Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Tesla's wireless electricity transmission

Hi all.
Yesterday I started to read Tesla's patents (thanks slayer007) especially those about one wire/wireless enegry transmission.This is very interesting stuff to read, but still, there are some things that I don't understand entirely So lets start with the one wire transmission patent (593,138).



Tesla used a one layer pancake coil as the secondary of the transmitter and as the primary of the reciever. He used the pancake coil because of its geometry. A coil wound in such manner has high inductance and low resistance. Such a coil can develop very high voltages on the center wire end. Tesla stated that he could make the secondary voltage up to 1000 times greater than the primary voltage. The primary should be wound using a wire of certain length depending on the oscillation frequency that you will be using. He suggests that the wire length should be 1/4 of the wavelength. That means that if eceltricity flows through a wire at the speed of light, that is about 300 000 kilometers per second and you want to use an oscillation frequency of 300KHz, the wavelength will be 1km thus 250m of wire should be used for both the recieving and transmitting pancake coils. Tesla statet that you can use a core in the center of the pancake coil if you want. The primary coil of the transmitter has only few turns of heavier gauge wire wound around the outer perimeter of the pancake coil. The low tension wire end of the pancake coil is connected to the primary coil and then grounded, this is only for safety reasons. The reciever coils are exactly the same in proportions and wire lengths. But here instead the primary coil is the pancake coil and the secondary coil is the low voltage coil. And you can attach the load to the low voltage secondary coil. Also here the primary and secondary coils are grounded. Tesla does not talk much about the power source of the transmitter, it is just said, that it operates at high frequency and high voltage, probably just enough for a spark to jump across the spark gap. He said that he charged up a capacitor and then just discharged it into the primary coil on each impulse. There are also nothing said about the primary and secondary coil ratio. We know that the secondary should be wound from a wire that is 1/4 wavelength, but nothing is said about the turn count of the primary. Why? Is ist not important? Or should it only be mass matched?
Anyway, now to the next patent (645,576):



In this patent Tesla says, that if natural mediums, such as air, is subjected to disturbances of high potential and high frequency, the medium becomes a conductor and you can use that to transmit energy through it. This time there are no wires, the basic setup is the same, but now there is a capacity attached to the high tension wire of the secondary of the transmitter. Telsa states that the capacity, preferably in a spherical form, should be elevated in air as much as possible for best results. Also the reciever coils are the mirror image of the transmitter coils. And the heavy gauge coils are not grounded. The high frequency high voltage oscillations excite the air around the elevated capacity and this makes some stratas or chanells of rarified (or ionized?) air to appear through which electricity can flow at great distances almost without any losses.

There are much more info in the patent and I encourage everyone to read it.
So I guess that if you want to experiment with these things, you will need a variable high voltage capacitor, a high voltage power supply and of course the coils. One could simply use a neon sign HV power supply as the power source, but the problem is its frequency, because they usually operate at 50/60Hz, that means that the the coil wire length should be 1/4 of the wavelength, then at 50Hz you would need 1500km of wire Obviously that is not very practical. The higher the frequency the shorter wire is needed for the secondary coil. So I guess that 200-300KHz could be a good operation frequency, but how to achieve this? I suppose that this could be achieved if the output of the NST is rectified and filtered with a high value cap. Then the power from this HV filter cap could charge up a smaller value HV cap through an inductor and blocking diode.

This is called resonant charging and you can read more about that here:
DC Tesla Coil design

This way we can charge up the smaller capacity cap to a breakdown voltage that is required for the spark to jump across the spark gap. The spark will jump the gap and discharge the cap and then the cap starts to charge up again. So the discharge frequency here would be limited only by the cap value. And you would be able to adjust the discharge frequency by varying the spark gap length and capacitor capacity. Here's where the variable HV cap becomes useful. Could this work? What else could you suggest for a person who wants to play around with these things? I thought that maybe some magnets for quenching the spark would be advisable or submersing the spark in oil to achieve better results. Any ideas? suggestions?
Thank you
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

Last edited by Jetijs; 01-10-2009 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #2  
Old 01-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Inquorate's Avatar
Inquorate Inquorate is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney, Aus
Posts: 2,104
Send a message via MSN to Inquorate Send a message via Skype™ to Inquorate
Re wireless

Haven't read all of your post, missus saying it's bed time... And I'm way under the thumb :-(

But touch should check out Boxa888's videos on youtube if you're interested in tesla wireless transmission of power.
__________________
Atoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-10-2009, 11:44 PM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
Hi Jet

Good to see you diving into the good ole stuff!

