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  #151  
Old 12-25-2008, 05:44 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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Has any one tried colliding two High Voltage potentials in a Grey Tube? http://www.tb3.com/tesla/ratcb2006/images/TB_1485.jpg
Wiring two (identical) ignition coils as shown here will give you two opposite high voltage potentials, that are attracted to each other.
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/images/..._diagram_3.jpg
Maybe place a neutral grid between them to intensify the radiant event?
I hooked up two of my coils together, But wired them + to + and - to- and arranged them 120 degrees two high voltage electrodes and one low voltage electrode. When I fired it up It pops loud like a capacitor discharge. (Note: my ignition coils were not identical) The high voltage spark, appeared to jump to each other and the low voltage electrode spark jumped toward the high voltage potentials and popped loudly, This is the first time I have ever seen the spark coming from the low voltage source (12V Battery) electrode. This was not done inside a Tube set-up. Also it could be that one coils output was higher than the other, and first jumped to the low voltage electrode then from the low voltage electrode to the other high voltage electrode. The sparking seemed to circulate between the three in a circular type pattern.
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  #152  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:34 AM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
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This is great!
Keep it up!
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  #153  
Old 12-26-2008, 03:06 AM
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Info on carbon that Tesla was using in his lamps....thought this might be relevant to grays tube design...

"Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency" by Nikola Tesla


In the course of these experiments a great many trials were made with all kinds of carbon buttons. Electrodes made of ordinary carbon buttons were decidedly more durable when the buttons were obtained by the application of enormous pressure. Electrodes prepared by depositing carbon in well known ways did not show up well; they blackened the globe very quickly. From many experiences I conclude that lamp filaments obtained in this manner can be advantageously used only with low potentials and low frequency currents. Some kinds of carbon withstand so well that, in order to bring them to the point of fusion, it is necessary to employ very small buttons. In this case the observation is rendered very difficult on account of the intense heat produced. Nevertheless there can be no doubt that all kinds of carbon are fused under the molecular bombardment, but the liquid state must be one of great instability. Of all the bodies tried there were two which withstood best—diamond and carborundum. These two showed up about equally, but the latter was preferable, for many reasons. As it is more than likely that this body is not yet generally known, I will venture to call your attention to it.

It has been recently produced by Mr. E. G. Acheson, of Monongahela City, Pa., U. S. A. It is intended to replace ordinary diamond powder for polishing precious stones, etc., and I have been informed that it accomplishes this object quite successfully. I do not know why the name "carborundum" has been given to it, unless there is something in the process of its manufacture which justifies this selection. Through the kindness of the inventor, I obtained a short while ago some samples which I desired to test in regard to their qualities of phosphorescence and capability of withstanding high degrees of heat.

Carborundum can be obtained in two forms—in the form of "crystals" and of powder. The former appear to the naked eye dark colored, but are very brilliant; the latter is of nearly the same color as ordinary diamond powder, but very much finer. When viewed under a microscope the samples of crystals given to me did not appear to have any definite form, but rather resembled pieces of broken up egg coal of fine quality. The majority were opaque, but there were some which were transparent and colored. The crystals are a kind of carbon containing some impurities; they are extremely hard, and withstand for a long time even an oxygen blast. When the blast is directed against them they at first form a cake of some compactness, probably in consequence of the fusion of impurities they contain. The mass withstands for a very long time the blast without further fusion; but a slow carrying off, or burning, occurs, and, finally, a small quantity of a glass-like residue is left, which, I suppose, is melted alumina. When compressed strongly they conduct very well, but not as well as ordinary carbon. The powder, which is obtained from the crystals in some way, is practically non-conducting. It affords a magnificent polishing material for stones.

The time has been too short to make a satisfactory study of the properties of this product, but enough experience has been gained in a few weeks I have experimented upon it to say that it does possess some remarkable properties in many respects. It withstands excessively high degrees of heat, it is little deteriorated by molecular bombardment, and it does not blacken the globe as ordinary carbon does. The only difficulty which I have found in its use in connection with these experiments was to find some binding material which would resist the heat and the effect of the bombardment as successfully as carborundum itself does.

