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  #391  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
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The Zero Point

After frame by frame analysis of video taped operation of a CSET, I can see that the spark gap fires about three times per second. This is consistent with the estimated pulse rate of one of the old vibrator tubes of around 100 per second, which powers the transformer. This, of course, doesn't equate to the interrupter rate of 6,000 per second. So it's my opinion that both of these frequencies were present in the arc, when it formed. If so, this could account for the excess energy.

When two waves of two different frequencies travel through a medium, there will be times when the faster changing wave overtakes the slower wave. When this happens, electrical forces between nearby nodes and anti nodes produce a gradient which polarizes momentarily appearing quantum potentials. These potentials, when they appear, produce a stress in the curvature of space. Likewise, when the potentials almost immediately recombine, the underlying space time metric is relaxed. In fact, it's high frequency vibrations of this metric which cause the potentials to spontaneously appear, when they do. The amount of energy which can spontaneously appear in this fashion is inversely proportional to the size of the volume's wavelength, with an infinite amount of Energy potentially appearing in a Point which has the dimensionality of Zero.

Gradients arising from inter nodal forces between adjacent waves polarize these quantum fluctuations so that dipoles appear, oriented in the direction the waves are traveling. As the higher frequency (or higher voltage) wave starts to pull away from the other, these dipoles are stretched. When this charge separation reaches a certain distance, it's no longer statistically probable that the quantum charges will recombine. This produces an electrical force on one end of the dipole and an anti-magnetic force on the other end. This results in an increased voltage across the medium and a cancellation of magnetic heat in the nearby environment. Or the wires ice up, if all forces stay within a circuit.

This twin frequency is also shown in Pat. #3890548, Fig. 1, as 21a and 22a. These are the pulses which are sent through the magnetically associated motor harness coils. (The delay lines) The interaction of these different frequencies is probably what caused the buzzing sound witnesses reported coming from the motor.

With my diode T-Tap, the transformer and the arc make a loud buzzing sound, since the frequency of the diode tap is a lot higher than that of the transformer's supply. This might account for what seems to me to be a considerably greater amount of energy in the sparks flying around rapidly in my CSET, compared to the normal sparks I can get with just the transformer. If this is the case, then I should be able to charge a capacitor a lot faster with the CSET than with the transformer. Provided the diode is oriented correctly. (Cathode pointing towards the negative pole of the battery.)
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  #392  
Old 01-24-2009, 01:48 AM
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Motor As RF Choke

There's no doubt that the CSET is an rf device, since it incorporates a spark and inductive coupling. Farnsworth pointed out that a coil which acts as an rf choke will still pass a positive longitudinal signal at the same frequency. So the energy going through an EV Gray motor's coils isn't a normal electrical impulse.

This is supported by three factors: Ed Gray stated that the magnetic field acted in 360 degrees. John Bedini's diagram shows the North Pole force on the side of the coil, rather than the end. And the coil core laminations are shaped differently on each side, at the points of opposition, which correlates with the first two factors.
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  #393  
Old 01-24-2009, 08:51 AM
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interesting info

Hi Electrotek,


I just want to take a moment to say Thanks for your contributions to this thread and I am blown away to see a guy with your background of experience trying to help others in this forum.I find Time and Space to be a very interesting subject depending on ones point of view .I have been a bit busy of late trying to piece together a motor design based on Peters design but not exactly like his concept nor with the degree of precision like Jetijs but it should suffice to teach me a couple of things that I have been wondering about.I think you have some very interesting data that you have presented to all .


-Gary
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  #394  
Old 01-24-2009, 05:54 PM
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Hi Gary,

Thanks for the sentiment. There is a virtue in helping others, and virtue is one of the few things we can take with us. After we're gone, the only thing which really matters is what we were able to do with our time, and what we leave behind. I hope to leave a greater light of understanding in the world, even if only in some small area.

Good luck with your motor!

