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  #601  
Old 12-09-2009, 05:46 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Very nice, Mark!

Please tell me since they are unmodified are they full or even near full brightness?
I have to modify the bulb and remove the stuff inside to get full brightness. It really does get to full brightness, which is exciting.

But...
I have just blown my transistor, so I will have to return with better results tomorrow.

I wanted to use the light's switch the way I did with the globe fixture, but not take the lamp apart, so I got it all hooked up and used the plug ends of the lamp, but this was only about half brightness. I am not sure why.

So, I am going back to the drawing board for the night.

jeanna
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  #602  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:57 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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LED candelabra bulb

@ Jeanna & Mark
I finally got one of those LED candelabra bulbs and it worked on my setup. I could get it to full brightness on 1.5 volts but the amp draw was way up there. It acts kinda weird using the inside guts so I might take that out like you did Jeanna. I was really surprised at the amount of light when it came on bright. I might make another boxed light using a "D" cell battery for the increased amp draw. A good heat sink for the transistor will be needed also. Jeanna--let me know if you get another source going for the big toroid core. I can get the smaller 2" ones but they sing pretty loud and don't work as well.
Mark I am very interested in how you got a string of these LED bulbs to work and if there was much light output. I have done something similar on another project using FLs in a string but the light was never very good. It was just a bunch of bulbs lit up like glowing neons. It was interesting but not useful light.

Cheers,

Lidmotor
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  #603  
Old 12-09-2009, 08:17 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Hi Lid and Jeanna

I wish I could say my led bulbs were at full brightness but they're not. My guess would be 60-75% brightness.

I used a 2 light fixtures that I had for my bathrooms to light up all the bulbs. One of them has fixtures for 8 bulbs and the other has 4 fixtures. I ran 11 of the bulbs last night for about 3 hours on the AAA battery and noticed they started to dim quite a bit so the draw maybe quite high. The battery was probably a year old but had never been used before.

I also lit up a string of 150 led christmas tree bulbs also. I'm at my up north home now but when I head back to my other residence I'm going to see if I can light up my christmas tree that has 700 leds on it. May have to use a couple batteries in series but just have to see if its possible.

Whats the highest voltage you two have tried as input into the big toroid? I tried to push 12 volts through it but it acts like a short.

Mark
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  #604  
Old 12-09-2009, 08:49 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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string of leds at full brightness attached

Hi lidmotor and Mark and everybody,

I found at least one diode at each end of those strings, and I have taken one string down to just a string of 34 lights. You can tell where it is because there is a third wire that goes into the bottom of the ones with the diodes. I only got into one of these and I betcha there is also a resistor.
I have an older string which does not have so much protection.

I have no doubt you can light up your tree, Mark.
The number they seem to aim for is 35 per unit because if you plug 35 leds into a 110 v circuit you will not need a resistor.
Then they add a resistor for safety from the inevitable power surges then they add a diode. I do not understand that, but it seems to be everywhere. Maybe it is brighter if they force the ac down a one way street.

@lidmotor,
That was a really great video, as I said right there. I especially appreciate the way you 'showed' how when you use the pulsing magnetic from the pulsing electric coil, it seems to take less amps draw.

I agree that a 'D' cell is a good way to go.

About a heat sink.
I have never needed a heatsink when using the secondary for power production.
If you are getting heat on anything, I would suspect a problem.

I better start soldering before the afternoon cold sets in. My solder iron was not able to beat the chill of the room last night. (Speaking of heat sink... I could USE some heat! )

thank you,

jeanna
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File Type: jpg ledstringFullBright.jpg (101.8 KB, 98 views)
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  #605  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:19 PM
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short

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Whats the highest voltage you two have tried as input into the big toroid? I tried to push 12 volts through it but it acts like a short.
We don't say "short" here.
We say electrically challenged.

So here's the deal as I understand it.
The coil will create a certain reactance
XL = 2 * PI * f * L
were L is your inductance in Henries and
f is essentially the resonant frequency you are
after. Input voltage can vary the "f" that it will
attempt to resonate to.
If XL is too low, yes it behaves like a short.
However, with the Joule Thief, we have bifilar
or trifilar, etc. ... and so its really a transformer too.
Everything on the 2ndary effects the impedance seen
on the primary side ... transformers to an
impedance conversion subject to turn ratios
and a constant associated with how well
inductive coupling is happening (with 1 being PERFECT
and less than 1 being the real world coupling).
In metaphysics, the yin-yang symbol
(and many other symbols) depicting
the dance between energy couplings--
expressed using golden-ratio/Fibonacci spirals.
This sort of thing happens in a transfomer -- I suspect.
I digress...

