Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube ONLY 13% OF SEATS AVAILABLE!!!*** 2017 ENERGY CONFERENCE ***


* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-24-2008, 08:41 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
Arrow Gray Tube Replication

I filmed this several months ago:
YouTube - Gray Tube Replication | Radiant Energy | Cold Electricity

I'll post some more later when I have time.

The plastic tube acts like insulation on a wire...it is a dielectric to hold in the voltage potential INSIDE the tube to keep it from leaking. It locks in the pressure of the gas.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #2  
Old 11-24-2008, 08:53 PM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Great tube you have there
Do you have any test results? What were you able to do with the energy form that grid?
Also, why do you need concentric grids? Why can't you just warp some layers around the tube so that it forms a spiral instead of concentric rings?
Good work!
Thank you for sharing.
Jetijs
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

Last edited by Jetijs; 11-24-2008 at 08:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-24-2008, 08:56 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
How the Gray Tube works

This is a repost from a message in the Water Sparkplug thread where I posted my opinion on how the Gray Tube works...I still believe this is how the Gray Tube technology works:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...rkplug-53.html

How the spark circuit and Gray tube works
Hi Mario,

(Ash, would you be willing to include this entire post in your water spark plug document?)

That is pretty much it.

But I'm sticking to my guns on my explanation that seems to not fit well with some people.

The HV from the coil moves through the HV diode to the + of the low voltage source to ground back to itself...it seeks ground through the diode. That diode is open. When the HV is off, take a volt meter and put the neg on ground and + on the hv diode cathode/output. You will see that you can measure the low voltage side's voltage potential on the output of the diode because the diode is open.

Many people think the diode is automatically closed and won't let the hv through but that isn't true. That is the whole point that diodes have reverse ratings...and if the diodes were automatically always shut, then the low voltage from the annode/input could never get through.

Also, the diode closing is not instantaneous...it is fast, yes, but not instantaneous...once the hv moves through the hv diode...it takes a bit of time for it to get the reverse current through it in order to slam shut.

The HV potential, which is the voltage gas (it is a gas composed of "particles" smaller than a hydrogen atom - smaller than an electron - very, very small fractional charges - Mendeleev's original periodic table of elements showed some of this) has MOMENTUM.

As it is moving, the HV diode slams shut and the voltage potential with its momentum slams against the diode...compressing it more and more...now that re-compressed potential...which is expanded 90 degrees from the wire has to go somewhere...the only path to ground as of now is the gap on the plug. That un-condensed/expanded potential is what causes the primary effect of the cold plasma.

Then, when voltage on the cathode/output of the HV diode drops below the annode/input of the HV diode, then and only then can LV source move out of it and over the gap.

The lv source is not the cause of the effect, it simply can boost the primary effect - which can be had all by itself with one small cap that is virtually empty when discharged to the primary.

Primary effect is that potential slamming against a diode.

Many think the simple hv spark jumping a gap is enough to ionize the gap to reduce the resistance enough to have the lv source follow it...that is simply a fairytale.

Only the recompressed potential against the diode's abrupt shut off can cause the cold plasma ionization that is necessary to allow the lv source to follow. At this circuit's scale of operation, this is all necessary to make these effects.

This is a method of "splitting the positive" that Bedini has shown for years in the open but nobody really got it. If I am wrong, I apologize and will correct all my explanations but until then, that's my story and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong but following the logic of all this, it is very consistent with what Tesla explained, it is consistent with other technologies that utilize this concept, etc...

Working of the Gray Tube

This will put what I'm saying into context with something that many people have studied but I am not sure anyone gets it. Many are convinced in all the free electron concepts in the Gray Tube, etc... McGratten mailed me a package about 7 years ago with that explanation but I always saw it happening in a different way.

The Gray Tube has a low voltage rod and high voltage rod. Low voltage rod has a diode on it that has the cathode/emitter pointed towards the gap. Low voltage source can be any low voltage source and Gray showed he used a 12v battery...the neg of that battery is connected to the neg of the HV capacitor at 3000-4000 volts and a few uf's. The + of the hv source goes to the hv rod.