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  #395  
Old 01-25-2009, 03:01 PM
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Some experiments on CSET that were done in 2003. You might pick up some good ideas. http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/MKay5.pdf
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  #396  
Old 01-25-2009, 04:10 PM
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Thanks for posting the link. A lot of Mark's stuff has been helpful.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:57 AM
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E.V Gray Research Results to Date

Dear E.V. Gray Researchers,

Here are a few potential historical facts (or so I think) that might help you in your exploration of this fantistic technology.

1. The EMA6 motor failed. It could only produce 2 HP. It appears that all attempts to improve the situation failed, even up till 1979 when the whole project was confiscated by the FCC. This means that Mr. Hackenburger overlooked something when he attempted to reverse engineer the working EMA4-E2. The CSET's have never produced any OU that has been documented. However they do look neat. - But, this doesn't mean that this approach is not without merit. Gary Magratten seems to be getting something from his work.

2. At the time (1971-1975) Richard Hackenburger thought the "magic" was in the rotating commentator discs. He clearly states this in some recovered documents that "Kenitic Energy" is a required energy input. The output is increased torque. He also believes that oxygen is the source of the non-classical energy in some kind of electron avalanch process. The fixed electrodes in his CSET failed to provide for the "stretching process".

3. The EMA5 never made it beyond the fabrication of the case. It was dropped during the 1975 LA DA raid. The thickness of the shell was about 1". This implies that some pretty close tolerances were needed to make things work right since a case that heavy should not have suffered very much damage.

4. Recent photos and documentation point to a process where the EMA4-E2 motor actually was designed to strike electrical arcs between the stator and the rotor in an axial magnetic field (like a vacuum interupter). It appears that this was done between the "Minor" electromagnets. This arc was then stretched for 13 degrees at a speed of 384 inches per second then quenched. I propose that it was the dragging of the arc across the dielectric blocks (most likely Delrin) in the stator that did the trick. This is the method that Ken Sholders uses to make his "Charge Clusters", however what ever Cole was doing probably produced a particle flux several orders of magnitude greater. - If that is what was going on.

5. The working EMA4-E2 DID NOT HAVE a CSET device. The CSET was developed by Richard Hackenburger in 1972 to get the arcing process out of the motor so that such tight machining tolerances were not required. I think he blew it in this conversion. All of the high resolution photos from 1976 show the CSET as a two wire device - not a three wire device as patented by Gray in 1985. What John Bedini shows in his 1973 field notes is not the same as what was displayed in 1976. The aspect ratio is much different and the "grids" are not perforated. Also consider that they has no patent protection for this device. Now, do you think that this age-changing component would be displayed in clear Plexiglas enclosures at a public event if it were so darn improtant?

John Bedini claims that the CSET was a Red Herring. After 5 years of research and interviews I have come to believe him. But don't give up on the idea if you think it will work. Hackenburger couldn't get it to work but that didn't keep Gray from attempting to sell it 10 years later. After all it still looks neat.

6. According to John Bedini, who witnessed the EMA4-E2 first hand in 1973, claims he heard car vibrators inside the top mounted power supply (or something that sounded like them) - just like the patent. Richard came along and converted these to transistor choppers for the EMA6. Again I think he blew it. Look at the facts. By 1972 Marvin Cole had developed at least 4 working OU motor systems of various sizes (according to recovered documents) I assume all of these motors used a collection of mechanical vibrators running at 100Hz. There was some important reason why Mr. Cole stuck with the multiple vibrator approach using several small power supplies rather than having a larger design like what Mr. Hackenburger converted to later.

7. Mr. Hackenburger also developed the second generation "Electrostatic Generator" Black Box (actually dark Blue) that ran at 6KHz. These were solid state transistor versions of the original Cole Black Boxes. The only problem is that they didn't work, and that is why they never came into production. However, the original Cole generators did work very well and this is what E.V. Gray use in all his demonstrations that brought in the $$$ starting in 1964. So, for now I would get rid of the MOSFETS, Transistors, and SCR's and focus on approaches similiar to the Gary Porter or Imhotepp devices. Not to mention Dr. Tesla's designs. There is something important hapening in those low voltage micro-arcs. An induction coil seems to be required to harvest the anamolous energy and or non-classical particle.

