I've been running into small problems that as I try to remedy one another arises. But, I will prevail! I made a spinning contact, so I could introduce the ground into the tube only when the rotors magnets are in the proper alignment over the stator coils. This would have been good had I not used a CD disk to attach the spinning contact's spinning bar to. The foil on the CD disk draws the spark whenever, But the high voltage spark is blasting the foil clean and pretty off the disk. Hopefully it will eventually clean all away then spark only to the copper bar thats glued to the disk. I also removed the steel shaft and replaced it with a wooden oak spindle. Anyway I'm still working with this project and haven't given up yet.

YouTube - Gray Motor Test 2

I have been working on timing the capacitor discharge with the rotor position. I now understand why Gray showed the triode symbol positioned as he did in his patent. First off, WE ALL have been using a diode in the place of the triode. Which for all practical purposes allowed the tube to discharge, but only when the break down voltage of the gap was obtained. The discharge was spontaneous, occurring whenever the breakdown voltage of the gap was reached. This was fine to demo the tube working but the timing of the discharge cannot be controlled with a diode. Thats why even in Aaron's vids the motor runs very roughly. Now, the discharge is controlled by the introduction of the ground into the circuit (tube). this is why Gray used a Triode, So that there was no ground inside the tube until the rotor was in proper alignment, then a small pulse of current triggered the triode to Open or conduct. The Triode then opens to allow a negative or positive 12V to be introduced into the tube, the capacitor discharges, and repels the rotor from the stator. Grey was introducing the low voltage potential into the tube with the Triode when he wanted the tube to fire.

Hey Ghst!
Great to see you're still working on this. If indeed those replicating grays technology need triodes but find that they're too expensive try this video: A home-made triode | Ham Radio Blog

-Raui

Ghst, glad you're still at it with this project.

When I want the tube to fire, it it is really whenever I choose it to fire.

The 12v is available at the tube by any number of ways to connect the circuit behind a diode. That can be a mechanical switch, and if connected, will allow the tube to fire exactly when we want it to fire. There are multiple ways to make it does this and mechanical contact is just one way.

Whenever my motor ran rough, it is because of non-reliable point material coupled with not being able to keep the caps charged up at the speeds I need.

In Gray's early demonstrations of the coil repulsion demos, there are no triodes in that entire circuit that I know of.

I haven't done the experiments with the triode because they are too costly to blow up over and over in experiments, which Magratten and others have done. So, perhaps there is some advantage to them but conceptually, I don't see how.

With the energy gains with the "principle", I wonder if anyone has found that by adding the joules in all caps and launching a known weight, the weight is thrown higher than it is "supposed" to go.

I'm not positive but I think that all the equipment he used to make those triodes would cost me quite a bit more then just buying the triodes.

Very nice workmanship though.

Thanks for the video.

It was on the off chance someone had all the tools required xD

-Raui

Aaron, Gray didn't need a triode in the coil popping demo There was no need to use one when he discharged the caps manually. But I do agree that there are other ways now available to time the discharge other than the triode. It can be done with magnetic switching and a relay, a lobed cam and roller lever switches. and a number other ways. Each would have to be carefully thought out as the high voltage travels strange paths, usually causing destruction. In my test 3 video I have the discharges and timing right but the discharge is not inside the tube. Its at the spinning contact that introduces the ground to the grid wire. Again this test is running only off the small 12V battery, The automotive breaker points are on the other end of the motor shaft. YouTube - Ed Gray Motor Test3

Brilliant! I've re-read patent again. Gray writes exactly about timing by triode dispite of presence of mechanical switch.

IMO capacitor must have charge after spark to create electromotive force to push grid charge through a load. While spark is fired the load is shunted by it. But after breaking the spark electric field goes througt the load and pushes charge from grid into load. If capacitor fully discharged we do not have strong electric field in the path of load and therefore have weak torgue.

In addition we have to charge capacitor again by powerful HV source. Forget OU, baby

For switching I thought about oil-filled magnet-aided mechanical switch.

Another way is to make third insulated anode with its own HV source. So after discharge of primary capacitor we still have an electric field througt the load.
But I suggest it can be ineffective because of volume negative charge around this anode after some time. Gray wrote in another patent something about ventilation and appropriate pressure.