(-)12vdc(+)diode->(gap)(+)3000vdc(-)

I have made the Gray tube analogy to the spark method and most have automatically thought that they look at 2 gaps and think they serve the same purpose. I'll show you why the 2 gaps have nothing to do with each other but why they are making the same effect. It is necessary to actually understand how the Gray tube works in order to see what the real analogies to the spark plug circuit are.

When the low voltage side is connected by commutator, whatever...the hv source immediately sees path to ground...it sees that the diode is open and has conductivity to the low voltage source which has conductivity to ground which is its own ground...it jumps and as soon as it moves through the diode for a small unit of time, the diode slams shut....only a small fraction of the hv potential made it through.

That hv potential from the cap slams against the diode and compresses against it very strongly forcing it to explode 90 degrees from the wire outwards...the only other path to ground it by going to the grids...through the electromagnet that pulses a magnet or other electromagnet to provide motive force on a motor to a + on another low voltage source and that lv source has a - that winds up being connected back to the hv -'s.

Take a balloon and push it flat against a wall. It compresses and the contents of the balloon wind up exploding 90 degrees perpendicular to the direction of original propagation.

------------

The gap in the Gray tube is simply a mechanism to get the HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

The secondary discharge from ignition coil is a mechanism to get a HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

-------------

The Grids on the Gray Tube are the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

The ground on the spark plug is the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

-------------

Here is what this method is:

You are giving the HV 2 paths to travel in order for it to move back to its own ground or relative ground.

1 path is a high resistance path
1 path is a low resistance path

---------------

The Gray tube high resistance path is out to grids back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's high resistance paths is over spark gap back to ground.

--------------

The Gray tube low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

---------------

1. The HV will choose the low resistance path FIRST
2. Diode slams shut expanding that potential
3. Expanded potential (electro-radiant event) has only the high resistance path left back to ground.

--------------

So when it is explained that the hv spark jumps the gap ionizing it to reduce the resistance of it and have the lv source follow it...is incorrect.

And seeing the analogy in comparision to the Gray tube, that popular explanation of how Luc's spark method works would be the same as claiming that this is how the Gray tube works:

The hv from the hv cap first jumps to the grids ionizing the air to reduce the resistance of it enough for the 12v battery potential to jump from the low voltage rod to the grids...all the while never needing the hv to jump the gap in order to slam against the diode.

We know the above is NOT how the Gray tube works but that is what people are claiming when they say the Spark plug circuit works by the hv simply going to jump over the gap to ionize it for the lv source to follow.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2008, 09:04 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
the results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Great tube you have there
Do you have any test results? What were you able to do with the energy form that grid?
Good work!
Thank you for sharing.
Jetijs
Hi Jetijs,

I have dumped caps as the high voltage source and have also used the water sparkplug circuit...the last pic in the vid you see of the little coil of wire connected to the grid output, it pulses that coil. I used a different coil with a core of welding rod and had a magnet on it and the magnet jumped about 2-3 inches high, which was pretty surprising considering there wasn't much input.

It can also be recovered to a cap.

I just watched for effects and did not make any record or any detailed measurements of anything.

The GAP between both rods is SMALLER than the distance between the rods and the grids. So the choice path is across the gap, when diode shuts closed and the hv potential moves 90 degrees to grids, there is a further distance to jump. I believe this is important to incorporate this concept in any Gray Tube, otherwise the primary HV discharge could simply go to grids and not truly be using the LV side as the path to ground that it should take first. So make distance from rods to grids BIGGER than the rod gap distance.

I'll post some clips of vids I shot of some sparks in the tube. I did not get the magnet jumping on vid unfortunately, but it did as I mentioned.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2008, 09:10 PM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Thank you for the answer. Seems great, it indeed sounds like a lot of power if a magnet can jump so high. Was it a neo magnet? Also, have you tried to attach a step-down transformer to the output of the grid? And what diode did you use?
I found some HV vacuum tube diodes on ebay:
High Voltage Diode Plug In Rectifier New 20 kV 816 Tube - eBay (item 120332092129 end time Dec-10-08 14:36:19 PST)
What do you think about these? The vacuum tube diodes are supposed to have the highest response times.
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-24-2008, 10:08 PM
Gauss Gauss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 233
Well done Aaron(your gas pressure analogy)! That makes sense to me. Just go from there thinking geometry and movement.