8. Mr. Hackenburger freely admits (on a recorded phone conversation) that the fundamental Free Energy process starts in the power supply. But by this time (late 1976) they were so strapped for cash that he is driving a Cab to pay his rent, and he is unable to explore this relization that might have come to late. Never the less he sticks with Gray till his death in 1980 when he subcomes to a viral infection that puts him down within a week. (Like Carl Sagan).

9. The main transformer in the power supply was a modified ignition coil made by Mallory Electric Company. The modification increased the cost by 20%. I don't know what that was, but having two primaries may have been the differance. These primaries may not have been equal in the number of turns.

10. Dr. Norm Chalfin of Cal Tech and JPL wrote the pulse motor patent (for a fee). He most likely reported what he saw as best he could. I think he over looked small (but important) details in the vibrator power supply. Dr. Chalfin was a licensed Radio Amatuer who knew his electronics. It is my thought that he thought that the front end power supply was a clsssical push pull chopper design. I disagree. It is a slow pulsing switch mode power supply and not a classical DC to AC chopper. The proof is in the location and function of the output diode. His sketches of the wave forms on the patent schematic are not consistant with that topology. I suppose he was pressed for time. He probably didn't get the opportunity to see how the ignition coil was actually modified internally. I have no doubt that he never did figure out the "secret". I know that Gray never new it - even though he spent the rest of his life attempting to sell it. Mr. Hackenburger might have figured it out towards the end - but I'm not sure.

11. I think the Floating Flux Field is a vital componet and serves some kind of important feedback function. This feature is to be found (but not understood) in Dr. Tesla's table top oscillators from his 1896 work.

12. Someone has put the fear of God into Mr. George Gray who still works in the original Van Nuys location doing high end custom automotive painting. He knows the whole story and has several additional photos of those past events, but consistantly refuses to talk about the matter even to this day. Nor does he want to receive any recovered documentation or photos about his Uncle/Step Father. - I respect his wishes (or fears) but it is a shame that he is the only person remaining that has enough marbles left to shed some light on this saga.

13. My enigneering analysis to date tells me that the Marvin Cole system was actually a series combination of three or more unique sub systems. This combination resulted in the huge energy gains. They are (subject to change)

- The mechanical vibrator / induction coil that generates the anamolous "something"

- This "something" is involved in a regeratative (most likely positive) feedback loop that involves the "Floating Flux Field".

- The huge gain takes place when this stored "something" is discharged in a stretched arc inside the pulse motor. The huge torque gain takes place when the arc is quenched at the right moment. The torque is transfered directly to the rotor, however the process also recharges (and sometimes over charges) the storage capacitors.

- The low impedance of the lead-acid batteries may be crutial in the quenching process and that is why the "energy recovery" process couldn't be elminated even though it was causing the batteries to explode.

Anyway these are my thoughts from what I have been able to dig up so far.

Enjoy,

Mark McKay, PE
mmckay@tycoint.com
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  #398  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:44 AM
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Spokane1

Welcome!

Great points.

It seems the jaw dropper's are coming thick and fast today.

''just when you think you're about to make ends meet, somebody moves the ends''
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  #399  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:53 AM
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Hey Mark, welcome to the forum!!!


Due to your research and interviews, you probably know more about the history of this technology than just about anyone.
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  #400  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:17 AM
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Welcome Mark!

Welcome to the forum Mark.

It was Jeff M and I who came out to your work trailer right after Gary Magratten??sp? released his paper. I guess that was about 7+ years ago. Gary gave me your phone number since we live in the same town.

I'll post more soon...everyone really should study the plasma spark plug circuit more because they will see it I think. Spearmaster pointed out a part of this.
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  #401  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:49 PM
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Thank you Mark,
Your comments are very valuable. It did clear some of my questions.

