A very interesting thread indeed.
I have probably missed it, its probably here somewhere in the thread,
but the interesting question is:

Who benefits from creating a global warming movement?

/Hob

Watch near the end of the video "the obama deception" a film online from prisonplanet.tv available a googlevideos... if they haven't squashed it yet...



and you will learn just how much of your little life is controlled by the banking elite.. it is in THEIR best interest to TAX us... and the basis of these taxes? to prevent us from driving too much, from using plastic bags at the grocery store, from using biodeisel made at home... on and on it goes... hundreds of new personal and corporate taxes designed to "curb" greenhouse gas production... or so they say... when the real intention is to shift the wealth away from common citizens and LOWER the standard of living... suppression of the right to become wealthy... ever hear about people trying to LIMIT how much money an individual can earn?

its along those lines... i haven't quite figured out how the extra tax revenue makes it into the hands of the Bilderberg group or the Trilateral commission just yet, but if we search i think we will discover some pork in those new laws for these special interests... hidden inside of other unrelated legislation where people usually never look!

thats the old shell game folks, and were the dupes who keep giving them the money!

PS:
and who the %^&$ is stupid enough to give Barry Soetoro a Nobel peace prize... boy these liberal idiots really love this puppet! more charades folks... designed to keep the sheeple ignorant of what is really going on behind the scenes

TRON,

This thread is about CLIMATE SCIENCE. Please start a different thread if you wish to discuss the POLITICAL or RELIGIOUS implications of these issues. Thank you.

Peter

Dear Bits

YES. It was 22F (-5C) last night, here in Spokane Washington. No precipitation, but a record cold temperature for this date. Tonight is due to be colder. My brother, who lives in Fort Collins, Colorado, reported SNOW last night, as well. It looks like a wide area of the country is about to get an early taste of Winter.

Peter

If I narrow my question it might still fit within this thread:
Who benefits economically from creating a global warming movement?

And i might add that we got snow here two weeks ago, and its still on the ground.
The first snow that doesn't go away within a day or two usually arrives precisely (no kidding) at halloween.

/Hob

2 days ago in cherrybrook in north sydney, australia, it hailed slushy snow. For half an hour, that's all.

BUT

It's SPRING!

Wtf?!

HOT as a rattles snakes Tennis shoes here tho


Every capital city in Australia exceeded its average maximum temperature for August in 2009 with Brisbane recording its warmest August maximum temperature since records began. Sydney recorded its 2nd warmest August since records began in 1859. According to the Bureau of Meteorology it was the warmest August on record for Australia

Climate Change Research Centre (CCRC) - University of New South Wales - Australia

I am up here in Brisbane guys, its hot.

Following this good learn full.

According some Uni's I have spoken and "WIKI" it seems that:

90% of all the Total Global Ice is at the South-Pole located.

The plateau seems more than a 2000 mtr above the ocean around it, with a highest point from more than 4500 mtr above the water.

Summer temp.: -20C
Winter temp.: -70C

Something is going on, only that all that ice is melting in only a few years seems very OD!

Regards, Johan

Some places are no doubt COLDER then normal.
but MOST places seem to be HOT sadly.

It certainly seems that way, i know its never been as hot down here. Maybe if its cold some where it has to be hot some where else also. I am not sure, i do hope its balancing out tho.

Ash

Hi Ash;

Hmmmm? Must be one of them "down under" oddities, ours just wear sun glasses.

Meanwhile, hear in central Florida in the good ole' U.S.A. we have been setting heat records or tying old ones for the last 10 days ( temps. of 90F to 96F, heat index 103F to 115F), while Peter is freezing in Spokane.

It certainly appears climate change at the very least is underway.

Al

Hi Al, or i could say hot as a rattle snakes BUTT We have some very strange creatures in Oz, but no rattle snakes i assume they would have a hot butt and tennis shoes on the desert

Yeah climate change alright my friend, but still the science of warming is suspect like Peter has shown. The heat is worse then the cold huh? maybe the heat some where effects the cold elsewhere, i dont know, one thing i do know is that their science is still bunk.

Ash

Hi Folks,

For those interested in DATA concerning the origins of the "Global Warming" idea and its ultimate goal, I highly recommend looking at this new page at PESwiki, put together by Leslie Pastor.

Site:LRP:Climate Change Myth & The Agenda To Remove The Sovereignty of the United States - PESWiki

Enjoy,

Peter

YouTube - WARNING! Goodbye U.S Sovereignty... Hello One World Government !

In October 14th 2009, Lord Christopher Monckton, a noted climate change expert, gave a presentation at Bethel College in St. Paul, MN in which he issued a dire warning regarding the United Nations Climate Change Treaty which is scheduled to be signed in Copenhagen in December 2009.