I have here a number of bulbs which I have provided with buttons of carborundum. To make such a button of carborundum crystals I proceed in the following manner: I take an ordinary lamp filament and dip its point in tar, or some other thick substance or paint which may be readily carbonized. I next pass the point of the filament through the crystals, and then hold it vertically over a hot plate. The tar softens and forms a drop on the point of the filament, the crystals adhering to the surface of the drop. By regulating the distance from the plate the tar is slowly dried out and the button becomes solid. I then once more dip the button in tar and hold it again over a plate until the tar is evaporated, leaving only a hard mass which firmly binds the crystals. When a larger button is required I repeat the process several times, and I generally also cover the filament a certain distance below the button with crystals. The button being mounted in a bulb, when a good vacuum has been reached, first a weak and then a strong discharge is passed through the bulb to carbonize the tar and expel all gases, and later it is brought to a very intense incandescence.

When the powder is used I have found it best to proceed as follows: I make a thick paint of carborundum and tar, and pass a lamp filament through the paint. Taking then most of the paint off by rubbing the filament against a piece of chamois leather, I hold it over a hot plate until the tar evaporates and the coating becomes firm. I repeat this process as many times as it is necessary to obtain a certain thickness of coating. On the point of the coated filament I form a button in the same manner.

There is no doubt that such a button—properly prepared under great pressure—of carborundum, especially of powder of the best quality, will withstand the effect of the bombardment fully as well as anything we know. The difficulty is that the binding material gives way, and the carborundum is slowly thrown off after some time. As it does not seem to blacken the globe in the least, it might be found useful for coating the filaments of ordinary Incandescent lamps, and I think that it is even possible to produce thin threads or sticks of carborundum which will replace the ordinary filaments in an incandescent lamp. A carborundum coating seems to be more durable than other coatings, not only because the carborundum can withstand high degrees of heat, but also because it seems to unite with the carbon better than any other material I have tried. A coating of zirconia or any other oxide, for instance, is far more quickly destroyed. I prepared buttons of diamond dust in the same manner as of carborundum, and these came in durability nearest to those prepared of carborundum, but the binding paste gave way much more quickly in the diamond buttons: this, however, I attributed to the site and irregularity of the grains of the diamond.

It was of interest to find whether carborundum possesses the quality of phosphorescence. One is, of course, prepared to encounter two difficulties: first, as regards the rough product, the "crystals," they are good conducting, and it is a fact that conductors do not phosphoresce; second, the powder, being exceedingly fine, would not be apt to exhibit very prominently this quality, since we know that when crystals, even such as diamond or ruby, are finely powdered, they lose the property of phosphorescence to a considerable degree.

The question presents itself here, can a conductor phosphoresce? What is there in such a body as a metal, for instance, that would deprive it of the quality of phosphorescence, unless it is that property which characterizes it as a conductor? For it is a fact that most of the phosphorescent bodies lose that quality when they are sufficiently heated to become more or less conducting. Then, if a metal be in a large measure, or perhaps entirely deprived of that property, it should be capable of phosphorescence. Therefore it is quite possible that at some extremely high frequency, when behaving practically as a non-conductor, a metal of any other conductor might exhibit the quality of phosphorescence, even though it be entirely incapable of phosphorescing under the impact of a low-frequency discharge. There is, however, another possible way how a conductor might at least appear to phosphoresce.
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  #154  
Old 12-26-2008, 03:18 AM
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i just ordered some carborundum to try out.........as my carbon resistor in the gray tube....see what happens
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  #155  
Old 12-26-2008, 08:50 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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Something Been naggin at me for quite some time about the Ed Grey Patent. Now I found what the experts on this subject say isn't needed really is needed to make this system work. I think that Item 42 (Schematic) patent 4595975 is a extremely important to make this circuit work. Its supposed to be a spark gap over voltage protection device. But I know that its a switch. Here is my take on this matter. I think the tube fired.....Between the pulses that fired the motor coils. Item 42 is a switch that diverts the pulse from coils high voltage output, thru one side of the bridge rectifier to either the tube or the motor depending upon the timing position for the required pulse. The rectified, high voltage potential will pulse the coils and seek a lower voltage potential, in this case the + positive of the battery. The high voltage potential will pulse the coils and continue to the battery positive for recharging. Item 42 is a patent protection device. Most knowledgeable people in the field decided that it wouldn't work as shown, and left it out entirely, along with the connecting Load to the power source. If you drop item 42 down to the bottom right corner of the drawing you should see where it actually goes. the line drawn between the two circles should be aligned with the capacitor. The other circle should align with the load. You do not need over voltage protection to protect the high voltage source ignition coil, because its the source of the high voltage.