Anyway, it won't oscillate unless you have certain
conditions met with respect to that impedance
or reactance in the coil.

It might be good for this "big joule thief" team to try
to get to the bottom the exact equations here for the
transfomer / reactance.
I'm looking for a spread-sheet chart for newbies to know
what will work and what won't work with respect
to Joule Thief transformers.

When it don't resonate, however, you might be able to
add capacitors here and there to make it go.
Also, start with the most simple load at first ... a single LED ...
before getting too complex with loads.
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  #606  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:38 AM
Mark Mark is offline
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Thanks Morpher
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  #607  
Old 12-10-2009, 01:01 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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@Morpher44,

This is a good idea.
I will probably learn what impedance means and implies by doing this.

Please make one more thing clear in your idea.
This primary is a center tapped wire which takes in the voltage from the center tap and proceeds to move it out the toroid (important) in opposite directions.
To my mind, this is what makes it different from other bifilar arrangements.
This was recently brought home at ou by some of those special people who believe they know everything. We were told that I was wrong and it was a series bifilar. He was wrong, and I like that center tap part to be up front in the beginning.


A few weeks ago, I charted the inductances of 4 toroids with 1-9 turns on them.
After I open open office for the first time I can post a chart with that info.
I do not know (or have a clue) how to work that L= n^2 A /2 p r equation into anything so I will let you help with this chart.

@all,

I am almost finished with my new light bulb.= a self contained light bulb with a joule thief and switch (and rheostat ).
This is bright, but not fully bright.
However, if I use a 2.4v battery pair it does get fully bright.
I think a lithium battery =1.6v might do the trick. I'll be back with that and a pic.

still no package of toroids...

jeanna

edit
Here are 2 pix.
I set it up so you could compare the brightness / sharpness of the shadow cast of the battery but it is very easy to see the difference when looking at the alcohol bottle.
However, they are both bright and the single lithium AAA is experienced as very bright.
j
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bulbwith2AAANiMH.jpg (99.3 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg bulbwithlithiumAAA.jpg (84.9 KB, 73 views)
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  #608  
Old 12-10-2009, 01:09 AM
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CosmicFarmer CosmicFarmer is offline
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I got one of those LED chains, but it is in a net formation. Un even number of colors and the last one at the end does have 3 or more connections. Knowing that might have saved me a day of noodling around ;-)

Interesting to have a wall of light to play with
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Last edited by CosmicFarmer; 12-10-2009 at 01:10 AM. Reason: w
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  #609  
Old 12-13-2009, 03:45 AM
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car coiling

my last video of my high voltage joule thief car coil thingy
i used jeanna's toroid setup

YouTube - joule thief hv

please don't make fun of my messy table...haha
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  #610  
Old 12-13-2009, 05:48 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Really kool experiment & video

Quote:
Originally Posted by kooler View Post
my last video of my high voltage joule thief car coil thingy
i used jeanna's toroid setup

YouTube - joule thief hv

please don't make fun of my messy table...haha
Thanks for posting this. I watched your video about four times. What a neat application of Jeanna's big toroid circuit. It looks like you went from the toroid secondary into a large bridge rectifier, put a high voltage cap on that, and then went to the car ignition coil? Then I get lost. Does the neon trigger the car coil to fire or does the cap? If you get a chance, let us know how this last part is wired. Thanks. I am somewhat of a "Blue spark" addict and love playing (carefully) around with that stuff. I even like the sound it makes. Mini lightning and thunder ----but watch your fingers boys and girls.

Lidmotor
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  #611  
Old 12-13-2009, 08:54 PM
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@lidmotor & all

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  #612  
Old 12-13-2009, 11:33 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Thanks Kooler

@Kooler
Thanks for the quick circuit posting. This is like your 1.5 volt stun gun circuit that you posted back on page 17. I had alot of fun with that one. I figured that this new circuit used a neon triggered SCR also. Next step is to go get a million neon bulbs.