I think I can make a high voltage relay from a SPST (normally open ) automotive relay. I have already tested that the relay will work immersed in mineral oil. By immersed in mineral oil I mean that I removed the plastic cover from the relay, and immersed only the relay's coil solenoid and contacts. I did not immerse the connection base in the mineral oil. But I haven't tested to see if the HV will seek ground thru the relay coil's power connections(85, 86), that is will the HV pass thru the contact and travel through the relay's coil to ground as it does using a standard "dry" auto accessory relay. This needs further exploration.

can any one tell me how can i find the torque of the ev motor

please help me

thank you

@ghst

Well done!! Love the videos and the great work you are doing

just wondering what your amp draw is?

And if your motor has enough torque to run an alternator?

Cheers

Nat

Im not so sure the tube was ever ment to work by itself, without the motor. For months I have been going over and over everything that's been posted and tried.

Here's one conclusion Ive came to. I think Aaron's circuit theory is correct, however I think Gray was doing something different obviously, or else someone would have duplicated this by now. So, the common sense thing to do is look at what no one has tried yet.

If you study how the motor was built, you'll see that it used ALOT of insulating material for most of the internal workings. He mentions "pressurized air" also being applied inside the motor. Also, he mentions super tight clearances between the rotor and stators. Let's theorize that the insulating material was teflon. If you look at a dielectric table, this material exhibits a negative charge. Air exhibits a positive charge. Now with the internals spinning with extremely tight spacing, does this not sound like a static machine?? This would allow energy to be introduced from a source other than the power supply.

I think Gray's supply did indeed supply a high voltage, but where everyone including me has been using the same supply to supply the lower positive voltage and higher positive voltage, I think the highest voltage in Gray's unit was supplied by the HV static generated by the motor internals. Since the arc occured between the rotor and the stator, I think some of the gain came from shorting out the static field (electron avalanche) and this is how the Floating Flux Field picked up induced voltages as well because with the continual building of static and then shorting it out would cause a pulsed HV static field that could now be picked up and used in a coil.

It was even said that Gray's motor wouldnt work without the air passing through the motor. This smells like static to me! I know they said that it was to keep the motor from freezing up, but the static application makes more sense.

Very interesting Martin! It could be an amendment to the power supply.

It's the only thing that makes sense with flowing air across it. Why else would Gray go to the expense and trouble of all of that specialized insulation. Id say it's either teflon or delrin, and either one is very expensive. Evidently witnesses that seen the original motor run said there was ALOT of static electricity around the room with the motor in it.

Id say Cole found a way to combine static using dielectrics and I think that the motor is one way. I think Cole's black box power supply uses this same method. Now, whether there's a smaller motor in the box or maybe there's some specialized transformer utilizing these dielectric materials is anyone's guess. I know that Tesla built a transformer just out of dielectric materials!

Floating Flux Field looks like magnetic flux mentioned by Don Smith. An effect of disruptive discharge of capacitor into coil. I'd like to state once more - Gray tube was kind of Tesla coil. Compare them and add what is missing from Gray patent. Copper grids were probably in fact a spirally wound strange secondary. There is not much turns in secondary (in fact 2-3) but as Gray started process with large power of HV capacitor he didn't needed a lot of it.
Missing is at least one turn of primary,resistance after primary seems to enlarge effect. The circuit during disruptive discharge must be disconnected from power source (open path) - that's why so strange device name...

IMHO that link contains good information about produced field : Complete information on working SM style device.

Since we are proposing alternate theories i thought i would throw mine in the mix.

I am of the opinion that the charge receiving grids are negatively precharged and insulated (capacitor plate) as per the missing information i found in Tesla's radiant energy patent. To understand this further you will need to watch my video.

YouTube - Update 30 - Found missing info from Tesla Radiant Energy Patent

My lastest crack at the gray circuit using a bedini/imhotep hybrid circuit . Just need to get the motor side of it working now. I think.........

YouTube - Update 31 - Edwin Gray replication ??