Mike
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  #402  
Old 01-28-2009, 05:02 PM
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Hackenburger and Gray were probably like everyone else - they could look at a CSET and know instinctively that it should be able to do something. Maybe they didn't know how to wire it up? And if all their grids were evenly spaced, it would only have had one resonant frequency, while two are required for longitudinal effects. Unless, of course, if one grid has half the capacitance of the other. I'm not ready to give up on it yet. Besides, it may have been a charging element, and I wouldn't mind being able to instantly charge a big cap. The patent does start out by saying that the recovery cap powers the load, and this may be how it was charged each time.
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  #403  
Old 01-28-2009, 05:23 PM
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I'm glad I'm trying to replicate the earlier one that worked.
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  #404  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:31 PM
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FYI:

Name Hackenberger, Robert R. "Bob"
Age 84
Died 10/10/2007
Death Place Lewistown
Birth Date 7/29/1923
Birth Place Centre, PA
Father Robert R. Hackenberger*
Mother Julia (Eichman) Hackenberger*
Spouse Mary (Ort) Hackenberger
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:43 PM
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I put my money on the tube...

Hi all,

In the train home I read the pdf posted earlier in this thread:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/MKay5.pdf

Oh, @Spokane1:

Your points are certainly interesting.

However, I did quite some reading recently and I think the secret *is* in the tube, because there is a decent explanation on how it would work. I posted some theories on another thread, which were partly wrong, but in the right direction.

First of all, there is Tesla's power transmission system. Most likely, this works with longitudinal (shock or pressure-like) waves, which up to recently were thought not to exist. However, Prof. Meyl showed that the Maxwell equations *do* support these to exist, *if* you assume there are free charge carriers available in the vacuum. Now Quantum theory predicts that there are positron-electron pairs constantly popping in and out of existence, which is basically the so-called Zero Point Energy, energy that exists even at absolute zero temperature (0 K) and which keeps helium fluid even at absolute 0. So, there *are* free charged particles available in the vacuum after all.

So, longitudinal waves do exist *and* ZPE does exist. All what needs to be done is to extract it. And it is very likely that that is possible using shock-waves *and* that shock-waves auto-strengthen themselves tapping off ZPE, since I don't see how else Tesla's power transmission system could ever come even close to working.

The question is: how do you generate longitudinal waves strong enough to be able to kick those positron-electron pairs floating around such that they separate and become free charge carriers?

The answer to that question appears to be a spark-gap, precisely tuned to support a *spark* jumping over, but *no* arc. In other words: the spark has to be very short. And spark-gaps are certainly capable of emitting energy waves with incredible frequencies, as Bose has shown back in the 1890's:
J.C. Bose: 60 GHz in the 1890s

Coming back to the pdf linked above, there are some very interesting observations in there. One of them is that the resistor on the low-voltage side seems to influence the amount of power generated by the tube. The higher the resistance, the more power.
Another one is the use of magnets to shorten the time of the spark-gap, which is also the reason the diode in the low-voltage system has to be in the direction explained by Aaron:
Directory:EV Gray - PESWiki

(Note that in the pdf the diode is also shown in the wong way...)

Probably the most promising step forward is to install a couple of magnets over the spark gap, and mount these *inside* the tube.

As for the secret being in the design of the motor itself: I don't see how that could result in something over-unity, even though Josef Newman appears to run motors over-unity using very large coils.

So, I put my money on the tube, because I think I understand how it works better and better.
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  #406  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:19 PM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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Humm... compressing energy in time, sounds like Greys capacitors firing 27 times per RPM. at 10,000 RPM, that looks like 270,000 capacitor discharges a minute. Which boils down to 4,500 capacitor discharges per second. Mighty fast discharge rate. I wonder how he charged them capacitors that fast? Humm.. I recon, that commutator looked like a ball of spinning fire what with all the spark gaps it had on it. Humm...........................
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:00 PM
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cap charging

My 4000v/2uf caps charge about 50 volts per relay click. That is about 80 clicks to charge it full. High speed oscillators will have no problem charging bigger caps fast enough, obviously Gray did it. And this is with a bare bones capacitive discharge circuit...a very slow one at that...slow burnt out relay.

