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  #2671  
Old 06-03-2012, 06:39 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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The Truth is in Experimentation

Dear Leonid,

I agree with you on all points. Experimentation is where its at.

I took a quick look at your blog. You guys are into some real serious stuff. Graphs, equations, Smith Charts, drawings, resonate cavaties, photos, and interesting commentary.

Perhaps you could answer me a question about all your collective efforts. I see you are dealing with various sourts of high frequency systems. From my historical research what ever the E.V. Gray technology did it was able to generate "something" that could be stored in a capacitor for at least 30 milliseconds. This "something" could then be discharged through opposing coils to generate forces 1000X greater than classical electron flow.

Is there (so far) anything in any of your demonstration setups that can generate a novel energy that can be stored in a capacitor (this suggests a particles of some sort)? If so I would appreciate a specifice page reference to the vast blog material your group has posted.

As for me, I'm expermenting with a reproduction of the 1989 Dollard-Lindemann-Browne experiment, "Transverse and Longitudinal Electric Waves" from Boarderlands Research. In one part of this 45 minute video they demonstrated a process that charged a door knob capacitor at a short distance with enough energy to flash a NE-2 neon lamp after a few seconds of exposure. Now this is the kind of thing I'm looking for.

The interesting thing is that the circuit they used shared about 70% of the circuit components that appear to exsist in what I have been able to determine existed in the original Gray Electrostatic Generator power supply.

The exact equipment used in 1989 is proving hard to get, but the main component (the 1920 Fischer Diathermy Machine) has been acquired.

I shall post all the experimental results and construction details on the Eric P. Dollard thread of this Forum. But with the Bedini Convention coming up I will not get a lot done until the middle of July.

Best of luck to all you guys in Russia working of this Free Energy challenge. It is a pleasure sharing thoughts with individuals who can think out side of the acedemic box.

Mark McKay
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  #2672  
Old 06-03-2012, 07:48 PM
wonju wonju is offline
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Mr. Volkov

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvleon View Post
Dears Mark McKay and Aaron Murakami!

If you are interested to know, where does "free" energy - we can provide the program for practical training the basic principles of resonance extract free energy from the ether (physical vacuum), that includes schemas of the simple set of demonstration devices, registrars diagrams, waveforms, photo, etc.
The results of all of our tests are extraordinary and reproducible.
Mr. Volkov,
I visited the website in the linked provided by you and it is not in English. Do you have the information you refer to in English version? I am interested in reviewing your work. Thanks for your positive contribution!!!

Regards,
Wonju
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Last edited by wonju; 06-04-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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  #2673  
Old 06-04-2012, 03:41 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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A short review

[QUOTE=wonju;196273]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvleon View Post
Dears Mark McKay and Aaron Murakami!


If you are interested to know, where does "free" energy - we can provide the program for practical training the basic principles of resonance extract free energy from the ether (physical vacuum), that includes schemas of the simple set of demonstration devices, registrars diagrams, waveforms, photo, etc.
The results of all of our tests are extraordinary and reproducible.

Mr. Volkov,
I visited the website in the linked provided by you and it is not in English. Do you have the information you refer to in English version? I am interested in reviewing your work. Thanks for your positive contribution!!!

Regards,
Wonju
Dear Wonju,

I followed your links as best I could. I scanned the document Tesla-Gray-Mark-Meyer R04.pdf and then looked at the Tesla patent 568176.

What I saw was about 6 modified and annotated Gray 1986 CEST patent schematics, a few spark plug drawings, and about 7 pages of detailed theory that explain the schematics.

Then I looked at the Tesla patent.

This certainly is a good start and for all I know that Tesla patent is vital to this technology.

What I was looking for was an experimental hardware setup (photos) to prove these assertions. Some data, some graphs, perhaps an equation or two. At least an analysis of the instrumentation used and a discussion about instrument error.

Perhaps I missed the links to this vital material?

I can't really comment on you fine work until I can review "The good stuff". Could you post some more links to your hardware approach and experimetal data that form the foundations for your proposed theory?

Obviously you put a lot of work into you position paper. Keep up the good work.

Mark McKay
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  #2674  
Old 06-06-2012, 10:04 AM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonju View Post
Mr. Volkov,
I visited the website in the linked provided by you and it is not in English. Do you have the information you refer to in English version? I am interested in reviewing your work. Thanks for your positive contribution!!!

Regards,
Wonju
Dear wonju!
The site, to which I gave a link- Russian, so it all correspondence is in Russian.

Nowadays, thanks to the "GOOGLE" you can to read websites in the languages of many nations of the world.

Machine-translation of "Google" is not really ideal, yet in most cases, meaning you can understand written.

If your browser is not able to connect the automatic translation of the pages - I give you the same link along with a translator GOOGLE pages

Google

Yours faithfully
Leonid Volkov (lvleon)
Zaporozhye, Ukraine
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Last edited by lvleon; 07-27-2013 at 03:22 AM.
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  #2675  
Old 06-07-2012, 01:48 AM
wonju wonju is offline
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@Leonid
Thank you very much!

@spokane1:
As stated in the document, I am in the process of building a set up to test Mr. Gray's circuit. I posted the article because I wanted to discuss what could be a possible explanation for how the circuit works. It is not written in stone, but it makes sense because it makes logical connections of existing (proven) data. I think there is enough published (proved) data for us to make connections and look for patterns. I can construct a model of a system based on published data. For this, I do not have to wait until I complete the experiment.

It is ok to disagree. However, because I consider the attitude to be a main factor when attempting to solve a riddle, please, disagree in a respectful and professional manner. If you want to argue against the document, just present the facts. By facts I mean test results performed by you or someone else, mathematical or logical statements, etc. For instance, in the document I refer to results of experiments published in books and events found in old TV equipment. It is not enough to quote someone such as "Mr. XXX says that... is not possible to..." Or "None knows...", etc. Just because we do not see the information we are looking for in the public domain, it does not imply that someone out there might not know the answer.

I think that the goal of these forums is not to gain individual "power", but to form a team working on a common goal.

FYI. I just bought a 15KV transformer. I want to build a power supply that the voltage, frequency and duty cycle of the pulses can be adjusted. I would really appreciate any help or information you may provide. I am having issues building a solid state driver to control the DC pulses.

Thanks.
Wonju
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  #2676  
Old 06-07-2012, 06:55 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Eric Dollard posted some info on the Gray tube:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
(II) How many untold millions of Kilo-watt hours of human energy have been "pissed down the bowl" on yet another useless "Grey Tube replication", how many? It verily exceeds human understanding, like the Grey tube itself. Well golly be, now it is found out that it was already made by the British Radar effort of World War Whatever (WWW). It is called the CV-125. Let's see if we can find it on e-bay!
You can find this thing online:
REL38C / CV125

CV 125, Tube CV125; Röhre CV 125 ID27737, SPECIAL TUBE, othe
Quote:
Identical to CV125 = V2024 = 24C3 = REL38C

Trigatron Spark Gap - used for discharging delay line. Three-electrode spark gap, the third electrode being used as trigger. Anode and cathode are of molybdenum, while the trigger pin is of tungsten. The tube is filled with a mixture of argon and some 5% oxigen, as quenching element.
500KW peak pulses, 1us pulse lenght, 12KV; 800 pps. Used in H2S and ASV.
REL 38C, Tube REL38C; Röhre REL 38C ID37963, MICROWAVE AND R

V 2024, Tube V2024; Röhre V 2024 ID27738, SPECIAL TUBE, othe

24C3, Tube 24C3; Röhre 24C3 ID27739, MICROWAVE AND RADAR, ge
Quote:
Trigatron Spark Gap - used for discharging 80 ohm delay line.
Typically 800, 1 microsecond pulses per sec. Peak power 530kW.
STC and Mazda are known manufacturers.
So, according to Dollard, the Gray tube is a Trigatron:

http://www.tubecollector.org/trigatron.htm
Quote:
A trigatron is a triggered spark gap which is typically used in radar modulators to feed the large pulse necessary to a magnetron. Trigatrons operate either in air or are sealed.

It consists of three electrodes, two of similar size, one of which has a third electrode held in a hole drilled through its middle. The undrilled electrode is negative with respect to the other two. The other two are normally at the same potential. When a trigger pulse is applied to the trigger electrode it causes the main electrodes to conduct.

Open air trigatrons could not be used at the low pressures encountered at high altitudes. After experiments with construction techniques and gas mixes a filling of a pressurised argon/oxygen mixture was selected with approximately 93% argon and 7% oxygen.