I have been building a basic Tesla coil lately for some HV experiments, I am considering using a Neon Sign transformer to make things easy to start with.

Also check out British Patent 8575 along with others regarding the use of HV for lighting purposes (sometimes reffered to as 1 wire)

Best page for his patents IMO is this one KeelyNet Patents.

The matching of coil geometry is new ground for me too. Id imagine that one would try to match the mass from the primary to the secondary, I remember All-Canadian talking about one of his experiments regarding this once. He has the secondary pancake surrounded by a single turn of copper strip I think for the primary.

Didnt you build a Tesla coil a while ago Jet? Care to offer any info?
__________________
"Once you've come to the conclusion that what what you know already is all you need to know, then you have a degree in disinterest." - John Dobson
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-11-2009, 12:01 AM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Thanks Inquorate and ren
In one of his lectures about light effect of high voltage and high frequency electricity, Tesla stated that you can use either AC or DC as the primary power source. If you use an AC generator, then the frequency limit is the frequency that the AC generator puts out and that depends on the RPM's. But with pure HV DC the thing that determines the discharge frequency is the cap size, the smaller the capacity, the faster it charges up till the voltage that is enough to jump the spark gap. Yesterday I spend much time reading Tesla's patents, when I was done, I realized that it is already 5:00AM

ren, I have built a Tesla coil a while ago, but then I didn't know nothing about this stuff it was just like "monkey see, monkey do" thing. I had a secondary of 1000 turns of 0.5mm wire wrapped around 40mm diameter plastic tube. And the primary was a heavy wire of about 5 turns. The power supply was a NST at 12kV 30mA and I adjusted the HV caps in parallel of the HV AC output till I got the longest sparks. Depending on the ground quality (on different locations the results were different) the best result I was able to achieve was about 18cm long sparks. But that was just for fun
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-11-2009, 12:07 AM
cabetcl cabetcl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12
Smile

I glad more people are experimenting in this field.

I also started experimenting in this area.

YouTube - Tesla Wireless Power Trasmitter
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:49 AM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Output Resistor?

@Jetijs:

The speed of light, and hence electricity, varies with the density of the medium. In copper, it's around 100,000 miles per second. This might be useful for your calculations.

Also, I find it interesting that the motors in Tesla's reciever are wired in parallel with the lights. PT Farnsworth, who invented the TV and the Multipactor, always took his output across a heavy resistor.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2009, 03:24 AM
Vortex Vortex is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabetcl View Post
I glad more people are experimenting in this field.

I also started experimenting in this area.

YouTube - Tesla Wireless Power Trasmitter
I liked that video, it shows how easy it is to be fooled into thinking something known is happening when it is really unknown.

@all,
Eric Dollard and Konstantin Meyl has reproduced Tesla's wireless electricity transmission
PowerPedia:Eric Dollard - PESWiki
Dollard shows how they built the transmitter and receiver they used.

Randy
__________________
Remember to be kind to your mind ...
Tesla quoting Buddha: "Ignorance is the greatest evil in the world."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:48 AM
Gauss Gauss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 233
Dollard states Tesla actually made a mistake. The surface area of the primary and secondary should be equal. And Dollard knows. Remember first came Tesla, then Steinmetz, then Dollard and now Meyl. All of them should be studied carefully.

Look at the conjugate geometry of The Tesla system, maybe the transformer is not optimal, surely the ground part is more complicated than a simple cube... I guess the patent leaves many things out to discover for oneself. If anybody has the drawing of the underground chambers of Wardenclyffe I would be the first one to have a look....
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:52 AM
Gauss Gauss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 233
Another interesting feature is the dielectric sphere that turns into a conductor over time..... What was it they called it, cold fusion?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-11-2009, 03:16 PM
amigo's Avatar
amigo amigo is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 744
Jetijs et al.,

Like others here I have been contemplating the "mysteries" of wireless electricity for a while now. I agree that Tesla is at times pretty ambigous about certain aspects of his sytems. Either he presumes anyone reading already knows and it's common knowledge, or it's one of those patent langauge catch-alls where the ambigous language is done on purpose.

I wouldn't say Tesla made mistakes because things he done had a purpose and we really don't know what was going on through his mind. What I could gather from reading materials on the subject is that he was not necessarely going after resonance in his setups.