I attached a bridge rectifier to the high voltage output of my ignition coil and ran a wire from the + of the bridge rectifier, to the positive wire of a small 12V DC motor. I then attached the negative of the motor to the + of the battery and ...The motor started turning. It turned slowly but it will rotate. Now Someone elts try it and confirm.

Here is a drawing modified to try to show what I mean. I Think that the function of 42 was preformed in 26 (the commutator).
Attachment 1740

Besides the drawing (42 looks remarkably like a SPDT switch.

Attachment 1742
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  #156  
Old 12-26-2008, 02:20 PM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
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I can't help just yet with the little HV motor circuit. It's been raining the last few days here in Phoenix and the cats are inside. They do have a habbit of jumping on the workbench unexpectedly, so I can't make any sparks for awhile. At least it's not cold. (40 C)

I discovered a circuit around five years ago which helps to understand the patent. It makes an interesting effect, similar to the Water Sparkplug - without the light or sound. The spark just goes pht, puffs way up, and becomes completely opaque. With some of my experiments, I lost the diode. Remembering that Gray had an Overshoot protection circuit, I thought I'd check it out, to see if it would protect my diode. I was surprised to see that his circuit was pretty close to my own.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

In my circuit, the D shaped component is a defribrillator inductor. This is equivalent to a motor coil, except I can't get any magnetic repusion from it, due to the drawn out spark effect, although it does affect wood. With my three electrodes, the two gaps associated with the HV cap arc all the time, as also shown in the *975 patent. However, the third electrode is CLOSER to this constant arc, based on the distance between the two primary gaps. The patent circuit shows the third electrode spaced farther away. To add mystery to the situation, John Bedini's circuit notes show the tripple gap as I have it.

With my circuit, the third electrode arcs to the constant spark between the other two electrodes. This is how the top cap charges. When this cap reaches a certain level - or anytime I move the electrode back, then reposition it, regardless of the charge level - the 'switch' flashes over, producing my effect. And this effect I'm getting is positive, in that it produces a plasma, rather than the normal negative spark from a cap's regular discharge. (That's why the electrode has to be so close; a positive discharge is difficult to initiate.) I'm actually discharaging the positive sides of two caps - each through its own coil - into an inductive arc, although my bottom cap isn't really needed for the effect.

On the other hand, when the third electrode is more distant, as in the patent, the closer electrodes produce their arc, as shown, but there is no arc to the third electrode, and the top cap doesn't charge. But, in the event of a high level of negative charge build up (likely on the grid in the Tube) the third electrode would discharge to the others, with a negative spark. (Protecting my diode.) So, while the patent spacing appears to be correct - to an unskilled reader - from the perspective of over voltage protection from the CSET's negative static charge buildup, this buildup would not occur with the alternate arrangement.

But this still leaves the question of how the top cap gets charged, in the patent circuit. Early in the patent, it says that the motor coil produces an inductive kick as its field collapses, with this voltage being in the same direction as the original potential. So this would allow the "strong positive charge" buildup on the cap, after several pulses. Then, when it talks about the Overshoot Switch, it says the motor produces negative spikes (in that direction), and that this is what the Switch protects against, with these spikes carried to ground by transient voltage diodes 44 and 46.