Trigatron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
A trigatron is a type of triggerable spark gap switch designed for high current and high voltage, (usually 10-100 kV and 20-100 kA, though devices in the mega-ampere range exist as well). It has very simple construction and in many cases is the lowest cost high energy switching option. It may operate in open air, it may be sealed, or it may be filled with a dielectric gas other than air. The dielectric gas may be pressurized, or a liquid dielectric (e.g. mineral oil) may be substituted to further extend the operating voltage. Trigatrons may be rated for repeated use (over 10,000 switching cycles), or they may be single-shot, destroyed in a single use.
Sparkgaps

Ferranti CC11 Triggered spark gap tube. (2" long)


Pulse Power Switching Devices
Quote:
v) Trigatron: trigger to one electrode current forms plasma that spreads to encompass a path between anode and cathode. Trigatron Photo & data

The triggered Spark gap may be filled with a wide variety of materials, the most common are- 1) Air 2) SF6 3) Argon 4) Oxygen Often a mixture of the above materials is employed. However a few spark gaps actually employ liquid or even solid media fillings. Solid filled devices are often designed for single shot use (they are only used once- then they are destroyed) Some solid filled devices are designed to switch powers of 10TW (10 000 000 000 000 Watts) such as are encountered in extremely powerful capacitor bank discharges.

Except (obviously) in the case of solid filled devices, the media is usually pumped through the spark gap. Some smaller gaps do not use this system though. Usually Gas filled spark gasp operate in the 20-100kV / 20 to 100kA range though much higher power devices are available. I have one spec for a Maxwell gas filled device that can handle 3 MA - that's 3 Million Amperes! But then it is the size of a small car!! More commonly gas filled devices have dimensions of a few inches. Packages are often shaped like large ice pucks though biconical, tubular and box like structures are also seen.

Sparkgaps are often designed for use in a certain external environment(eg. they might be immersed in oil). A system for transmitting the media to the appropriate part of the device may sometimes be included. Common environments used are: a)Air b)SF6 c)Oil Typical spark gap device no.'s are: TG7, TG113, TG 114 etc. etc. Spark gaps are damaged by repeated heavy discharge. This is an inevitable consequence of such high discharge currents. Electrode pitting being the most common form of damage. Between 1 and 10 thousand shots per device is usually about what is permissible before damage begins to severely degrade performance. EG&G make miniature triggered spark gaps specially designed for defense applications. these devices are physically much smaller than normal spark gaps (few cm typical dimensions) and designed for use with exploding foil slapper type detonators.

Laser switching of spark gaps. The fastest way to switch a triggered spark gap is with an intense pulse of Laser light which creates a plasma between the electrodes with extreme rapidity. There have been quite a few designs employing this method, chiefly in the plasma research area. Triggered spark gaps tend to have long delay times than Thyratrons (their chief competitor, at least at lower energies) However once conduction has started it reaches a peak value exceptionally rapidly (couple of nanoseconds commutation.)

TRIGATRON


Quote:
A trigatron is a high current, high power, high voltage spark-gap switch. You use a trigatron when you are switching several thousand volts at several thousand amps. You use a trigatron when you've exploded and caught fire to every other switching device or semiconductor known to man. So you might think that a trigatron would not be used in a whole lot of situations, well you are right. But, if you are among the insane or just an idiot like me you might just need one. You might need a trigatron if you are wanting to shrink quarters, or launch a disc into space, or produce an EMF so large that it shuts down a block's worth of integrated circuits and other electronic goods. You might want a trigatron to explode things with a few kJ of capacitor bank energy. You might want one to see what items in your refrigerator can sustain a few mega-watts of power. You might want a trigatron if you have a capacitor the size of a dog house. But you also just might want one because they are cool and have the phrase 'tron' in them.

[...]

The trigatron is a three electrode spark-gap switch. Two of the electrodes are for the switching paths, the third is for the trigger transformer. The two switching electrodes are facing each other and the trigger electrode sticks right in the middle of the two. The trigger transformer generates a high voltage pulse that ionizes a thin path of gas between the two switching electrodes. This ion trail provides a low resistance path for the main current to pass through.


A datasheet for the 24C3 can be found here:
http://www.tubebbs.com/tubedata/sheets/147/2/24C3.pdf
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  #2677  
Old 06-07-2012, 07:05 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Sparkgaps

Ferranti CC11 Triggered spark gap tube. (2" long)

This makes sense.

A HV capacitar bank suddenly discharged into a coil trough a heavy duty spark gap, which is triggered by the needle shaped electrode.


So, you FIRST get the electric field propagating in the shape of a longitudinal dielectric shock wave at a speed of pi/2 times c along the lines Wheatstone investigated ( Tuks DrippingPedia : Wheatstone Experiments To Measure The Velocity Of Electricity ).

That gives you a strong magnetic field in your coil, along Maxwell Ampere:
Maxwell's equations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Ampre's law with Maxwell's correction states that magnetic fields can be generated in two ways: by electrical current (this was the original "Ampre's law") and by changing electric fields (this was "Maxwell's correction").
So, the extreme electric field pulse caused by the HV discharge of the cap bank into the coil trough a spark gap gives you a magnetic field you can use for free. In other words: the electric field gives you this part of the energy for free. See my article at pes:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Only AFTER the field has done it's thing, you get the actual discharge of the cap bank, that is, currents flowing. And that is the part you have to pay for in terms of energy.

In principle, you can recapture that energy along the lines Bedini did and some extra as well, because the EMF generated by the field pulse also contains energy of course. However, you get into trouble with your batteries, because the longitudinal shock wave reaches your plates and that causes chemical changes on the battery plates, which makes them "cold boil" (electrolyses, generating H and O2 gas) and makes them hard to charge with normal current afterwards. See the Electret Effect part in my article:

Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki


Update:

More on triggered spark gaps here:
Triggered Spark Gap

Here's an interesting archive page on a home-made one:
sgap


And a modern one:
TSG - Triggered Spark Gap

And an application note pdf:
http://www.highenergydevices.com/www...n/AN-TG-10.pdf


Triggered spark gaps
Quote:
Triggered spark gaps are very popular as fast high current switches. With proper design, a triggered spark gap can switch megawatts of power in a few microseconds, with jitters of less than a nanosecond. These devices make use of the very low impedance of an arc once the arc is established. Two electrodes are separated by sufficient distance that the gap doesn't spontaneously break down. The breakdown is initiated by a variety of means: UV irradiation from another spark or a laser, an overvoltage pulse, or reducing the gas pressure in the gap.

There is a lot of similarity to a xenon flash tube here. In a triggered spark gap, the idea is to switch a lot of current at high voltage, so the arc characteristics are optimized for that. In a flash tube, the idea is to generate light, so the design is optimized for that (i.e. use xenon (high lumens/watt), a long path (limit watts/volume), etc).

And it turns out I have a patent about triggered spark gaps on my site, which happens to be in the Gray patent directory. I don't remember why I put it there, but most likely I collected some patents that were referred to in Gray's patents:

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Gray/...US4198590A.pdf

Last edited by lamare; 06-07-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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  #2678  
Old 06-07-2012, 09:24 AM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
Dear Leonid,

I agree with you on all points. Experimentation is where its at.

I took a quick look at your blog. You guys are into some real serious stuff. Graphs, equations, Smith Charts, drawings, resonate cavaties, photos, and interesting commentary.
.................................................. .................................................. ..

Best of luck to all you guys in Russia working of this Free Energy challenge. It is a pleasure sharing thoughts with individuals who can think out side of the acedemic box.

Mark McKay
Thank you!

Quote:
Perhaps you could answer me a question about all your collective efforts. I see you are dealing with various sourts of high frequency systems. From my historical research what ever the E.V. Gray technology did it was able to generate "something" that could be stored in a capacitor for at least 30 milliseconds. This "something" could then be discharged through opposing coils to generate forces 1000X greater than classical electron flow.
Dear Mark! All our achievements became possible only thanks to your the expert research Creative Heritage E.V. Gray and his сolleagues!
I hope you noticed that on our blog published my translation of your works, your research characteristics of power sources and electric motors, published photos in your personal archive, as well as photo, uploaded on the site of Eric Dollard, published in the "Μanual Guide" P. Kelly, etc. These materials have become the basis of all our research.

The keys to solving the "secret" technology to produce free energy of Edwin Gray steel:

1) One chapter of your research called "POPPING COIL", which appeared in all editions of the "Μanual Guide" P. Kelly;

2) Your research either of neon lamps (NST) Edwin Gray used in their experiments;

3) Photographs CEST E.V. Gray in glass flasks installed in source powering EMA-6;

4) The results of our research on the material properties of the environment.

