Magdude has the effect and Magdude confirmed that the effect I showed is the same effect he figured out. So, Mlurye and Ghst may be the only other ones that have ever shown it. 4 people and I may be missing someone.

I'm surprised that there aren't more attempts because it is the only thing that has showed promise as being able to power a coil and it is powering a coil in an unconventional way.

Anyone that questions if it is just a simple cap discharge hasn't done the experiments and should just do them to find out. I have done countless tests with just this concept of comparing it to a typical cap discharge and there are huge differences.

A regular cap (charged to same amount) and dumped into identical coil charges MUCH MUCH SLOWER and the magnetic field appears to be spread over more area around the coil. Maybe because it is slow enough to feel it.

The "effect" charges the coil exponentionally faster and the magnetic field is so sharp and abrupt that is appears to only have a useful punch over the area of the core - so therefore, opposing coils which are intended to be repelled or attracted should have really good size cores in my opinion and if using magnets for attraction or repulsion should have magnets the same size as the shape of the core. It is compressing all that magnetic strength into one small blip of time and the benefits of time compression (impulse energy) is obvious - the power density goes through the roof.

The difference is night and day and there is no question about it - it is anything but but a simple capacitor discharging into a coil.

Is this "effect" exactly what Gray had? Nobody can prove this yet. However, to date, it is the only unconventional coil charging method that matches all the apparent criteria that Gray used.

I'm not sure if anyone realizes it, yes Electrotek mentioned it once about changing the impedance in the coil, but when you take a cap and discharge it into an inductor in a few microseconds when it is should take a few hundred microseconds for the cap to discharge.... the resistance of the coil disappeared and the cap is discharging into a negative resistance zone that allows the capacitor to discharge without causing hot electron current from flowing in the opposite direction to give a magnetic field...it is a cold magnetic current that charges the coil with all benefits of amperage without the amps.

Marcoz, scroll back up this page (page 46) to the photo Electrotek posted of Grays cart. look at the CSET pictured. I think thats a side electrode, but I may be mistaken. The thing about Gray's CSET is that None of the CSETs look like his patent drawing. Or each other for that matter. I know of at least three different CSETs that Gray is pictured with. I think that Spokane1 had it right about the CSET being a work in progress, and was still being developed?

Ghst: I agree that it looks like the picture shows a side electrode. Also, I've been thinking about what Aaron said about a one inch central electrode. In this picture it does look like the inner most grid extends through all three CSET's, or this may be an electrode.

Thats what I'm getting at Tek, Gray has used many different configurations or variations of the CSET, So if he was still working on perfecting it then anything we build that will produce sought after effects can't be wrong can it? Hell I'd blast my big Cap through 3 tin cans if it gives me the effects I'm looking for!

Sorry I gotta go for now one heck of a thunderstorm screwing with my connection!

Hi Aaron,
just to be sure I'm following you, what you're describing here is the configuration with the Gray tube in series with the capacitor & coil, right? That's what allows much quicker charging of the coil, right ?

Thanks for clarifying.

Ghst's very distinct green signature.

Hi Altair,

It is the configuration that you have multiple positive voltages moving into each other and giving them alternate pathways to ground.

With a coil in series with this, the coil receives an abrupt capacitive discharge and the capacitive discharges is not slowed down by any impedance in the coil because it sees no impedance from what I can observe.

There is a current that charges the coil and lets it have a magnetic field but it is not normal current. The ohmic resistance of the windings is gone and the impedance caused by applying power to the coil is gone. Therefore, the cap discharge of it's voltage potential is already through faster than light speed and the current the that moves in opposite direction meets no resistance.

If it did, the cap would discharge very slow as it should because of these resistances and impedances but it discharges virtually instantaneously because the coil is a negative resistor in this situation because of the strong negative potential left in the wake of the originating HV potential that was turned away.

When one positive voltage is moving into another positive voltage and then it is abruptly turned away to ground, it leaves a very strong negative pressure, which pulls away the ambient aether from around coil windings.

Therefore, the cap potential is sucked out very fast and as the "ambient" aether around the coil is not there, the potential from the capacitor is not going to meet any resistance and is not limited to light speed. It is accelerated faster because it is being sucked into a very strong negative difference.