Mass matching, impedance matching etc. were all important factors for some setups but not the others. He later discovered that geometry played a very important role in the capture, distrubution and release of the RE, it being a surface effect. That's why we see the original pancake coils stretched into the third dimension becoming cones, for example.

Anyways I don't want to preach to the quire here...

What I find most fascinating is not Dollard or Meyl, although they have their own successful theories and work based on Tesla, that's where they stop.

Gerry Vassilatos's writings on Tesla I have found to be of an immense help in figuring out what was going on. Time and time again I go back to thinking what I have read in the "Secrets of Cold War Technology" and "The Lost Science" and ever slightly deeper understanding of the subject occurs, as if a new light is shed yet from another angle.

I speak from my personal experience and purely based on an instinct (a huntch if you wish, or a gut feeling) but I believe there are more "answers" to be found in Vassilatos's books than in Dollard's or Meyl's works combined.

But you have to read the books cover to cover, don't skip the parts that are not about Tesla. I say this because it appears to me that Vassilatos, intentionally or not, had put together seemingly dis-similar subjects into a collage that creates a new picture of our environment combining quantitative and qualitative sciences (you all do know Tesla was a "sensitive" as well and I dare to say he might had been able to see these subtle forces at work when performing his experiments?).

What I'm trying to say is that it seems (to me) to be all one and the same "thing" they all talk about, whether it's Mesmer, Reichenbach, Meucci, Stubblefield, Tesla, Rife, Moray, Brown or Farnsworth. The "thing" I refer to being the Aether, Od, Orgone, or whatever other name it was given to it over the ages.

To finish this long winding post with something practical, I have considered making pancake coils using litz magnet wire. The one I bought has 13 strands of 30 AWG twisted together, from this seller on eBay: LITZ WIRE 13-30AWG 24 TPF 300FT - eBay (item 370140887826 end time Jan-13-09 07:47:42 PST)

At 400 ft length I bought, if I use the whole spool that would give me in actuality 13x200 ft or 2,600 ft (each coil of receiver and transmitter). Full wave makes that 10,400 ft or 94.57 KHz at the speed of light, or 50.77 KHz at 100,000 miles/sec through copper (as per Electrotek above).

This sounds much more managable and "doable" than 300KHz+ HV sources needed to drive it for the straight non-litz wire.

Of course I could be all wrong in thinking this can be done and I'd appreciate feedback on my idea/calculations...
__________________
Are the ravings of a lunatic signs of a genius?

Last edited by amigo; 01-11-2009 at 03:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-11-2009, 10:26 PM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Vector Inversion

@Amigo:

If you're thinking about making a pancake coil with multistrand wire, you might consider incorporating an effect known as vector inversion. This would be similar to using Tesla's bifilar pancake coil as the transformer secondary, in this situation, rather than the single wire coil he specifies in these patents. When one wire is brought out from the center and connected to another wire going back inwards, the two wires of the spiral become a capacitor. In fact Tesla shows how much energy can be stored between the two wires, capacitively, using this arrangement.

Vector inversion is an effect which uses a spiral wound capacitor itself as a transformer. When it is charged, then one end is shorted, a pulse travels around the spiral. Each time the pulse makes one complete turn, its voltage is increased by the original amount on the capacitor. The voltage step-up is limited to around a hundred times. Efficiency is usually around 60%, but that relys on building the cap so that each wind has about the same length. Without leaving a large opening in the center, with the wires going all the way in, the efficiency would drop quite a bit. This would be made up for, transformer wise, by the increasing number of turns, per unit area, near the center.

Tesla's wireless power transmission relied on producing a high enough voltage for the effect to be practical. Using a multi winding pancake coil as the secondary might maximize the voltage.

Patent #4608521 shows the basic effect.

Patent #5567995 shows an extreme example, using multiple windings.