Let us discuss the transformer role in these circuits, look at how a transformer is constructed, its geometry, note the inductance of a transformer and the resonant transformer.

Anyone sees the resemblance between Gray-Meyer circuits(cap-inductor-diode)?

How about seeing the concentric cylinders as a form of transformer(inductor)?

How about trying to pick up radiant charge by an inverted cap(diel-cond-diel)? We generate by a normal cap. maybe we should use with an inverted cap(ie for transmutation purposes?)

PS: Variocouplers
Variocouplers are rf transformers with 2 windings and variable coupling between the windings. They were standard equipment in 1920s radio sets.

Pancake coil variocouplers were common in 1920s radios for variable rf coupling. The 2 planar coils were arranged to swing away from each other and for the angle between them to increase to 90 degrees, thus giving wide variation in coupling. No core was used. These were mostly used to control reaction. The pancake structure was a means to minimize stray capacitance.

In another design of variocoupler, 2 coils were wound on a 2 circular bands, and housed one inside the other, with provision for rotating the inner coil. Coupling varies as one coil is rotated between 0 and 90 degrees from the other. These had higher stray capacitance than the pancake type.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:05 PM
gmeast gmeast is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,129
water spark plug

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
This is a repost from a message in the Water Sparkplug thread where I posted my opinion on how the Gray Tube works...I still believe this is how the Gray Tube technology works:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...rkplug-53.html

How the spark circuit and Gray tube works
Hi Mario,

(Ash, would you be willing to include this entire post in your water spark plug document?)

That is pretty much it.

But I'm sticking to my guns on my explanation that seems to not fit well with some people.

The HV from the coil moves through the HV diode to the + of the low voltage source to ground back to itself...it seeks ground through the diode. That diode is open. When the HV is off, take a volt meter and put the neg on ground and + on the hv diode cathode/output. You will see that you can measure the low voltage side's voltage potential on the output of the diode because the diode is open.

Many people think the diode is automatically closed and won't let the hv through but that isn't true. That is the whole point that diodes have reverse ratings...and if the diodes were automatically always shut, then the low voltage from the annode/input could never get through.

Also, the diode closing is not instantaneous...it is fast, yes, but not instantaneous...once the hv moves through the hv diode...it takes a bit of time for it to get the reverse current through it in order to slam shut.

The HV potential, which is the voltage gas (it is a gas composed of "particles" smaller than a hydrogen atom - smaller than an electron - very, very small fractional charges - Mendeleev's original periodic table of elements showed some of this) has MOMENTUM.

As it is moving, the HV diode slams shut and the voltage potential with its momentum slams against the diode...compressing it more and more...now that re-compressed potential...which is expanded 90 degrees from the wire has to go somewhere...the only path to ground as of now is the gap on the plug. That un-condensed/expanded potential is what causes the primary effect of the cold plasma.

Then, when voltage on the cathode/output of the HV diode drops below the annode/input of the HV diode, then and only then can LV source move out of it and over the gap.

The lv source is not the cause of the effect, it simply can boost the primary effect - which can be had all by itself with one small cap that is virtually empty when discharged to the primary.

Primary effect is that potential slamming against a diode.

Many think the simple hv spark jumping a gap is enough to ionize the gap to reduce the resistance enough to have the lv source follow it...that is simply a fairytale.

Only the recompressed potential against the diode's abrupt shut off can cause the cold plasma ionization that is necessary to allow the lv source to follow. At this circuit's scale of operation, this is all necessary to make these effects.

This is a method of "splitting the positive" that Bedini has shown for years in the open but nobody really got it. If I am wrong, I apologize and will correct all my explanations but until then, that's my story and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong but following the logic of all this, it is very consistent with what Tesla explained, it is consistent with other technologies that utilize this concept, etc...

Working of the Gray Tube

This will put what I'm saying into context with something that many people have studied but I am not sure anyone gets it. Many are convinced in all the free electron concepts in the Gray Tube, etc... McGratten mailed me a package about 7 years ago with that explanation but I always saw it happening in a different way.

The Gray Tube has a low voltage rod and high voltage rod. Low voltage rod has a diode on it that has the cathode/emitter pointed towards the gap. Low voltage source can be any low voltage source and Gray showed he used a 12v battery...the neg of that battery is connected to the neg of the HV capacitor at 3000-4000 volts and a few uf's. The + of the hv source goes to the hv rod.