This is the climate expert (Lord Christopher Monckton) that was NOT allowed to testify on Capitol Hill BEFORE the Cap and Trade bill was passed in the House. They allowed Newt Gingrich to speak and Gore --- but this individual was cut the very day he was to speak ----because he knows the Climate Issue is a perpetrated fraud for profits.


(Lord Monckton had come from England to testify, was outside the door and not allowed in. The government had decided what they wanted to hear and did not wish to be confused by FACTS.

Thanks Ash, I posted a new thread on that too.

Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty, Claims British Lord

Everyone, whether or not you believe in global warming is irrelevant to the fact that if this Copenhagen Treaty is signed by Obama, it will be one of the greatest steps towards a very dark world.

A global environmental crisis blamed on people as a reason to install a one world communist government was planned and organized before I was ever born. There are no surprises here.

One of the very small amount of things that "president" bush did right was that we never ratified the Kyoto treaty...it would have hurt us worse than $10/gallon gas. Almost difficult to admit he did anything right but that was one of them.

I'm 100% for reducing pollution. If it gets hot...at least I want to breathe clean air and drink clean water. If it turns into an ice age, then I still want to breathe clean air and drink clean water.

It was strongly predicted across the board that the next president...no matter who it is...would try to put us into "compliance."

Please call and write and email all your state representatives asap and shoot down this Copenhagen Treaty now!

The last several presidents have moved swiftly to pass control of the United States to foreign entities. The WHO is supposed to have power and jurisdiction over the US in a pandemic emergency...now Obama is trying to give environmental jurisdiction of the US to a foreign entity. It never ends!

Again, if you're American, put your differences aside...it is irrelevant if global warming is real or not. Being complacent and allowing Obama to sell us out is WRONG. Please call your reps now!

If you're not American, encourage your American friends to get active.

Thanks for posting Aaron will do my bit, yup they have been trying to get the NWO for years even before you and i were born. Been researching it for years.

FROG IN THE POT here. This is why we need to work together for self sufficient communities and OPEN SOURCE FREE ENERGY. Updating now.

Ash

New Scientific Study Could Destroy Global Warming Theory



A newly released scientific study published by MIT climate scientist Richard Lindzen has the potential of destroying one of the fundamental underpinnings of global warming theorists. The study collected 15-years of long wave radiation measurements from a satellite orbiting the earth.

The study correlates the change in the earth’s surface temperature with the change in outgoing long wave radiation. Lindzen’s study shows that as the earth warms, the amount of radiation being bounced-back into outer space actually increases. This is exactly the opposite result that is assumed to occur in the UN climate models.

The UN models predict that more radiation is trapped in the earth’s atmosphere as the temperature rises. Lindzen’s findings blow a hole a mile-wide in the arguments used by global warming evangelists.

World News

Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away

By Greg Roberts
The Australian
April 18, 2009 11:52am


Cool down ... ice is expanding in much of the Antarctic, experts say / Reuters

• Ice expanding in much of Antarctica
• Eastern coast getting colder
• Western section remains a concern

ICE is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap.

The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent's western coast.

Antarctica has 90 per cent of the Earth's ice and 80 per cent of its fresh water, The Australian reports. Extensive melting of Antarctic ice sheets would be required to raise sea levels substantially, and ice is melting in parts of west Antarctica. The destabilisation of the Wilkins ice shelf generated international headlines this month.

However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.
"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said.

The melting of sea ice - fast ice and pack ice - does not cause sea levels to rise because the ice is in the water. Sea levels may rise with losses from freshwater ice sheets on the polar caps. In Antarctica, these losses are in the form of icebergs calved from ice shelves formed by glacial movements on the mainland.

Last week, federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said experts predicted sea level rises of up to 6m from Antarctic melting by 2100, but the worst case scenario foreshadowed by the SCAR report was a 1.25m rise.

Mr Garrett insisted global warming was causing ice losses throughout Antarctica. "I don't think there's any doubt it is contributing to what we've seen both on the Wilkins shelf and more generally in Antarctica," he said.
Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. "The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west," he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual.

"Ice shelves in general have episodic carvings and there can be large icebergs breaking off - I'm talking 100km or 200km long - every 10 or 20 or 50 years."

Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m.

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded.

Pacific Northwest Snow Pack - the True Story
By George Taylor
__________________  google_protectAndRun("ads_core.google_render_ad", google_handleError, google_render_ad);
23 Jul 09 (Excerpts) “Washington Governor Gregoire recently sent a letter to the Washington House delegation in which she stated that the snow pack has declined 20% over the past 30 years.