Your compendium of heritage Gray published in the chapter "POPPING COIL", has enabled us to conclude that the effect of strengthening the magnetic interaction between the two windings, discovered by E.V. Grey, DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE SCHEME RECEIVING so-called "COLD ELECTRICITY"

On the demonstration stands of E.V. Gray had posted a variety of COLD CURRENT SOURSES based at TRANSFORMER TESLA, to source, manufactured on the basis of conventional transformer to power the neon gas-discharge tubes, which are connected to the diode, capacitor, as well as a black box, which was hiding CEST.

At all these experiments E.V. Gray and his team It took many years.
It is not offset to a standstill until E.V Gray found a new neon gas-discharge tube power supply inverter type (NST).

Half a year ago your research of the NST had before in this forum in a number of Lectures, starting with Lecture 1: (http://www.energeticforum.com/167666-post2491.html)

It should be noted that the low power of the NST inverter type was not hit any of the demo-video of E.V. Gray!

However, after E.V. Gray and his team test it, they are very quickly develops and brings to the test sample a whole new motor engine rated at 100 kW, which are used to power batteries, three powerful non-standard inverter type voltage converter, and three CEST placed in glass bulb filled with hydrogen.

See Forum strangers :: Topic: Theory (2/37)

Question: So what was so special about NST inverter type that command Gray and used for power supply of experienced powerful pulse motor?

Quote from your lectures:

Quote:
In 1976 Richard Hackenberger had an interesting phone conversation with GD (recorded) about the manufgacturing details of the Electrostatic Generator. This is after Hack had three years to dig into the Free Energy Technology that had been left behind by Marvin Cole. Richard was explaining to the non-technical GD how the custom inverter transformer was the heart of this technology. In previous writings he had discussed how he thought some kind of interaction with an electric arc and the oxygen in the air was responsible for the observed energy gains in the systems that he was hired to advance. This certainly makes sense since it is the power transformer that provides the proper form of excitation energy to get the non-classical event to take place.
..................
10. In 1979 Mr. Hackenberger developed a power supply along the same lines as one described above that had two outputs and only one transformer. Electrically this would be an equivalent approach.

11. The transformer could operate at audio frequencies since the advanced Electrostatic Generator was tested and observed to operate at 8 KHz.

12. Mr. Hackenberger disclosed to GD that if the load were removed from the advanced Electrostatic Generator it would be the same as turning off the power switch. This implies that the load is in series with the supply battery. There are only a few oscillator circuits that can operate this way. This also suggests that the transformer may have been more along the lines of an autotransformer rather than a classical power transformer with an isolated secondary. This would imply that the schematic for the Pulse Engine was misleading.
"This would imply that the schematic for the Pulse Engine was misleading".

A paradoxical conclusion!

After all, Hack said GD that inverter power source is the "heart" of their technology! And all of a sudden this unexpected conclusion ...

Dear Mark! Mr. Hackenberger said the real truth!

The inverter power source that allows you to establish and maintain appropriate the FREQUENCY of the pulse repetition for Proton NMR in hydrogen atoms in a magnetic field of the Earth - this is the "very great mystery" that so carefully concealed E. Gray and his team.

By varying the frequency of the NST, Gray and his team caught some frequencies in the audio range, where the output cold current of the converter of E.V. Grey rose by 35 or more dB!!!

E. Gray and his team were unable to find the cause of such a huge increase of cold current.

The moment of finding of the optimal frequencys of NST was the lightest holiday of the whole team of E. Gray.

But the same moment soon proved an insurmountable obstacle to the introduction of new technology.

Shortly after production of the prototype engine EMA-6 they was discovered that all found the "best" frequency of the inverter are not stable over time, and they all depend on geographical location of the source current.

(It is possible that a failed presentation engine EMA-6 before the Japanese delegation has been associated with that unpleasant moments).

You can easily verify that the frequency on which the conversion factor is energy-free, and more than 35 DB, actually exist.

For an experience you want to any sound generator with a VERY SMOOTH FREQUENCY SETTING (no worse than 0.1 Hz), transistor controlled key power source, (for powering primary windings of motor coil ignition), automobile ignition coil, high voltage wires - single piece about 4 m in length, two high-voltage Schottky Diode, high voltage capacitor, car candle.

(There are also others options scheme and others types of loads, in the design of tests are added to the appropriate panels).

The search for a resonant frequency peaks which must be current source of any air- (gas-) converter free energy is very difficult, (especially the first time). Because the width of the desired resonant peaks at 0.5 (linear scale) of less than 1 Hz!!!

Therefore, before you begin the experience I suggest you become familiar with the typical spectrum of precession protons, (the NMR spectrum in the hydrogen atoms), that is in log scale.

Forum strangers :: Topic: Theory (18/37)

The optimal frequency of NST are maximums peaks No. 8, No. 15, No. 31. (Don't forget that all these data were obtained for a specific location at a specific time. For your location at the time of the experiments of the above peaks would be different!)

THE OPERATING FREQUENCY OF THE INVERTER POWER SOURCE, METHOD OF MONITORING THIS FREQUENCY AND ITS STABILITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SECRET OF GRAY'S TECHNOLOGY. (NOT ONLY GREY'S TECHNOLOGY, BUT SMITH'S TECHNOLOGY, KAPANADZE'S TECHNOLOGY, AND ALL OTHER SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY!).

For illustration purposes, I built this spectrum in linear scale:

Forum strangers :: Topic: Theory (24/37)

Briefly on the spin generators-see:Forum strangers :: Topic: Literature (2/4)

Quote:
Is there (so far) anything in any of your demonstration setups that can generate a novel energy that can be stored in a capacitor (this suggests a particles of some sort)? If so I would appreciate a specifice page reference to the vast blog material your group has posted.
One possible scheme experience

Forum strangers :: Topic: Practical Results (6/16)

This simplified illustration. For smooth tuning frequency you can to add to the schema the multi-turn resistor.
As an essential element for schema LF-generator you can also use any MS of the series 555, 5555 ets.

The technical description of all experiments. See all posts by my colleague from the Russia Val_001 - Valery Ivanov - (St. Petersburg).

To be continued...

Yours faithfully
Leonid Volkov
Zaporozhye
Ukraine
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Last edited by lvleon; 07-27-2013 at 04:12 AM.
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  #2679  
Old 06-07-2012, 09:27 AM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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CONTINUED:

2)
Quote:
As for me, I'm expermenting with a reproduction of the 1989 Dollard-Lindemann-Browne experiment, "Transverse and Longitudinal Electric Waves" from Boarderlands Research. In one part of this 45 minute video they demonstrated a process that charged a door knob capacitor at a short distance with enough energy to flash a NE-2 neon lamp after a few seconds of exposure. Now this is the kind of thing I'm looking for.

The interesting thing is that the circuit they used shared about 70% of the circuit components that appear to exsist in what I have been able to determine existed in the original Gray Electrostatic Generator power supply.

The exact equipment used in 1989 is proving hard to get, but the main component (the 1920 Fischer Diathermy Machine) has been acquired.

I shall post all the experimental results and construction details on the Eric P. Dollard thread of this Forum. But with the Bedini Convention coming up I will not get a lot done until the middle of July.
Dear Mark! About the longitudinal, transverse, surface and standing waves, about the derailing of the oscillating process while check out "cold static electricity", etc.
Let us put off consideration of the topic
In the converter of Edwin Gray one by one all of the above are wave processes!

It seems to me that at this point the readers of this forum will be quite enough to explore a real LF spectrum protons NMR, to apply this knowledge for maximize output power Gray's converter in their geographic areas.

Any radio fan who wants to record the frequency spectrum of the precession protons in its geographic area, can easily build your Proton magnetometer.
See Google

3). About our plans for the near future.

Currently, I together with Valery Ivanov - we are conducting studies NMR and ESR in the gas atoms in the air, and atoms of copper with different polarities, under conditions as close as possible to the conditions of the live of the elementary atoms particles in the real free energy converters.
At the end of the experiments we will develop a practical course of laboratory works with the theoretical justification of all experiments in accordance with the programme of work, to which I referred earlier.

