Dear mylurye,

Here is a revised schematic per your changes. Check my bridge connections. I don't know for sure if you prefer to drive the spark gap with the (+) swing or the (-) swing.

I know you like to keep your comments brief, but I'm in need of a little more description of what you are using for a motor. Due to technical reasons (land line) I'm unable to review your fine YouTube clips. If I could I wouln't be bothering you with such simple questions.

If you have a moment could you describe:

1. The gap distance

2. size and type of storage battery

3. proper polarities - I'm sure I've made some mistakes here

4. History of the circuit if there is any thing to share.

Thank you in advance, and thanks again for sharing this circuit.

Mark McKay

Attached Images

mlurye Motor Driver Ver 2.0.jpg (74.2 KB, 55 views)

Mark,
I did modify schema as it should be.
I'm not using battery as shown on picture, in my setup I have regulated power supply.
And there is not much history, I was watching Gray's schema and trying to understand what different components do. And the result is my schema.

Attached Images

mlurye Motor Driver Ver 2.0.jpg (73.2 KB, 61 views)

I tried to remove limiting diode and actually it didn't affect performance. And based on my observations discharging cap is not getting fully charged when it's triggered to discharge.
Am I missing something? Any comments or ideas.

Mike take a voltage reading across the DC posts of your bridge.

Beshires1, don't have equipment to measure HV.
Here is new video YouTube - Motor Based on Grays Patents 2
System accelerates fast, power consumption ~30W, but as I said, it reached the limit.

How can you tell it consumes 30W if you can't measure the voltage input after rectified?

Is capacitor 0.8 uF needed ?

@Beshires1. My power supply working through Kill-A-Watt so I can see how much power does it takes.
@boguslaw: I was using cap out of microwave, but if you have 2, 3 or 4uF it would be even better.

Dear mlurye

How big of Power Supply are you using? I mean what is its upper limit on amperage? I plan to use a wet cell anyway. But my 2A regualted supply gives different results as compared to my 10A power supply when driving ignition coils.

Also could you give me a hint as to what you are using as a motor or inductive load. I feel blind by not being able to see your videos.

Dear Aaron,

I have your circuits drafted as well, but I will have to wait till I get back to work. AutoCAD 2008 will convert directly to .jpg or .pdf while AutoCAD 2000 (which I have at home) can't seem to convert to anything useful at all.

Mark McKay

Mark,
Power supply is autotransformer with rectifying bridge and cap. Autotransformer is having 5A fuse. When I'm running my motor Kill-A-Watt is showing 0.4A, 120V. (I'm changing input voltage so Amp draw is changing).
My motor is: now I'm using 8 x 12V solenoid coils and motor is disk with neo magnets. See picture.
I did corrected schema some more, you can check it above.
Are you planning to try this schema?

Attached Images

vlcsnap-1394250.JPG (49.0 KB, 32 views)

Hi Mark,

I'll post a very simple mod to any waters sparkplug circuit for anyone to get started with the bare basic effect. If you want to draw that up from my hand sketch, that would be great!

You gotta name your own mods

Out of literally dozens of variations I have successfully made, this is
probably the simplest based on circuits that quite a few people already
have put together (the water sparkplug thread). Just put a load in
between the booster cap diode and cap. There are a lot of variations
that can be done with this one circuit...this is just one.

Front side cap can be as low as 1-2 uf's but probably works best 4-10uf minimum. Backside cap can be bigger or smaller...both can be charged with
efficient oscillaors like the Imhotep or Aromaz oscillator like I showed
already... Mlurye is using a variation of Aromaz' one that I posted but
instead of the pnp, you can use a 2n2222 in the same place.

Aaron,
You are correct I've got an idea on power supply from Aromaz. But unfortunately I couldn't make it work with 2n2222 (you need specific version of them), and it will not work in my schema (I tried). So I came up with my own feedback idea. It works every time and it's easy to setup and you can use any PNP transistor.
Did you try your schema in any kind of motor?
What is your power supply? (If you can show your schema complete with power supply and parts used it would be nice)

Murakami,
I can't see it. Please show me the resemblance of this circuit to Grey's. I am Not as electrically inclined as most, and sometimes need a tutor.Thanks

This is one of many variations of multiple circuits I have done that will get the exact same EFFECT as the patent schematic and posted this because it will be easiest for anyone to experience it since many people here already have the water sparkplug circuit made and simply need to put a load where I indicated.

I can do it in multiple different ways with the tube using the 3 points...both rods and grids...and in multiple different ways simply using a single gap as shown in this schematic.

One of my Gray Tube vids, I already showed the schematic, which is identical to Gray's schematic according to the patent. And I showed an inductor charging by the cap 38 discharging from Grid to rods...so you should already have that schematic as well.