Actual snow pack numbers show a 22% INCREASE in snow pack over the past 33 years across the Washington and Oregon Cascade Mountains:
“Arguing this point made George Taylor, state climatologist for decades in Oregon a target (he took early retirement) and cost the assistant state climatologist in Washington, Mark Albright, his job.


“Climate frauds like Mann, Mote and Steig and agenda-driven politicians like Gregoire have a lot to answer for, if the governments measures inflict major pain on the citizens and the globe continues to cool in its natural rythym.

Glaciers Growing in Western Himalayas

24 May 09 – In a defiant act of political incorrectness, 230 glaciers in the western Himalayas - including Mount Everest, K2 and Nanga Parbat - are actually growing.




"These are the biggest mid-latitude glaciers in the world," John Shroder of the University of Nebraska-Omaha said. "And all of them are either holding still, or advancing."


Not only are the glaciers advancing, 87 of the glaciers have surged forward since the 1960s, says a recent article in Discovery News.



“An analysis of gravity signatures in the region also suggests the glaciers are growing in mass, and have been since at least 1980,” the article continues. The increasing glacier mass has lead to an increase in discharge for the mighty Indus River.


The article then blathers on about the woes of global warming.

See entire article:
Himalayan Glaciers Seem to Be Growing: Discovery News

Climate Chains

An epic debate is underway in the U.S.. Proposed climate legislation would have a far-reaching impact on the standard of living and give government a portal into every aspect of people’s lives. The affordable, dependable and abundant energy upon which any great civilization is built is about to be rationed. Because of the atmosphere of national and global panic, facts and the possible disastrous effects get overlooked in the irrational rush to pass climate legislation. Climate Chains is an effort to petition a reasoned and rational approach to the climate change policy debate. Watchers are invited to challenge their world view on the climate policies now being formulated in the U.S. and other countries.


204MB 22 min 2009 Cascade Policy Institute.
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Hi Folks,

Here is a new article on the BBC News service about Carbon Trading. Its worth reading.

BBC NEWS | Business | Carbon market clouded by uncertainty

Enjoy,

Peter

@everybody

Hey I've an idea, what if we get solar eclipses photos of over last 20 years and we put them in diapositive transition comparing the corona, and we try to get a relation with earth's temp levels.

I'm a big fan of the space program.

There are lots of solutions here about using less power, reducing
our carbon footprint, reduce population, eat alfalfa sprouts and
chlorella ...

Geez... lets get out of here and go where no man has gone before.
This planet is toast!!!!

I think we should crank up the industrial complex even higher --
along the lines of what Colbert is proposing -- so that things
are so bad on this planet ... that we just have to move!!!

That will stimulate the economy big time as we work towards
being a space fairing race and get off this rock.
Everyone knows the space program was the ONLY
government works program that turned a profit due
to HUGE spin-offs in technology and material science.

Honestly ... wouldn't you rather be fighting aliens and trying
to take their technologies and putting them on little
planetary reservation ... than sitting around hear melting
and struggling for breath on a planet doomed to fail
as the population spirals out of control??
Lets face it ...humanoids are parasites who
consume all ... and move on ... like space fairing
locusts.

Where are the mad scientists when you need them???
I'm only half joking...

Please Folks,

Climate Change and related issues are a serious topic, and deserve people's undistracted consideration.

If you wish to post OFF-TOPIC comments, or any other Buffalo Pancakes, please do it elsewhere.

Thanks,
Peter

The Essex County Conservative Examiner has an interesting article about the global warming swindle and data manipulation in practice:

Hadley CRU hacked with release of hundreds of docs and emails


" Some of the most embarrassing e-mails are attributed to Philip Jones, the Director of the CRU; Keith Briffa, his assistant; Michael E. Mann of the University of Virginia; Malcolm Hughes at the University of Arizona; and others. One such e-mail makes references to the famous “hockey-stick” graph published by Mann in the journal Nature:

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. Mike’s series got the annual land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999 for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998 …

Mr. Mosher offered this summary of the rest of the e-mails that he had found:

And, you get to see somebody with the name of Phil Jones say that he would rather destroy the CRU data than release it to McIntyre. And lots lots more, including how to obstruct or evade FOIA requests. and guess who funded the collection of cores at Yamal … and transferred money into a personal account in Russia [.] And you get to see what they really say behind the curtain. You get to see how they “shape” the news, how they struggled between telling the truth and making policy makers happy. [Y]ou get to see what they say about Idso and Pat Michaels, you get to read how they want to take us out into a dark alley, it’s stunning all very stunning. You get to watch somebody named Phil Jones say that John Daly’s [een brilliant klimaatscepticus van het eerste uur] death is good news … or words to that effect. I don’t know that it’s real… But the CRU code looks real."

Also see:
Climate Depot



Breaking News Story: CRU has apparently been hacked – hundreds of files released « Watts Up With That?