The cap discharge is unable to experience any inertia to slow it down because any positive "Heaviside flow" over the coil isn't there to have it's positive potential push against the positive potential leaving the cap, which normally would limit the flow to about light speed, while the current moves at a few inches per hour.

In this case, the "current" appears to be traveling at a negative resistance and is cold and very fast. Is it electron current just moving without resistance? If anything, this is yet another example leading to the disintegration of the whole electron model to begin with in my opinion.

This "effect" violates Ohm's Law, Lenz's Law and Faraday's Law of Induction as well as the conservation of energy and thermodynamics. This effect shows the inverse of all these "laws".

You are right aron but it is properly called negative inductance. And that should apply to all your lcr circuit ie negative resistance and negative capacitance.It does not matter what you think you still have an lcr circuit and no matter what, you have to match it. When you do it will make the bang bigger. Then you will know what effect Gray was doing.
Oh and the only one being childish in here is GHST. Please if you can't be a real experimenter and listen to others why even be here?
No matter what you think you have a frequency no matter if it is pulsed or not. Thats is what pulsing is for. It is all about frequency. You pulse so many times in a second and that is frequency. If you would have a scope on that cap you would have noticed that the pulses look steped forward and back a little. it is why you are able to charge it up like you do. weather it is one way pulsing or not there is a drop after the pulse.
Anyways I'm not the one who started all the crap in the first place. I just tried to inform Ghst and others that they should be looking at the resonance of those pulse trains they are running. Also most of what is told in that pdf is backed up with replications and if not it references the original theories. Put me on the ignore I don't care, what I am saying is the truth and obviosly with your lack of education on the matter I wouldn't blame you for not understanding or even accepting real science. Half of what is in the pdf is actually based on actual current scientific ideology.
And to boot I am not working for anyone. That is the usual banter from you guys who think something magical is going on and when someone points out that it isn't you go and say I'm working for the man. Please Grow up...
Oh and Aron you can't violate laws if you are not using what the laws are based on. Can you? You guys are mixing real electricty and Radiant Energy terms. Thats like comparing apples to watermelons. We don't even know the laws for Radiant energy by the way. Except that it operates in a contradictory fashion and not always in the same way.

Yes, the laws can be violated because they are claimed to be laws instead of conditional parameters that apply only to closed loop conventional circuits.

If the establishment wants to clarify and call it "Ohm's Law in Closed Loop conventional circuits", then that would not be violated by this technology.

A law implies an across-the-board law that applies to everything. Therefore, this stuff absolutely violates that. Until the names of the laws are changed and include a description and/or disclaimer that indicates they only apply to closed loop conventional circuits, those laws will remain to be broken and will remain one big bogus farce.

Differences in opinion here are welcome as long as they're respectful and Ghst is at least sharing the work that he is doing.

The first thing I want to clarify is that radiant energy is not electricity the laws that apply to electricity does not apply to RE. You know this! If they don't apply then how can you break them? Weather or not the Man says so or not the laws are for conventional electricity. That being said you can not break what doesn't apply. Thats like saying objects should act like they do in air as in space from the point of view of when we hadn't been in space yet. We all know that now to be not true but at that time we didn't.
Now my only real concern was that you seem to be encouraging GHST to go down a road that obviously he isn't prepaired to go down. He experiments are thrown together on the carpet in the basement from what I can tell and to tell you the truth he seems to be very young in thinking that nothing could happen to him. He has no way to check to see if things are getting dangerous and that concerns me. As an experimentor I know doing it proper and with proper safety proceddures is the uttmost concern an experimentor should have. He doesn't seem to have those concerns. I know you should be concerned with encouraging unsafe practices on this forum right?
Why exactly do you think Tesla was looking into this efect? Two reasons Hertz and linemen getting killed from a unipulse RE event. RE doesn't act like normal electricity it is not containable. Metal doesn't shield it and it is most dangerous at lower frequencies like a single pulse. not to mention that at 1-500 pulses it does strange things. His chopper is pulsing at what frequency? The cap filled with "RE" does what..... A Unipulse... Thats dangerous and you are goading him to do more. We know very little about what RE does but the one source I would trust the most would be Tesla. I am not sure if he had records but I do remember reading about his experiments with finding out what was killing the linemen. I am sure that anything potentially that dangerous that you would not be sitting here cheering him on. I would think that would make you kinda liable. I would think as the moderator you have a lot to do with the running of the forums and should not be encouraging others to do non safe experiments. Especially with the videos being on youtube as proof. I know you didn't make him do the experiment but it does seem like he is doing it to impress you or others in an unsafe manner.
Far be it for me to tell you how to run your forum but I would think as a moderator you would not encourage such an action. Lets say something does happen? Does his family sue you because you encouraged it?
Maybe it is not my place to say anything but your liability should be telling you otherwise.
As for the other stuff like disagreeing thats ok I know not everyone agrees with what the other says. Thats the human way right? I tried to offer advice and got snapped at and told I was acting childish. Everything I said had merrit and he should do it the right way not reckless because it definetly looks to be reckless.
summing it up I would give two pieces of advice. Safety first and as an experimentor I would think teaching other the right way would be high on the list. I know this will probasbly get me booted from the forum but I felt the need to say this. As one human to the next I don't like to see others get hurt because they didn't practice good safety rules when running experiments.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions and everyone should use common sense when dealing with any of this stuff. If someone isn't qualified to do the experiments, they should not do them.