To further complicate the matter, reports have it that Gray didn't actually use the top cap to recover energy, since the motor produced so much torque that he was able to recharge the batteries with an alternator. Like you, I've thought for a long time that this electrode arrangement might be the secret to how his motor worked. But, without the top cap there is no exotic effect. Still, this doesn't mean that Gray didn't use the cap. It just means that he didn't discharge it across the battery. If Bedini's notes are correct, then the actual circuit is similar to mine. If so, and if this Item 42 is the secret to the operation, then there may be something missing from the circuit. Video of the motor in operation shows the CSET powered by a fairly large transformer. This looks adequate to charge the top cap with each cycle, but not through the time constant of the motor inductor. There might need to be a way to switch the cap directly to the #42 electrodes, for charging, then back in series with the motor for discharging. And this would have to happen between each pulse of the motor. This would then produce a biphasic potential through the motor, increasing its power. So, as you say, this Item 42 would also fire between the pulses which power the motor. Of course, some of this cap's charge comes from the diode T-tap, to the grids. The cap won't *automatically* discharge through 42 without nearly a full charge, but the extra charge from the T-tap may be enough, even with the motor's time constant limiting the charging rate from the other direction. Everything would have to be precisely ballanced. And the CSET itself doesn't fire with too high a pulse rate, so there may be several cycles from the transformer per discharge.


I'm still thinking about this. Now I have one more angle to consider. I think we may be getting close. John Bedini is pretty adamant that the motor will work without the CSET, perhaps using just the Ignitron. This is what Gray used to power his mass driver coils, later in his career. You and I may be right that Item 42 holds the key. I think I'll set up an experiment pretty soon. Maybe even a small test motor. Using this extra switching sequence, I should be able to get my effect more rapidly.

I'm sure Ed Gray knew exactly what his circuit was doing. So why did he have to hire someone to write the patent? Maybe it was because he couldn't figure out how to dance around the issue of this top cap's function, and obscure the patent, thereby hiding the true configuration, and function of Item 42.
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  #157  
Old 12-26-2008, 04:27 PM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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I actually got my idea after reading this.
split the positive Text - Physics Forums Library
It seems these guys allready know how to make this circuit work without seeing the circuit. Anyway I'm Positive that this is the right track!
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  #158  
Old 12-26-2008, 07:06 PM
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Got my graphite rod today:



It is rather brittle and I don't know how hard it will be to machine, probably harder that carbon. You can draw with this stuff and it makes your hands dirty very fast.
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  #159  
Old 12-26-2008, 09:36 PM
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cool i ordered some graphite block as well....got it for $1 on ebay

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  #160  
Old 12-26-2008, 09:38 PM
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thought i would point out that the carbon resistor in bedinis notes is covered by the charge receiving grids but in the patent it isnt.....i think this may be to conceal the real purpose of it in the patent.....
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  #161  
Old 12-26-2008, 10:03 PM
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@beshires01

Can you please advise what u r using for the carbon resistor in your system
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  #162  
Old 12-26-2008, 10:25 PM
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More info on using carbon


DARK ENERGY - Tesla's Flying Machine



One guy experimenting today:
Bill Alek writes: Hello all,

I have some very encouraging information to report in regards to my spark gap experiments:
Spark Gap Experiments

Excess electrical energy has been discovered in spark gaps using Carbon/Graphite - Tungsten rods. Assuming an ideal system, a maximum COP of 171% is possible using a Wimshurst Generator as the primary high-voltage dynamo.

A Tesla-like step-down transformer T1 with a ferrite rod is used to efficiently reduce the high-voltage down to safe practical levels, which can easily be distributed and measured. As shown in Fig. 1, successive electric discharges or Electrum Validum (EVs) discharges are generated, and their associated energy is collected in a 10uf low loss capacitor during a given period of time.
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  #163  
Old 12-26-2008, 10:45 PM
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@beshires1

item 42 does seem odd.....he draws it with a circle around it....which is odd...in my book.......he draws the multivibrator and the commutator with a circle around it too....yet he quite clearly states in the patent text that it is a spark gap.....

seems odd to draw a spark gap with circles around it.....it seems to imply that all the switching devices are circled....
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  #164  
Old 12-26-2008, 10:51 PM
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@nat

I've come across that page before. Looking at his setup, I theorized he was collecting the radiant event in his inductor which sit parallel to his spark rods...
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  #165  
Old 12-26-2008, 11:21 PM
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@inquorate

thanks for the theory....but i am convinced a carbon block is the secret...to this device....tesla was experimenting with mixed electrodes too....carbon & copper.....and there is only one way to find out....