"An unknown person put postings on some climate skeptic websites that advertised an FTP file on a Russian FTP server, here is the message that was placed on the Air Vent today:

We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to
be kept under wraps.

We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code, and documents

The file was large, about 61 megabytes, containing hundreds of files.

It contained data, code, and emails from Phil Jones at CRU to and from many people.

I’ve seen the file, it appears to be genuine and from CRU. Others who have seen it concur- it appears genuine. There are so many files it appears unlikely that it is a hoax. The effort would be too great."


Hadley hacked: warmist conspiracy exposed? | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog

"8.15 PM UPDATE: The Hadley CRU director admits the emails seem to be genuine:


The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight ..."It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails."…

TGIF asked Jones about the controversial email discussing “hiding the decline”, and Jones explained what he was trying to say….

So the 1079 emails and 72 documents seem indeed evidence of a scandal involving most of the most prominent scientists pushing the man-made warming theory - a scandal that is one of the greatest in modern science. I’ve been adding some of the most astonishing in updates below - emails suggesting conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more. If it is as it now seems, never again will “peer review” be used to shout down sceptics. "

Lamare,

Thank you for that last post! If this information holds up, I'd say you've found the "smoking gun" of the Global Warming Hoax.

Let's see what happens next.

Peter

Well, I haven't found anything really, just happened to run across this news on some (Dutch) "alternative" news site.

Anyway, it looks like this is going in the right direction and is even beginning to appear at the main stream media:

The Guardian:
Climate sceptics claim leaked emails are evidence of collusion among scientists | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Nature (!):
Leading British climate centre hacked : Nature News

New Scientist:
Hacker breaks into climate change research institution - Short Sharp Science - New Scientist

The Register, not too big, but not unimportant in computer science world:
Wrecking CRU: hackers cause massive climate data breach • The Register

And, last but certainly not least...... The BBC:
BBC News - Hackers target leading climate research unit
"A university spokesman confirmed the email system had been hacked and that information was taken and published without permission."



The files themselves can be found at the Pirate Bay:
Hadley CRU Files (FOI2009.zip) (download torrent) - TPB)

I've downloaded the whole bunch, and really, the second pdf I opened already blew my mind.

The rules of the game:

"climate change; the rules will help us win it.

These principles were created as part of the UK Climate Change Communications Strategy, an evidence-based strategy aiming to change public attitudes towards climate change in the UK. This is a ‘short version’
of a far longer document of evidence that can be found at Defra - Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

There is plenty of evidence relating to attitudes towards and behaviour on climate change, general environmental behaviour change and the whole issue
of sustainable development communication. As we reviewed the research for these principles, one ‘überprinciple’ emerged:

“Changing attitudes towards climate change is not like selling a particular brand of soap – it’s like convincing someone to use soap in the first place.”

They refer to defra.gov.uk. Nice documents over there, too:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/evidence/soc...06-scoping.pdf
"This scoping report marks the end of the first phase in developing and implementing a new approach to pro-environmental behaviours and influencing behaviours. We have followed social marketing good practice in establishing a baseline for our work, involving stakeholders, reviewing Defra’s own performance, drawing up initial behaviour goals and working up some further “propositions” (linking population segmentation, to behaviours, to a range of possible interventions) for pre-testing and development. The scope of work has ranged beyond behaviours which impact directly on carbon emissions to those which impact indirectly (e.g. consumption of goods) or which are important for other environmental reasons (e.g. certified and assured food). Furthermore, it has considered a wide range of existing and potential interventions taking an integrated approach to policy and communications."

Similar pdfs can be found at:
http://www.futerra.co.uk/downloads/NewRules:NewGame.pdf
http://www.stuffit.org/carbon/pdf-re...softhegame.pdf


Add: found the pdf on the net too:
http://www.futerra.co.uk/downloads/RulesOfTheGame.pdf

Oh my...

When can we take to the streets for this?

Can mainstream media ignore this?

I downloaded the file and went through a bunch of documents.

There are 2 major things that points to this having more than
50% probability of being real, in my opinion.

1. The head honcho at their department admitted their email server was
broken into and email was stolen and published without permission. He said
it appears to be genuine (what is posted online).

2. If you go randomly through all the documents and look at the properties,
they are all dated back almost 10 years ago with all corresponding dates
that match the time when they were supposed to take place.
Yes, it is possible to manipulate that data in a document.

BUT, if this is a hoax, it is probably a record breaker. lol I cannot see one
individual orchestrating that himself even over a long time, possible, but
it would have to be like a serious intelligence unit to pull together such
detail.

I only glanced over a bunch of the mail randomly so I certainly don't
know the whole thread of them but if even 1 or 2 of those email are true,
it is profoundly incredible.