I am not "goading" anybody on and am simply posting what I think. I have the privilege to do this like every other member.

If you think you want to do anyone a favor by expounding on the wisdom of your safety mastery, why don't you start a thread called: Experimenter's Safety Advice?

Your contribution would then be realized in a most constructive manner that would probably be appreciated by a lot of Energetic Forum members.

Hi folks, very nicely said Aaron. You are very good at seeing things clearly, I am surprised at the weak attempts to subvert the thread.
peace love light

Exactly,
And anyone that takes a good look at the image i posted yesterday will see that this is no regular cap/coil discharge.

Marcoz.

Hi Lamar
There seems to be a misunderstanding.
The AC picture shows why AC does not work, it conducts the energy through the tube's capacity to the Conversion Grids.

I posted this picture because there was somebody saying the Gray tubes worked on a resonant principle and so ive made it to show why oscillations cannot work.

The DC picture shows what happens when fed DC and i share your oppinion as to this being the correct setup.

I have also studied the most part of Eric Dollard's work and also replicated some of his work, i have also studied the work of many, many others.

Marcoz.

Hi all,

I see a lot of discussion going on here about how the Gray tube works, and there are a few different theories. Since these discussions are shattered all over the thread, it is very hard to keep track of what is going on.

Therefore, I think we need to think of maintaining a wiki page to bring structure into the discussion and think of how we can work more systematically.

What theories do we have?
What experiments could we do to verify or debunk a certain theory?
What experiments have been done?
What were the results?
What can we learn from the results so far?

If we agree that a wiki page is a good idea, where do we host it?
Peswiki??


Furthermore, I'd like to stress that there ain't no such thing as a bad experiment or a bad theory. While I have certain theories that do not necessarily match the theories of others, none of the work people are doing here is useless or "the wrong way", and there is no way to say which theory is the right or wrong, unless we systematically try work out some experiments that bring our knowledge and understanding a step further and document our results in a structured way. Every experiment and idea adds something to our knowledge and understanding and the more we are able to build on previous results and experiments, the further we can all see.

Sounds similar to writing a book

My understanding comes from experimentation.
When i post a circuit, you can try it, and it will do what i claim, given you used the correct component values etc.
This has got nothing to do with theory, but all with replicatable results.

Marcoz.

Thanks Aaron for that in-depth explanation in your post 1388. That was much more than I expected and I hope it will also benefit others who just arrive into this thread. This post is a keeper.
I have checked the thread previously a few times in the past 3 months but, as a result, didn't get the feel as to where the experiments were going. Now with that all nicely summed-up in a single place, I can now get up to speed on the whole process.

I also totally agree with LAMARE about the wiki page idea.
As a relatively newcomer to this forum, I can tell you that I spent countless evenings and weekends reading long threads end to end that finally dead-ended for one reason or another. Having a summary available for the important technologies will allow a much quicker integration for newcomers, and serve as an historical brief about the evolution of the ideas and experiments contributed to that particular subject. Of course, the forum can be consulted for all the specific details. The wiki should also include an up-to-date schematic.

Now, if you would be so kind as to do another clarification; when you write "multiple positive voltages moving into each other" and "When one positive voltage is moving into another positive voltage " are you refering to the construction of the tube itself that allows the incoming high voltage to "spread" to a larger area (the electrode) before being transfered to the other electrode, effectively dividing the HV into many paths, or is it some other thing that I missed?
In fact, it's just the expression "multiple positive voltages" that confuses me, I guess.