My theory is that the carbon resistor is the primary (equivalent to tesla's copper buss bar or copper strap....and the secondary is the charge receiving grids.....remember tesla's first experiments were with discharges into copper buss bars......a carbon buss bar is no different other than there is more resistance to any electrons and will force the energy to the outside of the conductor which is what we want...i have noted that in almost all the replications i have seen so far .....no one has taken this into account....it isnt a resistor as such it is the primary......Tesla advises us that stout conductors are of inappreciable in resistance to high frequency/high potential currents and this forces the radiant energy out to the outside.....this is want we want

if it was just a spark gap..then we would all be driving around in free energy cars.....

Cheers

Nat
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  #166  
Old 12-27-2008, 04:30 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat1971a View Post
@beshires1

item 42 does seem odd.....he draws it with a circle around it....which is odd...in my book.......he draws the multivibrator and the commutator with a circle around it too....yet he quite clearly states in the patent text that it is a spark gap.....

seems odd to draw a spark gap with circles around it.....it seems to imply that all the switching devices are circled....
I think his general idea implies that the high voltage potential is sitting like a common source and the spark would jump the gap in item 42, selecting either the tube or the inductive load. The timing, and the selection is made by the proper aligning contact in the commutator.
Attachment 1743
I Think the 3 groups of contacts spaced 120 degrees were used to signal the firing to the rotor-stator coils. The intermediate contacts that are spaced 40 degrees were used to signal a firing through the conversion tube.It was noted by John Wooten
Attachment 1744
that not all of the intermediate contacts were used.
Bedini states that the motor would run without the conversion tube, I tend to agree. After multiple setups, trying different combinations of things to get the inductive load to function thru the wire off the grids I met failure everytime. I now believe the conversion tubes function was as merely a battery charging device.
Ok I made a video, sorry its pretty dark but you can see the motor moving.
Ed Grey Circuit
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  #167  
Old 12-27-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
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@beshires1

item 42 does seem odd.....he draws it with a circle around it....which is odd...in my book.......he draws the multivibrator and the commutator with a circle around it too....yet he quite clearly states in the patent text that it is a spark gap.....

seems odd to draw a spark gap with circles around it.....it seems to imply that all the switching devices are circled....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beshires1 View Post
I think his general idea implies that the high voltage potential is sitting like a common source and the spark would jump the gap in item 42, selecting either the tube or the inductive load. The timing, and the selection is made by the proper aligning contact in the commutator.
I think you guys might be reading more into this than is actually there. John Bedini's 1982 eyewitness notes clearly indicate that it is a safety gap, not a switch or commutator of any sort.

It seems logical to me that you would want to have some sort of overvoltage protection in case of a runaway condition. If either the storage capacitor voltage or the grid voltage got out of control it would discharge to ground. If we are to believe Gray and Bedini, the energy coming off the CSET grids was HUGE, and it makes sense that they would want to protect the load from monstrous surges.

I don't remember seeing a photo of the safety gap, but he may have decided to enclose it for numerous good reasons, which may explain the circle around it in the patent.
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
I think you guys might be reading more into this than is actually there. John Bedini's 1982 eyewitness notes clearly indicate that it is a safety gap, not a switch or commutator of any sort.
If Bedini is so knowledgeable on how Greys circuit worked why did he not try to replicate the circuit? Fact. I have seen several experts who claimed they understand the circuit, John Bedini, Peter Lindermann, Mark Mcay, Gary Magratten, Gary Porter and the list goes on and on. Lets not forget to mention John Wooten who had two Ed Grey Motors to dissemble and study the actual commutators. Has any one of them produced any proof, by the way of a video that any thing they have said about the circuit is true and correct? Do you not think that if Bedini actually knew how to get this tremendous power he would not utilize this power somewhere?

Quote:
It seems logical to me that you would want to have some sort of over voltage protection in case of a runaway condition. If either the storage capacitor voltage or the grid voltage got out of control it would discharge to ground. If we are to believe Gray and Bedini, the energy coming off the CSET grids was HUGE, and it makes sense that they would want to protect the load from monstrous surges.
Again I don't think over voltage protection is needed in the particular area of placement of item 42 in the schematic.The Tremendous surge would allready have reached the motor and possibly the batteries. Grey also states that the Batteries have a range of 300 miles before recharge is necessary.It was also said that the conversion tube serves as a battery charger, and that the RF collected from the Grids only helps that effect.