(-)12vdc(+)diode->(gap)(+)3000vdc(-)

I have made the Gray tube analogy to the spark method and most have automatically thought that they look at 2 gaps and think they serve the same purpose. I'll show you why the 2 gaps have nothing to do with each other but why they are making the same effect. It is necessary to actually understand how the Gray tube works in order to see what the real analogies to the spark plug circuit are.

When the low voltage side is connected by commutator, whatever...the hv source immediately sees path to ground...it sees that the diode is open and has conductivity to the low voltage source which has conductivity to ground which is its own ground...it jumps and as soon as it moves through the diode for a small unit of time, the diode slams shut....only a small fraction of the hv potential made it through.

That hv potential from the cap slams against the diode and compresses against it very strongly forcing it to explode 90 degrees from the wire outwards...the only other path to ground it by going to the grids...through the electromagnet that pulses a magnet or other electromagnet to provide motive force on a motor to a + on another low voltage source and that lv source has a - that winds up being connected back to the hv -'s.

Take a balloon and push it flat against a wall. It compresses and the contents of the balloon wind up exploding 90 degrees perpendicular to the direction of original propagation.

------------

The gap in the Gray tube is simply a mechanism to get the HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

The secondary discharge from ignition coil is a mechanism to get a HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

-------------

The Grids on the Gray Tube are the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

The ground on the spark plug is the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

-------------

Here is what this method is:

You are giving the HV 2 paths to travel in order for it to move back to its own ground or relative ground.

1 path is a high resistance path
1 path is a low resistance path

---------------

The Gray tube high resistance path is out to grids back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's high resistance paths is over spark gap back to ground.

--------------

The Gray tube low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

---------------

1. The HV will choose the low resistance path FIRST
2. Diode slams shut expanding that potential
3. Expanded potential (electro-radiant event) has only the high resistance path left back to ground.

--------------

So when it is explained that the hv spark jumps the gap ionizing it to reduce the resistance of it and have the lv source follow it...is incorrect.

And seeing the analogy in comparision to the Gray tube, that popular explanation of how Luc's spark method works would be the same as claiming that this is how the Gray tube works:

The hv from the hv cap first jumps to the grids ionizing the air to reduce the resistance of it enough for the 12v battery potential to jump from the low voltage rod to the grids...all the while never needing the hv to jump the gap in order to slam against the diode.

We know the above is NOT how the Gray tube works but that is what people are claiming when they say the Spark plug circuit works by the hv simply going to jump over the gap to ionize it for the lv source to follow.
...............................................

Well ......... of course ! #$@&*%@! ?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:25 PM
gmeast gmeast is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,129
water spark plug

Hi Aaron,

The effect is indeed awesome and your explanation certainly demonstrates your ability to put the pieces together. Thanks for posting the previous in all its completeness. I have saved it and printed it out for reference in my work.

I truly believe that when you prevent circuit energy from taking the 'easy way out' and redirect it (counter intuitively) that this is when we see the phenomenal behaviors we have been witnessing. It is truly amazing to run the water spark plug replication for hours on end and not experience heat build up on the plug. This 'cold energy' quality was the first unusual behavior that caught my attention.

Peace,

Greg
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-25-2008, 12:00 AM
boguslaw's Avatar
boguslaw boguslaw is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,375
You could also insulate grids. Maybe with delrin, even ;-) I'm 100% serious.
It's the "recreating lightning" method. Though the main way is slamming HV discharge, the air ions charge on dielectric coating may have a role too. Recall that Tesla said that radiant energy could create charge in metal or if not - discharge any charge from metal.
So the first stage would be the beginning of arc which also create ions and negatively charge inner grid by induction. When slamming occur that charge may be speed up to ground adding to the cold electricity current amount.

Just an idea.Radiant energy is surely magnetic flux but the resulting cold electricity may be just HF high current, who knows.

The slamming you described is an effect of magnetic reconnection phenomena and require plasma and unidirectional flow of current inside plasma.
I'm quite sure you cannot get it to work using transistors.Even with normal arc it's rare because there is oscillation inside plasma , no unidirectional current so magnetic filed lines are oscillating too and energy is dissipated by EM waves and heat.
It's also a positive feedback example.