Yours faithfully
Leonid Volkov
Zaporozhye
Ukraine
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Last edited by lvleon; 06-07-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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  #2680  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:34 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvleon View Post


Any radio fan who wants to record the frequency spectrum of the precession protons in its geographic area, can easily build your Proton magnetometer.
See Google
I read there:

Quote:
Currently, there are quantum-mechanical approaches to the explanation of this phenomenon, and yet the classical explanation of the public, it is more receptive. The rotation of the charged particles always generates a magnetic field, so the proton can be represented as a kind of elementary mikromagnit. Application of an external magnetic field does not change the angular speed of the proton, but it causes fluctuations (precession) of its magnetic axis. Thus, the impact is balanced by an external magnetic field on the proton.
IMHO, whatever you do on the theory side, you have to ditch two theories:
1. Einstein relativity theory;
2. Quantum mechanics.

Einstein's theory is based on an error in the Maxwell equations. You can read all about that in my article:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Ruins 96 Years Einstein Relativity


Quantum mechanics is also flawed. I just discovered that this week in a discussion (in Dutch) with a professor, etc.:
Skepsis en Niburu op Windesheim over watergas

Insurance: Tuks Unsorted KieknWatTWordt Stuff : Discussie Kloptdatwel

I discussed the well known double slit experiment:
Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The infalling light is explained by Quantum Mechanics as consisting out of "photons" that are randomly emitted by electrons, that change orbit at *random* moments.

But, at the other side of the slits, we get a nice interference pattern. In other words: at the exit of the slits, we have two signals that are constantly in phase!

How on Earth can that be, if the incoming signals are not also in phase???

Answer: it can't.

And therefore, the incoming light *must* be in phase and thus cannot be the result of a random process and therefore QM is flawed.

What really happens with this experiment, IMHO, is that the light that is being emitted from an ordinary light source is IN PHASE, but of electromagnetic nature. It contains a magnetic, ROTATING component in the aether, which is what causes the observed quantization. And because of this rotational component and this quantization you do not get interference.

What happens at the slits, is that this rotational component is removed and after the slits we end up with a longitudinal light wave, WITHOUT magnetic component. And that is the one that DOES interfere.

During the discussion, one guy said that this theory was B.S. because interference can also be done with lasers, when they are tightly kept IN PHASE, which was my whole argument to begin with.

However, it turns out that lasers actually operate in LONGITUDINAL mode:

Laser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Some applications of lasers depend on a beam whose output power is constant over time. Such a laser is known as continuous wave (CW). Many types of lasers can be made to operate in continuous wave mode to satisfy such an application. Many of these lasers actually lase in several longitudinal modes at the same time, and beats between the slightly different optical frequencies of those oscillations will in fact produce amplitude variations on time scales shorter than the round-trip time (the reciprocal of the frequency spacing between modes), typically a few nanoseconds or less.
Longitudinal mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
A longitudinal mode of a resonant cavity is a particular standing wave pattern formed by waves confined in the cavity. The longitudinal modes correspond to the wavelengths of the wave which are reinforced by constructive interference after many reflections from the cavitys reflecting surfaces. All other wavelengths are suppressed by destructive interference.

A longitudinal mode pattern has its nodes located axially along the length of the cavity. Transverse modes, with nodes located perpendicular to the axis of the cavity, may also exist.

[...]

A common example of longitudinal modes are the light wavelengths produced by a laser. In the simplest case, the lasers optical cavity is formed by two opposed plane (flat) mirrors surrounding the gain medium (a plane-parallel or FabryProt cavity). The allowed modes of the cavity are those where the mirror separation distance L is equal to an exact multiple of half the wavelength, λ.

In other words, the ONLY theory that has thus far not been falsified is the good old aether theory....

Last edited by lamare; 12-19-2012 at 09:27 PM. Reason: typo; added insurance policy.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:00 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
As for me, I'm expermenting with a reproduction of the 1989 Dollard-Lindemann-Browne experiment, "Transverse and Longitudinal Electric Waves" from Boarderlands Research. In one part of this 45 minute video they demonstrated a process that charged a door knob capacitor at a short distance with enough energy to flash a NE-2 neon lamp after a few seconds of exposure. Now this is the kind of thing I'm looking for.

The interesting thing is that the circuit they used shared about 70% of the circuit components that appear to exsist in what I have been able to determine existed in the original Gray Electrostatic Generator power supply.

The exact equipment used in 1989 is proving hard to get, but the main component (the 1920 Fischer Diathermy Machine) has been acquired.

Creating longitudinal waves on an oscillating dipole is the easiest thing in the world, IMHO. Just take a standard dipole and operate it at pi/2 times it's natural resonance frequency with a standard radio transmitter.

The problems is most of all how to measure and detect longitudinal waves.

Turns out that all you need is an otherwise standard field intensity meter, but with a capacitive probe instead of an inductive probe.

Eric Dollard uses a simple beercan as probe:


That should work up to 100 MHz or so, I would guess, depending on the quality of your germanium diodes.

I am pretty sure that the dipole I used as probe in my attempt to make a longitudinal waveguide antenna actually did resonate in a longitudinal mode:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post176029


An important feature of a dipole resonating in longitudinal mode, is that it does not radiate energy away into space. The energy keeps on circulating around the dipole and thus you cannot use an SWR meter, because that one measures the amount of power radiated by the antenna compared to the amount of power fed to it by the transmitter.

And that is why my naked dipole appeared not to resonate (no power radiation) and why also nothing happened when I held the dipole in the open wave guide. Only when I inserted it into a waveguide with a bottom, which gives us a capacitive pickup, you would see power being radiated. And that happened because the capacitive bottom would pick up the energy, with which we could get the pipe itself into resonance and thus create a nice normal radiating antenna.


To make a long story short:

you need a capacitive probe if you want to measure anything longitudinal.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:06 PM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
I read there:



IMHO, whatever you do on the theory side, you have to ditch two theories:
1. Einstein relativity theory;
2. Quantum mechanics.

Einstein's theory is based on an error in the Maxwell equations. You can read all about that in my article:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Ruins 96 Years Einstein Relativity


Quantum mechanics is also flawed. I just discovered that this week in a discussion (in Dutch) with a professor, etc.:
Skepsis en Niburu op Windesheim over watergas

I discussed the well known double slit experiment:
Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The infalling light is explained by Quantum Mechanics as consisting out of "photons" that are randomly emitted by electrons, that change orbit at *random* moments.

But, at the other side of the slits, we get a nice interference pattern. In other words: at the exit of the slits, we have two signals that are constantly in phase!

How on Earth can that be, if the incoming signals are not also in phase???

Answer: it can't.

And therefore, the incoming light *must* be in phase and thus cannot be the result of a random process and therefore QM is flawed.

That really happens with this experiment, IMHO, is that the light that is being emitted from an ordinary light source is IN PHASE, but of electromagnetic nature. It contains a magnetic, ROTATING component in the aether, which is what causes the observed quantization. And because of this rotational component and this quantization you do not get interference.

What happens at the slits, is that this rotational component is removed and after the slits we end up with a longitudinal light wave, WITHOUT magnetic component. And that is the one that DOES interfere.

During the discussion, one guy said that this theory was B.S. because interference can also be done with lasers, when they are tightly kept IN PHASE, which was my whole argument to begin with.

However, it turns out that lasers actually operate in LONGITUDINAL mode:

Laser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Longitudinal mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




In other words, the ONLY theory that has thus far not been falsified is the good old aether theory....
Dear lamare!

1) A material that you have carefully examined - it's my translation to Russian language multiple messages with the american site AOL Lifestream : Login , which informed the public about the american educational project "Βackyard".
This site has worked extensively in the nineties - twothousands years, at a time when the North and South poles of the planet Earth is moved, and quite significantly.
After the relative calming of magnetic poles of the Earth financing the american educational project "Backyard" ceased and the site of the project was closed.
So don't reprimand ...

However, the Proton magnetometers, built on these schemes really work!

2) About quantum mechanics.

The theoretical basis of Edwin Gray converter is a Quantum mechanics of Feynman, that is largely inconsistent with the theory of relativity.

At least, the operating frequency of the converter of Edwin Gray is equal to the operating frequency of the hydrogen MASER, which Feynman determined with a precision of up to 13 significant figures.

Description of all transition processes which take place in the converter gray (a priori, which is an open system) is a task much more difficult.

Its today successfully solve such theorists as Woodpeckers, rykov and many other supporters of essential theories.

If you are interested in the theoretical part of the work - visit our blog at:

Google

There you'll find my basic premises with links to many literary sources that refute the theory Einstein, etc.

2) Dear lamare! I do not wish to develop deep theoretical discussions on the site dedicated to the restoration and operation of the invention of Edwin Gray.