I have not met Ed Grey, had the opportunity dismantle his original motors, Nor studied this circuit for 10 to 30 years as some have claimed. I can only speculate, test, think some more, and try something different, until I get results. Bottom line, I'm getting results that you can see. And I'm gonna show people my results. Until I, or someone , can show a tremendous Radiant event , Then I will worry about over voltage protection.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:30 PM
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Yeah I agree

Yeah i would have to agree with you. Up until this point i didnt want say anything because it could be construed as an insult. I am not saying they are liers as they could truely believe in what they say, but until i see some experimental evidence i will always treat everything with a grain of salt. Thats how science is meant to be. Its not a religion.
Me personally get the feeling of being led around in circles, probably not intentially it just feels like it. Sorry if im downer its just a feeling i have had since i started in this area which is not that long, only 5 years or so. I mean to be given all these bread crumbs and to be told its for you to work out and is a part of the journey is just a load of ****. We were are long past the point of having the time for such journeys. You have to wonder.

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Originally Posted by Beshires1 View Post
If Bedini is so knowledgeable on how Greys circuit worked why did he not try to replicate the circuit? Fact. I have seen several experts who claimed they understand the circuit, John Bedini, Peter Lindermann, Mark Mcay, Gary Magratten, Gary Porter and the list goes on and on. Lets not forget to mention John Wooten who had two Ed Grey Motors to dissemble and study the actual commutators. Has any one of them produced any proof, by the way of a video that any thing they have said about the circuit is true and correct? Do you not think that if Bedini actually knew how to get this tremendous power he would not utilize this power somewhere?



Again I don't think over voltage protection is needed in the particular area of placement of item 42 in the schematic.The Tremendous surge would allready have reached the motor and possibly the batteries. Grey also states that the Batteries have a range of 300 miles before recharge is necessary.It was also said that the conversion tube serves as a battery charger, and that the RF collected from the Grids only helps that effect.

I have not met Ed Grey, had the opportunity dismantle his original motors, Nor studied this circuit for 10 to 30 years as some have claimed. I can only speculate, test, think some more, and try something different, until I get results. Bottom line, I'm getting results that you can see. And I'm gonna show people my results. Until I, or someone , can show a tremendous Radiant event , Then I will worry about over voltage protection.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by What The Flux View Post
I think you guys might be reading more into this than is actually there. John Bedini's 1982 eyewitness notes clearly indicate that it is a safety gap, not a switch or commutator of any sort.

It seems logical to me that you would want to have some sort of overvoltage protection in case of a runaway condition. If either the storage capacitor voltage or the grid voltage got out of control it would discharge to ground. If we are to believe Gray and Bedini, the energy coming off the CSET grids was HUGE, and it makes sense that they would want to protect the load from monstrous surges.

I don't remember seeing a photo of the safety gap, but he may have decided to enclose it for numerous good reasons, which may explain the circle around it in the patent.
You know, you may be right. At this point, I'm not clinging to any specific theory. I'm just trying to analyze the patent's circuit from the perspective of what I've discovered on the side.

But Mr. Gray did have a secret, and it's been said that if he thought someone was getting close to discovering it, he would fire them. Like you, I don't know of any pictures of this particular component. Only by experimenting, and perhaps adding to what we know, will we be able to reverse engineer this technology.

There's one last thing I'd like to throw in about Item 42. With my set-up, a magnet will defeat the time constant, causing the cap to discharge with a loud bang, rather than the pht. Reports about Gray using the CSET to charge a large cap for his mass driver state that each time the CSET was fired by hand, there was a loud band. It took about 20 of these bangs to charge the large cap. My impression is that these bangs were different, and louder, than the spark in the CSET. Without ever having seen the Overshoot Switch, I have to wonder if it had a coil around it, to apply a magnetic field at the right time?