Lidmotor
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  #613  
Old 12-14-2009, 12:43 AM
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neons??

nah.. you can do alot with this circuit
run microwave transformers ...
another jeanna style jt... for more voltage to run a third stage...
you can run it wireless like a sec...
it just needs more hz to lite cfl's
if i could get 40 more hz i think i could lite 3 cfl's of the 9-13 watt range

if you don't like a shock .. i wouldn't play with this
i still get my self.. ever once in a while
hahaha
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  #614  
Old 12-14-2009, 02:53 AM
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Could not the toroid ferrite core be replaced with a coil?
Use a coil for the core?

YouTube - Electric motor [ 4000-foot Winding ]

just thinking
randy
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  #615  
Old 12-14-2009, 04:42 AM
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ign coils X2

lidmotor
i went ahead and done a couple demo's
just to show how simple this is...
two ign coils and then a micro transformer...
the power of single cell batt or is it magic...?

YouTube - joule thief HV X2

have fun

danger high voltage
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  #616  
Old 12-14-2009, 08:20 AM
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Hi folks, Has anyone used 12volts or greater with the Joule thief circuit? Reason I ask because I cannot seem to prevent heat buildup with this circuit at 12v or higher. Bedini spoke of something called cross conduction currents and that this may be the reason for the heat, though I placed the diode from base to emitter and still same heat. Though in his circuit, running the feedback wire that normally connects to positive rail, in his it's connected to ground and this along with resistor from collector to base prevents almost all heat. Any thoughts appreciated.
peace love light
Tyson
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  #617  
Old 12-14-2009, 12:51 PM
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Hi folks, This is for anyone that may try greater voltages of 12v or higher with the joule thief circuit and have problems with transistor heating, use this circuit, it is working very well.
HTML Code:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/366-bedini-solid-state-oscillators-2.html#post18246
hope i did that right.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post18246
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  #618  
Old 12-15-2009, 05:51 PM
slayer007 slayer007 is offline
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In this video I have a Joule Thief running a SEC 15 and lighting a 4w CFL off a 1.5v AA battery.

The transformer is from an old PC power supply.
I have three small magnets on top of the transformer to help with oscillation.

The BEMF from the JT is going into the big cap and running the SEC 15.

Here is the video.

YouTube - Joule Thief Running SEC 15 & lighting 4w CFL.mov
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  #619  
Old 12-15-2009, 10:02 PM
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CosmicFarmer CosmicFarmer is offline
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Hey guys !

I wound a trifilar JT with about 40 wraps on both A and B coil. Recovery wind C had about 200 wraps of fine wire. Flyback toroid. I was able to light up over 20 LED's from one single AAA battery, using a transistor I took out of some junk.

TRANSISTOR N brand
NT
2222A
33c (or 330) (or 336) the number is faded
(only one I had)
And like a smarty I blew the transistor with a 9 volt. It was working fine untill I tuned it low audible and I guess amps got out of control and I heard a POP ... no smoke. Genie got out of something. Coil's fine. Potentiometer's fine. Connections OK.

So I replaced the transistor with everything I have, different 2n2222's, MJL21194, etc, and out of all of them, none preformed as well as that A33C (or A330) . I gather its the best to use for low voltage Joule Theives, as I was able to light up a whole bunch of LED's while the rest of the transistors I tried struggled with 4 or more. The MJL did the best, lighting up 7.


So just a little discovery, I think that transistor might be the best for this application,

I'm looking but I couldn't find. Still will look though.

Thanks.
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Last edited by CosmicFarmer; 12-16-2009 at 04:07 AM. Reason: tranny
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  #620  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:36 AM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Mini Lightning Maker----A Kooler Joule Thief.

@ Kooler
I built your ignition coil circuit but I didn't have the right SCR nor capacitor. It worked but not exactly right so I ordered parts. I stumbled upon another way to get Jeanna's circuit to drive the ignition coil. It was an idea from another circuit that I found which is like a Tesla coil circuit. It uses a spark gap to trigger the cap instead of the neon/scr method. It is a crude way to do it and it doesn't run fast but makes nice "mini lightning". Here is the video.