Magnetic Reconnection: MHD Theory ... - Google Book Search
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:50 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
misc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Thank you for the answer. Seems great, it indeed sounds like a lot of power if a magnet can jump so high. Was it a neo magnet? Also, have you tried to attach a step-down transformer to the output of the grid? And what diode did you use?
I found some HV vacuum tube diodes on ebay:
High Voltage Diode Plug In Rectifier New 20 kV 816 Tube - eBay (item 120332092129 end time Dec-10-08 14:36:19 PST)
What do you think about these? The vacuum tube diodes are supposed to have the highest response times.
Hi Jetijs,

I actually thought that it wasn't that much output from seeing the magnet move like that but compare to what was dumped, I think it was a good result. The biggest cap dump I did was 1000v @ 66uf?? maybe maybe not. It was 5 caps in series..each was 200v and 330uf...those photoflash caps you see in the last pic in series in the vid.

I haven't tried a step down and don't know much about that one on ebay. I think I don't recall exactly the diodes but it had to have been one of the three:

1n4001 (string)

one to three of those microwave diodes

or a string of the 1a100's??? 1000v 6a diodes? I posted that in the water spark plug thread somewhere. These were VERY inexpensive and a string to make 15kv for example was a FRACTION of what the larger diodes were for the same rating...but I do like the idea of 1 single instant shutoff and not a series of diodes.

If I had the parts or knew a good one to use, I would use a vacuum triode and use it as a diode because that is what Gray did...but Gray apparently drew his triode backwards to confuse people possibly or maybe he goofed. Bedini always had it correct in his drawings.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:53 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
concentric vs spiral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Also, why do you need concentric grids? Why can't you just warp some layers around the tube so that it forms a spiral instead of concentric rings?
Jetijs, I didn't answer this before...yes you can use a spiral but I like the concentric since it is more symmetrical around the rods all the way...if you did do a spiral, I would still make sure there are spacers so 2 different layers wouldn't touch flat on each other.

Also, just a habit of doing it the same as the inventors until it works.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-25-2008, 04:07 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
magnetic current | cold electricity

Thanks Greg. Yeah, it is like literally tricking it. It goes one way, you cut off that way and at that point, it has no choice but to go whatever way is avail..the 2nd way.

To everyone: I believe from Grids on, there is a "magnetic current" component that comes into play but I haven't really mentioned that yet because I don't know if it is true.

I'll express my belief as an exercise in IMAGINATION (just in case it winds up being something else! lol) BUT - I think anyone would have to agree it is thought provoking and dang near makes sense.

When you have voltage potential moving over the wire, there is the magnetic component at 90 degrees.

WHAT IF - you get that voltage potential to move 90 degrees perpendicular to the wire? You cause force the magnetic vector to rotate 90 degrees and swap places and no longer have the magnetic field perpendicular but an electric field perpendicular to the wire.

The magnetic field made of magnetic particles (bi-directional magnetic particles moving in opposite directions simultaneously...S & N) turns to magnetic current over the wire when turning 90 degrees and moving over the wire, which is cold, does work like amps but has no voltage. 0 voltage but you get work similar to hot current - but kinda different effects.

Anyway, I think it is magnetic current that moves from the grids to power the coils cold with stronger work than is predictable by the input power and so forth.

I see this in the water sparkplug circuits as well.

And again, when I use the comparison between the Gray circuit and the water sparkplug circuit...the gap on the plug is NOT the gap at the rods. The gap at the spark plug IS analogous to the space from the rods to the grids...draw everything out and this becomes apparent.

Anyway, if this is ever proven to be right...you all read it here first and I'll take credit If it is proven wrong, then just remember I posted this disclaimer above: I don't know if it is true.

I have some evidence to back this belief but am focus on other things so I can't explore this more at the moment. Anyway, if anyone wants to look into it more, read the person that actually knows how to explain it because Leedskalnin leaves a whole lot out and also, through the eyes of a carpenter, the whole world is a nail and Leedskalnin thinks everything is from the magnetic current world. It is NOT. It is simply the inverse/opposite to the electron current world. I don't mean magnetic field, literally magnetic current when it is moving over a wire. The person that does explain it as it is in my opinion is: Felix Ehrenhaft: Magnetic Current --- 9 articles Felix Ehrenhaf
I'd recommend copying that page locally in case it disappears.

