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  #2221  
Old 03-03-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaght View Post

By skaght at 2011-03-02

I'm using an odd mix of high voltage diodes although I have some 1200 volt, 6 amp diodes on order which will replace the three HV diodes I'm currently using. The Relay is triggered with a basic transistor circuit and square wave generator. The circuit works best at about 1 Hz.
Skaght, you have a nice clean setup there, but I'd change one thing: replace that 22k resistor with a choke of high self inductance (or perhaps high NEGATIVE self inductance[bucking coils]), and put one on the negative side also... Tesla always charged through inductors, never resistors... they dissipate energy as heat.
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  #2222  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:24 PM
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battery charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by skaght View Post
@Aaron--I used your schematic for the original circuit. Have you seen any "negative energy" battery charging effects??? I'd love to charge a battery with negative energy and see some of the strange phenomenon that Bearden talks about...

And I agree with you, I wouldn't be surprised if the battery exploded. The circuit blew up a 1 ohm resistor in some earlier experiments. At least I'd guess that it shouldn't be a fire hazard as the circuit does seem to run cold.
skaght,

The strongest effect on batteries were cap dumps with mechanical points.

The "e-amp" method was the second best I saw - and it was consistently
a stronger charge than normal.

With these Gray type plasma circuits, I have charged batteries in a
number of ways. The one I tried the most was exactly where you have
your battery indicated. But I was using booster caps in parallel with the
gap. The battery such as a 12v 7ah gel cell charged quite strong but
I think a lot of safety considerations need to be checked out.

One thing is that there can be an oscillation with reversed currents on
that line the battery is one. You can see it if you use a current sensing
resistor between the gap and ground or possibly between the neg of
batt and ground. With the oscillation, it is neutralizing your charging
effect. Perhaps putting diodes on both sides of the battery so the
positive voltage potential moves in one direction, over gap, to batt +
and towards ground will keep everything straight.

I haven't had time to test this particular way (w/diodes on both sides)
but from what I see lately on my scope from my new cap charging
circuit, it would definitely be the next thing I'd try.
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  #2223  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:57 PM
skaght skaght is offline
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I like the idea of using coils rather than my resistor, but I'm using a vintage high voltage tube power supply for the 200 volt supply. It's only rated at 100 mA so I want to be careful with it. Resistors let me know exactly how much current I'm drawing. For OU attempts, I'll switch out to a different source and I'll keep the coil charging scheme in mind!

I added a diode in series with the battery and I still get a negative voltage pulse on the battery. After initially charging positive, the battery now is loosing charge. I'm wondering if I'm just destroying my battery with the intensity of the reaction.
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  #2224  
Old 03-04-2011, 04:38 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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Post bogged

After the previous malfunctions my system was experiencing, I've obtained
some new parts and fitted things together again. A little puff of smoke
ended the reign of my 50mm fan motor for the CDI, and my 12V PC supply
turned into a firework, so my 12V battery is all that's left on that front.

The pictures will describe alot of what is going on... at this point I'm
obtaining the plasma burst by rectifying 120VAC, and for some reason it is
not pulling energy from the LV side caps like before. Identical gaps on the
electrodes. The LV blocking diodes are 6A 1000V just as before.

They're a brand new set, as it was the only component that I could have
imagined would have gone bad after getting the rest of it working. The
LV side is charging up to over 700V, and I've got a variac thats eventually
going to arrive to replace my current dependance on transistors.

In the meantime, troubleshooting has left me without a whole lot of options
on what could be going wrong. Have I possibly used too many LV-side blocking
diodes for the amount of energy emitting from the CDI?

The diode on my ignition coil is a new 30KV 10ma, so I had initially tried
a 47nF 400V cap on it to try and limit the current. It did not show any
visible gap on the electrodes, so my next choice was the one shown. This
diode was the part that wore out on my previous build, so I tried a string
of 30 1000V 1A and it didn't produce any output; that's when I went and got
a couple more of the HV ones.

I'd like to find an IC with lower output, or wind my own for getting
like 10KV... it would simplify finding these plasma diodes I'd think.

Anyway, its so close to working...