Today we know, (with high accurately), ALL resonance frequencies - low, high and super-high, on which are flow a different processes in the converter of Edwin Gray, we are aware of all their relationships.

That was sufficient for implementation the invention of Edwin Gray, what we do together with Valery Ivanov (Val_001), Russia, with the great success.

We wish you no less success!

Yours faithfully
Leonid Volkov
Zaporozhye,
Ukraine
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:01 PM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Creating longitudinal waves on an oscillating dipole is the easiest thing in the world, IMHO. Just take a standard dipole and operate it at pi/2 times it's natural resonance frequency with a standard radio transmitter.

The problems is most of all how to measure and detect longitudinal waves.

Turns out that all you need is an otherwise standard field intensity meter, but with a capacitive probe instead of an inductive probe.

Eric Dollard uses a simple beercan as probe:


That should work up to 100 MHz or so, I would guess, depending on the quality of your germanium diodes.

I am pretty sure that the dipole I used as probe in my attempt to make a longitudinal waveguide antenna actually did resonate in a longitudinal mode:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post176029


An important feature of a dipole resonating in longitudinal mode, is that it does not radiate energy away into space. The energy keeps on circulating around the dipole and thus you cannot use an SWR meter, because that one measures the amount of power radiated by the antenna compared to the amount of power fed to it by the transmitter.

And that is why my naked dipole appeared not to resonate (no power radiation) and why also nothing happened when I held the dipole in the open wave guide. Only when I inserted it into a waveguide with a bottom, which gives us a capacitive pickup, you would see power being radiated. And that happened because the capacitive bottom would pick up the energy, with which we could get the pipe itself into resonance and thus create a nice normal radiating antenna.


To make a long story short:

you need a capacitive probe if you want to measure anything longitudinal.
Dear lamare!

The converter Gray L-wave really is the place to be, but it is a very short time - at the time of the passage of the sparks. After all, PROPERLY operating Gray's converter DON'T SHOULD ANYTHING TO RADIATE!!!

All the energy spin transitions, excited a strong pulse current of electrons, flying through central electrode, should be converted into a static COLD charge electrons with the inverse spin, i.e. the positrons, accumulated in the reservoir.

The Gray's converter is a inertia device, therefore, for enhance the utilization of the current pulse we need slow down longitudinal wave with a special slowing structures ...

But talking about it here early!

At least, better to made a simple experiments, and find the resonant frequencies of excitation the converter of Edwin Gray, which was find Mr. Hakenberger by experimentally, be sure that by these frequencies CPA of the Gray's converter increases by 35 or more dB ...

Yours faithfully
Leonid Volkov
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:37 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by lvleon View Post
Dear lamare!

1) A material that you have carefully examined - it's my translation to Russian language multiple messages with the american site AOL Lifestream : Login , which informed the public about the american educational project "Βackyard".
This site has worked extensively in the nineties - twothousands years, at a time when the North and South poles of the planet Earth is moved, and quite significantly.
After the relative calming of magnetic poles of the Earth financing the american educational project "Backyard" ceased and the site of the project was closed.
So don't reprimand ...

However, the Proton magnetometers, built on these schemes really work!
You can still access (parts of) it via the internet archive:

Proton Magnetometer:html

It seems it is also here: Magntomtre protons (schmas)


I can't say much about magnetics and resonances with the earth magnetic field.

It may very well be that you can perform interesting tricks with the magnetic field of the Earth.

I don't know.


Quote:

2) About quantum mechanics.

The theoretical basis of Edwin Gray converter is a Quantum mechanics of Feynman, that is largely NO inconsistent with the theory of relativity.

At least, the operating frequency of the converter of Edwin Gray is equal to the operating frequency of the hydrogen MASER, which Feynman determined with a precision of up to 13 significant figures.

Description of all transition processes which take place in the converter gray (a priori, which is an open system) is a task much more difficult.

Its today successfully solve such theorists as Woodpeckers, rykov and many other supporters of essential theories.
The point is:

Quantum mechanics says that the atoms are NOT resonating in harmony.

QM says that in the operation of lasers, masers, etc. EACH atom emits a "photon" RANDOMLY.

THAT is not correct.

The atoms work together in harmony..

The deeper theory about electron orbits, etc. is probably OK.


Quote:
If you are interested in the theoretical part of the work - visit our blog at:

Google ,

There you'll find my basic premises with links to many literary sources that refute the theory Einstein, etc.

2) Dear lamare! I do not wish to develop deep theoretical discussions on the site dedicated to the restoration and operation of the invention of Edwin Gray.

Today we know, (with high accurately), ALL resonance frequencies - low, high and super-high, on which are flow a different processes in the converter of Edwin Gray, we are aware of all their relationships.

That was sufficient for implementation the invention of Edwin Gray, what we do together with Valery Ivanov (Val_001), Russia, with the great success.

I am personally concentrating on researching longitudinal waves. It seems to me these may be an important aspect of the Gray device, so I shared some info on that and also what Eric Dollard said on the Gray tube. It may be helpful to you, it may not. If it does use longitudinal waves, then at least now you know how to measure them.

For discussing Einstein theory, there is a separate thread:
Why Einstein's relativity theory is plain wrong

I may start another one for Quantum Mechanics, but I did not have the time to really work all that out in a nice post. I just sketched the essentials, since it may be important in your work to realize that the atoms must be oscillating in harmony, just like electrons in a radio antenna.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:46 PM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
You can still access (parts of) it via the internet archive:

Proton Magnetometer:html

It seems it is also here: Magntomtre protons (schmas)

I can't say much about magnetics and resonances with the earth magnetic field.

It may very well be that you can perform interesting tricks with the magnetic field of the Earth.

I don't know.
Dear lamar!
1) I have the handbook "The Proton Magnetometer" which is placed in the Web archive, I have there are many other books and articles on this topic.
I'm introduced here the easiest option the Proton magnetometer, which you gave the second reference, (this is the abridged copy of the message with the original site, which had been closed in 2007). This is the option I have translated into Russian language added to it the image of the others sources, the comments, etc.
2) The theoretical basis of proton resonance is written very popular in course of lectures of Dr. Joseph P. Hornak "The Basics of MRI" (English, Italian, Russian).
The Basics of MRI

If you really are interested in Quantum magnetic measurements - we have a very good book three Russian authors "Physical basis of quantum magnetometry" (RUS)
Google

Try to translate it into English. - it's worth it!

Best wishes
Leonid Volkov
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:25 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Planned Experimentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonju View Post
@Leonid
Thank you very much!

@spokane1:
As stated in the document, I am in the process of building a set up to test Mr. Gray's circuit. I posted the article because I wanted to discuss what could be a possible explanation for how the circuit works. It is not written in stone, but it makes sense because it makes logical connections of existing (proven) data.

FYI. I just bought a 15KV transformer. I want to build a power supply that the voltage, frequency and duty cycle of the pulses can be adjusted. I would really appreciate any help or information you may provide.

Thanks.
Wonju
Dear Wonju,

O.K. now I am getting a better idea as to what you are doing. So, you have written this theory paper and are now in the process of building the apparatus to test the theory. In the mean time you would like a peer review of your concepts. Fair enough.

I'm not much of a theory person. I struggled with vector mechanics in college and failed EM theory on my first go around. (however I got an "A' in the laboratory). I feel like I don't really have the skill set you need to evaluate such a detailed composition. I'm sure there are forum members that do, I'm just not one of them.

Now if you need simple engineering help with the power supply or how to evaluate strange waveforms from an oscilloscope, then I might be able to lend some assistance there.

Sounds like you are starting to collect your apparatus. Your 15 KV transformer might be to high and leave you short on avaliable current. The Blue engine power supply had DC meters that maxed out at 5 KV, so I suppose that the power supply didn't go above that. I suspect the normal operating voltage was between 3-4 KV.

Do your theory at what ever voltage you can secure equipment with and let us know how well the calculations match with measurements. You can always adjust the voltage down once you see how things are working.

Keep in mind that the sucessful power supply had two out of phase outputs. It appears that the converter part of the circuit (the single turn FFF) was a push - pull kind of operation. Right now I view it as a Tesla transmitter with the secondaries removed so that now there are only two primaries. One acts as a transmitter and the other as a receiver. They switch roles ever other cycle. I suspect that the missing and overlooked component is the kind of dielectric that was placed between these two windings - but this is all pure speculation and doesn't even have a theoritical basis. I'ts just the E.V. Gray was very fond of Delrin as the core of his electromagnet demonstrations in 1986. Why was that? He certainly didn't figure that out on his own. Sombody must have told him that this particular dielectric was important.

