If oil is greater than the O2 to burn it than were in a different relm.

Maybe the reason for the BS fossil explanation is to make it finite
when in reality maybe there is enough hydrocarbons soaked into
this planet to burn our breathable O2 content of the truly finite
atmosphere several times over.

A third flip side:
1. iceage approach.
2. we bake in an oven.
3. we suffocate. oxidizer.

4. all is normal minus the hysteria. To much TV.
(my grandma used to say that, #4)
5. the sun drives the weather.
6. the airforce said they would own it by 2025 and had a OOPS(s).

Feel free to add to the possibility's

Carbon credit biz as a start up? Wonder if I would sleep well after?

Dave

Dave the evidence WE (energetic forum and others)have collected

Evidence of Concern

show -its about
manipulation for p[profit

Ash

Yes Ash, I totally agree,

Maybe if they had fabricated fake huge machines NEEDED
to process the air back to normal it would have been more
believable con, but many have seen through this crap and
now far more are going to PAY for it @$# guilt or not. $

Dave

Hi Guys here is another from the guy who founded the weather channel
YouTube - John Coleman slams global warming (1 of 4)

Ash

Terracycles - are we going to help our kids control climate? I know we should.

Hi Guys,

Here is a new article, published on the BBC. Seems like the "pro-climate change" folks are having a bit of an internal spat!

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | 'Time to ditch climate policies'

Enjoy.

Also, thanks Ash for linking to the John Coleman films. He is certainly one of the more knowledgeable voices in this "climate change" discussion.

Peter

The campaign to politicize GW has worked very well... As long as it is equated to the other "Red vs Blue" issues, nothing will ever be done about it.

Mission Accomplished

... And so "COINCIDENTALLY", nothing need be done about the USE OF COAL AND OIL as fuels, either!! What an amazing coincidence, eh? lol. Wow, who would have ever have thought it would work out so nicely for the energy cartels? Kismet.

If this is not the case, then why...

> Use Al Gore as the main figurehead and spokesman, when half the US was already against him from the 2000 elections? Lol what tactic could possibly have been more effective into turning an issue that has nothing at all to do with politics, into one that is highly political and extremely polarizing?

> Push carbon taxing as the main visible means of "combating" it... Which of course doesn't combat anything, just gives corps a way around having to actually change via new a set of dodges, and pisses off all the peeps who are "anti-tax" simply on principal (which is a large segment of the pop).

> Advertise useless home energy saving techniques like unplugging "wall warts" that are completely ineffective on a grand scale, yet give the impression of "doing something positive". Don't get me wrong, personal energy saving is very worthy in itself (and will certainly be required anyway if one wants to free themselves from the grid). But when saving "15 watts" is considered "having a good day"; while wasting 15,000 watts of energy in your vehicle on the drive to work.... Is just insane.

Earth's 'Fever' Breaks! Global temperatures 'have plunged .74°F since Gore released An Inconvenient Truth'

Earth's 'Fever' Breaks! Global temperatures 'have plunged .74°F since Gore released An Inconvenient Truth' | Climate Depot

Sen. Inhofe On Global Warming: 'This Thing Is Phony'
YouTube - Sen. Inhofe On Global Warming: 'This Thing Is Phony'

Ash,

Thanks for adding the link to this interview. The stupidity of declaring Carbon Dioxide a "pollutant" has got to be exposed. I was glad to hear Sen. Inhofe say the next climate bill is "dead on arrival" on the floor of the US Senate. I hope its true. With moderate temperatures prevailing for the 9th year in a row, sound science may finally be able to prove that CO2 is not causing the planet to warm up!

Peter

Hi Peter, I am archiving all this info that you/every one got together in this thread on the Panacea site so every one can read it permanently and sign some things to create public pressure.

Gore is getting questioned even in my country of Australia, a member of my government has asked to meet him to present counter info on his Global warming propaganda, Al has actually agreed to meet him ,but dot expect any thing to come of it

BTW here is a good site with news on Al gore's propaganda
I Hate Al Gore

What ever happened to the hundreds or thousands of scientists that are suing al gore for fraud?

The statistics in his powerpoint were misrepresented. The heat happened FIRST and then 800 years (to my recollection) LATER, the CO2 increased.

He manipulated it so it looked like the CO2 production correlated with the increase in temperature during the same time frame but it was NOT.

Anyway, many of the glaciers that are "melting" are gaining snow and the "warming" is causing more moisture that is moving towards colder climates making it snow more. I know there is more more snow happening because this past winter I snow-blowed and shoveled more snow on the ground and on my roof in this past winter than I have seen here in the past 10 years combined it seems.

The experience that I am having with the weather points to Hamaker's theories being right. Not so sure about the co2 total connection but definitely about moving into a cooling trend.

Aaron
Here is the info i have on that
YouTube - Al Gore sued by over 30.000 Scientists for Global Warming fraud / John Coleman

Forget Al Gore, he was always an idiot, and the main reason why I could never vote for him. If you studied statistics in school you would know that you need to take a larger sample of time, in fact even 100 years is even a small period of time to sample. Most of your theory falls apart if you apply REAL Scientific statistical data into the study over more than one year. Criminy, one year, you base your whole theory on one or two years record?