Patent #4507567 shows a High Voltage version.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12  
Old 01-11-2009, 11:53 PM
broli broli is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 530
Dollard also mentions using the outer coaxial cable layer for the high voltage windings. Because of the extreme high voltages the skin effect will be very prominant and thus area is more important than density.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:08 AM
Vortex Vortex is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 899
Meyl used only 2 volts at the source and transmited at 7.2 Mkz
__________________
Remember to be kind to your mind ...
Tesla quoting Buddha: "Ignorance is the greatest evil in the world."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:19 AM
Gauss Gauss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 233
I am thinking about a new pancake idea. Imagine a HV, HF transformer secondary with Litz wire. One wire goes straight into the pancake, the other one you ground before the pancake. Then run them in parallell all through the pancake into the center and out again 2 times getting a quadfilar. At the center you get a spark gap between the 2 wires. Put the whole pancake in the Gray tube grids with an inductive receiver connected to a load. Any thoughts? I feel like the pancake apps leaves somethins very important out, it is merely used as a transformer and I believe it is a mistake, why not use it as cold wave generator in one piece? Simpler version would be to use 2 pancakes and collide the waves from both.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-12-2009, 03:51 AM
amigo's Avatar
amigo amigo is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 744
Hi Electrotek,

Thanks for the suggestion though I am not clear would I use the litz wire to form the capacitance or would it be some spiral wound metal ribbon (looking at some of the illustrations of the patents)?

I will have to read up more on the Vector Inversion effect from these patents and then some (and hopefully get some grasp of it)

My idea with the pancake coil and litz wire was to simply go back to back and feed one end into another's beginning, ten times to achieve sufficient length. How to achieve this Vector Inversion effect in that configuration is beyond me at the moment...
__________________
Are the ravings of a lunatic signs of a genius?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Gauss Gauss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 233
File:TeslaBifilar.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There you have it, ie 100 V from start to finish of coil, 10 rounds(10V per turn). First half of coil 50 V, second half of coil 50 V. Difference between first 2 turns will be 50V(60V-10V). This way you get an E-field between each turn which is much(5 times) stronger than normal. Hope you get the pic.

What I think of is the B-field at the center hole, it should be extremely dense and more so the smaller the central hole gets since all the voltage will centralize it from all directions into a very small space. Now I am of course talking about a pancake coil with no connection out of the central hole, just a loose cable with a tip acting as a spark sender/receiver.

So maybe 2 identical pancake coils put on top of eachother with the 2 ends of the wires at the center acting as the spark gap. Oppose the 2 pulses for a magnetowave generator. Put the 2 coils inside the Gray tube with the circular grids at 90 deg. angle to amplify the wave.

I strongly believe we must see the similiarities between Gray, Meyer, Tesla etc. And Meyer´s late VIC(chapter 10) has no problem with timing and integration(coils get pulsed simultaneously sharing the same impedance), Tesla has the best geometry and Gray the best receiver. Merge them, Gray may have been the first one to realize the importance of collision of waves for best effect, Meyer saw the need for component integration and Tesla found geometry being a key.

As few parts as possible, that is the key to success I believe. Conjugate geometry(Dollard) like above too. Caps, Inductors, transformers, spark gaps should be built in one piece just like nature do. Many standalone parts connected by electric wire will always give us a headache I am afraid.

Just thinking loud, sorry....
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:59 AM
rickoff's Avatar
rickoff rickoff is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 3,354
Reply to Gauss: About Wardenclyffe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
Look at the conjugate geometry of The Tesla system..... surely the ground part is more complicated than a simple cube... I guess the patent leaves many things out to discover for oneself. If anybody has the drawing of the underground chambers of Wardenclyffe I would be the first one to have a look....
You're quite right about the Wardenclyffe facility having special grounding. The Wardenclyffe tower had a shaft sunk 120 ft into the ground, and below that it is said there are 16 iron pipes laid end to end for an additional 300 feet. At this depth (420 feet), Tesla determined that telluric currents (ELF) could easily be transceived from one station to another, at any point on Earth. Tesla explained the necessity of the underground structures by saying, "You see the underground work is one of the most expensive parts of the tower. In this system that I have invented it is necessary for the machine to get a grip of the Earth, otherwise it cannot shake the Earth. It has to have a grip on the Earth so that the whole of this globe can quiver, and to do that it is necessary to carry out a very expensive construction."

