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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #631 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 02:32 AM
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kooler kooler is offline
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3rd stage

i made a small video again to show you guys some thing interesting ... well i thought it was..lol

YouTube - joule thief w/3rd stage

no sparks this time ...sorry
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  #632 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 04:04 AM
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CosmicFarmer CosmicFarmer is offline
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more scramble

Im sorry to get hung up on this one specific part but I'm still obsessing over scramble windings.

Scrambling your "secondary" is what Jeanna suggested (right?) however I also scrambled my primaries too....... Every time I wind a coil I get hung up on every little detail ... Capacitances between wires, Field directions, clockwise counterclockwise...


@Jeanna
Would you recommend scrambling your A+B winds?
I am thinking that doing so, the field as its being generated would be weakened, but its all going the same clockwise direction so it might not matter. Maybe I am thinking too hard...
(I hate it when people say I do that! I usually tell them they aren't thinking enough.)

Hahahah I'll shut up now and finish what I was doing.
Cheers
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  #633 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 07:14 AM
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Inquorate Inquorate is offline
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And now for Impedence matching

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicFarmer View Post
Sorry for the reply spam but I cant edit my message any more

@Jeanna
"Scramble wound" Sounds interesting! thats like how I wound my layers too. groups of 15 with equal sized space for return path. 4 layers and with insulation tape.

Right now I have 40 winds both A and B.... Would removing 90 % of one wind help in any way other then less copper onboard? I had my mind set in "Electrical Engineer mode" thinking high inductance and many wraps would equal a strong grip on the toroid but it seems all the toroid needs is to feel the oscillations, and like a SEC transmit it efficiently through the medium to a monster recovery wind. The next one I make will have your 10/1 ratio.

@Inquorate

I agree with your statement about the relationship between frequency and volts. I thought previously that since battery amps can not increase as Hz increases, thus less power per pulse(which IS happening) but that alone would not count for the obvious sweet spot when you are tuning. I made a short video illustrating this power reduction with frequency increase and sweet spot with my Christmas colored JT.

YouTube - Resistance vs Light output
Nothing fancy and I didn't edit it any.

I find it interesting Jeanna is resonating at such low resistances.

Also, I found if you use a secondary (third wind) with a load, then you can remove the LED load or whatever is in its place and the voltages will skyrocket on the recovery wind.

Having a JT hooked to a SEC in place of the normal LED spot, and a LED on the recovery wind is an Either/Or situation for me. Turn on the SEC, off goes the LED. Turn off the SEC, On comes the LED. The SEC works better hooked to the A+B wind pair instead of recovery wind, but both work fine.



More theory, but here it goes... Add a resistor to your xmas light led string, and the 'sweet spot' should shift a bit.

I think of Impedence as like a car exhaust pipe; without the exhaust the engine has no back pressure, and loses power. With too much constriction in the exhaust the car loses power.

Perhaps inductors between groups of LED's lowers Impedence as well as reintroducing particular frequencies of the ambient RF caused by the toroid.

Great work guys, keep it up
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  #634 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 02:18 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Hi Kooler

You beat me to the punch! After seeing Pirates video with 2 toroids stacked I was going to try what you did. Excellent!

What I want to try with a dual toroid set up is to light some leds with one side and try to charge up 1 or multiple batteries with the other side. Not sure if one side can charge while the other side lights leds though. Can you give it a try?

The other day I was lighting up a 150 string of leds and hooked a FWBR into the end and was charging a cap. Now my meter may have been wigging out but I started adding winds to the primaries and the voltage in the cap started getting higher. I added on both A and B sides till I ran out of the wire I had on both. Voltage climbed every time the winds got higher. But when I tried to light a CFL it would no longer light up which indicates lower voltage. I'll have to replace the battery in my meter and recheck.

Anyways nice demo Kooler and let us know if you get a chance to try and charge a battery with one side and put out some light with the other.

Mark
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  #635 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 02:29 PM
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Just a thought here but I wonder if it would be possible to incorporate the bipolar switch into the big toroid?
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  #636 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 02:38 PM
unzapped unzapped is offline
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I have a dumb question

How long does a brand new aa battery last on a typical joule thief circuit? with a couple leds?