Moving voltage away perpendicularly from the wire instead of down the wire to force magnetic to move over wire since it switches 90 degrees is one way to get (one type of - implying there are others) cold electricity and this one is no voltage with current (cold magnetic current).

The other cold electricity is cold voltage potential without current...like in the Bedini circuits.

There is another way to get cold electricity but that is something else altogether...at least how to make it.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-25-2008, 04:17 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
tube insulator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
You could also insulate grids. Maybe with delrin, even ;-) I'm 100% serious.
Do you mean the actual grids themselves or the tube? I see the entire tube as a dielectric insulator to lock in the pressure so that it is all focused out a tiny exit on the wire leaving the grids.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-25-2008, 06:17 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
Aaron did you sharpen the high voltage electrode into a point, and leave the low voltage electrode's end flat? This greatly improves the plasma or corona discharge.
Corona Discharge- An electrical discharge characterized by a corona and occurring when one of two electrodes in a gas has a shape causing the electric field at its surface to be significantly greater than that between the electrodes.

By sharpening the high voltage electrode, my switching tube went from a sputtering small, every-once-in-a-while, to a flame like glowing arc. Its now making a sound, like when someone exhales air forcefully.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-25-2008, 06:29 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
tips of rods

Hi Beshires,

Both are cone shaped with rounded tips.

Supposedly Gray had rounded tips on both and that is what Bedini showed on his notes.

It will be a bit before I can run any tests to try what you mention to see what the effects are.

One thing I will definitely want to do is to blow torch melt some silver coating over both tips.

I would use a carbon resistor to see the difference of that as well but couldn't get any large enough diameter carbon rod to drill out and slip over the rod.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-25-2008, 07:00 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
Aaron you might try to source some DC electric motor brushes for a carbon block large enough to drill and use. Also you could modify a spark plug. By carefully cutting off the metal (threaded part and hex sides) the electrode is encased in ceramic. the electrode is in two pieces a hardened steel on the top (where the wire connects) and separated by carbon the electrode tip is I guess tungsten. (Its non Magnetic).
__________________
 

Last edited by Beshires1; 11-25-2008 at 07:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-25-2008, 12:18 PM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post

I would use a carbon resistor to see the difference of that as well but couldn't get any large enough diameter carbon rod to drill out and slip over the rod.
The sae here, I also did not find any carbon rods big enough in diameter to use for my Gray tube project. I had to work whit what I had - a carbon rod from a 1.5V cylinder battery, it is 8mm in diameter. But I think that Beshires1 is right, because you can get much bigger pieced of carbon from motor brushes
Also thank you for your summary, lust like Greg, I finnaly understood what you mean when you say that the high voltage actually goes through the diode. And the analogy with the compressed baloon is great, makes sense to me This is exciting.
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-25-2008, 09:39 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
Gray Tube concept demo

I posted this vid last night from some clips I shot right after I made that tube. I have more but they're all unorganized so for. I'll post more later.

Here is one:
YouTube - Gray Tube Demonstration Proof of Concept

That shows the HV moving backwards through the diode back to ground.

Jetijs, you can do this very, very simple test. On ANY spark plug circuit you make..plasma or not... from the ground of the spark plug, which goes back to ground....in between the plug ground and ground of the circuit...place a HV diode right there with the cathode touching the ground of the plug... some would think it would never run but if you do that, you'll see that the HV has no problem getting to ground going backwards through the diode.

Anyway, enjoy the vid and I hope it is useful. I originally did that particular vid because I saw comments in other forums about Luc's spark method claiming that the HV jumps the gap first, ionizes the air then the caps discharge over the gap. They didn't realize that actually it jumps backwards through the diode from the caps seeking ground since it is a lower resistance path...then the diode shuts off and it has nowhere to go but the spark gap on the plug.

Even in the Suckewer and NASA patents, etc... and other plasma patents with the mixing of HV and LV, it is apparent none of them understand what is happening here....or they do but they simply don't want people to know what the deal is.