Incidentally, the brick Wardenclyffe laboratory building, shown in the photo below, still exists to this day, and is located where Route 25A meets Tesla Street in Shoreham, Long Island, NY. See satellite view of the facility here: Yahoo! Maps, Driving Directions, and Traffic
The building is now owned by AGFA, a European multinational corporation. Interestingly, the site where the tower once stood has been declared a toxic chemical site, supposedly because the previous owners (Peerless Photo products) used the site as a dumping ground for spent chemicals used in their processes. That, of course, puts the tower site off-limits to the public, although it also means that the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation is in charge of digging up the contaminated earth and properly disposing of it (at AGFA's expense, of course). It's unlikely that they will dig down 420 feet, but then again....
The tower was dynamited by the US Government in September of 1917, during World War I. Their stated reasoning was that they feared that the 187 foot tall tower might be used by spies, or that it would be used as a landmark by German submarines. Quite ridiculous, when you consider that the tower could have been guarded, and just as well have served as a lookout tower to detect German submarines. Further, the German submarines could easily have triangulated their navigational positions based upon commercial radio station signal reception, so they didn't require any landmarks, and could navigate Long Island Sound in pitch darkness. Quite a lame excuse the government came up with.

Oh, here's the photo:

The photo was taken around 1903, before the 55 foot diameter hemispherical cupola was attached to the top. The small, shiny dome that appears to be a part of the tower (about halfway up) is actually a smaller tower attached to the roof of the laboratory building, which is still intact. You can see an actual video of the building on YouTube:
YouTube - TESLA LAB FOUND!!! - Wardenclyffe Tower
It's too bad that whoever posted the video used spooky background music, instead of some meaningful narrative, but it's still interesting.

Best to all, Rick
__________________
 

Last edited by rickoff; 01-12-2009 at 08:36 AM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:56 AM
Dingus Dingus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 264
I've always wanted to go in tesla's lab, but there's security guards there who won't let anyone in.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:57 AM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Thank you Rick for your post. I did not know about the special grounding thing
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:59 AM
rickoff's Avatar
rickoff rickoff is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 3,354
Reply to Jetijs

You are more than welcome, Jetijs. Your tireless efforts, and numerous experiments, have been an inspiration to all of us.

Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower was certainly capable of transmitting line of sight and over the horizon communications and power, but it was the concept of transmitting power below ground, at a frequency that would resonate the Earth, which held the greatest promise for the development of worldwide free power. Tesla stated that just one transmitting station of adequate size would be capable of accomplishing all of this.

For more information about what was actually left inside the Wardenclyffe facility when Tesla was effectively locked out in 1915, please see my post at http://www.energeticforum.com/41405-post220.html
Basically, it was everything that Tesla had worked on until that point in time, including what he said was "the greatest of my inventions." Follow the above link to discover what that invention was. It is currently the main topic of discussion in the linked thread, and you will find links to complete plans for replicating the device.

Best to all,

Rick
__________________
 

Last edited by rickoff; 01-12-2009 at 11:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:50 AM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigo View Post
Hi Electrotek,

Thanks for the suggestion though I am not clear would I use the litz wire to form the capacitance or would it be some spiral wound metal ribbon (looking at some of the illustrations of the patents)?

I will have to read up more on the Vector Inversion effect from these patents and then some (and hopefully get some grasp of it)

My idea with the pancake coil and litz wire was to simply go back to back and feed one end into another's beginning, ten times to achieve sufficient length. How to achieve this Vector Inversion effect in that configuration is beyond me at the moment...
If used for vector inversion, the strands of the litz wire would act as the capacitance, and no foil would be needed. The advantage of wiring it according to the *995 patent is that it would produce an extremely short square wave pulse.

Your idea is simpler - and adequate - so you should try it.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:13 PM
rickoff's Avatar
rickoff rickoff is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 3,354
Reply to Dingus:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingus View Post
I've always wanted to go in tesla's lab, but there's security guards there who won't let anyone in.
Do you live somewhere near the facility? I don't, of course, since I live in Maine, but would take a day trip there if it was only open to the public. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? They could probably make some good bucks by offering guided tours of the lab building, so why not have tour guides rather than guards, or at least guard/guides? For that matter, why not have a Tesla Museum there? It would seem reasonable to assume that any objects of real or potential value were probably whisked away from the facility after Tesla was locked out. Indeed, it is said that the building was breached and vandalized, even before Tesla lost his right to the facility. So what is there left to hide from the public? Could it be that some items of significance still remain "mothballed" there as a final act to suppress the technology?