Thanks
UZ
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  #637 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 03:16 PM
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Tectalabyss Tectalabyss is offline
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running time

Quote:
Originally Posted by unzapped View Post
How long does a brand new aa battery last on a typical joule thief circuit? with a couple leds?

Thanks
UZ
Hi .
Ive had them run from a couple of days to over a week depends on the toroid and the way its wound.at least from my experience. which isnt to great.aways more to learn : )
Thanks Tec

Last edited by Tectalabyss : 12-17-2009 at 03:18 PM. Reason: add
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  #638 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 04:20 PM
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Tectalabyss Tectalabyss is offline
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Something ?

Hi everyone.Here's something I am trying with two jule Thief's both with sec's.
both are 3 inch od dia.I cant find the one's used by Jeanna and lid motor I am trying to run the sec's back to each JT to see if this improve's the run time.will test these for the rest of the week.I tryed to wind a big sec last week what a mess a bird's nest looked way better al thumb's
Thank's Tec.
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File Type: jpg MVC-258F (2).JPG (86.9 KB, 71 views)
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  #639 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unzapped View Post
How long does a brand new aa battery last on a typical joule thief circuit? with a couple leds?

Thanks
UZ
If you can get your amp draw down low enough, and, depending upon what leds you use you can get one to run for months on a new AA battery. Gadgetmall has several that have been running for months now.

Bill
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  #640 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2009, 11:12 PM
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dual toroid

mark,
about four months ago when i bought 4 of these.. i tried all kinds of ways
that i will probably try again.. now that i know how to wire these things for best output...
thank you jeanna for your deep research and knowledge that you pour into
the toroids
i did notice a load on one side still affects the other side
its when there wired together the draw goes way down
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  #641 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 01:54 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Hi everybody,
I received the toroids the other day and confirmed that the one I had and lidmotor etc used from allelectronics is indeed the

OW48613TC from MMI
The distributor in the southwest is MTL in umm I think Arizona or CA.
They have a $30 minimum and the price will be around $2 ea plus shipping.
So, Gadgetmall who has a website for this kind of thing made an order.
They will probably cost him $3 so my guess is that he will want 5-6 for them plus shipping to you.
I have not even talked with him about this but it seems right compared to allelectronics price of $3.50.
So, if you only want a couple instead of 15 Check out gadgetmall's website.
He will be letting us know when they arrive.

Now, I can get back to playing...

jeanna
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  #642 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:10 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unzapped View Post
How long does a brand new aa battery last on a typical joule thief circuit? with a couple leds?

Thanks
UZ
Hi uz
I made some normal led candle circuits about 5 years ago.
They had a 47r resistor and 1 yellow/orange led and 2 AAA 700mAH NiMH batteries.

Those batteries last 4 nights all day and night to 1 month all day and night.
The bright whites are the ones that run for a month or longer. I believe it is because they are so bright that when they are almost out, they are still bright.

My joule thief circuits are not normal because I remove the led from the transistor C-E and only use the secondary.

In my experience it is running the transistor that takes the battery power in this kind of joule thief.

The fresh battery 700mAH AAA again - only 1 of them, usually runs one to 20 lights for the same amount of time which is about 12 hours. [This means the energizer AA with 2500mAH will run for 36 hours.]
I personally believe it is because what is turning the lights on is the back spike from turning the switch on and off, and not mA from the battery like my plain circuits.

That is my experience.
Others use the joule thief in different ways and can speak from their experience.

jeanna
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  #643 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
Hi uz
I made some normal led candle circuits about 5 years ago.
They had a 47r resistor and 1 yellow/orange led and 2 AAA 700mAH NiMH batteries.

Those batteries last 4 nights all day and night to 1 month all day and night.
The bright whites are the ones that run for a month or longer. I believe it is because they are so bright that when they are almost out, they are still bright.

My joule thief circuits are not normal because I remove the led from the transistor C-E and only use the secondary.

In my experience it is running the transistor that takes the battery power in this kind of joule thief.

The fresh battery 700mAH AAA again - only 1 of them, usually runs one to 20 lights for the same amount of time which is about 12 hours. [This means the energizer AA with 2500mAH will run for 36 hours.]
I personally believe it is because what is turning the lights on is the back spike from turning the switch on and off, and not mA from the battery like my plain circuits.