Thanks you both for the tips on the carbon blocks on motor brushes.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-25-2008, 11:38 PM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
Aaron ,
This may sound stupid of me to ask, But do you send the high voltage AC (from the transformer)through a bridge rectifier and then send the High voltage DC into the tube as Gray states he does in the patents? If I can remember correctly the RMS Output from a transformer is multiplied X 1.414 to give you the DC output. And I don't think any transformer this includes ignition coils outputs DC current unless it has a built in bridge rectifier, or power inverter.The reason I ask is I haven't seen any vids from anyone showing this.
__________________
 

Last edited by Beshires1; 11-25-2008 at 11:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-26-2008, 12:27 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
transformer charging

Hi Beshires,

Yes with the cap discharge into the tube. I have dumped up to 1000v into it. Wall AC into microwave transformer, HV output through bridge for HV DC. That HV DC charges cap bank and the positive of that cap bank is attached to the HV rod in the tube. The circuit is connected with a copper switch on the negative side between the low voltage source negative and the hv cap bank negative. When that switch is connected, hv cap bank jumps gap into the diode towards lv source and back to hv cap ground.

If the grid is connected to coil and coil goes back to ground - by one of several possible way (direct to hv neg, on neg of lv source, etc...) then as soon as switch is connected the hv potential quickly causes diode to slam shut then take the route to the grids, through inductor back to ground.

IF that hv source actually has some charge like the booster cap in the water sparkplug circuit, then that LV source [may] discharge over the grid through inductor and back to ground giving a super enhanced effect. It is possible Gray's battery on the low voltage side followed the HV but again, I have had the bare basic small effect of pulsing the coil and repelling a magnet (coil that had a core on it - magnet is regular rectangle ceramic magnet) - and there was nothing in the lv side...just an empty polarized cap.

With ignition coil discharge into the tube it is just like in the video.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-26-2008, 12:28 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
hv diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beshires1 View Post
And I don't think any transformer this includes ignition coils outputs DC current unless it has a built in bridge rectifier, or power inverter.
I have had the same results having a HV diode coming out of the ignition coil HV...I didn't see a difference.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-26-2008, 09:50 AM
nat1971a's Avatar
nat1971a nat1971a is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 670
YouTube - TESLA'S RADIANT ENERGY WIRELESS TRANSMISSION - UPDATE 19 /EDWIN GRAY HYBRID CIRCUIT


This is a hybrid edwin gray / tesla wireless transmission system.....

conversion tube lights cfls wirelessly!!
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-27-2008, 10:09 AM
Jules Tresor's Avatar
Jules Tresor Jules Tresor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 364
Very good explanation Aaron !

Hi Aaron,

Congratulations for your latest videos and work on Edwin Gray's tubes !

Your explanation is great !

However I have a question:
Why don't we put the diode INSIDE the grids to collect the slaming of the HV ?
Must the diode(s) be placed parallel to the grid ?
Is it a modification that could improve the Plasma Spark Plug system ?

Illustrated on this drawing:
http://tesla3.com/energy/images/zpe_...mpression1.gif

Thanks for your hard work!

MDG
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-27-2008, 02:59 PM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
stephenafreter
Quote:
However I have a question:
Why don't we put the diode INSIDE the grids to collect the slaming of the HV ?
Must the diode(s) be placed parallel to the grid ?
Is it a modification that could improve the Plasma Spark Plug system ?
I think it can be explained this way. The low voltage potential is present on both sides of the diode. The high voltage sees the low voltage potential as a path to ground and jumps the gap to the low V electrode. The diode slams shut, the Spark then jumps to the grid seeking the next available ground source (through the motor coils). This action is suppose to provide the low voltage potential a path to follow to the grids. The low voltage spark is harder to start and generally requires help such as the spark created when contact points break a circuit. The high voltage doesn't energize the motor coil, its the attached low voltage potiental that does the work.The diode can be two feet from the tube, setting there like a glass full to the rim of cold water, If you try to pour in some hot water, warm water will overflow the sides of the glass. This happens at the top, open end of the glass of cold water not the bottom. Do you see my point?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-27-2008, 04:38 PM
boguslaw's Avatar
boguslaw boguslaw is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beshires1 View Post
stephenafreter


I think it can be explained this way. The low voltage potential is present on both sides of the diode. The high voltage sees the low voltage potential as a path to ground and jumps the gap to the low V electrode. The diode slams shut, the Spark then jumps to the grid seeking the next available ground source (through the motor coils). This action is suppose to provide the low voltage potential a path to follow to the grids. The low voltage spark is harder to start and generally requires help such as the spark created when contact points break a circuit. The high voltage doesn't energize the motor coil, its the attached low voltage potiental that does the work.The diode can be two feet from the tube, setting there like a glass full to the rim of cold water, If you try to pour in some hot water, warm water will overflow the sides of the glass. This happens at the top, open end of the glass of cold water not the bottom. Do you see my point?
The most important question is now : did Gray used the same circuit for power small TV set as for his motor ?