If you add to the equation that I see no person or company profiting from this "swindle" even close to what the oil companies are sucking out of your pocket in fuel costs. Rather people are trying to show you that something is happening with climate. To prove this you simple go to recorded weather for the past 100 years and you will see the last decade was hotter than it's ever been in recorded and in fact the result of the industrial age was hotter weather. It is undeniable statistical scientific fact.

So my questions to you are:

1. Is efficiency through better products, insulation, energy efficient appliances, better fuel mileage, etc a bad thing? Enough to condemn
people for trying to be less of a burden on the planet?

2. Is there any company making billions of dollars from this "swindle" similar to the oil companies that have been bending us over for the past 100 years?

3. Are you guys here to promote the use of fossil fuels until there is no longer any hydrocarbon left in the ground? It almost sounds as though most of you are funded by the oil companies themselves.

I have the utmost respect for you guys, especially Peter, but damn, this is some weird stuff you guys have going on here.

Dear UncleFester,

This thread is not about who may be profiting from the "climate change" issue, or a policy of "doing nothing". It is about SCIENCE. If you look at the ad for Save on Home Energy on the main thread page, you can see that Aaron and I are very much in support of "efficiency through better products, insulation, energy efficient appliances, and better fuel mileage", as you say. We are also not "condemning anyone for wanting to be less of a burden on the planet." In fact, we promote those ideas and help others implement them for saving energy and money!

What we are trying to explore in this thread is the possibility that "climate change" is primarily a natural cycle, and that the idea that CO2 is a primary driver of this process is based on lousy science.

I believe that burning "prehistoric carbon" as a way to power this society is economically unsustainable, environmentally polluting, and scientifically unnecessary. But I do not believe it is contributing in any significant way to the changes in the weather or the climate that we are observing. The "Industrial Revolution" just happened to begin at approximately the same time as the northern hemisphere was emerging from "The Little Ice Age". But we have not even returned to the temperatures that existed before that, during what was called "The Medieval Warm Period" around 1000 years ago.

If you watch the film linked at the beginning of this thread, and read the whole thread, I think much of this material has been covered before.

Sorry for the confusion.

Peter

Well at least I'm glad that I was wrong in thinking that the thread was a pro big oil agenda. I am all for truth, but I do worry that if it was shown that we were doing nothing to the environment at all, it would make people even more lazy than they are regarding conservation of resources. There is scientific data that supports both sides considering we have had such a small amount of time to study the issue, but time will tell as to what nature is going to give us weather wise.

Who is Alan Carlin
Senior Operations Research Analyst, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency,
Washington, DC, 1974 to present. See more about his Employment,
Education and Publications at his web site.
Hey, if you can't trust the government .. who can you trust
Trust Alan

Pretty amazing graphs shown in this video:
Alan Carlin on CO2 and Temperatures

For those who wish to read the unpublished report prepared for the US
Environmental Protection Agency but not representing the Agency's views,
final version dated March 16, 2009 by Alan Carlin
Alan Carlin: Politics and Science at the EPA - Right Mind
See figure 2-5 Global Surface Temperature Anomaly and CO2 Levels, 1940-1970
See figure 2-6 Global Temperature Anomalies and CO2, 2002-2008

Alan Carlin web site

Yes, i think this thread is a pro big oil agenda.

Many oil giants such as Shell, Chevron and Exxon are now funding the global warming deniers like these people on their compaign to promote their "green" image in many countries. They want the public to focus on CO2 and Al Gore only. They will not mention anything about methane bubbling from the arctic ocean.

It is wasting of time to participate discussion in this thread. These individuals will post tons of materials from the mainstream media only, and they will not accept any materials from the scientific community.

Regardless, ron paul is very protective of the big oil industry. The worshippers of ron paul would not say anything against mr paul or his philosophy.

Oil giants are not the only participants in this GW-bashing campaign.

In fact, the wall street is now chanting "green energy bubble".

I believe, as a part of their "green" campaign, they will likely continue to provide some sort of support to activities related to open-sourcing the alternative energy technologies.

Right now, open-sourcing the AE technologies is one of the ways to deflate (or even control) the green energy sector without going through the stock market.

Once the AE or any forms of pollution becomes tradable like commodities or stocks, the wall street and oil gaints will be able to reap profit out of their campaign without hurting their oil businesses.

Peter's and Aaron great book which i have and is great BTW is defiantly a way to avoid the CARBON TAX SCAM that is global warming. I think a major life line will be the GEET when its back up and running as the carbon is eliminated there. The mining industry will be it they will be hit as one of th hardest.

Poor climate science, FRAUD being used for taxing the community is not going to stand up to Save on home energy and SUPPRESSED energy technology

Global Warming or Global Governance?