That is my experience.
Others use the joule thief in different ways and can speak from their experience.

jeanna

Let the trumpets blare, and confetti rain from the sky..
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  #644 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 04:23 AM
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Merry Christmas Energetic Forum



When I got done this looked too much like a Christmas wreath to not take a pic and share.

Put a whole green spool of radio shack wire on here. Might be around 400 winds or more, 3 layers scramble wind.

Happy Holidays

Last edited by CosmicFarmer : 12-18-2009 at 03:51 PM. Reason: more pics
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  #645 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 12:31 PM
slayer007 slayer007 is offline
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In this video I just wanted to show the difference the magnets made on the JT transformer. Using the magnets on the transformer makes the light brighter.And makes it so you dont hear the transformer at all.

Here is the video.

YouTube - Magnets on the JT Transformer.mov
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  #646 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2009, 11:55 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Thanks Slayer007,
Thanks for doing that.

It makes a lot of sense, because raising the frequency will raise the sound above the hearing threshold.

For a long time I have held the thought that frequency of spikes operates in a pulsed circuit the same way amps do in a steady voltage circuit.
Increase of brightness with increase of frequency is a good piece of additional evidence for this.

(Of course I must also remember to add: when you increase the frequency in a joule thief circuit,you will also lower the volts. In a lot of these circuits that use spikes, we have excess voltage so it usually won't hurt the light.)

So, the trick is to raise the frequency to the highest level possible that allows the voltage to remain high enough to turn on and keep on the light.

thank you so much for doing and showing this... wow

---
@CosmicFarmer,
Hey thanks for the pretty wreath and ornament.
As an ornament it really looks great.

OK so, now add a battery and a bunch o' leds and put it on the top for the great star!

Very nice,

jeanna

Last edited by jeanna : 12-19-2009 at 12:04 AM.
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  #647 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2009, 08:00 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Toroids: J type notsogood, W type terrific

Hi everybody,
I finished my test on the J type material I received as a sample from the toroid people.
I posted a small pic at ou and if you want to see the pic and some comments, here is the link.
If you are busy today don't bother.
I will not be using this type and the pic on overunity.com is for documentation only.

big flakey fight to light the 2 1/2" toroid J type material.

NOW
TA DA

I used the 2 1/2 inch toroid from the same folks but with the W core like the jeanna's light and it works fine.
I will post a pic, and here is the page on ou
the W type pix

Here is the info
2T,8T,100T
TIP31C
236r
835v465Hz ...very low!

It lights the 15w growlight tube and the 20w cfl easily and well.
Here are the pix.
I am going to wind this like the Golden one and see how it does with so many turns.
100T is very few, so I am pleased at this progress. I just want to push it hard and see.
here are the pix.
jeanna

oops I forgot to measure amps draw, and when I remembered the AAA rechargeable was too low.
I don't have one charged up right now, and just popped in the Li AAA and OMG it showed 1200v (with the same 100 turns!)
The amps draw with that lithium is 160mA. I think I will recharge and try again with the NiMH.
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File Type: jpg OW46113tube.jpg (63.6 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg OW6113CFL.jpg (118.2 KB, 65 views)

Last edited by jeanna : 12-20-2009 at 01:52 AM. Reason: update with the other toroid
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  #648 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2009, 02:28 AM
Vortex Vortex is offline
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Jenna and All,
Now that MATERIAL W seems worthy ..
I remind ya all of Toroid made of Material W (ICH) H5C2T31X8X1 1.23 O.D 0.718 I.D. 0.218 Thick
$1 each or $0.75 for 10+ (using 2 coils might be effective )
links here: Big Joule Theif
and Material info
links here: Big Joule Theif
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  #649 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2009, 02:51 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
Jenna and All,
Now that MATERIAL W seems worthy ..
I remind ya all of Toroid made of Material W (ICH) H5C2T31X8X1 1.23 O.D 0.718 I.D. 0.218 Thick
[/url]
Yes, vortex, the W seems to be the stuff.
CWSBytemark has a few of them in W and so does the place I mentioned above.(MTL??) and they both have minimums of $30.00 so even at 25 cents, the minimum will getcha.
I think these big ones will be around $5 or $6

Gadgetmall in NC has a website and he is buying an order of the big one (the exact one) for jeanna's lights for folks to buy from him.

