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  #31  
Old 11-29-2008, 01:07 PM
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Aaron

Ed Gray Tube, can help us to transform radiant energy in usefull electricity?
Or well is necessary charge capacitors for example, to after be discharged on inductors to get mechanical work ?

I think this tube can create AC electricity because Bearden explains us only potential is usefull realize work. Many days ago, looking on panacea I found a document about Avramenko plug is like a ED TUBE proof of concept or like electricity transmission one wire. Avramenko document explain us how potential can get warm a screw driver meanwhile amp draw is lower.
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2008, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patmac View Post
Aaron

Ed Gray Tube, can help us to transform radiant energy in usefull electricity?
Or well is necessary charge capacitors for example, to after be discharged on inductors to get mechanical work ?

I think this tube can create AC electricity because Bearden explains us only potential is usefull realize work. Many days ago, looking on panacea I found a document about Avramenko plug is like a ED TUBE proof of concept or like electricity transmission one wire. Avramenko document explain us how potential can get warm a screw driver meanwhile amp draw is lower.
This is very interesting.I'd like to use Gray tube for creating efficient heater. Could you post a link for Avramenko document with screwdriver experiment ?
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  #33  
Old 11-29-2008, 05:55 PM
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relay

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Originally Posted by Beshires1 View Post
By the way great videos! It sounds like you are using a emergency flasher to pulse the ignition coil?
That is a typical relay that was used to charge a cap from a source then discharge it into the primary of an ignition coil. The same basic test system that was used by some of us in the Water Sparkplug thread.
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2008, 06:03 PM
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mechanical work from tube

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Aaron

Ed Gray Tube, can help us to transform radiant energy in usefull electricity?
Or well is necessary charge capacitors for example, to after be discharged on inductors to get mechanical work ?

I think this tube can create AC electricity because Bearden explains us only potential is usefull realize work. Many days ago, looking on panacea I found a document about Avramenko plug is like a ED TUBE proof of concept or like electricity transmission one wire. Avramenko document explain us how potential can get warm a screw driver meanwhile amp draw is lower.
The output from the tube does give useful "electricity." I have pulsed a coil from the grids and it repelled a magnet a few inches. This is absolute direct conversion of radiant to mechanical work.
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:58 PM
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boguslaw

This is the link:
Frolov on resonant tuning and the Avramenko plug

If you look this is a great and easy to build proof of concept of Bearden's theory about potential and energy.

Aaron

Thanks, is wonderfull desmitify the great works's Ed Gray.
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2008, 07:36 AM
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Aaron do you think there is potential in the Ed Gray tube design, as in a practical application?

I plan to build a lab soon and recreate some of Tesla's earliest proof-of-concept experiments, but was wondering wheather it would be worth it?
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:42 PM
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Gray Tube practical application

Hi Paradox,

Yes, I think so

From where I have it now, what I would do is to focus on cap dumps and not the ignition coil input. Then, little by little increase what the caps are dumping in addition to seeing if charging up the LV side can add to it.

From one or two successes in repelling a magnet...which it wasn't too easy to do...conceptually, it is exactly like the schematics that have always been shown but getting the gap just right, the diode on the LV side, etc... if anything is off a bit, it is hard to get. But then again, I don't have anything tided down to tightly. The rods can move easily. I would have them threaded toward the end caps or something and a 2nd ring closer in holding them in place so they stay centered.

The output of this can turn a magnetic rotor on a shaft connected to a magneto or something. That electrical output, which very likely can be much more than what is leaving the battery input source, would be a very desirable thing. Very practical. Everything should be precision and mine isn't.

I think if people just replicated my simple experiments that I already showed on videos, they will see more progress in the next few months than the last 7 years combined of failed attempts. I say failed because I have yet to see one demo of sending HV across to the LV rod and having that potential get turned away by the diode closing and choosing the secondary path towards grids. One of my vids clearly shows that and I am surprised nobody else has archived this.