Also, the chargers to charge the caps for this purpose are not typical hot current chargers. They are radiant chargers that charge the caps with pure potential without hot electron current.

A radiantly charged capacitor can charge faster than a hot current charged cap.

The output is not the same as a hot current charged capacitor. There are color differences to the output in addition to other properties.

For the equivalent voltage in a regular charged cap versus a radiant one, the radiant one can jump a bigger gap.

This is the first gain in the entire system.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:08 PM
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Thinking further....

I just realised that in the mentioned pdf, the guys had the spark-gap *outside* the tube. That means that the rod inside the tube must be acting as an antenna. Given that the resistor appears to control the amount of power released, it seems that the resistor and the low-voltage circuit might act to absorb the shock-waves bouncing back and forth and thus keep the tube under control.

So, if you would completely disconnect the low voltage side just before the spark jumps, you might see the tube going out of control!

If you try that: be careful and do install the safety spark gaps as shown in the pdf!

I'll continue thinking about this, but now it's time to go to bed.

I hope to start actually building a tube soon. I plan to get one of these cheap one-use camera's with flash and use the high-voltage flashing circuitry to get a high voltage to feed to the spark-gap.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beshires1 View Post
Humm... compressing energy in time, sounds like Greys capacitors firing 27 times per RPM. at 10,000 RPM, that looks like 270,000 capacitor discharges a minute. Which boils down to 4,500 capacitor discharges per second. Mighty fast discharge rate. I wonder how he charged them capacitors that fast? Humm.. I recon, that commutator looked like a ball of spinning fire what with all the spark gaps it had on it. Humm...........................
I think I remember Peter mentioning in one of his videos that he believes Grey charged the caps in parellel and dishcharged in series... Possibly because caps have a lower impedance when they are charged to a lower voltage so they can be charged faster this way, then discharged in series to get the required voltage.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
My 4000v/2uf caps charge about 50 volts per relay click. That is about 80 clicks to charge it full. High speed oscillators will have no problem charging bigger caps fast enough, obviously Gray did it. And this is with a bare bones capacitive discharge circuit...a very slow one at that...slow burnt out relay.

Also, the chargers to charge the caps for this purpose are not typical hot current chargers. They are radiant chargers that charge the caps with pure potential without hot electron current.

A radiantly charged capacitor can charge faster than a hot current charged cap.

The output is not the same as a hot current charged capacitor. There are color differences to the output in addition to other properties.

For the equivalent voltage in a regular charged cap versus a radiant one, the radiant one can jump a bigger gap.

This is the first gain in the entire system.
recon 4000V 2uf is enough to repel those big coils? I was just stating how fast the 27 Huge capacitors Grey used had to be. Humm lets see 1 second =4500 discharges, I dang near forgot, it also had to recharge 4500 times a second. Dang, thats mighty fast to charge those HUGE capacitors. So if you divide that second up time wise thats,.....Hummm....... really dang fast. Sounds like compressing a lot of energy into time to me... May be, that I'm not lookin at it right. Recon where I can find one of those radiant chargers?


Farad

A capacitor's storage potential, or capacitance, is measured in units called farads. A 1-farad capacitor can store one coulomb (coo-lomb) of charge at 1 volt. A coulomb is 6.25e18 (6.25 * 10^18, or 6.25 billion billion) electrons. One amp represents a rate of electron flow of 1 coulomb of electrons per second, so a 1-farad capacitor can hold 1 amp-second of electrons at 1 volt.

A 1-farad capacitor would typically be pretty big. It might be as big as a can of tuna or a 1-liter soda bottle, depending on the voltage it can handle. For this reason, capacitors are typically measured in microfarads (millionths of a farad).