Thanks Vortex.
Gadgetmall posts here too and sometimes calls himself fusionchip.
Yesterday he indicated that he already placed his order, but if you pm him you could let us know what he says.

thank you,

jeanna
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  #650 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2009, 02:49 PM
everwiser everwiser is offline
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I haven't checked Mouser Electronics for these but there is no minimum order restriction so if you want to only buy a few parts you can. Of course, you'll probably want to make the shipping cost worthwhile by getting more in parts than shipping but there you are. I get most of my components from them.
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  #651 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2009, 07:45 PM
unzapped unzapped is offline
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Thanks for your replies

Thank you for your replies... I am using this information for my joule thief maglight project.

Thanks
Jason
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  #652 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2009, 05:17 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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a new video

Hi everybody,

I made a new JT secondary powered light bulb modification.
I also modified the lamp so the whole lamp and bulb work together as a joule thief secondary light.

(aka jeanna's light, I think.)

19leds jeanna's light in a lamp

Enjoy,

jeanna
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  #653 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2009, 05:48 AM
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Way to go Jeanna! That is really cool.

Bill
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  #654 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2009, 01:55 AM
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Hi guys/gals,

nice work on the joule thief

never thought adding a third coil(for the CFL) will be fine... usually the LED in the collector "catches" the BEMF , and therefore lights up..

anyways, will try making one also...

parts to be used: those switching transistors commonly found on PC PS..rated at about 7A 400V .... for the core, cant seem to find a big enough torroid for it(I have one here about 1.2" OD but 10T is only about 88uH on my LC meter) I wonder if this is even suitable.. not SO sure where this torroid came from(maybe just for EMI filtering)... so.. CORE to use would be (again) from the PC PS trafo E-I core (with airgap removed)....I think this will do fine..

till next year! merry X-mas and a Happy New YEAR to all!
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  #655 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
Hi everybody,

I made a new JT secondary powered light bulb modification.
I also modified the lamp so the whole lamp and bulb work together as a joule thief secondary light.

(aka jeanna's light, I think.)

19leds jeanna's light in a lamp

Enjoy,

jeanna
Very nice work !

I got this membership , before the one on OU , i maybe time to use it ! Since pretty much everyone is here.

Mark
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  #656 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2009, 11:50 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Hi Mark,
Yes, and this is a quiet forum compared to ou.

----

So, for that reason and because not everybody here likes to thrash it out at ou (or whatever) I am announcing my latest success.
I wound a toroid with the MK1jeanna hybrid type winding with about 110 Turns on the secondary and got 600v-727v.

What is so great to me about this is how small the toroid is... 0.86 inch OD.

the windings are
2T,9T,110T
TIP31 from RS
25r at the base
one AAA battery.

It lights a neon
a 7w fl tube
a 15w tube
it dimly lights a fat 20w fl tube but it stays lit when my hands are off it.
No cfl.

So, I had just suggested to lidmotor to take his apart and gut it for the easiest bright light (which is true)
I grabbed an unmodified 19leds bulb and it lights at full brightness. wow.
This is more light than the cfl even though the cfl is harder to light.

So here is a christmas present to all.

jeanna
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  #657 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2009, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
It lights a neon
a 7w fl tube
a 15w tube
it dimly lights a fat 20w fl tube but it stays lit when my hands are off it.
Congratulation .
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  #658 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:14 AM
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Way to go Jeanna!

Bill
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  #659 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2009, 06:17 PM
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@ Jeanna
I havn't taken my LoA bulb apart yet so I might try your new toroid coil on it first. I have a core that should work on this. I'm working on three projects at the same time now and trying to fit them into any free time during the holidays.

Thanks,

Lidmotor
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:18 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 286
Thank you everybody,


OK lidmotor,
Here is a closer look. I described the details above so I won't repeat it... just a closer look.
I wrapped the string 3 times around each side of the centertapped primary to keep the primary from being overlapped by the secondary. The string is about as thick as some 24awg wire.
This is the Tor-61 from allelectronics. I am going to check out the mmi info now to see what they have.
jeanna
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Last edited by jeanna : 12-26-2009 at 09:22 PM.
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