Keep in mind that the foundation of this technology is the "Electrostatic Generator" not electromagnetic generation. Who knows what they were really talking about back then. But, it implies that an electrostatic process was involved. Nobody has come up with a clue yet as to how that was used. But if it was I think Delrin was employed.

Also, a lead-acid battery is vital to the operation of the circuit and not as a power supply, but as a functional component. It seems that some kind of ion sink was necessary.

I also think that the collection of anomalus particles was done with an open loop method - like the Dollard-Lindemann-Brown experiment. In that demonstartion a NE-34 lamp was used on one end. I think the Gray team used one side of the battery (most likely positive) to take the place of the neon lamp. Once a standing wave was established the positive side of the battery would capture the remaining free conduction electrons as they sloshed back and forth in the open secondary. Eventually all the free electrons would be absorbed by the battery and the only energy left would be the pure electrostatic standing wave. But this idea is one of many possibilities to explore.

Spokane1
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:51 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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A Burst of Flavor

Dear Ivleon and lamare,

It's going to take me a few days to digest everything you guys posted. I shall work on it a page at a time. Yet, I still have to cut my E.V. Gray history speech from 96 photos down to no more than 70 and an equal amount of text needs to be deleted. It's hard to know what to eleminate. And none of this talk is about the hardware observations or even a hint about my own cherished speculations. So I have to get this edit task done first.

I will comment on all the recent posts in the fullness of time.

Mark McKay
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:54 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by lvleon View Post
If you really are interested in Quantum magnetic measurements - we have a very good book three Russian authors "Physical basis of quantum magnetometry" (RUS)
Google

Try to translate it into English. - it's worth it!

Best wishes
Leonid Volkov
Dear Leonid,

I personally do not believe magnetics to be the answer we are looking for.

I am a firm believer in aether theory:

Fundamentally, in the aether theory magnetics is the rotation of the aether.

Gravity is the gradient of the electric field in the eather.

In other words: Gravity is the Bernouilli / Venturi effect in the aether.

Paul Stowe did an excellent job working this all out:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Personal E Mail
Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Foundation Unification Physics
Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Nature Of Charge
Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/Paul_Stowe/


So, I think magnetics is just a special case of the electric field.

It is the electric field running in circles. Or better: it is the aether running around in circles or spirals.

Since there are problems with both the Einstein theory and Quantum Mechanics we have only one fundamental theory left that has not been proven to be incorrect: the aether theory.

And Stowe made an excellent mathematical model for that.

It is very hard to discuss these matters with a Google translator in between. Judging on how Google translates Stowe's stuff into Dutch, I think you may get a pretty good idea about how simple his model is using Google translator.


OK.

The magnetic field of the Earth is very weak compared to gravity. And since gravity is an effect caused by the electric field, I think it is much more likely that devices that draw energy out of the aether do so by means of the electric field rather than by the magnetic field.

Simply because there is much more energy available within the non-rotating phenomena taking place in the aether.

And remember, gravity IS an effect caused by the electric field..


I hope this may be helpful to you.


Another interesting theory is "parametric parameter variation".

Eric Dollard pointed us to a paper in Russian from the 1930's, which is also available in English now:

Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/Mandelstam_Papalexi/

Quote:
The article describes an approximate theory of the phenomena of oscillation excitation in electric oscillation system, where there are no obvious sources of electric or magnetic forces.
VERY important principle!

And you don't even have to translate it..


Best wishes and blessings to you too,

-- Arend Lammertink --


@Leonid : sent you a private message via the forum with my email address....

Last edited by lamare; 06-08-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 06-10-2012, 04:00 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Elementary NMR

Dear lvleon,

Could you enlighten me on some fundamental issues that are being discussed here?

It is my understanding that Neuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) deals with electron spin dynamics - at least in medical imaging applications.

It seems that all your work, instrumentation, charts, and graphs deal with protron precession frequencies.

How are these two subjects related?

Spokane1
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
from TRIGATRON
"The trigger transformer generates a high voltage pulse that ionizes a thin path of gas between the two switching electrodes. This ion trail provides a low resistance path for the main current to pass through."
This does seem similar to how the system works outlined in these many pages of discussion.
What is the difference between how a standard trigatron works and the method by which a Gray Event takes place?




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Old 07-06-2012, 12:41 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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This does seem similar to how the system works outlined in these many pages of discussion.
What is the difference between how a standard trigatron works and the method by which a Gray Event takes place?

It may be that we simply overlooked one important detail in Wheatstone's experiment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
So, you FIRST get the electric field propagating in the shape of a longitudinal dielectric shock wave at a speed of pi/2 times c along the lines Wheatstone investigated ( Tuks DrippingPedia : Wheatstone Experiments To Measure The Velocity Of Electricity ).

That gives you a strong magnetic field in your coil, along Maxwell Ampere:
Maxwell's equations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, the extreme electric field pulse caused by the HV discharge of the cap bank into the coil trough a spark gap gives you a magnetic field you can use for free.

From Wheatstone's document:

Quote:
When the velocity was low, the terminating points appeared to be exactly in the same vertical line ; but when the velocity was considerable, and the mirror revolved towards the right, the lines assumed this appearance, ; when it revolved towards the left, they appeared thus, . In no case did I see them thus, , or thus, , as required in the hypothesis of the actual transfer of a single fluid.
Some time ago, I thought about re-doing Wheatstone's experiment with modern equipent, which shows you schematically what Wheatstone was doing:

High res: http://www.tuks.nl/img/Wheatstone_reloaded.jpg

I was thinking of using an ignition coil instead of a cap bank to fire the spark gaps, which may give different results.

Either way, what is important from Wheatstone's observations, is that both spark gaps at the end of the long wire (SG1 and SG3 in my drawing) fire *simultaneously*!!


In other words: once the spark gaps SG1 and SG3 fire, wether or not SG3 is actually a spark gap or a shortcut, you get TWO shockwaves propagating in oppozing direction along the long wires...


Now if these long wires are wound up on a coil, then of course the shockwaves entering the top and bottom of the coil at the same time, will oppoze one another and therefore no resulting magnetic field is obtained from these longitudinal shockwaves propagating along your coil wires

However, if you would take two IDENTICAL coils in series, you may be in busines....

Update:

If this is indeed correct, then you have to consider the fact that the wavefront propagating from the negative pole of the cap bank (or battery) propagates in the other direction as the normal current, which is the normal discharge of the capacitor.

On other words: in one of the coils, the magnetic field created by normal current is in the opposit direction as the magnetic field created by the longitudinal wave front!

That means you will have to design your system such that you maximize the utilization of the longitudinal wave front, while minimizing the effect of the oppozing normal current flow.

In the plans circulating about some fueless engine replication (which may or may not be bogus), they suggest to use very thin wire:

Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/Fuelless_Engine/

Quote:
The finer the wire you use and the more turns of wire, the more free energy output you will have, but motor input voltage must go up. Using the fine wire will cause the motor to run with very little amperage at all, and then the Free Energy back EMF can then be used to replenish the 12 volt battery or batteries. The finer the wire the harder it is to turn. Hair thin wire breaks very easy.
Another factor is the capacitance of you cap bank. IF indeed the longitudinal shock wave front is the effect that gives you the free energy AND the normal current oppozes this effect, then your capacitance should be as low as possible, BUT high enough to keep the voltage across the system stable for at least the time it takes for the shock wave to propagate along the length of your coil wire, which would be in the order of 1 usec or so for 300 - 400 m of coil wire. (propagation speed in air is pi/2 times c, but in a coil propation is considerably slower).

Last edited by lamare; 07-06-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:24 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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The Lost & Overlooked Secret

Quote:
Originally Posted by geotron View Post
This does seem similar to how the system works outlined in these many pages of discussion.
What is the difference between how a standard trigatron works and the method by which a Gray Event takes place?
--
Dear geotron,

You have essentially hit the nail on the head. If the Gray tube could have ever generated any sort of noticable energy gain any where near the levels described for this technology (COP = 282), then OU would have been discovered a thousand times over in the normal application of Thyratrons, Ignitrons, arc welders, arc lamps, trigger tubes, strobe circuits, and hundreds of more applications where pulsed ionized gases are exploited.

The CEST is NOT the center keneral of this technology, however some kind of a switching arc with an ion plasma is a required part of the system. It is much like a light bulb and a switch. A switch is needed to turn a bulb on, but the energy conversion takes place in the bulb and not the switch - even though both components are needed for a complete controllable system.