Global Warming or Global Governance

Interviews of climate scientists and biologists from numerous sources who explain, step by step, why Al Gore and the global warming alarmists are incorrect. In some cases, blatantly so. It also provides evidence that the global warming agenda is being funded with tens of billions of dollars as a mechanism to create global governance. Hear from congressmen, experts and even well-known news broadcasters how global governance puts global institutions that are not accountable to the American people in control of every aspect of our economy. The U.S. government is very close to making this a reality. Very close. Every American, every citizen of the world, needs to hear the other side of the global warming story. Global Warming video news : Newstree: search results

I read about it on other forums, but to see it for myself.

People, somethings not right.

This change is months early here in Michigan.

Dave,

Can you post a picture so we can see what you are talking about? Sometimes leaves change because the tree is affected by insects or drought, but usually it takes nights dropping to low temperatures.

Please tell us more!

Peter

Peter, group,

When I told my wife about it this evening she said she had noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and that it was getting worse. Ill get a shot of it tomorrow and maybe go for a drive. Look for an area where I can get a landscape shot. It feels like fall and its just starting to look like it too. If its just one type of tree I will get a good close up of a leaf.. The water table is still about 10feet down here and my pond has only lost a foot or two from the melt. So trees have water even tho its real dry on top here. We just broke 25 inches rain since Jan.

Low temps, have been in the 40s many nights this summer (11 since 7-4-9). Only a few nights lows were above 59f in the same period. If the change is widespread its because of the low temps. Its been excellent for the practice of diurnal cooling. (soon as outside is cooler than inside open windows and fan in cold air) Little need for the central ac unit this year. If that's not in your book add it.


Hot Air » Blog Archive » Commerce Secretary: America needs to pay for China’s emissions

I guess it will take more brainwashing to make them *believe* they should pay for cow farts. Tho,, were guilty of buying their stuff and and should be eco-guilty for them.

A gloomy day overcast 65f. I also saw a partial V formation of water foul, headed SW. I snapped a couple shots of them to. My wife was right its worse than I had seen. We were moving about 60mph. I have more, many more its like that all the way from the farm into town. We are in the middle of the hand or mitten.

Attached Images

julycolors.jpg (46.0 KB, 17 views)

Dave,

Here is a link to a weather site showing a Satellite Loop over the USA. It shows Upper Michigan is in an area above a low dipping Jet-Stream and a circulation drawing cooler air in from Canada. This could explain your cool nights. Weather forecasters have been discussing this low dipping Jet-Stream for over a month, as it has caused some of the severe weather systems in the South-East, as well.

Intellicast - Infrared Satellite Loop in United States

Here in Spokane Washington, we are having a pretty normal summer, with temperatures running a little above normal, but no where near record highs. Precipitation for the year is within the normal range.

The low dipping Jet-Stream is definitely out of the ordinary, and the exact causes are not known to me, but in and of itself, it represents a "regional" event that deserves watching. I guess you should just enjoy the low AC costs this summer.

Peter

If I made a summary of what big oil company do:
- suppressing viable alternative energy source
- suppressing viable energy efficiency improvement
- endorsing more inefficient car

The question now rise for what purposes big oil push global warming propaganda? is it to:
- reduce production capacity of china or developing country, to meet country CO2 emission limit which is not applied for america.
- reduce vehicle in oil producing country, maybe to increase oil price or profit?


Anyone can suggest why?


About weather, two days before BMG (Official weather forecast in Indonesia) give prediction that there will be very long drought because of El-Nino. But after a rain hit Jakarta yesterday everyone blame on global warming for change of weather. I guess weather still remain unpredictable even by people with high technology, satellite, etc. I guess everyone need scape goat, and global warming is the best candidate, no matter if it's just lies.

Peter,

Not quite sure what is funny to you? BUT the other night we were 8f from a frost! That means crop failure at this time of year. In a Large widespread way.

Dave

Dave,

I realize that extreme weather can, quite often, have very large, undesirable, economic consequences. I'm not trying to make fun of that. The words "weather" and "pattern" seem to be less and less associated with each other, and this is true, regardless of the real causes. I am very concerned about this, and have been for decades.

The true "warm front", responsible for long, gentle, soaking rains, disappeared in the late 1970's. The first completely "white sky" was reported by Trevor Constable over Oahu in the 1980's, in the magazine Borderlands. None of these things has anything to do with "changes in climate".

The fact is, most people alive today have never even seen the weather behave normally, since much of the normal behavior stopped over 35 years ago. And even then, "normal" had a rather wide variation.

A case in point: when I was part of a group that broke the drought in Santa Barbara County in 1991, we did extensive research into past conditions. The "average rain fall" for the area was about 16 inches a year, but the extremes included years of "2 inches" and years of "35 inches". In that sense, the drought we were breaking was well within the "normal spread" of weather for the area. It was the increase in population and the rise in the need for water that made intervention necessary.

The point is, I'm relatively sure your area of the country has had other "cool summers" during the last 100 years, and that this summer's conditions are within the spread of what is normally possible, even if it is out of the ordinary.

Peter