What I see is that the technology conceptually is so simple and there are two things that prevented people from getting it. One is that hardly anyone understood what the energy is and the other is that Gray's own diode diagram was reversed in his drawings - either because it was a mistake or it was intentional to throw people off from figuring it out if they saw that one simple revealing thing on what is really happening.

I'll post a diagram proving my point.
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:48 PM
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Thumbs up Gray Tube Diode Facts

I hope that anyone interested will make use of this info. I have always known how it worked from the moment Peter's book came out (I didn't know Peter at the time) in concept and it wasn't until this summer that I learned that everyone didn't see it how I did.

I was wondering why nobody had replicated anything from the patents by then. I have seen replication claims but what they accomplished had nothing to do with what this tube is supposed to do. What helped me is that I didn't know how to read a triode diagram I assumed it was like what Bedini later showed in his diagrams because reading all the Gray stuff, etc..., none of it made sense unless the diode's cathode was pointing to the rod...in my opinion.

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  #39  
Old 11-30-2008, 11:01 PM
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Where can you find the rest of the correct diagram? I'm just interested in looking at it.

Thanks
Matt
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2008, 11:14 PM
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Gray Tube diagrams

Hi Matthew,

Just about everything else is right. Peter did fill in some blanks. You can look at Bedini's diagrams:

John Bedinis' EV Gray power conversion tube - 06/05/01

You can see 4 diagrams here. Just click on the thumbnails.
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  #41  
Old 11-30-2008, 11:24 PM
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Never ran accross that one. Thanks alot

Matt
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2008, 03:49 AM
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Thank you for that Aaron, there are some real gems on that page. I think I saw that page before but didn't really understand it well. It's funny but I'm really starting to see what I was missing before; it's kind of a gestalt thing that's difficult to explain.

Thanks again; excellent information (including the above)!
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2008, 04:28 AM
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Gray Tube Diagrams from John Bedini

Here are the pics John Bedini put in the public domain after Peter released his book. I posted them here for convenience:


The above machine is for healing purposes. I have the exact machine but capacitor is a little narrower but taller. It runs on pure aether.









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  #44  
Old 12-01-2008, 05:02 AM
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thoughts on Gray Tube

As a note on these diagrams, they were from from as far back as 1979 - that is 29 years ago. So the schematics are accurate but the idea that electrons are moving 90 degrees from rods may not be.

IF there is electron current, I think the electrons would be moving to the highest positive potential and not the lowest. Those descriptions on the notes may be what Ed Gray told Bedini. I never asked John about this.

Also, when the HV potential is split from the current path, it moves to a lower potential positive back to a common ground via the battery. That definitely is what is happening here and because of that, how is electron current towards the lower potential?

When the HV POTENTIAL is just sitting on on the HV rod, the distance from that rod to the grids is obviously too far for the voltage of the capacitor to jump. Otherwise, it would jump the very moment the cap reaches the breakdown voltage of that space. It does not so that is my deduction of what the distance must be...at least more distance than the voltage in the cap can jump.

To initiate the jump of the HV to anywhere, which is to the LV rod on the other side, it sees no path to ground UNTIL the commutator connects the annode of the diode to the LV battery +. THEN it sees a path to ground.

Path to ground is LV rod, through diode, through battery back to common ground shared with the HV capacitor. By the time it jumps, the diode has the reverse flow and shuts off AND/OR the commutator is unswitched to disconnect. You have a floating potential there...suspended in mid transist when the diode slams shut and that side is disconnected from the LV source (the HV's easiest path to ground - since that gap is MUCH shorter than distance from rods to grids).

Where does this orphan pure radiant potential go? It can't sink to ground through a shut off diode especially when the commutator physically disconnects that path.

It has only one place to go...the grids! Then through an inductive load to charge that coil and back to a cap (safety mechanism inserted before that potential hits a battery directly).