It seems that a local effort was successful in registering the building as a historical site, an initiative that both Peerless Photo and AGFA were not at al keen on. AGFA still refuses to allow public landmarking of the site, which requires owner permission. So you won't see a road sign pointing to the location when driving by on the highway. The street sign reading "Tesla Street" is the only clue. The only allowance for recognition of what this site once was is a plaque attached to the front of the building in 1976 by the Brookhaven Town Historical Trust. It is shown in the YouTube video which I mentioned, but barely readable due to camera motion and poor resolution. The plaque was made in Yugoslavia, Tesla's birth country, and reads,

Quote:
IN THIS BUILDING DESIGNED BY STANFORD WHITE, ARCHITECT
NIKOLA TESLA
BORN SMILJAN, YUGOSLAVIA 1856, DIED NEW YORK, U.S.A. 1943
CONSTRUCTED IN 1901-1905 WARDENCLYFFE, HUGE RADIO STATION WITH
ANTENNA TOWER 187 FT. HIGH (DESTROYED 1917), WHICH WAS TO SERVE
AS HIS FIRST WORLD COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM.
IN MEMORY OF 120TH ANNIVERSARY OF TESLA'S BIRTH AND 200TH
ANNIVERSARY OF U.S.A. INDEPENDENCE — July 10, 1976
__________________
 

Last edited by rickoff; 01-12-2009 at 10:37 PM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:39 AM
Gauss Gauss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 233
Someone somewhere knows it is important not to show the underground parts of Wardenclyffe and it bothers me no journalist is writing about it to enhance public interest.

Anyway, think of a tree root system(conjugate of top) and you will have the answer I assume. The tree is colliding magnetowaves all day(and night) to pick up energy for photosynthesis and matter making. key to the tree is water and stems and branches. Core is dielectric cellulosa and the surface is conductive sap.

So maybe our receiver must be redesigned to make matter in the future.... I believe strongly the next step of this whole invention business will be in making use of optimal effects from pos-pos, pos-neg and neg-neg collision of magnetowaves.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:15 AM
amigo's Avatar
amigo amigo is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 744
Well underground parts...perhaps a deep ground penetrating radar could image those once the location becomes a historical site.

Then again the ghosts of Edison, JP Morgan and Westinghouse are still haunting the people who could decide on the above, so we won't be seeing the location getting any significance anytime soon...
__________________
Are the ravings of a lunatic signs of a genius?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:46 PM
rickoff's Avatar
rickoff rickoff is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 3,354
A closer look at Wardenclyffe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by amigo View Post
Well underground parts...perhaps a deep ground penetrating radar could image those once the location becomes a historical site.
Wardenclyffe already is a registered historical site, although not yet on the National Register. The New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation conducted inspections there, sometime during or after 1994, and they determined that the facility meets NY State criteria for the historic designation. The major pitfall in the designation process appears to be the fact that the site was used by Peerless Photo as a dumping ground for photochemicals, and thus the grounds are considered a toxic waste site off limits to the public for obvious health reasons. And wouldn't you know it - the ground at the base of the tower area is claimed to be one of the contaminated areas. Whenever a toxic dumpsite is declared, the state DEP must arrange for a contractor to come in and excavate the site to a level where no further toxins of any appreciable amount can be found, and DEP officials must oversee the excavation. The first thing they will find, in the center of the tower base area, is the below ground portion of the large 120 foot long central shaft. Who knows if they will actually dig to the bottom of that, but if they do then it is likely that the chemicals would have seeped into the 300 foot deep iron pipes below the central shaft. It is said that the cleanup efforts are in their final stages. It seems strange to me that, in the Wardenclyffe video which I linked earlier, the tower base area is shown and does not appear to be disturbed by excavation. Even the concrete foundational perimeter of the base is still intact. I suppose the video could have been taken several years ago, before the cleanup effort began.