Regards,

Guy

FYI Aron: FastMHz.com - We Play With Electricity » 24,000j Capacitor Discharge System (Upd Sept 14, 08)

Is this what you guys are talking about? Because it has been done or is being done with regular electricity the right way with proper respect for what he is playing with.
There is no majic force and yes it can be done with out RE. There is the proof and also this came about from a railgun setup. His experiment is a
little larger cap wise but it shows you Can do what you are talking about with good old electricity and actually it uses the same 3 probe arc points.
Also at some point the pulse that gets emited could end up being like a good old emp bomb. I doubt being so close to that would be a good idea at all. Seeing that your body has voltage and current running thru it already. Much like a zap from a medical defibulator but on a much higher scale.

I saw your schematic Marcoz. It shows the essence of the basic principle in my opinion. The older Gray patent is easier to trace than his newer ones and shows the principle and uses a gap instead of a diode - just remembering off the top of my head.

This effect can be hand as a single shot event and doesn't need "oscillations".

However, what hasn't been shown is the effect at higher speeds, which may manifest something else such as coil cooling, etc... and there may be certain frequencies that the overall system will be more efficient at - and I would bet $ that of course each system would have it's own optimum frequency. It is only speculation what all happens at higher frequency until we show something and Magdude hasn't posted anything else as far as all the other details people want to know about his system.

This whole concept could be operated at high frequency in resonance, where the whole system is synchronized, which is my goal for certain applications. This would be like the Meyer VIC method that I experimented with - like a "DC Resonance" or whatever you want to call it. A unidirectional resonance.

Hi Guy,

You're welcome and of course that is just my take on things.

The HV from the front side cap jumps into the LV rod with the battery 12v+ sitting there. That is a positive jumping into a positive. Then the diode slams shut, turns this HV away and it has nowhere to go except for the grid which is its only other path to ground - the 2nd or alternative higher resistance path. As it does this, it creates an extremely strong negative pressure behind, which causes a super fast "cold current" punch of current moving into the LV source. Then that moves into another positive from the cap sitting behind the coil, which of course is again connected to the common ground.

Basically, it is getting one positive to move into another positive. Normally, most people think you have to have a negative for the positive to move to but that isn't true. It is only about potential differences.

10v can move into 9v if they share a common ground because you have a difference of 1v that the 10v can move to...not a steep gradient at 1v difference but point is, get a postive to move into another positive, which is connected by a common ground.

Ghst's schematic is almost deceptive but if you trace everything, you'll see they do indeed share a common ground between the ignition coil and the hv capacitor. It is easier to see the common ground on the popular stock Gray schematic and even easier on the older Gray schematic in the patent.

I don't know if I made it more confusing here or not. lol

Would have to see the exact schematic to see what he is doing. I see the picture of three points but that doesn't really tell me anything.

From his description it is a replacement for the scr's he was using to trigger the cap dump. He describes it pretty well. There are other links to his experiments on that site just goto the projects tab on top and walla 3-5 projects based on it.

Thanks Aaron, once again you made it perfectly clear.
Originally, I thought you were talking about 2 (or more) HIGH voltages being connected together, but now I see you were refering to the +12V and HV.
I understand perfectly the effect of joining different voltages together, having a formation in electronics.
Now I just have to work out my own theory as to how this thing is supposed to work

Regards

Marcoz, I found this that I posted a while back here and on Peswiki.
The top diagram is like yours in concept and because of the gap, a diode isn't needed. Anyway, I'm in agreement with the basic concept you show.

This is at: Directory:EV Gray - PESWiki

Hallo
Can I have some question about power source of HV ?
I am using MOT so on secondary winding I have about 2200VAC it is rectified 3100VDC. I am using voltage multiplier so I get about 6200VDC.
In my country we have ignition coils that can produce up to 30kV. If I want to charge 4000VDC capacitor I cannt go over this voltage level 4000VDC. If I want to use this ignition coil with 30kV I need to have protection spark gap which guarantee only 4kV level not more.
Or there is another kind of ignition coils which can produce max voltage below 4000V Ghst ?
Thank for anyhow advice
Antena

My diodes finally arrived Thursday and I spent Friday assembling it all and doing my first tests (plus a few last night when it was dark.) If you recall, my plan was to use a Van de Graaff machine as the power supply to test if the effect could be gotten with the same high voltage but low current. i.e. Hoping for some quantum vacuum energy tapping in the tube. I uploaded a video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWIbbFJzW3k
I also started a webpage about it here:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/ev_gray/..._graaff_01.htm
and while I was at it, added a main EV Gray tube page to my website:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/ev_gray/index.htm

So far, no radiant event. But it's early days.