Hi Mike,

I need some real magnets before applying it to a motor. I'll probably use my bicycle wheel and put magnets every 90 degrees for starters just to make it run. I find the 2n2222's a little tricky to get to work as well. I didn't try using a winding around the coil body to trigger it yet so that may help.

I'm very interested in getting the effect at high frequency and not necessarily to run a motor.

When I used one of the recovery windings on the trifilar when it was setup as a pendulum...one single pulse recovered 175 volts in the 4000v/u2f cap...not much but there is no doubt with everything matched up and tuned you can get quite a bit back.

I just did one interesting experiment with my schema. I replaced driving cap 0.8uF with 56nF cap. And to my surprise it worked I can see that speed a little bit slower but power consumption is down.

P.S. Adjusted triggering point and got my speed back with low power consumption.

i tried the 2n2222's (the aromaz circuit again and they were the correct 2n2222's) and couldnt get it to work either ...lights up cfl's ok as a test....mind you i am no guru with this stuff....so i might try the pnp next....

Drove my schema 10 min nonstop. 2n3055 not even worming up. Before it was getting hot in 30 sec.

i could hear the ignition coil bubbling yesterday when i was trying out the circuit....had to turn it off in a hurry

nat don't power it up with more than 12V to begin with. Increase power later as needed.
Other things to consider when tuning up the system:
Materials of spark gap (My is aluminum nails inside of pan body)
Size of spark gap (It should be as small as possible, but don't short circuit it)
Size of caps (played with them until desired speed or tork achieved, my for now is 2.35nF and 70.5nF)

ok will do

Just tuned schema a little bit. It looks like disk is spinning at 1500-2000 rpm.
Kill-A-Watt died The only way now I can consider power consumption by checking 2n3055 temperature and it is not heating up.

New movie with my setup uploaded if anybody is interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqMf9DC6D-w

thanks for the video

Dear Mike,

I'm having challenges with the excitation darlington pair. I have a bunch of 2N2907's which have very similuar specs to the 2N3906 model (VCE -60V, hfe 100-300 Ic = 200 mA) you are using. However I've blown about 5 of them. (I've got 200 left) I get one spark from the output and then nothing. The 2N3055 seems to survive this assult. I attempted to reduce the loop gain by adding a current limiting resistor to the base of the 2N3055. I started with 30 Ohms and kept reducing it until the signal transistor pop again. I never could find a "sweet spot" where a continuous arc would form with this approach.

My pick up coil is 12 turns of #20 stranded wire wound in a tight coil towards the top of the ignition coil. I think the ignition coil is a 1:100 but it might be a little hotter than that since it is advertised as being "Hot". I'm using a 25 Ahr lawn tractor battery - 12V for the power source.

Any ideas from your background and experiance with this circuit?

Mark McKay

Mark,
Could you draw or make a picture of your coil connections?

Dear Aaron,

I want to build your Green Arc circuit, since I probably have all the components on my bench, but I would like to get some idea of the proper component values.

I am leary of connecting diodes to the HI side of an ignition coil since I have added so many of them my to "Hall of Flame" collection in that mannor. What are your proposed diode ratings for the three diodes you have showing?

Also about how large should I make that inductor?

You show a mechanical contact driving the primary of the ignition coil. How fast should that be buzzing? any idea as to a good working duty factor for the "ON" state. I can use a self stepping Imhotep relay, but that limits the coil current to about 2.6A and runs at 125 Hz. But I think mechanical contacts might be where its at in the long run. Once we know how to tune them.

Also, I'm not sure where the power is suppose to be applied. Across the primary tank capacitor? I assume 12V is fine to start with.

Between your circuit and Mike's circuit I should be busy for a few weeks.

I notice your interest in water arcs. Have you seen the article in Electric Space Craft Journal about 4 years ago? A fine piece of garage research. Be glad to send you a .jpg copy.

Mark McKay

Dear Mike,

I shall photograph it this evening and send it tomorrow. Perhaps you might see some other errors as well.

Mark McKay

Mark,
Here is test I want you to try. Make sure that NOTHING is connected to the HV output of Ignition coil. (Just to be clear: Wire around the coil should be connected to the base of PNP, other end not connected to anything) And try to start oscillator, if everything is OK you should hear buzzing sound. If oscillations do not start you could quickly tap base of 2n3055 with 12V.
Also I don’t know what so special about 2n2907 but try to replace them with TIP41 or equivalent transistor.

@Aaron,
Forgive me if I'm being dense, and I've been trying to follow this thread closely, but I think I might be missing something.

On your circuit above, doesn't the cap on the left just constantly discharge through the coil? Didn't you mean to have the anode of the first diode connected to the other side of the switch (similar to water spark plug)?

If not, how does the cap maintain enough charge to trigger the coil primary?

WTF