This is a puzzle we're all working on. Sharing is in the hopes that someone will correlate something differently, perhaps adding a clue.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:16 PM
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@ nat

Ok, having heard that description I'm inclined to agree with you. You posted a link on imhotep thread;

DARK ENERGY - Tesla's Flying Machine

Halfway down it says tesla expected to find unexpected voltages in crystalline lattices.

diamond is carbon. So is graphite. And lightning rods are graphite. Think maybe I'll keep an eye out for a graphite fishing rod. Had one as a kid and I was told not to use it in a thunderstorm...
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:19 PM
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Oops

Actually @ nat posted it here on this thread
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:36 PM
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Even more info on carbon being a negative resistor

In a July 9, 1998 keynote address at the Fifth International Conference on Composites Engineering in Las Vegas, Dr. Deborah D. L. Chung, professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at University at Buffalo (UB), reported that she had observed apparent negative resistance in interfaces between layers of carbon fibers in a composite material. Professor Chung holds the Niagara Mohawk Chair in Materials Research at UB and is internationally recognized for her work in smart materials and carbon composites. The negative resistance was observed in a direction perpendicular to the fiber layers.


The Tom Bearden Website
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:52 PM
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So if i understand correctly gray was pulsing 1200-1400v (apparently this is the range that cold electricity operates in according to gray) pulses into a carbon resistor (which is a negative resistor)...to generate a radiant event..cold electricity
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:08 AM
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resistor

There is no doubt that the resistor will dissipate some of the positive potential from the HV side. At that point of resistance as the positive potential dissipates outwards, negative energy diverges inwards at the same point of resistance. This happens with any resistor. Also, relative to the HV side, the carbon resistor attached to a switch on the backside of the diode to connect it to the circuit is switching on the negative.

Read Free Energy Generation by Bearden/Bedini to understand the E-AMP "phenomena", which is probably exactly in effect here.

Chung said her "negative resistor" effect with her carbon fibers were PSEUDO negative resistors - it is all in that video in Bearden's series.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrotek View Post
There's one last thing I'd like to throw in about Item 24. With my set-up, a magnet will defeat the time constant, causing the cap to discharge with a loud bang, rather than the pht. Reports about Gray using the CSET to charge a large cap for his mass driver state that each time the CSET was fired by hand, there was a loud band. It took about 20 of these bangs to charge the large cap. My impression is that these bangs were different, and louder, than the spark in the CSET. Without ever having seen the Overshoot Switch, I have to wonder if it had a coil around it, to apply a magnetic field at the right time?
That sounds about right. As I mentioned a few days ago, by putting a choke on the LV side of my spark gap, I got the plasma spark to just make a pfft. But when I add magnetic field across the same spark gap, I'm back to a loud snap, on the order of where I was without the choke coil. It's definitely quenching the spark.

I realize that's not much data to add to the fire, but I'm close to finished building my copper grids, so we will see what kind of effect that (magnetic field) has on energy picked up by the grids. At this point, the amount of questions I have snowball.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:34 AM
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If Bedini is so knowledgeable on how Greys circuit worked why did he not try to replicate the circuit? Fact. I have seen several experts who claimed they understand the circuit, John Bedini, Peter Lindermann, Mark Mcay, Gary Magratten, Gary Porter and the list goes on and on. Lets not forget to mention John Wooten who had two Ed Grey Motors to dissemble and study the actual commutators. Has any one of them produced any proof, by the way of a video that any thing they have said about the circuit is true and correct? Do you not think that if Bedini actually knew how to get this tremendous power he would not utilize this power somewhere?
Well you may have a valid point. But it's very discomforting to think that the guy I've been studying has been misleading us. On the other hand, I don't want to assume that they haven't duplicated the effect just because they haven't published it. It's a complex environment here. I can think of many reasons he would stay quiet.