Reading the info on this link reinforces the possibility that Gray's description of the FFF as being a "delay line" may actually be accurate. If the FFF was only hooked up in series with the outer set of coils, then it could be used as described in the above site, based on the assumption that spherics is correct in his post. However, there is a reason why Cole had the FFF wrapped around the motor.

Id be interested to see what a seperate high voltage static source introduced around the circuit would have. Nat1791a, I think your post appies here. Id LOVE to read the JJ Thomson PDF you mention, but Ive been off work for quite a while now and my wife would freak if I spent any extra $$. That's why my experiments have came to a halt temporarily

@all

Here's some further information on how I see the gray tube functioning based on the new information i found on Tesla's radiant energy patent.
The question is now does a diode function the same way as the vacuum tube does in producing a radiant matter stream that travells in straight lines. You dont want to be using a magnet near the radiant matter stream as it will deflect it.

if we assume that the diode does function the same way then the only thing missing in the replications is the negatively charged insulated grids.

this implies that the diode would have to have line of sight with the negative insulated plate / grids

@martin,

sent u a PM

Hi folks, for what its worth, my father just yesterday may have experienced a little taste of what Tesla studied which is that super charging effect when first connecting a power source to a circuit. He connected a new 12v starter battery in his car, albeit accidentally connected the polarity backwards which should not have made a difference to the fuse as far as I know, anyway he blew a 20 amp fuse just by briefly touching the battery terminals and the loads that the circuit operated were not on. Now if there is a diode somewhere before the loads that created a short through the fuse, well that would explain it, but if not just thought i would share it.

My old man related two stories to me.

One was where he came across an old guy that got a real old oily car to run (black smoke) by cutting the spark plug leads, and looping the new ends thru the holes in buttons, so it sparked over before the spark plugs. This evidently made the spark plugs burn longer or hotter or more voltage to overcome the oil in the cylinders.

Two is where he was reaching for an insulated power line (to a shed) at the exact moment that line was struck by lightning. Luckily, he did not have his hand on the line; his hand was around the wire but not touching it... He remembered seeing the space between his hand and the power line glowing with white light when the concussion wave from the blast threw him backwards.

Just thought I'd share

Hi Inquorate, thanks for sharing. That second story sure sounds like the super charge effect, yup. And the first probably as well. So in my fathers case it seems he had the positive of the battery at ground which may be the cause of the effect or something more conventional, anyone have any ideas, not to detract from the thread, but it is related for sure since Edwin Gray was using the super charge effect.
peace love light
Tyson

Oh one more thing, he said there was a loud snapping sound like how a higher voltage cap discharging sounds. From a 12volt battery, this does not sound normal, and I just noticed on another thread about teslas ground plate being charged positively, interesting I think.

Edwin Gray test with negative plate for grids no insulation

YouTube - Update 32- Edwin Gray replication using negatively charge plate for grids

Inquorate,

There are some pre spark plug things that go in series with the plug wire that are simply a spark gap and serve this purpose. I don't know what they're called but I have seen them online. I think someone may have showed this in the Water Sparkplug thread and they do give benefit. They are in a glass type of container with an adjustable gap.

Ok, if Im understanding these papers, one should be able to build this box I uploaded. Im thinking that if you run air currents through hole A, static should build up on delrin block E. Now, apply a HV static charge to electrode D and it should cause the static build up to discharge a current between electrodes B and C (C is ground). The only difference in this and the papers is this uses positive air flow to build static on the dielectric block.

Im thinking that if the rays emitted by electrode D causes a current to flow in electrode B, then the accumulated static charge on the dielectric block would add to this. According to JJ Thomson, the radiant rays cause dielectrics to conduct. So, one would have to turn off the HV on D to allow static to build on the dielectric and have the load disconnected from B. Then the load would have to be reconnected when the HV is applied on D for current to flow through the load.

Edit: Actually, if the radiant rays cause dielectrics to flow current, assuming the dielectric block E has an opposite charge of the air dielectric, applying a HV to D may cause a constant current to flow as long as air is moving across the block E. Also, the diagram isnt drawn like this, but electrode B possibly should be totally enclosed by dielectric block E.

Attached Images

Static Transfer.jpg (28.7 KB, 17 views)

What if the 'negatively charged plate' is just the battery terminal?

Then 99% of the energy would be going back to the battery right?