The actual seat of energy conversion in this technology has been completly overlooked here and in Tesla technology as well.

Recall that in the lat 60's (before Marvin Cole left) the group of "Insiders" called themselves the "Electrostatic and Electromagnetic Association". After Gray took over he reduced the name to just "Electromagnetic Association" or EMA. Where is the Electrostatic part of this technology? Does anyone have a clue or has even taken the time to address this concept? Generally not, it has been well hidden from the eyes of the casual and more experienced experimenter.

Consider that the stand alone alpha energy converter (Black Box) was named "The Electrostatic Generator". We know it had a custom HV ignition transformer and either a vibrator or transistor chopper, but where is the Electrostatic part?

Why did Gray make such a big deal of using Delrin as the core for his popping coil demonstrations in 1986? He certainly didn't think of this idea on his own. Marvin Cole gave him that concept. So why was Cole pulsing blocks of Delrin with magnetic coils? It certainly wan't to observe the effects of a classical mass driver idea.

Consider the work of T.T. Browne and his discovery with the coupling of gravity with high voltage using a dielectric mass as the conversion medium. Well, the Gray technology works something like that except both HV and pulsed magnetic fields are applied (at right angles) to a dielectric to get the anomalous "something". It appears that the actual device was the "Floating Flux Field" in the early machines. Hackenberger got wise and was able to make this conversion element smaller and hide it in the cans that were held out to be "Capacitors" in the EMA6 engine. He was also able to eleminate the need of having the FFF wrapped around the engine case.

The trick is extracting the "something" from the dielectric after it is generated and getting it to collect into the storage capacitors. It appears that a lead acid battery is needed for this task. I suspect that the harvest method employed was an open secondary arrangement like the Dollard circuit.

Not all dielectrics work. It appears that they must have Electret properties. This would include Teflon, polyethelyene, Delrin (or Acetal), and the Rosin/Beeswax mixture that Dr. Tesla used. I'm sure there are others. Things that don't work are PVC and XPVC

In my professional opinion (the present anyway) there never will be any OU in a spark tube or CEST type of device operating by itself. But that doesn't mean that there is no merit in this approach. I believe that Farnsworth has a much better grip on arc tube concepts and his grid designs are the way to go if that is where your interest lies.

The Gray technology was based on something different and neither Gray, Cole, or Hackenberger left behind any documentation about the real 'Secret". However, when "Hack" died his brother Bertrum (in Portland, Or) received his lab books. He kept them for about 10 years then tossed them a year before Mr. Ron Hammer called on him to see if he knew anything. Darn - so close.

Mark McKay
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:34 PM
Wicaksono Wicaksono is offline
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progress of eric dollard's experiment replication

Hello Mr. McKay, is there any progress with replication of eric dollard's experiment ? Have you got all materials ? Thanks.

Wicaksono
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:12 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Recall that in the lat 60's (before Marvin Cole left) the group of "Insiders" called themselves the "Electrostatic and Electromagnetic Association". After Gray took over he reduced the name to just "Electromagnetic Association" or EMA. Where is the Electrostatic part of this technology? Does anyone have a clue or has even taken the time to address this concept? Generally not, it has been well hidden from the eyes of the casual and more experienced experimenter.

Consider that the stand alone alpha energy converter (Black Box) was named "The Electrostatic Generator". We know it had a custom HV ignition transformer and either a vibrator or transistor chopper, but where is the Electrostatic part?
Longitudinal dielectric waves == longitudinal electro"static" waves!!

Essentially what is wrong with our current theory is that the momentum properties of the aether are not modelled correctly. Yes, the magnetic field is *a* form of momentum, which is needed for the propagation of waves.

However, magnetism only models the ROTATIONAL part of the momentum properties of the medium, the aether. The non-rotational momentum properties of the aether are totally ignored.

And that means you *can* have longitudinal dielectric waves, Tesla's "sound" waves in de aether, WITHOUT rotational magnetic component.

In other words: you CAN have movements of the aether WITHOUT the movements of "charge" in the shape of particles. And THAT movement of the aether is the energy source we are looking for.

It is not only the cause of gravity, which is grad E according to Stowe's model (gravity IS the Venturi/Bernouilli effect in the aether), it is most of all what we know as the electrostatic field, which is NOT static at all.

The electrostatic field is a D.C. steady state movement of the aether, it IS a steady state flow of the aether itself, which is maintained by charge carriers, which can in essence be regarded as "aether pumps", along the lines theorized by Prof. Turtur, as you can find in my article at Pes:

Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Really, the principles are all there.

All you need to do is to realize that the magnetic field is a rotational movement of the aether and that the non-rotational movements of the aether itself are the key to unlocking all the things we are looking for, including explaining gravity and T.T. Browns experiments....

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Old 07-06-2012, 06:36 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
Why did Gray make such a big deal of using Delrin as the core for his popping coil demonstrations in 1986? He certainly didn't think of this idea on his own. Marvin Cole gave him that concept. So why was Cole pulsing blocks of Delrin with magnetic coils? It certainly wan't to observe the effects of a classical mass driver idea.

Consider the work of T.T. Browne and his discovery with the coupling of gravity with high voltage using a dielectric mass as the conversion medium. Well, the Gray technology works something like that except both HV and pulsed magnetic fields are applied (at right angles) to a dielectric to get the anomalous "something". It appears that the actual device was the "Floating Flux Field" in the early machines. Hackenberger got wise and was able to make this conversion element smaller and hide it in the cans that were held out to be "Capacitors" in the EMA6 engine. He was also able to eleminate the need of having the FFF wrapped around the engine case.
One of the problems to consider is how the longitudinal shockwave, as has been measured by Wheatstone, propagates along your wire.

My moonbounce antenna measurements *do* suggest that longitudinal dielectric waves do not easily radiate away from a standard dipole antenna. They somehow stay within the vicinity of the dipole. As far as I can tell, you *do* get resonance, but the energy does not radiate away, just as with the longitudinal waves used by Elmore, which also propagate along a naked wire:

Directory contents of /pdf/Patents/Elmore/

So, the question is: how do you make sure your shockwave propagates along your coil wire, such that it does not take a shortcut jumping from one winding to the next?

Or, to put it another way: how do you guide such a shockwave, such that you manage to make the non-rotating wave front run around in circles, thus giving you a magnetic field you can use for free?

All we know is that it *does* interact with the electrons inside a metal wire and that it normally does not radiate away from a straight wire...

A coil with a dielectric core, such as Delrin, may just be the answer to that question. You then get something similar to the construction of a coax cable without the metal central wire....

After all, the propagation speed of EM waves and thus electrostatic waves in a dielectric is considerably slower than in the open air or vacuum. So, if you have a shockwave approaching your coil construction along your wire, whereby it occupies a certain circular shaped area around your wire, it might not just follow your wire along the corner, at least not in such a way that you get a nice resulting magnetic field you can use.

However, if the "corner" is filled with a dielectric on one side, then then the wave propagates at high speed at the outside of the coil, but is slowed down at the inside of the coil and will therefore curve nicely along the surface of your coil.

And then it seems to me you may be able to get the desired situation:

An electrostatic shock wave running around in a circle, creating a strong magnetic field, completely in accordance with Maxwell's correction to Ampere's law.




Update: And if this is correct, then the spark gap is needed for fast switching, so you get the shockwave you want with an extreme dE/dt needed for a strong magnetic field along Maxwell/ampere, which is a current-less propagation of electrostatic energy with strong dE/dt. And then the CSET is in essence a D.C. (normal current) blocking couple capacitor, so you don't spoil the precious energy from your cap bank by discharging it by means of a normal current into your coils, which should be in series (see Wheatstone), whereby in one of the two coils, a normal current actually oppozes the wanted effects, as stated above....

Last edited by lamare; 07-06-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:53 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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A Fundamental Issue

Dear lamare,

You are certainly doing a lot of good work for the advancement of Longitudinal Energy transmission. I hope the Moon Bounce effort and the Wheatstone experiment meet with your expectations.

However we have a fundament challenge to deal with when evaluating the Gray technology.

It appears that the kind of Energy his crew developed could be stored in a capacitor (or some storage element) for at least 30 seconds - according to observers.

To me this suggests some kind of long life particle. But, I will certainly consider other workable models if one or more are proposed. I just can't see how a longitudinal or electrostatic wave can be stored. I can accept that it can travel faster than light and can probably carry a lot more effective energy. Now tell me how this kind of wave energy can be stored in a capacitor and be different from classical charge carriers when it is no longer moving.

I really think that Dr. Tesla worked with both a particle form and a longitudinal from. I'm sure there are relationships between these variations. I'm more interested in the vintage that is storable.

If you have a moment I would sure be interested in one of your well written technical paragraphs addressing this paradox.

Mark McKay
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:06 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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The Eric Dollare replication experiments -progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicaksono View Post
Hello Mr. McKay, is there any progress with replication of eric dollard's experiment ? Have you got all materials ? Thanks.

Wicaksono
Dear Wicaksono,

Thanks for your interest. I have been busy with preparations for the Bedini-Lindemann Conference. I had to learn how to do Power Point for a 74 slide show. The lecture ran 1 hour and 20 minutes and I had to leave out about half of the juicy stuff. Afterwards I had an impromptu discussion on the Gray hard ware. About 20 people stayed for an additional half hour (waiting for the lunch line to shorten). I think it went pretty well for a first time speech. At least I got a few laughs from some of the jokes I embedded in the slides.

Now, I can get back to doing the important work. The only problem is that this time of year my wife lays claim on my body for the outdoor seasonal household chores.

I have just about all of the parts needed for a first run. Mr. Dollard says he used Teflon coated coax, which is available for $2 a foot and I need 100'. I have Teflon-silver #16 AWG stranded and I'm going to use this first. I need to build the Antenna/Transformer structure as well as the loading coil.

I shall keep you all posted

Mark McKay
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:31 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
Dear lamare,

You are certainly doing a lot of good work for the advancement of Longitudinal Energy transmission. I hope the Moon Bounce effort and the Wheatstone experiment meet with your expectations.

However we have a fundament challenge to deal with when evaluating the Gray technology.

It appears that the kind of Energy his crew developed could be stored in a capacitor (or some storage element) for at least 30 seconds - according to observers.

To me this suggests some kind of long life particle. But, I will certainly consider other workable models if one or more are proposed. I just can't see how a longitudinal or electrostatic wave can be stored. I can accept that it can travel faster than light and can probably carry a lot more effective energy. Now tell me how this kind of wave energy can be stored in a capacitor and be different from classical charge carriers when it is no longer moving.

I really think that Dr. Tesla worked with both a particle form and a longitudinal from. I'm sure there are relationships between these variations. I'm more interested in the vintage that is storable.

If you have a moment I would sure be interested in one of your well written technical paragraphs addressing this paradox.

Mark McKay

First of all, watch this video:
MIT Physics Demo -- Dissectible Capacitor - YouTube

Eric Dollards comment on this:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post90090

Quote:
There are some very serious misconceptions in the world of Electrical Engineering today. (The writings of Oliver Heaviside and Proteus Steinmetz gravely warned about this...) Let us start with the YouTube MIT Physics Demo video that Armagdn03 posted a link to on 11-10-2009 on page 2 of this thread. This is a good demonstration for several reasons.

1.) Glass is a dielectric which can store electrical energy within its physical form. This should be common knowledge and not a surprise to anyone today

2.) That this simple fact and reality blows some peoples minds clearly illustrates that its just all gone way, way, too far The Einsteinian Lie has succeeded in instilling a mind virus in most everyone and also in confusing Main Stream Scientists, who today waste billions of dollars of funding each year, only to chase their own tails in a canonic sequence.

Steinmetz comment on this:

Eric Dollard and Tesla

Quote:
"Unfortunately, to a large extent in dealing with the dielectric fields the prehistoric conception of the electrostatic charge on the conductor still exists, and by its use destroys the analogy between the two components of the electric field, the magnetic and the dielectric, and makes the consideration ot dielectric fields unnecessarily complicated. There obviously is no more sense in thinking of the capacity current as current which charges the conductor with a quantity of electricity, than there is of speaking of the inductance voltage as charging the conductor with a quantity of magnetism. But while the latter conception, together with the notion of a quantity of magnetism, etc., has vanished since Faraday's representation of the magnetic field by the lines of magnetic force, the terminology of electrostatics of many textbooks still speaks of electrostatic charges on the conductor, and the energy stored by them, without considering that the dielectric energy is not on the surface of the conductor, but in the space outside of the conductor, just as the magnetic energy."

As I stated before, electrostatic energy is a "D.C." steady state flow of the aether itself. In my Pes article, I use the concept of a "fandoor" to explain the interactions of an electron (the fandoor) with the aether (wind, airflow).

The forces that we measure, are not static forces, just like the airflow generated by a fan is not a static force.

In other words: in actual fact, no energy is actually stored in a capacitor. What you have is a certain configuration of fandoors, ether pumps, electrons and atom nuclei, which pump the aether around along a certain path. It is that flowing aether which pushes against your electrons, which makes them move around, which is what we call a current.

You can create the same kind of aether flow with a polarized dielectric, which leads to an effect that has been observed with Bedini-charged capacitors as well as lead-acid batteries, which we called "the electret effect". I have posted some on this quite some time ago, which posts I linked from my pes article in the electret effect section:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki


There is a video wherein Bedini explains what happens within his batteries:
BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv - YouTube

And someone did some laboratory work on lead-acid batteries charged with Bedini pulses, too:
Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/Rogers/

Also see this post by Cody:
Spontaneous charging radiantly charged capacitor research group


The polarization of a dielectric is a very interesting effect:

Dielectric - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
A dielectric is an electrical insulator that can be polarized by an applied electric field. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material as they do in a conductor, but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization.

[...]

When the electric field is removed the atom returns to its original state. The time required to do so is the so-called relaxation time; an exponential decay.

[...]

The relationship between the electric field E and the dipole moment M gives rise to the behavior of the dielectric, which, for a given material, can be characterized by the function F defined by the equation:

M = F(E).

[...]

Dielectric relaxation is the momentary delay (or lag) in the dielectric constant of a material. This is usually caused by the delay in molecular polarization[disambiguation needed] with respect to a changing electric field in a dielectric medium (e.g. inside capacitors or between two large conducting surfaces). Dielectric relaxation in changing electric fields could be considered analogous to hysteresis in changing magnetic fields (for inductors or transformers).
So, it appears that when you apply a very strong electric field, which apparantly can be in the shape of a sharp rising pulse (large dE/dt) propagating trough your dielectric (a longitudinal shockwave), you get a very strong polarization. Because there is a relaxation effect, the polarization does not go away instantly and it appears a dielectric can remain polarized for a considerable time. Bedini reported "cold boiling" lead batteries that kept on boiling for up to half an hour after removing the charger.

To sum this up:

What you can do with a londitudinal shock wave in the shape of a sharp rising edge (large dE/dt) and a soft dropping falling edge is to super-polarize a dielectric, such that it keeps it's polarization for a considerable time, depending on the applied voltage, etc.

When you put such a polarized dielectric in between capacitor plates, you can get an effect whereby capacitors spontaneously recharge after having been shortcutted. This has been observed with electrolytic capacitors, whereby you have a very thin layer of aluminum oxide as your dielectric on one of the capacitor plates. This is a very similar construction as with a lead-acid battery, especially in the old days.

In other words: you can super-polarize a dielectric layer within both an electrolytic capacitor as well as a lead-acid battery, which would result as the cap/battery being observed as having been charged.

Just as the MIT dissectible Leyden jar, whereby the energy is "stored" in the dielectric...
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:04 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Super Charged Electrets

Dear lamare,

Thank you for your quick and most interesting reply. I shall print this off and study it more closely over the weekend.

Mark McKay
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:11 PM
geotron geotron is offline
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Spokane1,

The ability of a tripole (++-) tube to generate extra electricity through the process of expanding the volume of energy present in an electrolytic capacitor bank through a coil by enabling it to cross the air gap with potential gained from a bank of silicon rectifiers when its poles are connected with a stream of Hi-Voltage and combined together with it is how the system was thought to work!

A secondary coil would then be used to transform the voltage into a useable level and fed to the source battery in pulses, precicely as done with the other motor circuits. Could it be a matter of using threaded electrodes to obtain a miniscule spark gap for allowing the anode of a 12V battery to be used as input versus having the inverter and all that goes with it providing a resevoir of greater voltage to more readily allow the photoelectric discharge to take place?

The amount of wattage going through the air gap when the Hi-Voltage pulse is combined with the capacitive medium, a reactive pool normally connected directly to a motor coil instead of colliding through this other potential over the gap is what is said to increase in the process through activating an energetic reaction to take place which has the direct outcome of increasing the resultant magnetic field.




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