- - -
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  #2225  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:08 AM
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battery charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by skaght View Post
I added a diode in series with the battery and I still get a negative voltage pulse on the battery. After initially charging positive, the battery now is loosing charge. I'm wondering if I'm just destroying my battery with the intensity of the reaction.
Which side of the gap is that diode in series with the battery?

And do you have another so you have enough to put one on both sides
of the battery to see if that makes a difference?

You can follow the Gray analogy more closely by putting the battery
in a booster cap position with an opposing diode and when that diode
closes, the HV/plasma will go over the gap but the battery will receive
a pulse beforehand.
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  #2226  
Old 03-04-2011, 12:07 PM
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Post the battery solved it

It turns out my Ground electrode was drawing the plasma burst, but
without being connected to the (-) battery did not want to accept
the capacitor energy.

I'm uncertain as to why this is... is it that Ground sits at zero
potential, while the (-) pole mirrors the (+) voltage * (-1) ?

Anyway it does indeed send some magnetic force though the coil even
with a 47nF 400V on the ignitor.
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  #2227  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:23 AM
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Post coil recovery

Whatever is changed in the LV side capacitor energy as it spans incredible
gaps not normally possible without the plasma burst? I'm seeing the momentum
of the plasma energy carry it onto Ground, while the LV side capacitor bank
stays in range of the Battery.

Both positive potentials are occupying the same path until they are separated
once again at the terminal to ground when the plasma will be absorbed.

What amount of energy could be gained from using a transformer secondary
in series with the output and the primary connected across a storage capacitor?

I've also been questioning how it would be possible to collect the bEMF from
the output (motor) coil into a storage bank. Looking through a lot of N-pole
motor diagrams, it seems as though the halfwave rectifier will collect both
the front and back-EMF continuously...

If correct, this is my rendition of how it might be implemented. The HV signal
would be absorbing into ground, so I'd imagine the rectifier diodes wouldn't
need to handle any more than the amount of voltage being collected in the LV
side capacitor bank.

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  #2228  
Old 03-06-2011, 11:11 AM
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Post video results

There appear to be anomolous results in an experiment with a couple of
neodymium magnets sitting in the path of the radiant burst.

Video Frame Examination 200K jpeg
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  #2229  
Old 03-11-2011, 06:11 AM
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Post

Hi guys, I've finally hooked up my 800w inverter to a variac, and upon
sending the controlled output though a microwave transformer, a distinct
humming noise was emitting from the variac. The inverter has decided
to stop working, now throwing an error that the input voltage is too high,
even when tested on a car battery. Its designed for modified sine wave.

Subsequently upon connecting my digital meter across the output terminals
of the variac while connected to wallplug AC it has broken the meter.

I've got the system working from the grid through the variac, so it appears
to me that the modified sine wave is not compatible with the variac.

It has come down to building my own inverter. I would likely use the 800w
transformer from the previous inverter in the following setup. Has anyone
had experience with a circuit like this, or know of another way to generate
the sinewave output?

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  #2230  
Old 03-11-2011, 07:19 AM
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variac hum

That's pretty interesting with the magnets. The one in the reflection is
closer to what I think you would see if you took a picture with the flash
on with the lights on at the same time.

The variac will hum if the back pressures of the voltages are not tuned.
Doubling the voltage rating of my bridge from the MOT secondary eliminated
all that strain - didn't hold so much pressure in. Mine hummed a lot until
I did that - wasn't perfect but big improvement. MOT ran much cooler.
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  #2231  
Old 03-11-2011, 09:47 AM
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I've set my system up like the following diagram... the bridge was 2KV 6A,
and the battery dropping to 12.61v then juicing back a couple tenths of a
volt every once in a while*. It went on to boost a fully charged 12V battery
from around 12.7 to 12.85.

*using transistors in place of inverter - variac

With a meter on the way that will show inductance, I'll forgo looking into
obtaining a premanufactured 1uH inductor coil. The myriad of parts now available
sitting within the software-disabled 800w inverter surely must contain a number
of useable transistors...

I'll be doubling the bridge then, and with another previous inverter of 150w available
for parts I've become dedicated to customizing a solution. [website of 555 inverter]

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  #2232  
Old 03-11-2011, 06:37 PM
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@Geotron

Geotron,

It seems a little dangerous to have that battery connected to that
rod without diodes for a more controlled pulse to it.