Granted, this is only opinion, but it doesn't make sense to me that Bedini would fudge the notes after having the privilege of being granted a thorough first-hand look at it's construction. If so, well shame on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmonarch View Post
Me personally get the feeling of being led around in circles, probably not intentially it just feels like it. Sorry if im downer its just a feeling i have had since i started in this area which is not that long, only 5 years or so. I mean to be given all these bread crumbs and to be told its for you to work out and is a part of the journey is just a load of ****. We were are long past the point of having the time for such journeys. You have to wonder.
I agree with you here. That one email of John's really doesn't sit well with me. It sounds like he was really pissed off that day. And he's taking it all out on us. "What does this say to everybody?", "..because you're looking for them you won't find them!", "We are all blind", etc.
OK, I may be blind but I'm not a total moron either. Throw me a bone here!
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:58 AM
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Ok Reading the old patent again, It do state that the high Voltage will become "electrostatically connected to the grids" upon proper alignment of the commutator" to fire a high voltage potential into the load. I was directed to believe that ya didn't want the high voltage to jump to the grids. It also states that the low voltage to the low voltage anode will be disconnected by the commutator at the time of the firing thru the Grid to the load.(And I've been trying to produce a electrical event to do this) Now I had something elts to try, I attached one lead of my Small DC test motor to the Positive Post of the Battery and the other motor lead to the Grid. Fired up my test setup and the high voltage jumped to grid but the motor wouldn't wiggle. I turned the rig off adjusted my high voltage electrode closer to the grid and, nothing. I repeated this procedure several times moving the electrode closer and closer to the grid. At about 3/32" I got a little movement in the test motor. Touch the electrode to the grid, and the motor started turning.
Now I'm not a rocket scientist, I am a welder by trade. If You pump a high frequency dc arc inside the conversion tube, and it arcs over to the copper grid using the amperage that Grey says, (over 100 amps) and a rectified 300 VDC, you will have if you use argon inside the tube, you got yourself a TIG welder, capable of easily melting the copper grids. Using plain air the arc will be more dramatic. A Capacitor discharge thru the tube might be capable of of jumping to the Grids to deliver a high voltage pulse to the motor coils, without damaging the grid, But I'm not setup to test this. I can assure you, you wont here a soft Pffft when the capacitor discharges.

I'm having fun now, I added another reed switch to my motor powered voltage chopper, vibrator what ever you want to call it. (small 12 V motor with a disk and one magnet attached rotating past a reed switch that turns the power on and off to my ignition coils.) The High voltage pulses from my ignition coils are coming faster, enough to spin the test motor a little better.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:36 PM
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Hi again, I believe if ANYONE(including the famous people mentioned above) had understood the physics behind the magnetoelectric current we would not have all this trouble. And the few giants alive like Dollard and Meyer are under big pressure I believe.

Read Meyl, Dollard and www16pi2.com - rather sooner than later we will get it. If some people in here spent 10 years looking, maybe they need to rethink what this wave really is(and if big brother dominated these forums completely at that time), how it behaves and what it wants. Look at lightning, trees(including the root system!), your nervous system, earth magnetic field, white dwarfs etc, etc. Nodes, antinodes, Felix Ehrenhaft, Henry Transtrom, the Patterson cell, the Meyer WFC, TMT etc, study, study. Anyone who gets into this field should know they are unlikely to be the man who opens the door to the temple. BUT they might be very helpful in attracting the right individuals to do this.

I believe we were having real progress in this thread very recently, including Aaron and Beshires efforts. The answer lies in radiant matter and discussing its properties. A blind man will have trouble building the correct Gray tube. An enlightened man will finish it off quickly. Gray said he understood lightning well, let´s listen to him. The dipole fields(dielectric and magnetic) and geometry of the aether(spherical) in combination with the right materials(dielectric and conductive layers) give us the answer I believe.

But maybe I am totally wrong.
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:53 PM
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I don't want to be abrasive or confrontational, BUT.... sounds like a whole bunch of WHOODOO magic to me.

I don't undertand the need to make it more complicated than it is.

If High voltage arcs across the point to a low voltage source, and is dragging NON Divergent energy parralell along with it.
Then the electron flow make a 90deg turn because of the collision between the high and low voltage. That should allow the NON divergent energy flow to collect on the electron flow.
HENCE, giving you extra power. And / Or alternative types of energy.

I am in the proccess of building it, but I am convinced its that SIMPLE.
Its a means of collecting and compressing the Non Divergent energy flow.

Matt
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