I took C1 out altogether since I realized my Van de Graaf machine is a capacitor, but I kept the microwave oven diode on the positive lead. Also, I started out with C2 as a 5kV, 5uF capacitor but given the small current from the Van de Graaff machine, it charged way to slowly. So I replaced it with a homemade 340picofarad capacitor and then it charged just fine to 1500kV.

I do wonder if I should be using a pulsing power supply. i.e. Should the input to the circuit be a high voltage, DC spike? Or is it okay that the only spikes that happen are a result of the spark gap between the HV and LV rods and the arcing in the gap between the HV rod and the grid? In the latter case I guess I'm relying on the diodes to keep any spike DC without oscillations. I have a scope but I'd hate to use it in this case since the one connection of the scope probe is Earth ground and I don't want any Earth ground in this circuit. I want it entirely floating out of fear of Earth grounding destroying any quantum vacuum energy tapping effect.

Aaron, I mentioned your name in the youtube description and on the web pages. Let me know if you don't want it there and I'll remove it. I like giving credit where due.
-Steve

Hi Aaron

I am happy to see the diagram you posted.
I have never seen it before, but it confirms that my findings are indeed correct.
When no spark gap is used, parts of the circuit resistance will not be opend/closed by the spark, because it is not there.
That is the reason why i use diodes in a non-spark setup.
It's only a means to Prevent unwanted oscillations which may overlap repetition rate ,poisioning the clean DC and happens when there is back flow.

Marcoz.

Hello Antenna

If you use a overshoot gap that is constantly triggerd due to the voltage being too high, this will create an awefull lot of RF noise that can be seen on all lines around the circuit making it un-stable.
There are several ways to charge the capacitors.
You can pulse a big coil and extract it's inductive kickback, which works great to charge caps because the output voltage goes much higher then the input spike.
Or use voltage multipliers, adding and removing stages and adjusting frequency and input voltage untill the desired voltage is reached.

Or you can put in a regulator which regulate power to the ignition coil or flyback so that its output is lower.
Tunning is simple, just turn it up unloaded untill the cap reaches 4Kv and then when it drops too much when loaded, you can turn it up some more.
Monitoring the voltage of the cap can be done by using a simple 10:1 divider so when there is 4000V in the cap, your DMM will show 400Volts.
Small note: Ignition coils can charge low capacity caps rather fast, but when it comes to keeping it charged in a running setup, they usually cannot keep up with the discharge so usually lots of current is needed on the input stage that drives the low resistance primary,it will get hot, can melt or even explode when overdriven too much.
For example i have some ignition coils that are designed for 12Volts, i put in like 30Volts, but i cannot operate it continously without damaging the coil, and it get's really hot too.

Thumbrule spark: 1cm=10Kv
If you do use an overshoot gap just start with one mm then it should fire at a 1000 Volts, then adjust the gap to like 3mm than watch what it does and so you can adjust it by starting with the smalles distance.
When caps are charged over their operating voltage, then can violently explode, a messy and dangerous situation, be carefull.

Don't take any risk and DISCHARGE before modifying your circuit.
4Kv is leathal.

Marcoz.

Hello Steve
It should always be High Voltage DC.
Waiting untill it fires due to enough voltage potential diffrence between the elements, is similar to the brute force methode Tesla used.

In a well designed tube, like Gray's, the circuit is switched by capacitance at a constant rate, If input voltage is stable.
The chance of someone building a tube of the correct values for the first time, is limited, but even the brute force methode can show the basic effect.
There are certain calculations to be taken into account, relating to Grid-Anode capacity's, which is being determined by the spacing and dimentions of the elements.
Even humidity plays a great,Great role.
Gray explained it by saying something about lightning being stronger close to the ground.
The frequency of my circuit change a lot whenever i breathe at it

Marcoz.