I did find another Wardenclyffe video that purports to show the inside of the main building, and which is very interesting. According to the explorers who somehow managed to get inside and videotape this, the building is massive in size and has a maze of rooms and corridors on multiple levels. That, of course, means that most of the building is below ground, since the above ground portion was mostly just 1 level, with a relatively small elevated portion at the center of the roofline. There is much evidence of vandalism (holes punched in walls, graffiti, floors littered with trash, etc). For the most part the building is empty, but in one office area which the explorers wandered into, there were several filing cabinets and blueprint storage bins, and it appears that a large number of blueprints still exist. The ones briefly shown in the video appear to be architectural blueprints of the facility. These are probably the original architectural prints, or copies of them, as drawn up by architectural firm Stanford White, which designed all aspects of the facility to Tesla's specifications. This included the tower itself, so the original prints showing the tower and substructure would have been included among the prints. Earlier explorers, or other interested parties, no doubt realized that and most likely removed the prints of interest long ago. What is especially interesting about the video is that the first thing you notice is that many of the ceiling lights are left turned on. The explorers say they were already on, and it seems strange that AGFA would leave all this lighting wastefully consuming electricity if they had to pay for it 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. But perhaps there is no cost involved to them. It is said that the Wardenclyffe facility included a generating room, and as the explorers wandered to the lower levels of the facility a high voltage buzzing sound becomes more and more apparent. In the area where the sound is loudest, several signs in the corridor warn of dangerous high voltage. A large transformer, or Tesla coil, perhaps? And if so, then what keeps the power generation functioning? Could it be that the still existing underground parts of the tower structure, which were designed to transceive telluric earth currents, are still continuously receiving the natural telluric earth currents and utilizing these currents to drive the Tesla coil in the generator room (or wherever it is)? Obviously Tesla had the knowledge and capabilities to produce all the power needs of the Wardenclyffe facility on-site. While the generator room was probably a major part of the power production system, other portions of the overall system may well have been located in another area of the building, or adjacent to it. It is likely that there may be an underground passageway linking the main building with the tower foundation. If you take a look at the video that I previously linked (here it is again: YouTube - TESLA LAB FOUND!!! - Wardenclyffe Tower ) and pause it at 37 seconds of play time, you can see a still photo showing a stage of construction near completion of the tower. You can clearly see that the concrete foundation extends probably at least 10 to 12 feet below ground level, and a window and doorway also appear to exist, so it was definitely designed for access, and not only for access during the construction phase. It is said that the tower was intentionally designed so that any portion of it could easily be removed for repair or replacement as necessary. Here's a similar view of the tower and main building, but this angle does not reveal the extent of the concrete foundation:


In any case the explorers did not show the interior of the generating room, or attempt to determine the source of the loud buzz heard in their 9 minute video, which can be viewed here:
YouTube - Urban Explorers: Nikola Tesla Wardenclyffe Laboratories
Again, it's too bad that these video producers feel compelled to dub in music tracks which detract from the conversations of the participants, and the sounds of the environment, but if you can see past that then it's still quite interesting. It's just too bad that someone with knowledge of what to really look for hasn't had the same opportunity as these folks.

Rick
__________________
 

Last edited by rickoff; 01-14-2009 at 03:43 AM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:44 AM
FuzzyTomCat's Avatar
FuzzyTomCat FuzzyTomCat is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 620
Send a message via Skype™ to FuzzyTomCat
Rick

Hey Rick,

Great stuff on Wardenclyffe from you .... here is a link to the "Tesla Wardenclyffe Project" they purchased historian Leland Anderson's archive of some 750 photos related to Tesla's life and work back in 1997.

TWP Nikola Tesla Photo Archive

Best,
Glen


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I attached a current Ariel Photograph of the Main Building thats approx. 94' x 94' and the visible tower location (a blue line between the two).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tesla.JPG (157.6 KB, 47 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by FuzzyTomCat; 01-15-2009 at 06:31 AM. Reason: added thumb
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:25 AM
amigo's Avatar
amigo amigo is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 744
Indeed, thanks for these posts, they were educational for me and presented new areas to contemplate about...

I suppose we'll never really know for sure, but there is a way to come pretty close if those blueprints ever surface in the public. I guess that architectural firm is still around and they must have kept copies of all their works, including this one. I see they are nowdays called Walker O. Cain and Associates...
__________________
Are the ravings of a lunatic signs of a genius?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-14-2009, 04:12 AM
gmeat's Avatar
gmeat gmeat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 264
Hi Rick,