HOW can lets say 4000v from the HV cap go to the grids now when it couldn't get to the grids before? That is ALL TELLING! Before the LV path to ground was connected, that voltage surely was NOT able to get to the grids so it had to wait to get switched. AFTER the LV path to ground was switched and abruptly shut off, suddenly it DID have enough pressure to jump the further distance to the grids!

If the diode/triode was reversed like Gray shows, the HV discharge would not have a chance to increase in potential by any kind of compression...it would simply go from whatever potential it was to a lower potential and have no real chance of giving real performance at the coil.

That is because that potential is increasing by seriously being compressed into a blip in time - time compression..that increases the voltage and further reduces and possible current in that particular impulse.

This was brilliantly shown in the Water Sparkplug thread. I couldn't quickly find the post with the scope shots showing that the HV against a diode from a LV source increased the discharge speed. If anyone has that exact post reference, please post it here because it is very telling of what happens here as well.

It is increased enough to make that jump and be totally free of current from its initial path.

The only source of electrons flow would be from the ground or the + on the LV source. There are 2 paths this electron current flow can go to a higher potential (the higher potential is the HV + on the capacitor, the hv rod). And also from the + on battery over inductor and to the grids sitting there.

Anyway, there is a lot of ponder on the current flow itself.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2008, 08:27 AM
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Aaron, where are you now in terms of experiment, did you design the inductive load yet, if so would you like to share? What about changing the LV side to HV? What would be the effect?
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  #46  
Old 12-01-2008, 10:19 PM
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LV side ratings

Hi Gauss,

I have used two different inductive loads.

The first was a coreless spool of fine magnet wire maybe 28 gauge. I put a ceramic magnet inside the middle and have seen subtle movements on the magnet with some tests.

The second was a small coil with welding rod for the core. I sat a ceramic magnet on top of this core and had it jump a few inches on one test that was difficult to replicate. But that was enough to see that the concept of the Gray Tube worked and the diode definitely has to have the cathode towards the LV rod.

The LV side I believe can be any voltage as long as it is just LOWER than the HV side. If the HV side is 4000v then the LV side can be 3999 conceptually...but I would keep it much lower and higher capacitance. Gray used a 12V battery...assuming standard car battery and similar amp rating so I think for the real Gray Tube replication on the same scale, a 12V car battery should be at the LV side.

If anyone wants to experiment with the Gray Tube and use an Ignition coil on the HV side, I'd use around 400v and 4~couple hundred uf's similar to the LV side on the water sparkplug circuits.
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2008, 05:28 AM
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LV follows HV?

Here is where there is no evidence yet...

With the LV source. Once the HV gets rejected by a closed diode and jumps to the grids, does the LV source use that jumped "spark" as a conductive pathway to jump after the HV to add to it? It would be like what is happening in the water sparkplug thread.

I made the magnet jump with dead capacitors on the LV side...just polarized. That is evidence just as we have seen in the water sparkplug circuits that the LV side can be virtually nothing.

That rules out the necessity of having something on the LV side for small scale demo of just showing the principle.

But will some actual punch in the LV side help and does it follow the HV discharge over to the grids? I don't know but with the LV path physically disconnecting, the carbon resistor, etc... everything is against those odds but that doesn't mean the LV isn't necessary for full bore replication of the Gray Tube to make serious power.

This is one area that needs to be understood.
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  #48  
Old 12-02-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
With the LV source. Once the HV gets rejected by a closed diode and jumps to the grids, does the LV source use that jumped "spark" as a conductive pathway to jump after the HV to add to it?
I think so. Alexander Grey stated in a 1919 publication, describing the workings of the Mercury Vapor tube, That the low voltage DC needed help in jumping a sparkgap. But he also says that once it started bridging the gap it could be stretched quite a way.
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  #49  
Old 12-02-2008, 06:56 AM
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LV following HV

That's interesting and possible Beshires.

In the water sparkplug thread, I learned that is common in some welding applications. My "big thing" when I saw people claiming that is what was automatically happening was that it was done with really nothing on the LV side except for polarity and a diode to slam shut. That didn't mean the LV couldn't follow the HV but wasn't required.