YouTube - Mini Lightning Maker.ASF

@ Slayer
The crossover between the joule thief and SEC is very interesting. I will have to try your new method.

@ Jeanna
Any luck yet finding a new source for the big toroid cores?

Cheers,

Lidmotor
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  #621  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:45 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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YES!!
The toroids samples came this afternoon and I tested the inductance of 1-10 turns and compared the W with the J permeability on the biggo and also on a smaller one that is 2 1/2 inches diameter.
I made a pdf from the spreadsheet.
Please let me know if you cannot see it.

jeanna
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File Type: pdf ToroidInductances.pdf (81.4 KB, 101 views)
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  #622  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:50 AM
slayer007 slayer007 is offline
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Great Video Lidmotor.

Thats a Very Big spark from a 1.5v battery.

@All

If you dont have a SCR you can use two transistors to do the same.
A PNP and a NPN will do the same thing.

Here is a link showing how to wire the transistors for a SCR.

The Silicon-Controlled Rectifier (SCR) : THYRISTORS
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  #623  
Old 12-16-2009, 03:30 AM
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CosmicFarmer CosmicFarmer is offline
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@Jeanna
Dramatic, how fast the inductance rises per turn...

I did a little more testing and found out the MPSA06 transistor can preform as well as the NT2222 336 did...

But now I have another ...

While testing a MJL transistor, my transistor tester "genie" went over to my JT, because as soon as the tester broke (dont know how) the JT 'fixed' and now EVERY transistor I test can light 15 LEDs ... There are differences in brightness, but I am using a 2n2222 now and its bright as can be. Better then before actually.


So one fixed and one broke. I would say the genie moved
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:51 AM
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I know this is a bit late and I have not been here much but...here is my Limotor's Jeanna Light replication video:

YouTube - Pirate's Lidmotor Jeanna Light Joule Thief Replication.wmv

I can't keep up with you people.

Bill
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  #625  
Old 12-16-2009, 06:59 AM
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Sorry for the reply spam but I cant edit my message any more

@Jeanna
"Scramble wound" Sounds interesting! thats like how I wound my layers too. groups of 15 with equal sized space for return path. 4 layers and with insulation tape.

Right now I have 40 winds both A and B.... Would removing 90 % of one wind help in any way other then less copper onboard? I had my mind set in "Electrical Engineer mode" thinking high inductance and many wraps would equal a strong grip on the toroid but it seems all the toroid needs is to feel the oscillations, and like a SEC transmit it efficiently through the medium to a monster recovery wind. The next one I make will have your 10/1 ratio.

@Inquorate

I agree with your statement about the relationship between frequency and volts. I thought previously that since battery amps can not increase as Hz increases, thus less power per pulse(which IS happening) but that alone would not count for the obvious sweet spot when you are tuning. I made a short video illustrating this power reduction with frequency increase and sweet spot with my Christmas colored JT.

YouTube - Resistance vs Light output
Nothing fancy and I didn't edit it any.

I find it interesting Jeanna is resonating at such low resistances.

Also, I found if you use a secondary (third wind) with a load, then you can remove the LED load or whatever is in its place and the voltages will skyrocket on the recovery wind.

Having a JT hooked to a SEC in place of the normal LED spot, and a LED on the recovery wind is an Either/Or situation for me. Turn on the SEC, off goes the LED. Turn off the SEC, On comes the LED. The SEC works better hooked to the A+B wind pair instead of recovery wind, but both work fine.



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  #626  
Old 12-16-2009, 07:07 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Hi everybody,

I can confirm that the
OW48613TC is the one we want lots of.

The distributor has a $30 minimum.

gadgetmall has a website where he sells these kinds of things for making cool gadgets, and I expect him to be ordering tomorrow.
I got another smaller size which has a potential to make a higher voltage but the inner diameter is not big enough for the whole spool to fit through and therefore less attractive.

I will report the results of the 2 1/2" ones I got and gadgetmall will surely let everybody know when he has them for sale.
It would be kind of nice to make some presents for family with these
I hope there is enough time...

I will keep letting you know.

jeanna
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  #627  
Old 12-16-2009, 07:34 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicFarmer View Post
@Jeanna
"Scramble wound" Sounds interesting! thats like how I wound my layers too. groups of 15 with equal sized space for return path. 4 layers and with insulation tape.