If so then your assumption is correct, but if he used some special or additional element for powering TV from his tube then your assumption is completely wrong and he utilized radiant energy.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION NOW, because it could explain the if cold electricity is the same which Tesla discovered and all pieces should "click" in proper positions into this puzzle set.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-27-2008, 05:01 PM
boguslaw's Avatar
boguslaw boguslaw is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenafreter View Post
Hi Aaron,

Congratulations for your latest videos and work on Edwin Gray's tubes !

Your explanation is great !

However I have a question:
Why don't we put the diode INSIDE the grids to collect the slaming of the HV ?
Must the diode(s) be placed parallel to the grid ?
Is it a modification that could improve the Plasma Spark Plug system ?

Illustrated on this drawing:
http://tesla3.com/energy/images/zpe_...mpression1.gif

Thanks for your hard work!

MDG
I proposed some time ago that Gray tube could be done as a one element tube. Now I think that it was done and such vacuum tube existed ! Maybe it is even available somehow today as a part for old radar equipment ???
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-27-2008, 08:33 PM
zpf69 zpf69 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4
Relaxation time and materials

I had been reading, studing, and expermienting for quite a while now and it seems to me that the carbon on the LV side is to slow down the relaxation time. Lets say for instance, that we have an extremelly fast relaxation time material (coper) on the HV side and a slow relaxation time material (iron) on the LV side. When a spark happens it will take a diferential time from one side to potentialize with respect to the other. If the time it takes is less than the reaction time of the reversed biased diode, then conduction will not happen at all on the LV side. Nevertheless, the spark has been initiated and electrons have been accelerated, and then stopped (slammed) against the LV electrode. At that point, i would not be surprised if one or more electrons dissociate and a very strong scalar wave is formed. As the scalar wave crosses the cooper collection grid the electrons on the copper get potentialised and start flowing. It would be like a small nuclear explosion.

There is a lot of expermientation to verify that what I am saying is true or not, and of course to find the real process. Anyways, I thought I might be able to contribute a little. I like very much this forum, and I bveleive that these is the best way of going about new energy.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-29-2008, 12:49 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
Gray Tube Test

Here is a video around the same time that I finished that tube.

YouTube - Gray Tube Test

It is similar to Luc's water sparkplug circuit.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-29-2008, 12:54 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,479
Gray circuits

Hi MDG,

I think Beshires may have answered it along the lines of how I see it.

Also, with the TV cirucits, etc... that Gray powered, Imhotep's project is the closest to what he was doing. I would highly recommend anyone pay close attention to what is happening in both of Imhotep's threads.

The application of that in relation to the Gray tube for powering a motor in my opinion is that the HV cap is radiantly charged like a kicker coil charging a cap. The discharge from radiantly charged caps are MUCH MUCH different and more powerful than a cap charged hot.

The Imhotep circuits I believe are along the lines of how Gray was charging the HV cap.

If electrons on the grid come into play, if they start moving, they would be moving towards the rods to go towards a positive potential. I don't know if electron movement is even necessary.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-29-2008, 03:26 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
Aaron Murakami

Have you tried to energize a small coil? I am planning on removing the cover from a accessory relay, and attaching the output from the grids, to the connectors across the coil. Grid to 85 and 86 to ground. Removing the relays cover will give you a visual, and make this easier to document on video. My progress is slow write now. I have to get another ignition coil, the 30 year old one I had is dying. Would you care to try this and post the results? By the way great videos! It sounds like you are using a emergency flasher to pulse the ignition coil?
__________________
 

Last edited by Beshires1; 11-29-2008 at 03:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

For One-Time Donations, use admin@ this domain > energeticforum.com

Choose your voluntary subscription

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers