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  #2521  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:41 PM
lvleon lvleon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalena555 View Post
Dear Mark,

The bit of info of getting the motor to run without the tubes is new info to me. So much learn XD. Well now I'm gonna scale back my test setup a bit, I'm on limited funds (aren't we all) but I still will build it just to test it. It's an interesting device regardless and if nothing it will teach me a lot. My experienced in the FE is quite limited in terms of actually building circuits (joules thief mostly and working on a solid state state ssg type circuit). Theory is all well and good but until I start more projects I won't learn more so I'm diving head first into this XD
Hello, dier Mark, kalena555 and all members this site!
For you - about principles of work CEST of Edvin V. Gray:
All wishing to receive the free energy:

Free Energy can be obtained with a low cost electric energy only in microwave-active resonance of physical processes, when it haves an internal positive feedback with ether (physical vacuum). The dimensions of elementary particles, atoms, molecules and so forth, and a dimensions basic resonant connections is extremely small (as compared with the wave-length), but their number per unit volume is enormous. In such systems the total energy of radiation/absorption on active centers is determined by their concentration per unit of volume taking into account all kinds and forms of its interaction.
The Hydrogen Generator microwave oscillation with internal positive feedback (MASER) works in the interstellar space and the energy converter Edwin gray (CEST) at a frequency of f = (1,420,405,701.800 ± 0.028) Hz. It described in Feynman's lectures on Physics: The entire set of lectures:
Download Feynman_Lectures_on_Physics_Complete.pdf for free on Filesonic.com
See Vol. 3, Lecture 12, pp. 12_1 – 12_12. (At the counter pages: the third volume begins with page 1050).

Now see fig. 12-2; 12-3; 12-4:




These Feynman's figures show, that in "neutral" atoms of hydrogen an energy of electrons with reverse spin (state of the II and IV) with increasing magnetic field strength DECREASES, but for the electrons with normal spin (state I and III) it INCREASES -as it should be in our World.

Edwin Gray somehow reached the understanding, that in order to obtain free energy, should be somehow from the entire mass of the electrons of atoms of hydrogen in the neutral state, to separate the electrons with reverse spin, which are in a states II and IV (the state of a positrons).
M-r Gray founded decision of this task by very simple and original way – for separated “the new type of positive electricity” he used quarter-wave coaxial symmetric transformer, called “BALUN” (BALance to UNbalance). (See Fig. 4).



About “THE BALUN” see: К. Rothammel: “Antennenbuch”, Kapitel 7: “Symmetrier und Sperrglieder”. Udgave 10 – 1991; 11 - 1995, Verlag Franckh-Kosmos; Udgave 12 – 2001, Verlag DARC Rothammels Antennenbuch, 48,60 €, DARC Verlag GmbH



Quote from Feynman Lectures (p. 12-12):
“The shift of the energy levels of an atom due to a magnetic field is called the Zeeman effect. We say that the curves in Fig. 12-3 show the Zeeman splitting of the ground state of hydrogen. When there is no magnetic field, we get just one spectral line from the hyperfine structure of hydrogen. The transitions between state | IV> and any one of the others occurs with the absorption or emission of a photon whose frequency 1420 megacycles is 1/h times the energy difference 4A. When the atom is in a magnetic field В, however, there arc many more lines. There can be transitions between any two of the four states. So if we have atoms in all four states, energy can be absorbed — or emitted — in any one of the six transitions shown by the vertical arrows in Fig. 12-4. …
…What makes the transitions go? The transitions will occur if you apply a small disturbing magnetic field that varies with time (in addition to the steady strong field B)”.
End of quote.

It goes without saying that most likely such transitions can be obtained if the gas environment containing Hydrogen atoms, placed in the resonator, which amplifying "small perturbation magnetic field" at a frequency of 1420 MHz.

If the resonator is a coaxial BALUN length 211.1/4 = 52.78 mm, so in his working volume will go the separation of electrons with reverse spin (positrons) from the usual electrons, аnd it will happen automatically, because at its exit the microwave currents along the Central electrode and along the cylinder have a different phases of the current = 180°. (See Fig. 4).
The spin of electrons in a hydrogen atom - normal (0) and inverted (1) - have exactly the same different angles, as well as the different direction of currents (mobility) of electrons.
Continue to read Mr. Edwin Gray patent Publication No. US 04661747 published on Apr 28, 1987 Application No 791508 filed on Oct 25, 1985. He writes that to improve the efficiency of the converter, you can increase the number of the cylinders (collectors) in the CEST - two, three, etc.

Also see here. table “The transition of an ultra-thin structure of some isotopes”

(G.M. RUDNITSKY. LECTURE COURSE "RADIO ASTRONOMY" (Rus))
Êîíñïåêò ëåêöèé ïî ðàäèîàñòðîíîìèè. Ñîäåðæàíèå) see Chapter 5. Interstellar medium and star formation in the Galaxy, 5.4. Recombination radiolines

To run the maser’s mechanism of "positive feedback" you need to create a strong magnetic field, which is generated in the BALUN by magnetic soliton wave. It’s formed by the powerful current boost through central electrode of the BALUN from the condenser discharge through the spark gap, which is located at the begin of the Central electrode of BALUN. (See Fig. 4).
As Edwin Gray, who was no had special education, found the best way to integrate all the above achievements of quantum- and radio- and astrophysicist - incomprehensible! But he did it!!!

© Leonid Volkov, Zaporozhzhje, Ukraine

More see my works on site:
ðÅÒÅ×ÏÄÞÉË Google


To Mark McKay and Eric Dollard - a huge thanks at the historical submissions files about Ed Gray
With respect
Leonid Volkov

P.S. How I can insert a Figures and Images to this text?
At what address I can to download them?
Tell me, please!

Download pic_79.jpg for free on Filesonic.com
Download pic_81.jpg for free on Filesonic.com
Download pic_70-1.jpg for free on Filesonic.com
Download pic_84.jpg for free on Filesonic.com
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  #2522  
Old 12-21-2011, 07:29 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Lecture #7 Broken Arc Switch Concept Experiment

Dear E.V. Gray Lost Technology Researchers,

Here is an interesting document (see attached pdf file) that you might consider in your quest to reverse engineer the E.V. Gray technology. It comes from the GD collection. Mr. GD didn’t personally know the author, Mr. Chris Gutier, but some how collected these few pages on one of his trips to California while constantly requesting all the documentation he could get.

This paper appears to be an attempt by a person with some technical knowledge, but I doubt their understanding was totally consistent with what would be taught in a first year college physics course.

Mr. Gutier discusses his interpretations of the electrical oscillations that take place between an inductor (the popping coils) and the storage capacitor.

It appears that the Mr. Gutier believes that 90% of the energy used to pop a coil is wasted in useless oscillations. From my perspective it all depends upon the parameters involved. In my older experiments I found that I could only recover about 13% of the energy after the first zero crossing. However, what is important in this paper is the comment, “But the fact that the magnets has jumped, and broken the circuit, the oscillation of static electricity surges back into the capacitors”

This implies that the movement of the popping coil activates some sort of mechanical switching process to interrupt the circuit. Now, Mr. Gutier was strictly referring to the “popping coil” applications and didn’t really tie this process into the engine operation. But it is not difficult to go from a popping coil to a pulse engine if there is a huge overall energy gain along the way.

My study of the Pulse Engine patent, the GD and Valentine photos has convinced me that the opposing “Major Electromagnets” were intended to strike arcs between their cores for at least part of the rotation of the engine. The purpose behind this construction feature is still unknown. (Although I have a few good speculations)

To experimentally follow up on this concept using the NST I rearranged my coil popping apparatus to be configured so that when the popping coil moved it would break the circuit. (See photo) Since this is DC the resulting arc will continue for some time before being quenched. In this case it lasts 15 mS. If the interrupter switch is not employed then the current pulse lasts 20 mS. So, some energy is saved. In my setup, when the capacitor is charged to 2700 VDC and popped through the opposing coils then about 1100 Volts (or less) remains. At 2700 VDC we have stored 18 Joules in the 5 uF capacitor. At 1100 VDC we have only 3 Joules left. This means we have recovered only 16% of the starting energy – a far cry from 90%. Perhaps there were other circuit conditions that I’m not aware of.

What I have noticed in this topology is that placing the popping coils in series reduces their performance by 50% when compared to the same coils wired parallel. This might be expected since the circuit loop inductance is doubled.

Since the total energy harvested is directly related to the maximum height of the popping coil it appears that a stretched (copper to copper) arc does not result in an immediately observable energy gain. Since there is such a change in physical performance with a change in inductance this implies that there is an optimum inductance that would best absorb the mechanical pulse. I will have to dig through my reference material and see if there are equations that can predict what this value would be. I’m sure the size of the moving mass is an important factor.

You all have a Merry Christmas and don’t spend all your holiday time in the basement (or attic) doing experiments.

Mark McKay
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Broken Arc.jpg (42.0 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Broken Arc Schematic 12-21-2011.jpg (169.3 KB, 70 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Chris Gutier Paper 1974.pdf (166.7 KB, 39 views)
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  #2523  
Old 12-22-2011, 12:33 PM
kalena555 kalena555 is offline
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A quick update on my tube replication. I got the tube working to a degree, I get grid output( lights a neon bulb) but its quite weak possibly due to the homemade cap I'm using. No scope to test but I wouldn't risk trying to scope the grids output even if I had one. Learn a lot threw this project tho, recieved a shock or two from my HV power supply(won't make that mistake again!) And overall just getting a project built instead of thinking about it.

Mark, thanks for your input it was much appreciated. I do believe that the CEST while interesting, is a project I should undertake at a later time( I seriously need more experience with hv experiments!). Thanks again and happy holidays!!
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  #2524  
Old 12-22-2011, 04:41 PM
Wicaksono Wicaksono is offline
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interview of Marvin Cole ?

Hello Mr. McKay, is Marvin Cole still alive and can be interviewed ?

Wicaksono
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  #2525  
Old 12-22-2011, 05:08 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Marvin Cole Interview?

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Originally Posted by Wicaksono View Post
Hello Mr. McKay, is Marvin Cole still alive and can be interviewed ?

Wicaksono
Dear Wicaksono,

If I knew that Mr. Cole were alive and also knew where he lived I would immediatly take a week off work and book a plane ticket to that location.

According to George Gray: Mr. Cole moved on with his girl friend.

According to Nelson Schlaft: E.V. Gray was investigated for possible murder of the original inventor of the technology. Apparently some court proceedings were involved and Gray had to hire a lawyer. He didn't have the money to do so and had to lean on friends and relatives for help. Apparently the charges were dropped.

So, the accounts vary widly.

If Edwin and Marvin were the same age that would make Mr. Cole about 86 today.

Mark McKay
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  #2526  
Old 12-25-2011, 07:49 AM
Wicaksono Wicaksono is offline
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GD electrostatic generator

Thanks Mr. McKay, also I wonder what happened to Electrostatic Generator that Edwin Gray gave to Mr. GD ? Does Mr. GD still have it ?

Wicaksono
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  #2527  
Old 12-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Fate of the 2nd Generation Electrostatic Generators

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Thanks Mr. McKay, also I wonder what happened to Electrostatic Generator that Edwin Gray gave to Mr. GD ? Does Mr. GD still have it ?

Wicaksono
Dear Wicaksono,

According to GD: He returned both Electrostatic Generators to Richard Hackenberger on Jan. 9, 1976 when he attended the last stock holders meeting in California. He even has a written receipt to this effect.

Side Notes:

According to a phone conversation with Mr. Hackenberger the 2nd generation devices didn't work near as well as the originals. This is understandable. It seems that "Hack" hadn't yet figured out the technology completly in 1976. The EMA6 Pulse Engine only managed 2% of its design output and I suppose the Electrostatic Generators didn't do much better. Hack admitted that the new Coleman floresent camp lamp lasted 22 hours while his olnly lasted about 16-18 hrs. This is hardly an endorsement for a Free-energy device.

The Electrostatic Generators were never produced even though there seems to have been a substantial effort to due so. They had the design all figured out but couldn't get the right fianacial flooring arrangements worked out with a manufacturer. No one wanted to be on the hook for the cost of the parts and labor with only the "if come" on sales for payment.

Then the "Energetic" [No relation to this fourm] company from Denver bought the rights and just sat on them. By late 1975 they were sueing Gray for breech of contract.

After these events the Electrostatic Generator was never seen again. Which is odd. It appears to me that Gray was in sore need of working equipment from 1980 on. A working Electrostatic Generator would have certainly aided in his selling efforts. Perhaps he was making so much money with the Caymen Island venture that he didn't need it?

I speculate that with the death of Mr. Hackenberger in 1980 Gray didn't have a clue as to how to build an original working Electrostatic Generator and the plans he had for the 2nd generation device were usless. He probably had viable plans for the "Blue Engine" and that was what he might have been hocking.

The original Marvin Cole Electrostatic Generator was an impressive device by itself. It could operate 1400 Watts of connected load (according to Dowd Cannady) from a 6 Ahr motor cycle battery. I conjecture that it was this demonstartion device that inspired the early investors to contribute money for the construction of the late 60's pulse motors.

Mark McKay
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  #2528  
Old 12-31-2011, 01:38 PM
Wicaksono Wicaksono is offline
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Dr James Gray interview

Mr. McKay, after I read about your e-mail correspondence with Dr. James Gray, I am surprised about what he said about Peter Lindemann involvement with Gray motor from early years. What is Peter Lindemann's comment about this, do you ever confirm this to him ?

Wicaksono
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  #2529  
Old 01-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Dr. James Gray and Peter Lindemann

Dear Wicaksono,

Yes, I was surprised as well when Dr. Gray said he thought that Peter Lindemann was one of E.V. Gray's "Insiders".

As far as I can tell the "Insiders" were given the boot in about 1971 to 1972 -just after Marvin Cole left and E.V. Gray Sr. claimed the technology as his own creation.

If I understand my dates correctly Peter was still in high school at the time. He did have an active interest in this technology but was denied any opportunity for an interview. It seems he was not in a position to be an "Insider" despite his desire to do so.

He later was able to talk with a few relatives but was largely black-balled by the rest of the family.

Peter received the Tom Valentine research documents years later and that became the foundation of his book:"The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity".

I speculate that Dr. Gray assumed that Peter must have been an "Insider" to have such a vast knowledge of the E.V. Gray history.

If Peter had been a member of that group we would be not much better off than we are today as far a understanding the fundamental physics of the process. It appears that the "Insiders" numbered between 6 and 30 individuals who were acting as investors/consultants. I speculated that they had technical backgrounds and were convinced about the power of this technology before the first FE Engines were ever constructed.

Since Marvin Cole never gave up his day job it seems that a lot of work must have been done by these people. Perhaps a great deal of supportive design and innovation as well.

When Gray gave all these early supporters the boot, not one of them was able to carry on with the technology on their own. And I'm sure every one of them would have, if they knew the secret(s). E.V. Gray was lacking a lot of technical skills but he somehow knew that all of these people would be no threat to the future disclosure of this technology after he showed them the door. Yet, all of them probably had a close association with the Motor/Engine design as it was being developed.

These circumstances further support that concept that the real secret was in the power supply/converter and not in the rotary portion of the FE Engine. These people probably worked out a lot of details of a workable electromagnetic pulse engine, but Gray/Cole held the details of the "Cold" Electricity generator. If any of these people saw the internals of the real generator then they never saw the whole picture, therefore any reproduction efforts carried on after their dismissal were in vain.

As it was it took Mr. Hackenberger about 3-4 years to figure out what was going on with the original working equipment right in front of him.

Mark McKay
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  #2530  
Old 01-03-2012, 08:37 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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I would risk a brave assumption that Edwin Gray circuit worked the same way as Kapanadze device and was in close relation to Hubbard generator.
All seems to emerge after Word War I and seems to originate from Tesla or Tesla's assistants among a few others.Yeard between WWI and WWII are full of incredible situations when ordinary people were inventing overunity devices.
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  #2531  
Old 01-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Other Similiar OU Systems

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Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
I would risk a brave assumption that Edwin Gray circuit worked the same way as Kapanadze device and was in close relation to Hubbard generator.
All seems to emerge after Word War I and seems to originate from Tesla or Tesla's assistants among a few others.Yeard between WWI and WWII are full of incredible situations when ordinary people were inventing overunity devices.
Dear boguslaw,

Right now, just about any idea is good. WE have no clue as to just where, let alone how, the non-classical conversion took place. Everything is a crap shot.

I find relationships to the Prentice Circuit, The Hendershot Device, The Tesla Table Top Oscillator, the Myer Cell, and the Swiss ML Machine. I'm sure there are many more.

We are in sore need of an understandable theory of operation (That works thank you). I suspect that when we crack this nut the operation of a lot of old OU devices will become apparent. But we are not there yet.

I have always thought that a solution to these challenges will come from a study of all these old devices. Picking up clues from here and there might be the only way we can move forward.

Until then we will just have to muddle through with what we have to work with.

Mark McKay
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  #2532  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:05 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Many of us have speculated on a possible correlation between Dr. Tesla's experiments with disruptive discharges (1892) and his radiant energy experiments (1907) as described by Gerry Vasalatos in his book "Lost Science" and his other book.

However, I don't believe that anyone has proved that these two reported seperate phenomena are one in the same - though it seems they might be. Eric Dollard and Peter Lindemann are the only ones thay have developed a setup that demonstrated the radiant energy phenomena. However neither Eric, Peter, or anyone else has replicated this two decade old important demonstration. So we are really in the dark as to how "radiant energy" is created, much less as to how to measure it. there are a lot of clues in Dr. Tesla's writings but we have a long way to go to even begin to duplicate his work.

Now, is the Gray technology also a "Radiant Energy" process? We don't know. Peter Lindemann made this thesis the foundation of his book "The Cold Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity", and it sounded really good. But, technically we haven't proven anything - yet.

The unfortunate fact is that no one has constructed repeatable apparatus (at least in the public domain) that demonstrates:

1. disruptive arc shock waves that penatrate dielectrics and conductive shields.

2. all of the Tesla radiant energy claimed phenomena as proposed by Tom Bearden

3. The E.V. Gray technology

So it is really hard to take what we think we know from one phenomena (based on Gerry's speculations) and make engineering judgements that applies to another phenomena that we know even less about.

If you think that insulated grids for the CEST is the way to go - then have at it. But, you will have to build and test the equipment yourself. The rest of us are spending our precious time and limited money chasing our own pet ideas. And there is always more wild ideas than what we have money or time to explore.

It is unfortunate, but we don't even has enough understanding about the physics of the phenomena we are searching for to even begin a useful and constructive discussion on the subject - like two structural engineers might discuss the construction of a bridge. About all we have are interesting speculations.

Never the less, I firmly believe that Gray and company hit upon something powerful and important.
We know a lot more than a few months ago. First of all, it is clear that the Maxwell equations in their currently accepted form are NFG, which means Einstein's relativity has to go. See my article on this matter:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Ruins 96 Years Einstein Relativity

This means that we will have to return to the aether model in order to understand the physics we are talking about. Paul Stowe did an excellent job in the direction of formulating a unified aether theory, as I posted a.o. here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
I think Paul Stowe already derived an interesting mathematical “adapter”. He essentially describes a superfluid medium in terms of familiar Newtonian mechanics ( aether populational momenta (p)). Since the only way we have to interact with the aether is by means of electro-magnetic waves, it does not make much difference how you describe your fluid-like medium, as long as it correctly models the electro-magnetic (and dielectric) waves propagating trough the medium. So, a description in terms of Newtonian mechanics is as good as any mathematical description of the medium. I think you could easily replace his description with the electrical engineering analogies for momentum, etc.
From that, we can theorize about the nature of all that can exist in an eather-like medium:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
I don't know how Tesla looked at it, but from my point of view matter is essentially ether in a specific steady-state flow of motion, a flow of motion along some kind of vortex pattern in some kind of medium with fluid-like properties. As I posted here, we have no way to know what the ether is really like. All we can investigate is it's properties in terms of the way the elctromagnetic fields can propagate trough it:

Why Einstein's relativity theory is plain wrong

Quote:
The problem is that there is no way to really know this from an Engineering point of view, because all we know is that everything that exists in the ether is:

1. steady state flows;
2. longitudinal waves;
3. vortexes.

All that is [physical], is a combination of these three phenemenon taking place in a substance called ether, with fluid-like properties in terms of the way it behaves with regard to electrical phenomena taking place.

This is all we really know about it's properties from an Engineering point of view:
A Dissident View of Relativity Theory by William H. Cantrell, Ph.D. :

"Given that the nothingness of a perfect absolute vacuum is bestowed with the physical properties of a permittivity, e_o 8.854 pF/m, a permeability, m_o 4p x 10-7 H/m, and a characteristic impedance of 377 ohms, is the concept of an aether really that outlandish?"

Now the problem is that the only way we can interact with the ether is trough electro-magnetic phenomena in all the various ways these occur. So, how are we going to know what the ether is like, if we can only investigate it's electro-magnetic properties?

Now even though you cannot know what the ether really is made of, you can mathematically define an ideal "superfluid" and match it's properties to the known properties of the actual ether (permittivity, permeability and characteristic impedance) and then you have a theoretical model of the ether with which you can describe everything that we can know about the ether from an engineering point of view, because we can only interact with the ether by means of electro-magnetic interactions.

And that is basically what Paul Stowe did:
<snip>
What is missing in our current engineering models is the understanding of longidudinal dielectric waves, sound waves trough the aether. These are non-existing in all of our theories. These waves can have all a number of different shapes and forms, which all propagate with a speed of pi/2 faster than electromagnetic waves, regardless of the medium. The most basic form of longitudinal dielectric waves, of course, are harmonic sine waves, but you can also have impulses, block waves, etc.

I am currently working on proving the existence of these waves by means of a longitudinal moon-bounce and have constructed an antenna that at least resonates at the designed frequency, while it is not supposed to resonate according to current theory:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post173559

Note that I found that I needed to use a balun and needed a dipole in order for my antenna to work. Connect the dots to the Kapagen device...

While this in and of itself is is not conclusive evidence, it is clear that Tesla as well as Wheatsone measured propagation speeds in the order of 1.5 - 1.6 times c as early as 1834.

So far, so good.

In essence, what we have with the aether theory is a scaling down of the kinds of waves that we see in water or air. This gives us some insight in the conditions needed for penatrating dielectrics and conductive shields, which is a phenomenon known as diffraction:

Diffraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Diffraction refers to various phenomena which occur when a wave encounters an obstacle. Italian scientist Francesco Maria Grimaldi coined the word "diffraction" and was the first to record accurate observations of the phenomenon in 1665. In classical physics, the diffraction phenomenon is described as the apparent bending of waves around small obstacles and the spreading out of waves past small openings. Similar effects occur when light waves travel through a medium with a varying refractive index or a sound wave through one with varying acoustic impedance. Diffraction occurs with all waves, including sound waves, water waves, and electromagnetic waves such as visible light, x-rays and radio waves. As physical objects have wave-like properties (at the atomic level), diffraction also occurs with matter and can be studied according to the principles of quantum mechanics.
This means that the capability of longitudinal shock waves to penetrate dielectrics and conductive shields depends on the wavelength c.q. frequency characteristics of the particular wave. Extremely steep impulses (high frequencies) are capable of penetrating dielectrics and conductive shields, while RF frequency harmonic waves are not. So, in order to create penetrating waves you need an extremely steep impulse, for which you need a sophisticated device, a real Tesla coil (not those blown up ignition coils called "Tesla coils" today) as described by Dollard:

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Eric_Dollard_...s%28OCR%29.pdf

Quote:
The transformer's principals of operation are as follows:

The first requirement is the sudden collapse of an energy field thereby producing a sudden impulse of energy,

second is the transforming properties of the odd harmonic ordered single wire delay line (coil) which allow for the production of enormous E.M.F. and M.M.F.,

and third, the dielectric phenomena surrounding the free space capacity terminal.

Whithout these extremly steep impulses, what is being called "radiant energy" is basically longitudinal dielectric (or electrostatic) waves, *without* magnetic component, which propagate at a speed of pi/2 times the speed of normal, transverse waves, irrespective of the medium. So, the medium may also be a coil, which means you can also find specific transverse resonance frequencies as well as specific longitudinal resonance frequencies in a coil, provided you terminate your coils correctly. And you have to make sure your coils are in the proper resonance mode.

Eric Dollard also posted some suggestions:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post172894

Characteristic for the longitudinal mode is that the wave travels in the length direction of the coil, perpendicular with respect to the coil windings, but it may also be possible to create higher order resonance modes whereby the longitudinal wave follows the coil winding, because it looks like you can also get a dipole antenna to resonate in a longitudinal resonance mode. At least my dipole prototype has a near perfect SWR at the designed frequency, according to the ham that tested it:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post173559

This antenna also has interesting parallels to Tesla's TMT, especially when one realizes that Tesla also had a 1/4 lambda (I assume) "antenna" structure buried into the ground:
http://www.tuks.nl/img/Anderson%20Drawing.jpg

You can more or less say that my 1/4 lambda whip antenna can be compared to the above ground part of the TMT, while the other half of the dipole is the part Tesla buried underneath the surface of the Earth.....

The pieces of the puzzle are slowly coming together more and more...
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  #2533  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:23 PM
Wicaksono Wicaksono is offline
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E. V Gray "insider"

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Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
If I understand my dates correctly Peter was still in high school at the time. He did have an active interest in this technology but was denied any opportunity for an interview. It seems he was not in a position to be an "Insider" despite his desire to do so.

He later was able to talk with a few relatives but was largely black-balled by the rest of the family.

Peter received the Tom Valentine research documents years later and that became the foundation of his book:"The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity".

I speculate that Dr. Gray assumed that Peter must have been an "Insider" to have such a vast knowledge of the E.V. Gray history.
Thanks Mr. McKay, if Mr. James Gray assumes this, then by his definition you should be an "insider" of E. V. Gray group. Well, please continue your NST experiment, I still have tons of ideas to check with.

Wicaksono
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:50 PM
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Spokane1

We have enough data to make conclusions. Large electrostatic field around device, recreating lightning (which is electrostatic discharge) and huge magnetic field impulse from special custom made coils.

Coils you will find in early Tesla lecture from 1893, powered by single line Tesla currents (commonly known as radiant electricity or cold current).

Kapanadze and Don Smith used the same technique to convert cold current into hot current (from magnetic induction) and this knowledge slowly emerge (from a total mess of disinformation) mostly due to Russian fellows experimenting days and nights like crazy and some brave wise persons here and there (vide Don Smith thread). If you short two kinds of cold currents , strong magnetic impulse is generated, the same if one kind of cold current is shifted in phase and interfence with itself (as Tesla did).Vide various caduceus coil experiments and other very strange coils used nowadays.Power by simplicity.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:35 PM
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Comparing Tesla Tower and Gray tube

Yesterday, I posted some info on the Tesla tower, where I proposed there may have been a structure like a sleeve/bazooka balun under ground in Tesla's actual tower:


Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post

I am just thinking about Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower, after printing the so-called Anderson drawing:

Wardenclyffe Tunnels Investigation

<snip>

(high res version here: http://www.tuks.nl/img/Anderson%20Drawing.jpg )

<snip>

An interesting detail on this Anderson drawing is that the mains power is fed to the bottom of the shaft, suggesting that the transmitter transformer must have been positioned at the bottom of the 120 feet deeo shaft, a shaft that has been plated with iron.

This suggests that the shaft may have functioned similar to a sleeve / bazooka balun as I use in my longitudinal dipole antenna:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post172852

Such a balun is essentially a short-circuited transmission line:

Antenna Theory - Bazooka Baluns

Quote:
The green sleeve in Figures 1 and 2 acts as a transmission line, that is short circuited at the end. From Gauss's law, it is (basically) true that the current on the inside of the outer arm of the bazooka (green line) must be the opposite of that flowing on the outside of the coax (grey line). Hence, the current IC actually sees a short-circuited transmission line. If the length L of the sleeve is chosen to be a quarter-wavelength (at the desired frequency of operation), then the impedance that the current IC sees is infinite (this is the principle of a short-circuited quarter-wave transmission line - see the impedance page for a brief introduction to transmission line theory).
So, if you think away the coax core, then you would essentially have a structure that keeps the current (== magnetic component) above the bottom of the shaft in Tesla's case and therefore the only component that can propagate along the 300 feet 1/2 lambda iron "earth grip" starting at the bottom of the shaft would be a longitudinal dielectric wave....

<snip>
Now compare this sleeve/balun thing to Gray's tube and one of Tesla's earlier sketches of his tower:


This suggests that the grids may very well be a short-circuited 1/4 lambda transmission line / balun, such as I use in my longitudinal antenna design, which appears to block any current to flow out at the bottom part of the balun, while it's voltage does vary.

So, if the grids work along the same principle, you would get a longitudinal dielectric (current and magnetic field free) wave propagating from the bottom of the balun, which would be terminal 60.

If that were true, then the central rod would have to be acting like an oscillating coil, whereby the length of the grids would have to be 1/4 lambda longitudinal (pi/2 times as large as the corresponding transverse lambda for the same frequency). If the length of the grids were about 10 cm, then we would be talking about a resonance frequency just a bit over 1 GHz.

If this is the basic operation principle, then you would have to match the length of the wire from the HV capacitor trough the main rod to the spark gap to be some multiple of 1/4 lambda.


I have no idea if this is correct or not, but it may be helpful...


Update: earlier experiments by Tad Johnson a.o. does suggest the use of high(er) frequencies may very well be of importance:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/MKay5.pdf

Quote:
(Tad Johnson) The frequency is adjustable to a degree through adjustment of the spark gap distance and cap size. The caps I am using are 500pF so frequency should be in the KHz range depending on how much amperage the power supply is charging the stack with. Just got the HV resistors today. All I have left to do is build the CSET and figure out the charging circuit. Hydrogen or magnetically quenched gap on the output might be added later for even higher frequency and more protection against current reversals.

[...]

(Tad Johnson) Interesting findings after running the Gray circuit for a couple hours:
ERE does NOT manifest if there is no resistor on the spark gap end of the CSET. Repeat ZERO POWER if no resistor in place. The more resistance, the more the effect appears to manifest.
With 300 Ohm or more of resistance the grid starts to put off a FRIGHTENING amount of power.
Enough to smoke a 50watt, 500 ohm resistor in less than 30 seconds. My input was 12 watts total from the wall. Output from the CSET grid is UNMEASURABLE. Grounding is also becoming an issue since I cannot run the end of the CSET back to ground with a resistor in between. Also, the energy coming off the grid appears to be harmful even with fast rise and fall times contrary to other information out there.
Anyone have any bright ideas on measuring this high amperage, high voltage energy I would be very happy. We need accurate wattage out at this point. I feel confident already with my input measurements.

Last edited by lamare; 01-05-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:32 PM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Lecture #8 - A Closer Look at the FFF

Consider the attached photo [FFF Cables Low Resolution]. This is snap shot taken by GD in 1974 on his second trip to Van Nuys, CA. By this time Richard Hackenberger was pretty well finished with his first remodel of the EMA4 to become the EMA4-E2. Look at the huge (4” diameter) bundle of black cables in the center of the photo. These are the FFF cables. This photo establishes that the Floating Flux Field (FFF) cables are indeed composed of a collection of large single cables (0.500” to 0.625” diameter) rather than a being a single cable wound in a two layer solenoid fashion.

The overall intent of this remodel seems to have been a quest for higher horse power. This is because the volume provided for the supporting power supplies had been doubled with the addition of new large enclosure mounted behind and under the engine. It is unknown just what kind of performance these improvements accomplished. It is my thought that Richard was converting the mechanical vibrator choppers over to higher current transistor methods and needed a lot more room for heat sinks and fans. Most likely he made other improvements as well.

With these system changes the FFF cables now had to be rewired to this new enclosure. Originally they were terminated to the old enclosure that sat on the top of the engine. From the photo you can see that these cables had to be lengthened by about 3’ – 4’ to reach their new destination.

You know, that’s a lot of work and expense. Just why did the FFF have to be mounted at that location to properly function anyway? It was in the middle-exterior of the Engine’s case. If the FFF were a simple delay line (as hinted at in the patent), or an inductor, or any other passive component it wouldn’t matter where it was located. It would have made more engineering sense to strap those18 each single loops just under the new enclosure. So what was available on the engine case equator that wasn’t to be found elsewhere?

The only classical reason I can come up with is that it was to take advantage of the large moving magnetic fields that would be generated in that area. These would be taking place at 18 pulses per revolution each moving in 13 degree steps at 500 rpm or more. So, this layout would almost be a rotating field. If the torque that the engine developed were due to huge repulsive magnetic pulses – resulting from the dissipation of some anomalous energy then, there would be some significant flux escaping from the engine case. Since the case was thick aluminum some attenuation would take place, but there would still be a lot of leakage since the electromagnets are open core. How much? It would take a FEMM analysis to see the basic shape of the field but the magnitude would be a just a guess since we know nothing about the properties of the Cold Electricity, Radiant Energy particles or whatever was responsible for the large rotation force.

Apparently, at face value, the FFF needs to be acted upon by a magnetic field traveling at some minimum velocity or another idea similar to this concept.

The big observable difference between the previous cannibalized EMA3 Engine and the EMA4 Engine is that the space between the front and back electro-magnets had been increased by about two inches. Was this done to better focus the leakage flux into the FFF?

Another thing to consider: It has been reported that when the EMA4 Engine when running it would develop a huge electrostatic charge. This would imply that the Engine case was becoming charged. But this is difficult to achieve since the case is connected (by a large cable) to the lowest potential of the lead-acid battery array. But supposing it was the FFF that was becoming charged? The size of the HV cables could certainly contain some high potential. If they were responsible for the reported electrostatic field then it would be difficult to establish the true source, wither it came from the case or the FFF. To maintain such a high potential the cables would certainly have to be “Floating” above the ground state and preferably all be of the same polarity.

If this high voltage (up to 100 kV) field did come from the FFF then how was that achieved with a pulsing DC 3 kV low current source? The circuit disclosed in the Pulse Engine patent was certainly not up to that task. I wonder what was removed that would allow those FFF cables to become that highly charged? A linear voltage multiplier?

After this photo Mr. Hackenberger made additional improvements. He replaced the single loop FFF with what appears to be a double loop using smaller diameter cable. Obviously, he was exploring changes to the FFF to enhance performance. Not long after this the entire setup was confiscated by the LA DA and destroyed.

The next Free energy Engine, the EMA6, does not sport an obvious FFF component. I think it’s still there only hidden much better. Most likely it was located in the three power supplies. If a moving magnetic field was a requirement, then Richard was able to figure out a workaround solution.

The attached drawing shows the location of the FFF cables (the 18 each little circles on the outside of the Engine case in the middle) in relation to the end-to-end spacing of the "Major" electromagnets.

Mark McKay
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FFF Cables Low Resolution.jpg (67.0 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg EM4 Cross Section Elevation.jpg (186.5 KB, 30 views)
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:59 PM
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Lamare,brilliant idea ! This bazooka balun is the missing key I believe .Grids are shorted on one end only.

Is there possible to have more then one bazooka balun one on another ?
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boguslaw View Post
Lamare,brilliant idea ! This bazooka balun is the missing key I believe .Grids are shorted on one end only.

Is there possible to have more then one bazooka balun one on another ?

Hmm. Good question. Looks like that is called a choke ring:
Choke ring antenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UNAVCO Knowledgebase :: Choke Ring Antenna Calibrations


I do think the same principle can be used in Joulethief / SEC exciter circuits. Just finished a drawing I intented to post in tje JT thread:


Hi-res version: http://www.tuks.nl/img/Lamare_Sleeve_Coil.jpg

The idea would be to use a Hartley oscillator, as I posted before:
Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

Update: Posted some further details here: Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

Last edited by lamare; 01-06-2012 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:22 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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High Frequencies in the Operaqtion of the CEST

Dear lamare,

Doesn't a Bazooka Balun have a very limited operational band width? (unlike a transmission line transformer Balun) If so then the working frequency could be calculated from the dimensions of the CEST sections.

Well, we know that EMA6 CEST rings were about 1.5" in length. Boy, that means that the operational frequency has got to be right up there in the several hundred MHz range.

It's hard for me to see how such a high frequency could be employed in this device by looking at the cables connecting to this component. The wires that are connected from the so called capacitor cans are #10 magnet wire with no standoffs or other RF protection. The cables that leave and go to the engine could be white coax, but the terminations do not fit with what is used when working with RF. There is no evidence of any kind of shielding. If RF at these frequecies were being generated then the lossses would have been huge. Perhaps they had so much OU that it didn't matter, but I doubt it.

Something doesn't add up, then again The FCC wouldn't have confiscated and destroyed this machine in 1977 if it wasn't radiating an EMI signiture in excess of 10 watts or more.

Mark McKay
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:37 AM
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Dear Mark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
Doesn't a Bazooka Balun have a very limited operational band width? (unlike a transmission line transformer Balun) If so then the working frequency could be calculated from the dimensions of the CEST sections.
Yes, it has a limited bandwidth, but I am pretty sure it also works at higher harmonics. And if this is an important ingredient, it will have to include higher harmonics, because it would need to work with impulses (steep rising edge, soft falling edge) rather than harmonic oscillations in order to be capable of energizing an iron core coil. According to Dollard, it is possible to create extreme impulses with TMT-like devices, even though I do not yet understand this completely. See my earlier post: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...is-motors.html.

But we will know more about the bandwidth of the balun soon, because I will have my antenna analysed at january 14th. Then there is a "measuring day" by a ham group at about about an hours drive from my home, where there is measuring equipment available a radio amateur can only dream of:

PAmicrowaves - Home

A quick translation of the available equipment:
Quote:
- Sweepers 0-26 GHz
- Spectrumanalyzers up to 26 GHz.
- Spectrumanalyzer 10KHz - 3.8GHz + Tracking generator ; For measuring Filters, couplers, SWR and signals.
- Measuring transmitter 10Khz - 3.3GHz (AM, FM, CW, and pulse)
- SWR 5MHz - 3.0GHz (RF-SWR Bridge)
- Spectrumanalyzer up to 325 GHz
- Vector netwerk analyzer up to 20 GHz
- Tektronix Videogenerator with sin x/x signal
- Tektronix VM700 video measuring set
- Barco Receiver I en II receiver/videodemodulator witht measuring probes for 23cm 13cm en 3cm,
- NKF videodemodulator with baseband input for measuring baseband atv modules.
- Spectrum analyser Agilent up to 3GHz.
- Noise figure meter up to 24 GHz
- Noise figure meter 47 GHz
- Powermeter up to 76 GHz
- Tuning unit 24 GHz Filters
- Signal generator from 0 to 18,6 GHZ (Mar 2031 / HP8673) FM narrow- and wideband, so also ATV.
- Spectrumanalyzer from 0 - 26,5 (of 31,8) GHz + Tracking to 2,7 GHz.
- AM - 70 cm ATV generator
- Counter to 24 GHz with rubidium stabilisation.
- Powermeter up to 250 Watt up to 2,5 GHz.
- Frequency standard 10 Mhz
It would be interesting to frequency analyse a Gray tube, but then we would need a probe that is capable of measuring longitudinal dielectric waves propagating along the surface of the output wire connected to the grids, and we would need a proper termination impedance or something (may be a reflective metal plate?) connected to the wire as well.


Anyway, for calculating the main resonance frequency, you would have to calculate with a wave propagation speed of pi/2 times the transverse propagation speed. The transverse propagation speed of air-core copper is in the order of 0,95 c, while for a dielectric filled coax cable you are talking in the order of 0,6 to 0,8 times c.


Quote:
Well, we know that EMA6 CEST rings were about 1.5" in length. Boy, that means that the operational frequency has got to be right up there in the several hundred MHz range.
And a bandwidth much higher than that, because we would need impulses....

Quote:
It's hard for me to see how such a high frequency could be employed in this device by looking at the cables connecting to this component. The wires that are connected from the so called capacitor cans are #10 magnet wire with no standoffs or other RF protection. The cables that leave and go to the engine could be white coax, but the terminations do not fit with what is used when working with RF. There is no evidence of any kind of shielding. If RF at these frequecies were being generated then the lossses would have been huge. Perhaps they had so much OU that it didn't matter, but I doubt it.
In order to understand this, you have to realize that an important characteristic of longitudinal dielectric waves is that they propagate along the direction of the conductor, whereby the conductor acts as a wave guide.

And since the wave is guided along your wire, it does not radiate away from your wire just like that. It keeps on propagating back and forth along your wire / wave guide. While this may raise some problems for me with my moon bounce experiment, it is a very nice characteristic for extremely low-loss energy transport.

This is also possible with a so-called E-line ( Directory contents of /pdf/Patents/Elmore/ ) which is basically a transverse magnetic, longitudinal electric propagation mode that still has a magnetic component ( http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post172991 ), but the longitudinal dielectric wave we are after does NOT have a magnetic component.

It appears that in order to get the TM magnetic mode to propagate along an unshielded wire you need "launchers/catchers" ( http://www.tuks.nl/img/launcher.jpg ) , while for the longitudinal dielectric wave you don' t need them. Otherwise Tesla's one-wire transmission system would not have worked....

To sum this up: longitudinal dielectric waves propagate at a speed much faster than transverse waves, have no magnetic component and don't radiate away from a wire but rather follow it as in a wave-guide.

Quote:
Something doesn't add up, then again The FCC wouldn't have confiscated and destroyed this machine in 1977 if it wasn't radiating an EMI signiture in excess of 10 watts or more.
Considering the amount of power generated by the device, 10 Watts is only a fraction. And you can never get 100% pure dielectric waves along a conductor, because the movements of the electrons in the wire will also create some kind of TEM wave as well, which does radiate. The interesting detail is that because of the difference in propagation speed, you never have a situation that both the TEM and the longitudinal dielectric waves resonate at the same frequency. So, when you have resonance in one mode, the other mode is suppressed substantially because it does not resonate. But it is never completely gone and therefore you get some losses, especially if you do not specifically design your system to prevent these losses as much as possible.

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Old 01-07-2012, 12:05 PM
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My thoughts : when due to EMI device was confiscated in 1977 there was the end already because device was not tuned, spark gap in element 42 generated huge amount of radio waves instead of working silently. Here is the connection with kapanadze silent spark gap. In 2005 I experimented with car coil driver wih very low frequency between 50 and 100Hz crude one. I tried to get working incandescent bulb as a plasma globe without comprehention that circuit produce too low frequency. Suddenly parameters (wire length frequency grounding to large iron vice and a few others) match and I've got stinging sensation in air very intense for this amount of power. I remember that I tried also to build Gray tube and ended with two copper tubes connected on one and by wire and insulated from each other by rubber pieces. I don't know why I wanted to test such strange experiment but I took large screew insulated on both ends and placed a metal paper clip below as a spark gap. Then I placed it like in Gray tube inside copper shield and everything inside car coil HV terminal standing up. In the end when I grounded device spark gap become silent and fluctuating while still white-yellow in colour - incredible experience if you experimented with HV sparks - white sparks are loud producing cracking sound. Definitely there was energy redirection here ! I have tried to recreate this experiment and that one with incandescent bulb without success
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:39 AM
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Best Wishes for Moon Bounce Experiment

Dear lamare,

I offer my best professional wishes for you and your group's attempt to bounce longitudinal waves off the Moon. It is nice to see an organized group effort come together to explore new phenomena.

Mark McKay
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:46 AM
Spokane1 Spokane1 is offline
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Non-repeatable Observations

Dear Boguslaw,

It's a ***** when we observe something interesting - then can't get it to happen again. Usually this takes place just as some critical component blows out. After it is replaced the circuit never works the same.

I have had this happen with a Tesla Coil that was causing every metal obgect in the shop to emit blue sparks - before the NST fried. Never could get it to do this again (1994)

Transistors a great for giving spectaluar results before they self destruct as well.

All I can say is hang in there. At least you have the circuit schematic of what cause the anomalous behavious. We don't even have that much for the Gray Technology.

Mark McKay
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
Dear Boguslaw,

It's a ***** when we observe something interesting - then can't get it to happen again. Usually this takes place just as some critical component blows out. After it is replaced the circuit never works the same.

I have had this happen with a Tesla Coil that was causing every metal obgect in the shop to emit blue sparks - before the NST fried. Never could get it to do this again (1994)

Transistors a great for giving spectaluar results before they self destruct as well.

All I can say is hang in there. At least you have the circuit schematic of what cause the anomalous behavious. We don't even have that much for the Gray Technology.

Mark McKay
AS I said it was related to cables I was using and place when experiment was done with large metal tabletop with big iron vice as a ground. Every metal around up to 2-3 meters from active device was charged but not to the point of bluish sparks coming out of it but like when you are charged by rubbing and got shock when touching grounded metal.Also stinging sensation was clearly felt.My friend who is EE was in place and was amused by the amount of energy radiation in air from this 36W input. Later I've found that my battery was depleted and I have never bring it to good shape again.End of story.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:57 PM
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alternating electrostatic field

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Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post
I have had this happen with a Tesla Coil that was causing every metal obgect in the shop to emit blue sparks - before the NST fried. Never could get it to do this again (1994)
Hello Mr. McKay, a repeating of Nikola Tesla's "alternating electrostatic field" :

Inventions, Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla - Thomas Commerford Martin - Google Books

At least we know that this is an electrostatic phenomena.

Wicaksono
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:08 PM
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Why a triode and no diode in the patent?

I have just been trough some documents and stuff, a.o. some of Mark's documents he sent me to publish at my site:
Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/McKay_Gray_Material/

At some point, I took a look at the triode, which has been used by Gray in his stuff and has somehow been replaced by a diode by later experimenters, under the assumption that this was just a simple diode. However, there are other diodes in Gray's circuit so Gray's engineers clearly were aware of the existence of the semiconductor diode. So, how come they used an old-fashioned triode and not a much simpler semiconductor diode?

There is an interesting detail about the working of a triode:
The triode : ELECTRON TUBES
Quote:
Another problem with triode behavior is that of stray capacitance. Remember that any time we have two conductive surfaces separated by an insulating medium, a capacitor will be formed. Any voltage between those two conductive surfaces will generate an electric field within that insulating region, potentially storing energy and introducing reactance into a circuit. Such is the case with the triode, most problematically between the grid and the plate. It is as if there were tiny capacitors connected between the pairs of elements in the tube:


Now, this stray capacitance is quite small, and the reactive impedances usually high. Usually, that is, unless radio frequencies are being dealt with. As we saw with De Forest's Audion tube, radio was probably the prime application for this new technology, so these "tiny" capacitances became more than just a potential problem. Another refinement in tube technology was necessary to overcome the limitations of the triode.
Essential for the operation of a triode tube is that the cathode needs to be heated in order to emit electrons that become a current once an electric field is applied. So, with such a tube you only need an electric field in order to get a current, without the need to feed the thing an electron-based current yourself!

In other words: the triode is voltage driven and not current driven.

Typical capacitances are very low:
Miller Capacitance
Quote:
The majority of the input capacitance of a triode stage is made up of the combination of the grid-to-cathode capacitance, plus the Miller capacitance formed by the grid-to-plate capacitance multiplied by the stage gain plus one. The formula for determining the total input capacitance of a triode stage is as follows:

Cin = Cgk + Cgp*(A+1)

where: Cin = input capacitance
Cgk = grid-to-cathode capacitance, composed of the internal tube capacitance plus the stray capacitance
Cgp = grid-to-plate capacitance, composed of the internal tube capacitance plus the stray capacitance
A = stage gain

The typical interelement capacitances are very small, but, as can be seen from the above equation, the grid-to-plate capacitance is multiplied by the gain of the tube stage plus one, so if the gain is large, the capacitance can very easily become significant, resulting in audible rolloff in frequency response.

Example

For example, a typical 12AX7 stage has the following capacitances and gain:

Cgk = 1.6pF + 0.7pF stray = 2.3pF
Cgp = 1.7pF + 0.7pF stray = 2.4pF
A = 61

Therefore, the total input capacitance would be:

Cin = 2.3pF + (61+1)* 2.4pF = 151.1pF
Besides that, the cathode consists of a considerable surface of metal (compared to a silicon diode) which reflects HF waves up to a certain degree.

Now if we assume that somehow longitudinal dielectric waves were used in the operation of Gray's stuff, we would have a wave that is free of any electron-based current and magnetic fields and propagates at a speed of pi/2 times the speed of a transverse wave. In order for such a wave to be created by the rods across the spark gap, you would need it to resonate.

An interesting detail with regards to a resonating conductor is that at resonance, you either have a longitudinal dielectric wave OR a transverse wave. For a certain length of wire, for example, the 1/2 lambda longitudinal resonance frequency corresponds to 3/4 lambda transverse:

pi/2 * 1/2 = 0,785398163
multiply that by 4/3 and we get: 1,04719755

So, whenever one of the two waves is in resonance, the other one is almost completely supressed!

All right. Now if we want to get our main rod spark gap antenna into a longitudinal resonance mode, we do have to make sure the top of our "antenna" is not too heavily loaded *and* we have to make sure our spark gap is in it's negative resistance region of operation. Which means you need a DC bias current going trough it, preferably one you can adjust.

Now with a semiconductor diode, you have no way of controlling the bias trough your spark gap. But, with a triode, you have a grid...

A grid that is there for the purpose of *controlling* the amount of current going trough the cathode. You know, the connection to your spark gap. In other words: you can bias your spark gap with the triode grid and thus make sure the spark gap operates in it's negative resistance mode.

The mode needed in order for it to amplify/sustain an oscillation in a series LC circuit, whereby your spark-gap is in series with the L and one or more C's.

For the frequency of your LC circuit, the capacitance of the cathode appears to be the smallest one, so that one would determine your oscillation frequency, together with the L of the rod and the other capacitances in there, like the one between the rod and the grids of the CSET.

So, high voltage capacitor 16 discharges trough the spark gap to establish the arc and put the spark gap into its negative resistance region of operation, whereby the grid of the triode controls the current and therefore discharge time of capacitor 16.

Once the spark gap is into it's negative resistance mode, the rod forms a HF series resonance circuit together with the capacitance of the grid-kathode capacitance, whereby the grid is connected to a DC voltage.

Because of the bazooka/sleeve balun in the shape of the CSET grids, no HF magnetic field can be established at the resonance frequency, and therefore you get a longitudinal resonance mode in your system in a very similar way as what I do with my longitudinal antenna design....

To make a long story short:
1) you DO need a triode and NOT a diode
2) you DO need extra circuitry in order to bias the spark gap trough the grid of your triode...

Any questions?


Last edited by lamare; 01-10-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:06 AM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Circumference of coils related to wavelength?

I just realized that the circumference of the load coils may be an important parameter too:


Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
The experiments by Stiffler and earlier Spice simulations ( Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki ) suggest that with Hartley oscillators using only coils (no external C in your tank circuit) you get a wideband signal, which appears to consist of the natural resonance frequency of your coil and higher order harmonics thereof. This suggests that these kinds of oscillators, with a strong feedback to the transistor, may indeed generate impulses rather than harmonic oscillations (under certain conditions?).

However, that does not mean one can easily energize a coil with a coil-based oscillator, because the operation frequency thereof lies in the order of 1 - 30 MHz with long wavelengths expressed in meters. If this theory is correct, then Gray's device must have worked in the GHz range, with wavelengths expressed in centimeters, which is also suggested by the geometry of his CSET.

It appears that longitudinal waves with these kinds of short wavelengths are capable of propagating circular around a coil, especially if the circumference of the coil is such that it is a whole number of longitudinal wavelengths, and are thus capable of energizing the coil as well as a core. Provided the waves are impulses, rather than harmonic oscillations.
For calculation of these circular resonances, we have the Schumann formula:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post

I finally found some formula that describe surface resonances occuring on an ideal sphere. We all know them. Schumann resonances:
Schumann resonances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Basic theory

Lightning discharges are considered to be the primary natural source of Schumann resonance excitation; lightning channels behave like huge antennas that radiate electromagnetic energy at frequencies below about 100 kHz.[20] These signals are very weak at large distances from the lightning source, but the Earth–ionosphere waveguide behaves like a resonator at ELF frequencies and amplifies the spectral signals from lightning at the resonance frequencies.[20]

In an ideal cavity, the resonant frequency of the n-th mode fn is determined by the Earth radius a and the speed of light c.[11]

f_n= c/(2*pi*a) * sqrt(n(n+1))

The real Earth–ionosphere waveguide is not a perfect electromagnetic resonant cavity. Losses due to finite ionosphere electrical conductivity lower the propagation speed of electromagnetic signals in the cavity, resulting in a resonance frequency that is lower than would be expected in an ideal case, and the observed peaks are wide. In addition, there are a number of horizontal asymmetries – day-night difference in the height of the ionosphere, latitudinal changes in the Earth magnetic field, sudden ionospheric disturbances, polar cap absorption, etc. that produce other effects in the Schumann resonance power spectra.
Of course, we would have to calculate with the correct wave propagation speed, which would be pi/2 times c....


Update:

Spark gap oscillators have been used at frequencies up to 60 GHz, already in the late 1800's:

J.C. Bose: 60 GHz in the 1890s
Quote:
Figure 3 (a) shows Bose's diagram of one of his radiators, used for generating 5-mm radiation. Oscillation is produced by sparking between 2 hollow hemispheres and the interposed sphere.



Energy Citations Database (ECD) - - Document #6386956
Quote:
Spark switched L-C Oscillator (LCO) transmitters have operated in the Low, Medium, and High Frequency Bands (10's of kHz to 10's of MHz) throughout the history of radio. In the 1970's they were pushed into the vhf Band by Moran, et al. By applying ultra-fast gas switching techniques and by overcoming spark gap losses the authors have operated LCO transmitters in the uhf (300 MHz to 3 GHz) region. Repetition rates >1 kHz with peak voltages >100 kV have been achieved.

Technical Tidbit - June 2001, A Static Field Powered EMI Source
Quote:
The characteristics of a spark are determined mostly by the arc length. A number of factors influence arc length including voltage, speed of approach for moving pieces, and atmospheric conditions. The gap in Figure 2 is a fraction of a millimeter. For such a small gap, the risetime of the current when a spark forms is very fast and the current waveform is repeatable. Low voltage ESD events, a few hundred volts or less, can have risetimes in the tens of picoseconds range. A high voltage spark with a relatively long arc length results in a slower risetime of the current and the current waveform may vary between successive sparks. A 10 kV discharge may have risetimes of tens of nanoseconds. The resultant di/dt for a small, low voltage, arc is higher than for high voltage events and in many instances is more likely to result in a system upset.
http://www.w9smc.com/SMC%20VHF/on_the_ultra_highs.pdf
Quote:
At one point, Hertz even made a “small oscillator”, which was merely composed of two spheres attached to very radiating small wires. It operated around 500,000,000 vibrations per second, somewhat above today’s amateur 432 MHz band. Hertz then made a parabolic device that produced waves possibly as high as 500 Mc to 1 GHz.

[...]

Subsequent to Hertz’s experiments in the ultra-high range, other researchers generated spark transmissions at even higher frequencies. Professor Righi immersed a spark gap in oil to generate oscillations at 3,000,000,000 vibrations per second (3 GHz). He then decreased the size of the spheres, and obtained oscillations four times as rapid. Professor Jagadis Chunder Bose used three platinum spheres placed in a small box. Platinum was used instead of brass to prevent the spheres from quickly deteriorating. He produced spark radiations at an incredible wavelength of six millimeters (somewhere around today’s 50 GHz). Bose commented that he was then within 13 octaves of visible light.
So, it appears high frequencies can definately be obtained using spark gap oscillators...

Last edited by lamare; 01-10-2012 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:52 AM
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yes,I believe the essence is that triod is a source of electrons and based on thyratron used quite a big current is generated. In summary here is adjustable ground connection via spark gap to balun antenna.We are closer. Element 42 could be wrongly drawn or just a switching device which shorts capacitor and then collect "something" to recharge capacitor from running coils (bemf or electrostatic charge running along wires) - kind of electrostatic relay normally shorting capacitor but when electrostatic charge occur in wire connected to running coils then connection is established to recharge capacitor.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:38 PM
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Diodes, Triodes, and Thyratrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
To make a long story short:
1) you DO need a triode and NOT a diode
2) you DO need extra circuitry in order to bias the spark gap trough the grid of your triode...
Dear lamare,

A very good analysis on your part.

The CEST patent was written in 1985. This was five years after Gray and Hack had spent 18 months working in Dodge City, KS where they built the last Free Energy Engine (the "Blue" Engine).

When Gray came back to San Diego to begin his Great Return he had a truck load of all these experimental prototypes (mostly renovated old pulse motors) that Hack had worked on.

According Nelson Schlaft :"Rocky" when he went to work for Gray in 1980 all of these "Motors" had Ignitrons already installed on them. These were triggered with Thyratrons that were driven by other vacuum tubes. Rocky removed all the vacuum tube eleectonics and replaced it with his design of a very simple Zener diode trigger approach. This can still be seen today on the "Gold" Motor owned by Al Francouer.

In 1973 Gray didn't even know what a Thyratron was. But by 1980 I'm sure he had seen the schematic symbol for one several times. So, when he cobbled the patent application together for the bogus CSET (my opinion) he upgraded his schematic with these newer symbols. But of course he left off all the advanced grid triggering system details.

My opinion on this issue (until better history arrives) is that the original 1973 CEST used a solid state diode. The whole purpose of CEST setup was a HV switching device to gate the "Cold Electricity" from the storage capacitor into the opposing electromagnets in the Engine. By 1979 the CEST to have been replaced with industrial welding ignitrons.

Furthermore I suspect that Richard needed some fancy and precise switching for those Ignitorns. Perhaps for speed control. If he didn't he would have come up with the simple system that Rocy employed.

None of the technicians that Gray hired in 1980 could figure out just what Hack was attempting to do. So, all of the successful 1979 development circuits were tossed into the garbage can due to Gray's near complete lack of understanding of the technology.

As I understand it, an Ignitorn needs a brief currrent pulse in order to turn on quickly. It will eventually respond to a voltage pulse but the switching time is much more unstable. The use of a thyratron to switch an Ignitorn is very common in arc welder design.

So, Solid state diodes, thyratrons, ignitorns, and small triodes have all been used at one time or another in the Gray technology.

Mark McKay
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokane1 View Post

My opinion on this issue (until better history arrives) is that the original 1973 CEST used a solid state diode. The whole purpose of CEST setup was a HV switching device to gate the "Cold Electricity" from the storage capacitor into the opposing electromagnets in the Engine. By 1979 the CEST to have been replaced with industrial welding ignitrons.
That may be possible..

If the CSET works along the lines I sketched (i.e. pretty much like my antenna and Tesla's tower) then there ain't no other way than that the spark gap must have been biased such that it is in it's negative resistance mode of operation. The mode of operation that is used by the the specific spark gap oscillators known as the "Poulsen arc converter" the old-timers used:

Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Arc converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Unlike the spark-gap transmitter converter, the arc converter produces undamped or continuous waves (CW). This was an important feature as the use of damped waves resulted in lower transmitter efficiency and communications effectiveness, while covering the r.f. spectrum with interference. This more refined method for generating continuous-wave radio signals was initially developed by Danish inventor Valdemar Poulsen. The Poulsen arc converter can be likened to a continuous-duty-rated electric arc welder with a tuned circuit connected across the arc. The negative resistance characteristics of an electric arc permits the creation of a relaxation oscillator that converts direct current to radio frequency energy. The arc converter consisted of a water-cooled bronze chamber in which the arc burned in hydrogen gas between a carbon cathode and a water-cooled copper anode. Above and below this chamber there were two series field coils surrounding and energizing the two poles of the magnetic circuit. These poles projected into the chamber, one on each side of the arc to provide a magnetic field. This field helps to stabilize the arc and improve overall conversion efficiency. In today's world one can still find oscillators based on negative resistance devices; the tunnel diode is one of them.
In order to get a spark gap into it's negative resistance mode of operation, it needs to be biased with a specific DC current, depending on the parameters of the spark gap, most notably the distance between the electrodes, AFAIK.

So, in order to bias the spark gap, you basically need a current source. Some kind of device that gives you a constant current over a certain voltage area.

A solid state diode can do just that:

Diode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


When it breaks-down in reverse mode.

The mode you can find in Bedini's sketches and Aaron's drawing:


Only now we find a different truth: BOTH are correct.

With a silicon diode, you get your bias with the reverse characteristics of the silicon diode, while with the triode you need to apply an external bias voltage to the grid in order to bias your spark gap..




Update: Oops. Think before you press "post" lamare

In reverse breakdown, you get a constant voltage of course, not a constant current.

But in the reverse area before the breakdown, it looks like you DO get a reasonably constant curve over a reasonable area. So, I guess you could find a suitable diode with reverse characteristics such that you can bias your spark gap. I guess you would need something in the order of amps to do it, but such diodes may exist.

Update 2:
Meet the zener diode:
Zener Diode Tutorial
Quote:
The Zener diode is like a general-purpose signal diode consisting of a silicon PN junction. When biased in the forward direction it behaves just like a normal signal diode passing the rated current, but when a reverse voltage is applied to it the reverse saturation current remains fairly constant over a wide range of voltages. The reverse voltage increases until the diodes breakdown voltage VB is reached at which point a process called Avalanche Breakdown occurs in the depletion layer and the current flowing through the zener diode increases dramatically to the maximum circuit value (which is usually limited by a series resistor). This breakdown voltage point is called the "zener voltage" for zener diodes.
So, the question is: are there zener diodes with a fairly large reverse saturation current?

Last edited by lamare; 01-10-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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