Anyway, I did get a magnet to jump with empty caps on the LV side but just polarized so I don't believe it is necessary but that doesn't mean that it can't help boost it if there is something on the LV side.

I believe it can be booster. That is where some of my water sparkplug tests took me. I found that it was NOT the cause of the plasma spark, but it could add to it.

Anyway, I'll post some simplified schematics of a Gray Tube circuit. But I'll say potentially, the most complicated part is the most effective HV charger to charge a cap to 4-5kv and from 4-12uf.

4000v 4uf and up to 5kv 12uf...seems to be the range that I've seen referenced in any of the Gray stuff. That doesn't mean that a smaller cap can't work but maybe these discharges are needed for serious torque...especially when the rotor gets hits with three blasts per rotation...they cold definitely be synchronized for super torque if the caps were charged up fast enough.

I'm comfortable starting with the HV side being up to 1200v at about 20uf or so and the LV side being a 12v car battery IF I have a carbon resistor on the LV rod. If not, then I'll do the tests with just caps on the LV side.
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  #50  
Old 12-02-2008, 06:59 AM
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How about lightning looking for the oak tree? Oak tree being LV anode and cloud being HV anode. Look at the geometry of the top of the tree and the tree trunk, it might yield a result.

Then please read the book "Introduction to dielectric & Magnetic discharges in electrical windings" by Eric Dollard(this guy is a key figure of radiant energy, just like Meyl, that is why both are harassed, those who are not harassed are not so knowledgeable, terrible but true).

I quote(copyright Dollard): "Unlike magnetism the dielectric energy is forced or compressed inwards rather than outwards" .. the force lines are mutually repellent but the dielectric phenomena is basically longitudinal... -the smaller the space bounded by the conducting structure the more energy that can be stored.... exact opposite of magnetism.. volumes of energy in dielectricity are working in series and not in parallell like magnetism..


How about the oak tree? It has a wide top area narrowing down its area to the tree trunk. Just what it takes to release a big energy according to Dollard. Now try to apply this thinking to a LV receiver of a spark.

I am sure this is how Gray thought about lightning and his tube.

Btw, thanks Aaron for your info, keep us posted if you finish your design, I think the inductive load is just as much key to success as the tube.
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  #51  
Old 12-02-2008, 07:34 AM
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lightning

Hi Gauss,

I think you're right. I've read some of Dollard's stuff and heard some more. Peter worked and knew him very well for years.

Most people see the Earth as a negative/ground. It can act as a ground but can act as a POSITIVE radiant potential.

I think there were references to lightning from Gray?
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  #52  
Old 12-02-2008, 07:35 AM
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Gray Tube Simplified

Here is just some of my thoughts of where to go with this for simplicity sake:

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  #53  
Old 12-02-2008, 03:14 PM
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Thanks Aaron, great job! I will check details later. I am thinking about the ultimate pick up geometry of radiant charge and then how to time the inductive load magnets. Were you thinking about one tube, one wheel or several tubes with one flywheel at different phase angles? Back EMF?

It seems this LV-HV anode thinking is a real progress from the Tesla spark gap designs. Very rare indeed...

Progress is music..
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:10 PM
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multi tubes

Hi Gauss,

From that diagram, I would just do 1 wheel with some magnets, one tube and one coil. If that wheel spins from the pulses from the coil powered by grid output, then powering an inductive load with this method will be proven.

Another thing is to time two tubes to power two coils and the coils repel...that would be serious torque to have to opposing coils push from each other instead of permanent magnets.

I would definitely move to multi coils/tubes/etc... after that.

If timing works at TDC, then it could be a pendulum with one magnet on it that will work in both directions. With a commutator switch on the shaft, it could be easily turned to find optimum timing. There are several variables that would affect timing I would imagine. Gap distance, diode shut off time, distance to grids from rods, etc...