To get some perspective on how big a farad is, think about this:

* A standard alkaline AA battery holds about 2.8 amp-hours.
* That means that a AA battery can produce 2.8 amps for an hour at 1.5 volts (about 4.2 watt-hours -- a AA battery can light a 4-watt bulb for a little more than an hour).
* Let's call it 1 volt to make the math easier. To store one AA battery's energy in a capacitor, you would need 3,600 * 2.8 = 10,080 farads to hold it, because an amp-hour is 3,600 amp-seconds.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:16 PM
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Peter also said, that on every pulse the caps are not discharged fully and you need just keep them topped off instead of charging up from 0.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:45 PM
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Peter also said, that on every pulse the caps are not discharged fully and you need just keep them topped off instead of charging up from 0.
Thats right! because, at ten thousand RPM the capacitor can't discharge fast enough to dump its entire load into a discharge contact . But on the other hand.... Can it keep up the fast charge rate? Humm............
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:25 PM
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@lamare: I think you're on the right track with the magnets. The original patent leading up to the CSET (1861621) specifies using an atmosphere of hydrogen or alcohol to quench the arc. So this is important.

@Beshires1: Don't forget that the power in a capacitor is related to the square of the voltage. At 100 Volts, you'd only need a 1 Farad cap to store the energy of the little battery, and so on.

This is one of the factors which make a higher operating voltage important. Another factor is that the magnetic field from a coil expands faster with a higher voltage, when the amps are the same. (The number of amp-turns determines the field strength, at any voltage.)
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:51 AM
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@lamare: I think you're on the right track with the magnets. The original patent leading up to the CSET (1861621) specifies using an atmosphere of hydrogen or alcohol to quench the arc. So this is important.

@Beshires1: Don't forget that the power in a capacitor is related to the square of the voltage. At 100 Volts, you'd only need a 1 Farad cap to store the energy of the little battery, and so on.

This is one of the factors which make a higher operating voltage important. Another factor is that the magnetic field from a coil expands faster with a higher voltage, when the amps are the same. (The number of amp-turns determines the field strength, at any voltage.)
I see ya still do not get it. Lets try again.
Quote:
A 1-farad capacitor would typically be pretty big. It might be as big as a can of tuna or a 1-liter soda bottle, depending on the voltage it can handle. For this reason, capacitors are typically measured in microfarads (millionths of a farad).
I think Aaron's little cap will hold 2 millionth of 1 Farad.


* A standard alkaline AA battery holds about 2.8 amp-hours.
* That means that a AA battery can produce 2.8 amps for an hour at 1.5 volts (about 4.2 watt-hours -- a AA battery can light a 4-watt bulb for a little more than an hour).
* Let's call it 1 volt to make the math easier. To store one AA battery's energy in a capacitor, you would need 3,600 * 2.8 = 10,080 farads to hold it, because an amp-hour is 3,600 amp-seconds

If 1 one farad cap is as large as a 1 litter soda bottle.Then imagine a cap that 10,080 farads. Or 10,080 times larger than a soda bottle.

Altho Aarons cap has a positive charge potiential of 4000V 2 millionth of a farad doesn't have any humph. Or you can say the cap stores 2 millionth of a amp. He should wind himself a 10 lb set of coils and discharge that cap into it to see all the stored energy released at once. I have proven that 60 V discharged from a cap will repel (jump) a 4 lb. magnet 6 inches.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:59 AM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
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Soda Bottle CSET

My new CSET is built inside a two liter pop bottle, with grids which are galvanized steel, with a central 1/4" threaded rod of the same material. I'm using a spark plug for the input electrode, since it has a built in slug of carbon. There's also a hard drive magnet stuck to the plug, insulated with a few layers of shipping tape. This is a powerful magnet, and it has an extreme effect on the spark. Each grid has a separate wire coming out, on opposite ends.