Right now I have 40 winds both A and B.... Would removing 90 % of one wind help in any way other then less copper onboard?
... The next one I make will have your 10/1 ratio.
It really does make a difference if you are pushing for volts.

My globe lamp is very low turns and 6 leds in series and 4 parallel to each and so really it is only 6 leds, so 40-48 turns is enough. and scramble wound is good enough too.

When you are trying to light a neon with a toroid that has a 1/2 inch inner diameter, which my new winding method does, you need to be careful and use the special winding etc.


Quote:
I find it interesting Jeanna is resonating at such low resistances.
That is a whole other topic.
The resistance of 20r which lidmotor is using is lower than the 33r that I am , but this might be because of the individual transistor differences.
Again it is about pushing the volts.
You only need 450-550 volts to light a cfl.
So if I got 1400 volts and higher it is all wasted.
Well, it is wasted if I don't capture it.

And still another topic:
I have yet to determine how much juice comes out of the battery beyond what the transistor alone takes.
I always try to use the little 2N2222 and 2N3904's because they only drain a small amount from the battery. I can typically get 3 times as much life from a joule thief with secondary circuit with one of those when compared to the tip31c or tip3055, 2N3055.

Quote:
Also, I found if you use a secondary (third wind) with a load, then you can remove the LED load or whatever is in its place and the voltages will skyrocket on the recovery wind.
I call it the thief when the led is between the C-E in the regular jt light position.

Thanks for the christmas lights!

jeanna
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:10 PM
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RE: Keep up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate88179 View Post
I know this is a bit late and I have not been here much but...here is my Limotor's Jeanna Light replication video:

YouTube - Pirate's Lidmotor Jeanna Light Joule Thief Replication.wmv

I can't keep up with you people.

Bill
LOL Bill,

I fully understand. I can't keep up either, it is so hard to choose between going out and trying a path that has never been explored, and doing all these cool experiments that are know to thrill
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  #629  
Old 12-16-2009, 04:28 PM
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Scramble!



1 turn and 12 turns. Will remove the extra 2 during testing to see if power of ten proportion is better.

@jeanna
Thank you for your reply!
Would this wind style be considered "scramble"?
Some times its hard to know where you have wrapped when you come back thru, so I did sets of 5 with spaces. Going to go back and forth like a printer until its done :-) Maybe all the individual bucking going on and back EMF from a "poorly wound" toroid includes more bloch walls (repulsion points, between 2 same fields, possible ZPE?) which add to the collapse.

Imagine a nice clean magnetic field collapsing, and then imagine a knotted looks-like-the-sun magnetic field collapsing. More lines of force crossing the wires in the same area might lead to more voltages? That's just my take.

Also, Maybe I was unclear earlier
Quote:
I call it the thief when the led is between the C-E in the regular jt light position.
That LED between C-E on one of my JT's is optional and its removal increases recovery wind voltages by more then a factor of 10. If you call it "The Theif" with that LED there, I call it "The Bankrobber" with it gone ;-)

Lidmotor told me about the "wrap the wire around a pen" trick, but I found a thin dowel in a hand drill can take the wire off a radio shack spool in about a minute, and that can be passed through the middle of a small toroid. Saves Me So Much Time !!!!!!! I think this method is called "shuttle".
I can focus on wind neatness instead of where the wire is flying around the room and how many shorts in the coil the kitty is going to cause with the moving wire in his paws. The cat is the only one interested in me when I wind my coils ;-)

Thanks everyone.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:51 PM
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The new toy----A homemade SCR

Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer007 View Post
Great Video Lidmotor.

Thats a Very Big spark from a 1.5v battery.

@All

If you dont have a SCR you can use two transistors to do the same.
A PNP and a NPN will do the same thing.

Here is a link showing how to wire the transistors for a SCR.

The Silicon-Controlled Rectifier (SCR) : THYRISTORS
@ Slayer
Many thanks for the link to how an SCR works and how to make one by using an NPN and PNP. That really helped. I can find many uses for that. It might just work in some of these circuits that we have been trying. That was like finding a new tool.

@ Jeanna
Thanks for all the work tracking down the Toroid cores.

@All
Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays


Lidmotor
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Last edited by Lidmotor; 12-17-2009 at 03:43 PM.
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