The gap box is probably not necessary if you remove the battery connection
and just put an inductor on that line. You have the HV discharge over
to the LV rod, those diodes slam off and the only path to ground is over
that gap to charge the inductor while the current from the LV cap (1000v)
follows over the gap in the opposite direction mixing with the HV.

Also, the rating of your bridge from the MOT might not be an issue,
you are actually only using it as a half rectified "bridge". The AC from the
MOT should come into each side of the middle of the bridge and have
the DC side of the bridge both connected to the capacitor.

And of course make sure all three grounds are common.

Anyway, this is what seems to be more workable to me. You're getting
results, which is good, but definitely that bridge isn't being used as a
bridge.

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  #2233  
Old 03-12-2011, 05:25 AM
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Post

Its shown in my drawing connected without an inductor on the output back
to the (+) Bat, although in fact this part had been present so its mislabeled.

Initially I was experimenting with having the output go through a coil and
into the (+) side of a separate 12V battery powering a normal PC fan in pursuit
of finding whether or not this would work without blowing out the circuitry
present in the fan. With the (-) side of this battery connected to the cathode
of the LV side capacitors, it did not seem to effect the running of the fan,
even without diodes to protect the (-) fan pole. In the future I'll take your
advice and include such diodes, unless in fact your warning is in reference to
something entirely different.

Wow, thanks for straightening me out on the bridge rectifier... would you agree
this is the likely culprit for the damage incurred to the inverter?

Concerning the inverter circuit, I've been asking around at an electronics forum
about the way in which it may be scaled to supply additional power output, and
what kind of wattage may be obtained just from using it specificley as it is shown
in the diagram. The transistors being 6A, does this mean that 6A of 12V will
be available into the primary of the transformer? I've got a pile of 2n3055
already; if this is the case then all I'd need is 5 of them coupled with an
equivalent bank of 15A PNP transistors to get 7.5A of 120V.
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  #2234  
Old 03-12-2011, 07:15 AM
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Revised edition ...

following
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  #2235  
Old 03-12-2011, 08:45 AM
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@Geotron

Quote:
Originally Posted by geotron View Post
Revised edition -
Yes, I think that bridge issue was a problem for you.

The diagram is looking much better!

Just a couple things - the third point rod that goes to the inductor,
you should not have that tied directly to ground and the inductor at the
same time.

If it is to ground, you're going to be taking most everything straight to
ground - just grounding it out since that is the lowest path to ground
and it is a solid ground.

You 'could' put a small gap as an overshoot protection there but I wouldn't
make it a solid connection there - that is where you could put your
gap box.

If you battery has a common ground to the rest of the circuit, then
conceptually it should work. However, I really would not worry about any
recovery at this point - I'd do this:

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  #2236  
Old 03-12-2011, 10:15 AM
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Post amperage lost into oblivion

It seems that the way in which I've been harvesting the output from my
previous method of pulsing 12V into a voltage boosting circuit was then
inefficient... Perhaps revisited this may turn out to allow operation
of the LV power supply unit without further utilizing inverter technology.


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  #2237  
Old 03-12-2011, 01:20 PM
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I've updated the previous inverter diagram to show a more stable
version posted at circuitelectronic
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  #2238  
Old 03-15-2011, 05:55 PM
GreenPowa87 GreenPowa87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geotron View Post
That's an intriguing motor, I'm unfamiliar with how they are
constructed... unless you are referring to what is commonly thought
of as a Newman Motor design with the coils above and below
the extents the magnetic driveshaft.

I've found that the manner in which wirewound power resistors are
connected in series allows each of them to dissipate a certain amount
of energy depending on the supply voltage and their ohm value.
The lower your total ohm value, the quicker your plasma discharge
capacitor(s) will recharge.

The amperage rating of your 120V input diode must comply with
however much your resistors are drawing.

Thank you for reply,
The thing about newmans in my setup is about wire to be used not the engine design, he make some tests and find out that tinned copper wire is far more magnetically efficient.