I'm going to test this Tube with different circuits. For instance, with the inner grid connected to the input electrode and the outer grid connected, through the load, to the output electrode. (Similar to Pat. #1861621) Then I'll modify it and move the spark gap inside the grids, and test it again.
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File Type: jpg PHOT0034.JPG (14.3 KB, 52 views)
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Old 01-29-2009, 01:45 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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gray tube comments

A 4000v/2uf cap might not have much umph with a regular discharge but understand that all the difference is made in the world by speed of discharge AND the whole cap doesn't even need to discharge...You're using the voltage potential in a moment in time...when it slaps into the diode on the LV side, it causes virtually instantaneous discharge that has completely different effects from just shorting it into a coil for example.

A regular capactive discharge ignition has just a slighly bigger spark than a regular ignition discharge by 12v. But, when you add the diode, the burst is about 100 times bigger or more than CDI...no extra power went into the system...it is just causing the CDI's capacitor to discharge fast.

The typical math no longer covers what is really happening at this point.

I can repel coils with capacitors too but this isn't the same thing Gray was doing...the Gray tube works by sending two HV potentials into each other before moving to a low potential + tied to a common ground. I used to think it was one HV potential. That is identical to what is happening in the water sparkplug thread as I originally said from the beginning of the water sparkplug circuit projects...I'll post the schematics and video soon that makes it all so obvious.

Also, it is possible to get what you want from the capacitors in a quick enough burst that the capacitor doesn't even drain at all...that is the point of using the potential...strong electrostatic potential differences can cause work without expending work.

For example, a Tay Hee Han cell, super high electrostatic potential capacitor with water between...just rips the water apart and there isn't any real current flowing and nothing has to leave the capacitor to do it.

That HV tension can cause work without expending anything. At high enough speeds, and time will tell, there is probably almost nothing leaving the BIG capacitors with each pulse.

Either way, the Imhotep circuit is a radiant charger that can charge caps radiantly. So are the Bedini circuts and many others. Gray used an ignition coil run by an oscillator...that is what charged the caps.
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Old 01-29-2009, 02:36 AM
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nice tube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrotek View Post
My new CSET is built inside a two liter pop bottle, with grids which are galvanized steel, with a central 1/4" threaded rod of the same material. I'm using a spark plug for the input electrode, since it has a built in slug of carbon. There's also a hard drive magnet stuck to the plug, insulated with a few layers of shipping tape. This is a powerful magnet, and it has an extreme effect on the spark. Each grid has a separate wire coming out, on opposite ends.

I'm going to test this Tube with different circuits. For instance, with the inner grid connected to the input electrode and the outer grid connected, through the load, to the output electrode. (Similar to Pat. #1861621) Then I'll modify it and move the spark gap inside the grids, and test it again.
Very nice looking tube!
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Old 01-29-2009, 02:43 AM
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Thumbs up How the Gray Tube Works

Here is my current understanding of how the Gray tube works.
YouTube - Here's how the Gray Tube works

My tube's gap from rods to grids is almost 1 cm. It should be close enough so that voltage in C2 can jump it when S1 is closed instead of having to piggyback a HV spark leaving HV rod to Grids. I might add a 3rd inner grid to close that space up.

I can't get it to work with a 4000v/2uf cap on the HV rod at all with my slow charger. It really needs to be high speed.

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Old 01-29-2009, 03:57 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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Here is a real event. You don't see flashing lights from the tube until the event happens.Then you see the tube flash, and the coil jump. I'm doing basically what the Grey schematic shows.
Ed Grey Tube First Radiant Event

In case you didn't see everything here is a picture of the "event"
http://sites.google.com/site/chasing...nt%20Event.jpg
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Old 01-29-2009, 04:07 AM
Beshires1 Beshires1 is offline
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I really can't explain what is happening. It takes a while to trigger the first one then after the first it triggers easier and more intense. And like I said the one leg of the capacitor isn't connected but has to be close to trigger the effect.
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