On that diagram I posted, I'm sure the coil could be a bifilar with the recovery winding going through a full bridge to charge caps for any purpose.
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  #55  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:18 AM
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Hi Aaron
Does S1 and S2 work alternatively? If so I think a person could use a solid state alternating electronic flasher unit to switch the low voltage from S1 to S2 to help establish proof of concept. Something like this Amazon.com: Tridon EL13A-2.PFL Electronic Flasher: Automotive I'm using a 2 post thermal one to drive my ignition coil, works great. Just had to attach a automotive condenser across the switch (flasher). Remember the spark from the coil comes as the connection is broken.
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  #56  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:48 PM
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Well done Aaron! I get your points and I like your thinking. The double coil idea seems very interesting if the power does not break the load....

Since yesterday I am beginning to think about the real difference between a cap and a spark gap. Has anyone tried to pick up radiant from a cap, especially the last one in the Gray wiring? If we have a plate cap the difference between the cap and the spark gap is merely a question about geometry and dielectric constants. We have seen the guys like Inkatel prove overunity with multi spark gaps and the caps are a sure way to increase the radaint effect, in fact it seems like there are minor differences. The space is limited in both cases which increases the voltage pressure. Just a thought btw.

How about this wild idea. We need to integrate the Patterson cell thinking into the Gray tube. Fill it up with thousands of small coated dielectric beads, maybe we wil increase the receiving power many times. Remember he achieved 4000 times OU, the aether is spherical, why is nobody trying??!

The experiment is worthwhile I believe. Btw I also like the idea of putting the diode inside the tube.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:47 PM
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switching

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Hi Aaron
Does S1 and S2 work alternatively?
Hi Beshires,

I think S2 and S3 can be locked closed. S1 is the only one switching off/on while running. S2 can be disconnected at anytime to prevent battery overcharge.

The recovery could be sent to a separate battery + and the - of that second recovery battery neg would simply be tied to the common ground.
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  #58  
Old 12-04-2008, 09:43 AM
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After more consideration I believe the microspheres will induce a massive magnetic pulse together with the HV radiant pulse.

This means the Gray cell already obviously has an inductive coupling via the concentric cylinders but many microspheres undoubtedly will make the HV pulse turn sideways in vortex fashion around the mini spheres(every sphere pair will contain a dielectric field between them ending on the conductors) hence initiating friction and a magnetic pulse(followed by some current I assume since Gray grounds the copper cage with a cap, whyare we not discussing that part).

Since the HV pulse moves instantly through the tube and the magnetic pulse follows through each successive movement over the mini spheres(concentric cylinders) the current will always fall behind, unclear how this works in the cable from the tube to the flywheel, obviously only the magnetic pulse will follow the dielectric one. If we design the cable from the tube to the flywheel everything will be better.

We are moving ahead now, this is important, I can feel it. I also may be wrong but that is ok, it is human.
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:13 PM
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grids and ground

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(followed by some current I assume since Gray grounds the copper cage with a cap, whyare we not discussing that part).
The grids go first to an inductive load, then cap, then battery, which has the common ground with the initial HV source. The cap is optional and is for protection so battery doesn't explode.

The other place the grids are grounded is the safety gap. In case the inductive load can't take any more from the grids, the excess can overshoot the gap directly go ground right by the HV cap.

This is all already on all the diagrams.

I think the idea of the spheres is interesting. I have a few notebooks of different variations of different things I want to try with the Gray Tube. I'm looking forward to completing just the first bare basic way the patents and Bedini's diagrams show until I do anything different.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:21 PM
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Hi guys. I had an idea, it could be stupid one but I felt like I have to share it to somebody . Ok here we go:
Grays tube is controlling device and voltage incrising in one. Based on mechanical devices he was directing current 2 ways and in tube current was going in lowest resistence path + increased voltage from sparking. I think that's all what tube was doing. No other magic
Does any of you know if it's possible to disassemble ignition coil and redesign it to HV electromagnet?
Thank for any responce
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Last edited by mlurye; 12-04-2008 at 05:55 PM.
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