Im not sure about engine, it either may be magnetic piston or magnetic repulsion, depending on my (lack of) abillity to calculate components for eds tube power supply,
i sow aaron setup on yt, im optimistic about it, but i think ill have problem with perfecting it- to make great discharges constant not only observable, to increase and stabilize frequency. AND IM REALLY WONDERING HOW IS HE DOING
Thank you once again,
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  #2239  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:41 AM
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glad to help

With 120V in, two 450v 4.7uf inline with 160ohms
of 10 10ohm 10w and 3 20ohm 15w does the trick.

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  #2240  
Old 03-18-2011, 06:55 AM
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Post gate activation

Concerning the use of an SCR diode, the following is what I've been able to
gather from its datasheet. In the case there is an error, anyone please feel free
to offer a correction.


...
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  #2241  
Old 03-18-2011, 06:41 PM
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high voltage side

hi aaron

please look attached image

i am going to add this to high voltage side in your three point system

it has high voltage high ampere output

have wonderful day
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  #2242  
Old 03-26-2011, 05:59 AM
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Post success & difficulty

It seems that the previous malfunctions my system was experiencing with
charging up the LV-side are no longer an issue. The system is working,
with the SCR I might add, the gate hooked to 120VDC through a 5K resistor.

While it is indeed working, there is still a serious glitch. With the
output going into the (-) battery post also hooked to the inverter, once
fired it will throw a voltage warning on the inverter and cause it to
shut down.

I've tried sending the output through the (+) side as well with an identical
result, as well as attaching 6A 1KV blocking diodes to the (-) inverter cable
pointing towards the battery to block any spikes - also with the same result.

What could I do to prevent this from happening? Attach a DC voltage regulator
in between the battery and inverter, or perhaps construct a battery swapper?

Daftman's Printable Diagrams
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  #2243  
Old 03-26-2011, 08:15 AM
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It seems as though a momentary gap in 12v to the inverter would
cause it to shut down....
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  #2244  
Old 03-26-2011, 09:37 AM
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Post motor performance pics

This is the motor constructed with a 1600ft 30g coil. The drag present
from the bolts isn't a huge amount, the LV caps are currently two 4 x 250v
22uf banks in parallel and it will spin quite a few times on a single
burst. The voltage pic is from spinning it by hand.



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  #2245  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:58 AM
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Post inverter VS the Tube malfunction idea

One of the 12v batteries I've got might have a bit of sulfation, and
this came to mind. The LV cap would see a little extra wouldn't it?

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  #2246  
Old 03-28-2011, 07:51 PM
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diagram

Geotron,

Do you have a full up to date diagram?
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  #2247  
Old 03-29-2011, 06:32 AM
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Post system overview

Here's what it looks like... the LV side is made from two banks of
4x 250v 22uf in parallel. I've not yet tried the battery setup as shown
previously in my last post.







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  #2248  
Old 03-30-2011, 06:55 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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Post the battery woo-hoo return

It looks as though I've still got to implement the diagram you posted
earlier Aaron, with the output connected to the inverter return pole.

The darn thing skipped right over me.
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  #2249  
Old 03-30-2011, 07:30 AM
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diagram

Geotron, the link you posted won't go directly to it.

You see the "Permalink" link at the top right, I don't know why but that
never goes to the post.

If you use the actual #XXXX link, that will go directly to the post.

There are a few tweaks needed to your diagram in the latest post, but you're
99% there.
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  #2250  
Old 03-30-2011, 07:54 AM
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@Geotron

Geotron,

This is all you have to do...

1. Leave B2 out of the picture.

2. Tie all three grounds with the blue circle together exactly
as I show.

If the MOT's cap is charged and you trigger the cap into the
primary of the ignition coil, you will get that coil to pulse. If
you do it exactly like that, you got it. When you confirm that,
just put a wheel with magnets over the coil and use a hall effect
sensor as a pickup from the magnets to trigger that SCR and
make it adjustable. Just make 110% sure the magnets on the
rotor will not break off in any way, shape or form or you'll
regret it. I had three 1/2" neos that are 1/2" thick in the rotor
I used. Rotor was machined to be press fit then I used as much
superglue as I could. If I get back to that particular setup, I'll
wrap a couple layers of packing tape around that whole thing
just in case - no joke.

By the way, the ground at the ignition coil, you want it right there
at the ground terminal so the HV will get right to it. You don't want
the ground after the scr.

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