Let me start by saying that i enjoy reading alot of your postings as you have demonstrated that you have a very diverse background and a pretty impressive amount of knowledge .I live a hop skip and a jump away from Wardenclyffe and dont think you'd want to visit there any time soon because it is really run down and delapidated with shrubbery and such all around the building.I personally could'nt even make out where the tower was located from any vantage point that i could attain.Coincidently the best view of the building seems to be from TESLA street which runs in a NS direction just east of the facility(The main entrance is located on Randall road which is just north of route 25A),But you can only see the east side of the building and part of the back from that vantage point.There does appear to be another building that sits just at the end of Tesla street that strikes me as some sort of storage building or maybe a shipping and receiving part of the building for Peerlees photo and it appears to be somewhat newer then the Tesla laboratory.I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that there are 2 seperate buildings ,One being the Tesla building in the picture that you posted and the other being Peerless photo's building which sits just to the left and slightly in front of Teslas Laboratory with the front facing Randall road or towards the right in the picture you posted in post#25.In ending this post let me just say that I'm very appalled at the fact that this facility is in the condition that its in.For a man who ACCOMPLISHED so many things that had a Tremendous impact on society as we know it today to be regarded by the mainstream society as somewhat of a lesser known then someone like Edison just does'nt sit right with me.Heres a funny little thing you may want to try sometime.Every now and then I come across an electrician and I like to ask them if they've ever heard of a man named Nikola Tesla and to be honest with you, I've only done this a couple of times and it has not failed yet but isnt it ironic that not one of them could answer that question until I say he invented alternating current and than they say "oh yea I knew that" .Oh well,let me stop rambling and thanks for all the great postings Rick.


-Gary
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-14-2009, 05:56 AM
rickoff's Avatar
rickoff rickoff is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 3,354
Some good photos, Glen. Also, the Wardenclyffe on Google thumbnail can show some good detail. Click that icon, maximize the window that opens, click to close the white address label, click for Satellite view, find the red pointer with the letter 'A' in it, and notice the circular area just to the left of that. Use your mouse pointer (looks like a hand) to click and grab the circular area and then drag it to the center of the map. At the left side of the map, click the + sign of the zoom feature twice. You will see that the round area is actually the octagonal Wardenclyffe tower foundation. Look above the foundation to the buildings comprising the AGFA plant. The square one with the rough looking roof that appears to have a dark number '7' applied to the top, is the Wardenclyffe main building featured in the videos that I linked to earlier.

gmeat - If you drag the building to the center and then zoom in all the way, you will be able to see the central tower of the building, with the shiny ball on top, as shown in the first video (Tesla Lab Found). There is no '7' painted on the roof, as one would think from viewing the roof at a lesser zoom - it only seems that way because of the shadow that the tower produces on the rooftop. The building is 94 feet per side, according to the original design. You're right about the dilapidation, which is quite apparent from watching the video that shows the insides - and it appears that anything of real interest was stripped away long ago. That is, other than perhaps the generating room and the underground structure of the tower. Perhaps AGFA actually uses the generating room to supply power to their facility. It's really shameful that they haven't maintained the Wardenclyffe building. The Brookhaven Historical Trust named the building as their first and foremost target for historic preservation back in 1967, and I'm sure that many people would have wanted to contribute to the Trust to see that the site was preserved and opened to the public. Just think what a wonderful museum, and place of learning, this could have been if many of the original devices could be rounded up and displayed.

Amigo - now that you have the name of the current architectural firm that should have the original drawings of the tower structure, perhaps you could write and ask them about those drawings - just to see what they would say about them. I wonder if they still exist, or if perhaps JPM made an offer for them that couldn't be refused. And I wonder what became of the Stanford White associate who created the original drawings. It's probably safe to assume that he would have at least kept copies of the drawings at his home, especially since they would represent his crowning achievement, and probably safe to assume that JPM would have assumed that as well.

Certainly is thought provoking, isn't it?

Rick
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-14-2009, 07:56 AM
FuzzyTomCat's Avatar
FuzzyTomCat FuzzyTomCat is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 620
Send a message via Skype™ to FuzzyTomCat
Rick

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickoff View Post
the Wardenclyffe on Google thumbnail can show some good detail. Click that icon, maximize the window that opens, click to close the white address label, click for Satellite view, find the red pointer with the letter 'A' in it, and notice the circular area just to the left of that. Use your mouse pointer (looks like a hand) to click and grab the circular area and then drag it to the center of the map. At the left side of the map, click the + sign of the zoom feature twice. You will see that the round area is actually the octagonal Wardenclyffe tower foundation. Look above the foundation to the buildings comprising the AGFA plant. The square one with the rough looking roof that appears to have a dark number '7' applied to the top, is the Wardenclyffe main building featured in the videos that I linked to earlier.
I went back to the Google view to check it out again ..... I saw something kinda weird.

If you look at the Latitude and Longitude using the mouse pointer of where the ball on the top of the building was it's 40 56' 53.00" N (by) 72 53' 53.00" W originally built in a big open field ... looks orientated square N E S W on a perfect 53.00" am I seeing things or you think this means nothing where was the other end going to be ?? was it France ?? or do we know ??

Glen
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers