking of general benefit of being able to trigger the trigger while limiting what is leaving the input battery (current limiting)...but I guess without the diode is best.

If we can have some way of the SG triggering with little to no current, wouldn't that be best? How much current does the trigger take anyway? These transistors can switch with virtually no current. I had a rca 2n3055 oscillate while the input was 0.004 ma or 0.0004 ma's, literally and that was only a couple volts I believe. I have the details somewhere.

I think you could get it to work with no resistor...fix or variable...if the choke was big enough, which would be a matter of just tuning the choke to your application.

I suppose without the choke, if you know how much current the trigger takes at your max speet sweet spot, then just wind a choke to limit that much current...the voltage will still get through. [maybe a way to send the rest that isn't needed from the induction to the charging batt?]

Just an idea...you really got me wondering about this! lol

If the trigger is only supposed to be powered by magnetic induction of the rotor's magnet turning over it...coil charges, then releases and turns on transistor, what is reducing the current draw?

Is your choke on trigger setup causing a faster off/on time to reduce duty cycle?